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MADDIE: COPS AT WAR - Daily Star 18/2/14

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Re: MADDIE: COPS AT WAR - Daily Star 18/2/14

Post by Tony Bennett on 01.03.14 15:49

MarcoG wrote:"Different lines of inquiry", even parallel,
Different: One line going north, one going south

Parallel: Both going south, but never meeting

SY, Grange & PJ: Meeting every other month, but never getting anywhere

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                            "Maddie's Jammies. Where is Maddie?" - Amelie, May 2007 -  "Maddie's Jammies. Where is Maddie?"


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Re: MADDIE: COPS AT WAR - Daily Star 18/2/14

Post by Cristobell on 01.03.14 15:58

@diatribe wrote:
@Cristobell wrote:


''Well the McCanns have now got what they wanted, a Review and an Investigation.''


''I don't think the McCanns have any influence at all, ''  

I think there may be a bit of a contradiction in terms here, Cristobell, in that if the McCanns don't in fact have any influence, particularly political influence, then surely the very last thing they would have wanted was a review and investigation.

Of course it may well be their pleas for a new investigation in their favourite comic strip was a ploy to convince the public of their innocence and an attempt to boost their fund raising campaign. It might be that the last thing they wanted or expected was for Cameroon to call their bluff. Be careful what you wish for-----


Oops, it does look a bit like that lol.

I think the McCanns were in big trouble in the Autumn of 2010 Diatribe, I'm pretty sure it was around the time Amaral's book was allowed back on the shelves. They lost their first big civil action and they were facing the damages libel trial with their shield taken away - GA's book was ruled not libellous, they were doomed. Who knew at that time it would take so long to come to trial and clash, rather embarrassingly, with two live police investigations.

They were desperate to launch a new Fund raising campaign in November 2010, so desperate in fact, that they took the enormous risk of using their pretend search and campaign to re-appear on the breakfast sofas and evening news bulletins. Be in no doubt, it was money they wanted/needed. The Petition was pie in the sky and could have carried on for years with the kerching of the paypal button going on indefinitely. They needed 100,000 signatures. A drop in the ocean compared to the hundreds of thousands of fans they have on FB, but this activity, needed real people and real donations and it could have gone on for years.

I think you are spot on with 'be careful what you wish for'. I doubt the McCanns thought, in this time of austerity, that a tory government would make their particular cause a priority. They were, in effect, victims of their own success.

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Re: MADDIE: COPS AT WAR - Daily Star 18/2/14

Post by jeanmonroe on 01.03.14 15:59

@Tony Bennett wrote:
MarcoG wrote:"Different lines of inquiry", even parallel,
Different: One line going north, one going south

Parallel: Both going south, but never meeting

SY, Grange & PJ: Meeting every other month, but never getting anywhere

Andy at 'meeting' 21.

Andy: "abduction by stranger"?

PJ: "er nope, accidental death by parents, simulation of an abduction and concealment of cadavar"

Andy: "Ok. Same time next month"?

PJ: "Ok C ya"

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Re: MADDIE: COPS AT WAR - Daily Star 18/2/14

Post by Guest on 01.03.14 16:16

@diatribe wrote:
candyfloss wrote:
@marconi wrote:Short ago I post a reply to ayoyo and I can not see it here

Shall I post it again?
No.

I jus' lurve conciseness.

 big grin  Sorry I was on the phone at time, and can't type with one finger. I just don't want any more posts that disrupt, that is why I deleted Marconi's last post, we don't want a repeat of yesterday.

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Re: MADDIE: COPS AT WAR - Daily Star 18/2/14

Post by diatribe on 01.03.14 16:30

candyfloss wrote:
@diatribe wrote:
candyfloss wrote:
@marconi wrote:Short ago I post a reply to ayoyo and I can not see it here

Shall I post it again?
No.

I jus' lurve conciseness.

 big grin  Sorry I was on the phone at time, and can't type with one finger.  
No need to be sorry, I just thought it was funny and oddly enough, I'm one of that rare breed of one fingered typists. That's the reason I have problems when arguing with more than half a dozen combatants at a time big grin

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Re: MADDIE: COPS AT WAR - Daily Star 18/2/14

Post by Guest on 01.03.14 16:38

@Tony Bennett wrote:
MarcoG wrote:"Different lines of inquiry", even parallel,
Different: One line going north, one going south

Parallel: Both going south, but never meeting

SY, Grange & PJ: Meeting every other month, but never getting anywhere
:)
"Various random lines"
 
Though different and parallel don't exclude eachother.

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Re: MADDIE: COPS AT WAR - Daily Star 18/2/14

Post by Guest on 01.03.14 16:55

I may have mentioned this before here, but I'm of the opinion that it's true, but actually used to sow confusion about their collaboration. IMO both forces are each concentrating indeed on one different line of investigation: NSY on a possible fraud [the Fund] in the U.K. and the PJ on the death and "abduction" & hiding of a corpse of a little girl in PT. They have a common interest and help each other with information [e.g. background info on the "suspects"] and investigation details in U.K. and PT. IMO, of course. And IF can be proven that at least the McCanns KNEW that Madeleine was dead, a fund-fraud case could go ahead. That's what PeterMac calls an "Al Capone" ...  yes 

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Re: MADDIE: COPS AT WAR - Daily Star 18/2/14

Post by russiandoll on 01.03.14 17:13

Tony,
         I do not know if you read a post of mine on p.85 of this thread, in response to a rather over the top one to me likening my sincerity to that of  Harriet Harman.

     I made you a pretty fulsome apology for having prematurely been critical of your sarcasm towards Marconi.
     It would appear that you have not read my post, or if you have, you choose not to make a similar apology to me for mentioning me in the same breath as this vile woman. And the context of that was over child abuse and pornography. I find that very offensive.
  I would kindly request that you read it and maybe think , as suggested by Cristobell, of maybe reconsidering that remark of yours.
  While I was upset with your sarcastic tone, I did not make a comparison.
 You chose not to simply state that I had not sounded sincere, you chose to compare me quite unfairly to someone who said she did not need to apologise.

  I do not know what you expected me to say to aiyoyo, other than I was sorry that my criticism of your attitude offended her.
  When I speak my mind, I do not think I am insulting, but I call it like I see it.
  I am very aware of the high esteem in which some people hold you on the forum, as do I, however I do not revere you, I respect you.
  I also respect you enough to think that you can respond to criticism in a way that might be forthright without being unpleasant, that I would have accepted.

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contrived and dishonest — but the myth — persistent, persuasive and
unrealistic.
~John F. Kennedy


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Re: MADDIE: COPS AT WAR - Daily Star 18/2/14

Post by CynicAl on 01.03.14 17:30

I'm well aware of how tempting it is to develop overarching theories of grand conspiracy. They're fun. But also raise too many implausibilities which require leaps of logic to accommodate. We tend to start reading the happenstances backward and weave them into conspiracy. We start to quote KM with the 'one coincidence, two coincidences' rubbish, which simply isn't an attestable rule of systematic investigation and deduction, if for no other reason than it assumes that there are only two variables... That something is coincidence or it cannot be. There are always third options... Namely the confounding principles of greed and ambition. 

In 2007 scores ofnagencies and individuals were seen swarming over the McCann case from the first second. It could be because they had foreknowledge and were covering up. But that makes no sense. If they had foreknowledge and conspirance from outset, the conspiracy would not be riddled with cracks. Instead, the simplest explanation is that all those parties had or developed a vested interest... Saving face... Appearing to be a hero... Getting free high profile publicity for assisting in the case of the year... Newspaper sales... Ghostwriter opportunities... Fame... Money making... Protecting investment... All things you would sign up to if you were swallowing the parents story from the outset... All things you might be duped into continuing in spite of the raised doubts and many questions... All things that would be hard to back away from whenyou realised the party was over... And in some cases, all things which you might bide your time in order to 'spin' your involvement at a later time. You can always write "we weren't allowed to say anything, but I knew all along and I stuck close to try to get incriminating information, and now I'm writing my tell-all." After all, as they say, there's no such thing as bad publicity. 

Maybe. Maybe not. Takes a lot less to believe that this cover up has survived on a congealed bed of disparate private agendas than one grand conspiracy. Only someone with nothing to lose would go so far out on a limb to assert that the Mcs were liars/murderers/conspirators. With so much at stake you hold your nerve, wait for the break, and see which direction the dust blows.

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Re: MADDIE: COPS AT WAR - Daily Star 18/2/14

Post by russiandoll on 01.03.14 17:43

CynicAl........... great post.

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contrived and dishonest — but the myth — persistent, persuasive and
unrealistic.
~John F. Kennedy


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Re: MADDIE: COPS AT WAR - Daily Star 18/2/14

Post by Guest on 01.03.14 17:45

@russiandoll wrote:CynicAl........... great post.

second that!

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Re: MADDIE: COPS AT WAR - Daily Star 18/2/14

Post by Tony Bennett on 01.03.14 17:49

@russiandoll wrote:Tony,
         I do not know if you read a post of mine on p.85 of this thread...
Both you and Harriet Harman...

expressed regret...

if...

Now can we please move back on topic

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                            "Maddie's Jammies. Where is Maddie?" - Amelie, May 2007 -  "Maddie's Jammies. Where is Maddie?"


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Re: MADDIE: COPS AT WAR - Daily Star 18/2/14

Post by pennylane on 01.03.14 18:07

@CynicAl wrote:I'm well aware of how tempting it is to develop overarching theories of grand conspiracy. They're fun. But also raise too many implausibilities which require leaps of logic to accommodate. We tend to start reading the happenstances backward and weave them into conspiracy. We start to quote KM with the 'one coincidence, two coincidences' rubbish, which simply isn't an attestable rule of systematic investigation and deduction, if for no other reason than it assumes that there are only two variables... That something is coincidence or it cannot be. There are always third options... Namely the confounding principles of greed and ambition. 

In 2007 scores ofnagencies and individuals were seen swarming over the McCann case from the first second. It could be because they had foreknowledge and were covering up. But that makes no sense. If they had foreknowledge and conspirance from outset, the conspiracy would not be riddled with cracks. Instead, the simplest explanation is that all those parties had or developed a vested interest... Saving face... Appearing to be a hero... Getting free high profile publicity for assisting in the case of the year... Newspaper sales... Ghostwriter opportunities... Fame... Money making... Protecting investment... All things you would sign up to if you were swallowing the parents story from the outset... All things you might be duped into continuing in spite of the raised doubts and many questions... All things that would be hard to back away from whenyou realised the party was over... And in some cases, all things which you might bide your time in order to 'spin' your involvement at a later time. You can always write "we weren't allowed to say anything, but I knew all along and I stuck close to try to get incriminating information, and now I'm writing my tell-all." After all, as they say, there's no such thing as bad publicity. 

Maybe. Maybe not. Takes a lot less to believe that this cover up has survived on a congealed bed of disparate private agendas than one grand conspiracy. Only someone with nothing to lose would go so far out on a limb to assert that the Mcs were liars/murderers/conspirators. With so much at stake you hold your nerve, wait for the break, and see which direction the dust blows.

Do you believe the Birmingham Forensic Science Services botched their original results, hence their jaw dropping U-turn; and do you believe they destroyed every last shred of evidence during the testing process?

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Re: MADDIE: COPS AT WAR - Daily Star 18/2/14

Post by Guest on 01.03.14 18:14

dantezebu wrote:
@russiandoll wrote:CynicAl........... great post.

second that!


Agreed - great post.

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Re: MADDIE: COPS AT WAR - Daily Star 18/2/14

Post by russiandoll on 01.03.14 18:26

Tony,

  Please see my post to aiyoyo

  " I am sorry if my criticism of TB has upset you. "  [ an apology from you hinges on my correcting IF  to THAT ?!]

    I am prepared to acknowledge when I am in the wrong . Also in my post on p.85, addressed to you :

  " I went straight to a different thread when I was alerted to what marconi had posted. I have been critical of him/ her and said I owed you an apology."

  Once again you have been offensive in a way I was not to you.

  You wish to call the tune here and revert to topic, when it suits you.

 I would point out again that I am prepared to acknowledge a mistake.

 I am not getting into semantics over this. I now find it laughable that you compare me to Harman who denied a set of circumstances ever occurred. I am not denying being critical...I certainly was. I do not know what you expect from me other than what I have said by way of an apology.

  I do REGRET that you are not prepared to do the same.

  

 

 

____________________



             The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie — deliberate,
contrived and dishonest — but the myth — persistent, persuasive and
unrealistic.
~John F. Kennedy


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Re: MADDIE: COPS AT WAR - Daily Star 18/2/14

Post by Guest on 01.03.14 18:37

I sympathize with your post RD, and understand your point,  but this is really getting us nowhere and just disrupting this thread.  Perhaps discussing with Tony by pm would be better?

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Re: MADDIE: COPS AT WAR - Daily Star 18/2/14

Post by diatribe on 01.03.14 18:48

@CynicAl wrote:I'm well aware of how tempting it is to develop overarching theories of grand conspiracy. They're fun. But also raise too many implausibilities which require leaps of logic to accommodate. We tend to start reading the happenstances backward and weave them into conspiracy. We start to quote KM with the 'one coincidence, two coincidences' rubbish, which simply isn't an attestable rule of systematic investigation and deduction, if for no other reason than it assumes that there are only two variables... That something is coincidence or it cannot be. There are always third options... Namely the confounding principles of greed and ambition. 

In 2007 scores ofnagencies and individuals were seen swarming over the McCann case from the first second. It could be because they had foreknowledge and were covering up. But that makes no sense. If they had foreknowledge and conspirance from outset, the conspiracy would not be riddled with cracks. Instead, the simplest explanation is that all those parties had or developed a vested interest... Saving face... Appearing to be a hero... Getting free high profile publicity for assisting in the case of the year... Newspaper sales... Ghostwriter opportunities... Fame... Money making... Protecting investment... All things you would sign up to if you were swallowing the parents story from the outset... All things you might be duped into continuing in spite of the raised doubts and many questions... All things that would be hard to back away from whenyou realised the party was over... And in some cases, all things which you might bide your time in order to 'spin' your involvement at a later time. You can always write "we weren't allowed to say anything, but I knew all along and I stuck close to try to get incriminating information, and now I'm writing my tell-all." After all, as they say, there's no such thing as bad publicity. 

Maybe. Maybe not. Takes a lot less to believe that this cover up has survived on a congealed bed of disparate private agendas than one grand conspiracy. Only someone with nothing to lose would go so far out on a limb to assert that the Mcs were liars/murderers/conspirators. With so much at stake you hold your nerve, wait for the break, and see which direction the dust blows.

That's basically my take on this matter ie, that this is a very simple case which should have been resolved in a short space of time. There are no criminal masterminds involved and the reason the McCanns have reigned so long is due to an element of luck, carpetbaggers jumping onto the financial gravy train and the Portugese police giving them too much benefit of the doubt at the incept.

To my mind, all the conspiracy theories manage to achieve is muddy the waters and provide the McCanns ammunition with which to discredit the credibility of their detractors. They also contribute to not being able to see the wood for the trees. I'll further state that the prime objectives of the current investigations for both police forces should be to establish the last credible sighting of Madeleine alive and find her body, the former being an easier target to achieve than the latter. Everything else should then fall into place. I really fail to see how any other lines of investigation can be taken seriously, because without the aforementioned being resolved, these investigations cannot by default, be going anywhere.

I also previously stated that the involvement of the CPS can only relate to potential proceedings relating to the formulation of a fraudulent Donation Fund, because in my opinion, that's the only aspect of this case that the British authorities will have jurisdiction rights over. That could also explain any liasonship currently transpiring between the British and Portugese prosecuting authorities.

Right, now I'm going to don my 'ard hat and in the immortal words of Michael Moore, 'Duck and cover.' big grin

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Re: MADDIE: COPS AT WAR - Daily Star 18/2/14

Post by Cristobell on 01.03.14 19:07

Taking an unwieldy stance on any aspect of this case is utterly pointless, therefore it saddens me to see members fall out, particularly when we are so close to the final reel.

This case is hugely frustrating, for some more than others, especially those who have been personally involved. However, no matter how exasperated we become, it is never right to insult other members of this forum. Words are sometimes said in anger and we later regret that, it is at that point, that is a good idea to remove them and apologise for any offence caused. It is the gentlemanly and indeed ladylike thing to do, it shows strength of character, humility and a strong sense of fair play. In people like that, we trust.

Russiandoll apologised to you Tony and to everyone else involved in Marconigate. Good manners dictate that we should accept an apology graciously, even if we have an inner voice screaming 'I don't believe you'. Good manners are the core of our society and, I would hope, the core of this forum.

Apologies if I am sounding a little preachy, but I have always thought you a gentleman Tony even if we are polar opposite in our views. The remark you made to Russiandoll was beneath you, and forgive me for saying, Un-Christian, I am sure the good Lord was always teaching us about humility and pride and how they are a bad thing to have.

It is of course entirely up to you whether you apologise and entirely up to those who read here, what they make of it.

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Re: MADDIE: COPS AT WAR - Daily Star 18/2/14

Post by diatribe on 01.03.14 19:15

Don't worry about it, Russian, at the end of the day, you've got a better avatar than Tony. big grin

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Re: MADDIE: COPS AT WAR - Daily Star 18/2/14

Post by marconi on 01.03.14 19:17

candyfloss wrote:
@marconi wrote:Short ago I post a reply to ayoyo and I can not see it here

Shall I post it again?
No.

Thank you for helping, Candyfloss. You could not have done better.

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Re: MADDIE: COPS AT WAR - Daily Star 18/2/14

Post by Guest on 01.03.14 19:18

@marconi wrote:
candyfloss wrote:
@marconi wrote:Short ago I post a reply to ayoyo and I can not see it here

Shall I post it again?
No.

Thank you for helping, Candyfloss.   You could not have done better.

No need for sarcasm Marconi, just trying to keep the peace!

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Re: MADDIE: COPS AT WAR - Daily Star 18/2/14

Post by marconi on 01.03.14 19:31

candyfloss wrote:
@marconi wrote:
candyfloss wrote:
@marconi wrote:Short ago I post a reply to ayoyo and I can not see it here

Shall I post it again?
No.

Thank you for helping, Candyfloss.   You could not have done better.

No need for sarcasm Marconi, just trying to keep the peace!

It was not sarcasm, Candyfloss. I meant it , I never attack people, I don't reply rude people, just to keep peace too.
You must have noticed it, I hope.

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Re: MADDIE: COPS AT WAR - Daily Star 18/2/14

Post by aiyoyo on 01.03.14 19:32

@russiandoll wrote:
  I do not know what you expected me to say to aiyoyo, other than I was sorry that my criticism of your attitude offended her.

Russiandoll,
Let me make it clear that you did not offend me on your criticism of TB as that is your prerogative.
I was merely speaking up against an unfair criticism, nothing personal, and would do the same for anyone for that matter if I see it as unfair.
So, don't worry yourself about it.

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Re: MADDIE: COPS AT WAR - Daily Star 18/2/14

Post by aiyoyo on 01.03.14 19:53

@marconi wrote:
candyfloss wrote:
@marconi wrote:
candyfloss wrote:
@marconi wrote:Short ago I post a reply to ayoyo and I can not see it here

Shall I post it again?
No.

Thank you for helping, Candyfloss.   You could not have done better.

No need for sarcasm Marconi, just trying to keep the peace!

It was not sarcasm, Candyfloss. I meant it , I never attack people, I don't reply rude people, just to keep peace too.
You must have noticed it, I hope.

There was nothing rude in the post that asked you to produce the email you claimed you'd written or the response you may receive, it's just a way to support your claim, else people can claim anything.
Or in the other posts, whether it be mine or others, that asked you simple questions or asked you to put more meat on your conviction, but you choose not to reply to suit your convenient.  What has keeping peace got anything to do with bad manners of not replying if replies are in civilised manner ?

You were rude to RR as pointed out by various poster, but you choose not to apologise too.  

So, to be fair, you shouldn't be attacking people's manner when you need improvements in that area.

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Re: MADDIE: COPS AT WAR - Daily Star 18/2/14

Post by russiandoll on 01.03.14 20:46

No problem aiyoyo and thanks for the message.
  Just looked at the title of this thread and of course the frustrations are inevitable as all we can do is guesswork. There will be polarised views and of course feelings are running high a lot of the time.
 It is important to remember the reason why we are all here despite the divergences of opinion, one thing we all have in common is that we want the truth.

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             The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie — deliberate,
contrived and dishonest — but the myth — persistent, persuasive and
unrealistic.
~John F. Kennedy


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