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MADDIE: COPS AT WAR - Daily Star 18/2/14

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Re: MADDIE: COPS AT WAR - Daily Star 18/2/14

Post by aquila on 18.02.14 1:06

There seems to be (imo only) an enormous myth that the PJ shelved the case, stopped looking, didn't give a hoot, poor parents left with no alternative but to hire (what turned out to be dodgy) private investigators and refused to visit the case again until new evidence was presented when this is clearly not true.

This is the base lie on which every other thing has been subsequently placed.

Just my opinion and I'm open to others.

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Re: MADDIE: COPS AT WAR - Daily Star 18/2/14

Post by ultimaThule on 18.02.14 1:11

@Tony Bennett wrote:
@Cristobell wrote:Tony, do you honestly believe the PJ and SY are going to reach different conclusions?
We haven't established yet that they are actively working together and co-operating on anything.

There are so many signs that they are not.

Do you honestly think the PJ are happy and content knowing that they are regularly being pilloried in the British press every week for being a bungling, incompetent police force?

Does not that alone tell you that there is a yawning gulf between the two police forces?
Unless it is drawn to her/his attention that s/he is being pilloried in the British press, I should imagine it's of little concern to the average PJ officer as to what is being said about the force overseas when they know the truth of the matter.  I would imagine it's much the same for British police officers too, and it has to be asked how many of these officers are fluent in another language and keep up with what the foreign press is saying?

IMO those PJ officers who originally worked on the case from May 2007 until Dr Amaral was summarily removed have cause to be less than impressed, if not aggrieved, at both the lack of co-operation they received from Leicestershire's police force and the undoubted political interference which hampered their investigation.  However, it shouldn't be overlooked that the latter came as much from the Portuguese government as it did from the British.

Years on, a different British police force is on the case in the form of the Met's Operation Grange, there's been a change in the PJ personnel who were also tasked to undertake a review prior to their investigation being formally re-opened, and I very much doubt that any responsible adults, let alone professionally trained police officers, would allow old grudges to impede the work that is required to be done before those who committed a most heinous crime against a small child are brought to justice.

This case has continues to cause embarrassment to two countries who are each others' oldest allies and I see no reason to believe that their police forces and respective governments are not united in their desire to remove the stain it has cast on both nations and, in particular, on the good people of Praia de Luz.   

Far from telling me 'that there is a yawning gulf between the two police forces', everything I read in the UK and Portuguese msm serves to further convince me that a very fine game is being played out and there is every reason to believe that Madeleine Beth McCann will have the long overdue justice she deserves in the not too distant future.

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Re: MADDIE: COPS AT WAR - Daily Star 18/2/14

Post by lj on 18.02.14 1:19

@Tony Bennett wrote:
@canada12 wrote:Oh dear. Sigh. Didn't we predict this would be the next story... bumbling Portuguese cops...
Indeed, credit to the person or persons who predicted on this forum just a couple of days ago that this would be the very next story.

But I think there's more than an element of truth in it, because despite the claims on both sides that they are 'working together', all the indications are that the PJ are utterly fed up with the antics of the British government and the British police.

I suggest that this piece has appeared because the Portuguese police are 'not playing ball' with Redwood and his men

Oh yes. Not only that but Andy is carefully working on his "it's not my fault" defense.

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Re: MADDIE: COPS AT WAR - Daily Star 18/2/14

Post by ultimaThule on 18.02.14 1:30

@lj wrote:
@canada12 wrote:Oh dear. Sigh. Didn't we predict this would be the next story... bumbling Portuguese cops...
You'd think their source would come up with something original instead of recycling that old lame wail from 2007 and 2008.


Yep, the Portuguese are to blame. That will be the final conclusion of a million pounds down the drain exercise.
We've got a General Election here next year, lj, and David Cameron's Conservative Party will be pulling out all the stops to remind the public of the danger inherent in inflicting another Labour govenment on the country. 

What better way to jog the memories of the 'common people' than the trial of those who perpetrated a heinous crime on a 3 year child which will undoubtedly reveal how the machinations of Blair and Brown effectively impeded the course of justice?

Once that trial is underway every political department will have cause to celebrate each day being, to paraphrase a certain Labour government minion's gaffe, 'a good news day'.   big grin

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Re: MADDIE: COPS AT WAR - Daily Star 18/2/14

Post by lj on 18.02.14 1:31

@sharonl wrote:Oh, it's arrived then

I have been waiting for the headline "NSY have identified Maddies abductor but cannot make arrests because the Portuguese are not co-operating" and NSY are reluctant to name the suspect because they don't want to alert him whilst waiting for PJ assistance.  

McCanns are in the clear and that's the last we hear of it.

 goodpost 

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Re: MADDIE: COPS AT WAR - Daily Star 18/2/14

Post by lj on 18.02.14 1:34

@Cristobell wrote:With respect Tony, the evidence appears to show otherwise.  Scotland Yard are frequently visiting Portugal by all accounts, which suggests they are working together.  It was only days ago we saw the pictures of DCI Redwood and colleagues arrive in Portugal.  

Andy HAS to meet them, otherwise he could never claim the Portuguese are screwing it up again.

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Re: MADDIE: COPS AT WAR - Daily Star 18/2/14

Post by aquila on 18.02.14 1:34

What puzzles me from the erudite people on this forum is the need to say Portugal and Britain are oldest allies as if it makes any significant difference to solving this case.

Had Madeleine disappeared in Germany would that make a difference to solving the case?

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Re: MADDIE: COPS AT WAR - Daily Star 18/2/14

Post by aquila on 18.02.14 1:37

@lj wrote:
@Cristobell wrote:With respect Tony, the evidence appears to show otherwise.  Scotland Yard are frequently visiting Portugal by all accounts, which suggests they are working together.  It was only days ago we saw the pictures of DCI Redwood and colleagues arrive in Portugal.  

Andy HAS to meet them, otherwise he could never claim the Portuguese are screwing it up again.
lj...Andy and the rest of the boys in the band arrived in Portugal with a shedload of paperwork and a convenient photographer.

That says it all.

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Re: MADDIE: COPS AT WAR - Daily Star 18/2/14

Post by Indricotherium on 18.02.14 1:50

Hi everyone, long-time lurker here. 

Just to add another confused voice. The Mirror article claims that the man who died in the tractor incident was a suspect due to anomalous phone activity, and claims that he may have abducted Madeleine as some strange act of revenge against former employers. Other articles claim there was a burglary gang (not necessarily specifying that the tractor man was part of it) which were under suspicion because of anomalous phone activity amongst them. 

And now the Star is claiming that the tractor man (and anyone he was involved with) is a completely separate suspect to the gang of burglars, even though the Mirror article claims 'yesterday it emerged that British cold-case detectives are anxious to trace three of his known associates'.

What a mess!

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Re: MADDIE: COPS AT WAR - Daily Star 18/2/14

Post by jeanmonroe on 18.02.14 2:11

And the Met's RIGHT 'suspect' is.............................?

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Re: MADDIE: COPS AT WAR - Daily Star 18/2/14

Post by canada12 on 18.02.14 2:16

Confusion is good.  laugh 

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Re: MADDIE: COPS AT WAR - Daily Star 18/2/14

Post by Bishop Brennan on 18.02.14 2:17

And of course none of them took Maddie. A disgruntled employee who found another job right away doesn't steal a kid. Small-time burglars who steal iPhones and wallets don't suddenly steal a kid. Only child abductors steal kids and they have all been checked.  These 'suspects' only link is that they were in the area. How can anyone claim that is other than a long long long shot.  

If that is the best that the PJ and SY have got, then no amount of cooperation will help close this case.

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Re: MADDIE: COPS AT WAR - Daily Star 18/2/14

Post by marconi on 18.02.14 2:27

Why so much noise around a tabloid?    We know how tabloids can be and generally are.
I don't believe in any trouble between the Yard and the PJ.

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Re: MADDIE: COPS AT WAR - Daily Star 18/2/14

Post by lj on 18.02.14 2:35

@ultimaThule wrote:
Bellisa wrote:Yeah until now I had no doubt that PJ were working along the same line as the initial investigation,your remark just made me stop and wonder if maybe they are going down a different route.

Regardless if they are going through a process of elimination or not,I would have thought that if nothing else the tapas group would be requested to.voluntarily attend for interviews since SY re-opened the case?
What makes you think they haven't?  It's inconceivable that this £7million and rising 'review' turned murder 'investigation' has been conducted without time having been set aside to speak to the key players witnesses to the event of the child's disappearance.

What makes me think they haven't are the repeated, overly extensive, unnecessarily empathic, assurances that the parents and their friends are not suspects, not even persons of interest, and are not being investigated.

And no I don't believe that is a "smart" ploy to lull the parents in a feeling of false security.

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Re: MADDIE: COPS AT WAR - Daily Star 18/2/14

Post by ultimaThule on 18.02.14 2:38

@lj wrote:
@ultimaThule wrote:
Bellisa wrote:Yeah until now I had no doubt that PJ were working along the same line as the initial investigation,your remark just made me stop and wonder if maybe they are going down a different route.

Regardless if they are going through a process of elimination or not,I would have thought that if nothing else the tapas group would be requested to.voluntarily attend for interviews since SY re-opened the case?
What makes you think they haven't?  It's inconceivable that this £7million and rising 'review' turned murder 'investigation' has been conducted without time having been set aside to speak to the key players witnesses to the event of the child's disappearance.

What makes me think they haven't are the repeated, overly extensive, unnecessarily empathic, assurances that the parents and their friends are not suspects, not even persons of interest, and are not being investigated.

And no I don't believe that is a "smart" ploy to lull the parents in a feeling of false security.
The last time I heard any such assurances from AR was around October of last year.  Have you heard or seen any lately, lj?

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Re: MADDIE: COPS AT WAR - Daily Star 18/2/14

Post by lj on 18.02.14 2:39

@roy rovers wrote:We are working on the basis of two possibilities here: one is that the spirit of cooperation between SY and the PJ is still alive; and the second that it is is sadly dead.


 titter 

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Re: MADDIE: COPS AT WAR - Daily Star 18/2/14

Post by aquila on 18.02.14 2:40

@lj wrote:
@ultimaThule wrote:
Bellisa wrote:Yeah until now I had no doubt that PJ were working along the same line as the initial investigation,your remark just made me stop and wonder if maybe they are going down a different route.

Regardless if they are going through a process of elimination or not,I would have thought that if nothing else the tapas group would be requested to.voluntarily attend for interviews since SY re-opened the case?
What makes you think they haven't?  It's inconceivable that this £7million and rising 'review' turned murder 'investigation' has been conducted without time having been set aside to speak to the key players witnesses to the event of the child's disappearance.

What makes me think they haven't are the repeated, overly extensive, unnecessarily empathic, assurances that the parents and their friends are not suspects, not even persons of interest, and are not being investigated.

And no I don't believe that is a "smart" ploy to lull the parents in a feeling of false security.
me neither lj.  thumbup

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Re: MADDIE: COPS AT WAR - Daily Star 18/2/14

Post by lj on 18.02.14 3:03

@espeland wrote:
@Tony Bennett wrote:
Do you honestly think the PJ are happy and content knowing that they are regularly being pilloried in the British press every week for being a bungling, incompetent police force?


I would think they are not at all concerned - they know their reputation will be restored when the case is resolved. I also think there is insufficient evidence that the PJ and SY aren't working well together - neither are talking publicly. If there was a yawning gulf, don't you think SY would go to a higher authority and there would be political intervention such as a visit?

Why would you want a political intervention? Apart from the fact that it would seriously undermine the separation of powers, we have seen where that led the last time in 2007-2008.

Plus why would you think the SY should be in the innocent one here? It might very well be that the SY comes with all kind of irrational request, like going over all those phonecalls and linking those to their growing mass of "people to be excluded" and other kind of Sisyphus works.

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Re: MADDIE: COPS AT WAR - Daily Star 18/2/14

Post by lj on 18.02.14 3:15

@ultimaThule wrote:
@lj wrote:
@ultimaThule wrote:
Bellisa wrote:Yeah until now I had no doubt that PJ were working along the same line as the initial investigation,your remark just made me stop and wonder if maybe they are going down a different route.

Regardless if they are going through a process of elimination or not,I would have thought that if nothing else the tapas group would be requested to.voluntarily attend for interviews since SY re-opened the case?
What makes you think they haven't?  It's inconceivable that this £7million and rising 'review' turned murder 'investigation' has been conducted without time having been set aside to speak to the key players witnesses to the event of the child's disappearance.

What makes me think they haven't are the repeated, overly extensive, unnecessarily empathic, assurances that the parents and their friends are not suspects, not even persons of interest, and are not being investigated.

And no I don't believe that is a "smart" ploy to lull the parents in a feeling of false security.
The last time I heard any such assurances from AR was around October of last year.  Have you heard or seen any lately, lj?

Now you want him to repeat that every 2 weeks or so? Just to say it is all a smart trick to fool the parents?

Come on UT, You have the right to blindly believe that SY will come to the right decision/suspect. I have the right to believe this all will lead to nothing and they will blame the Portuguese for it. I said that when they started and all I have seen and heard so far only supported that opinion.

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Re: MADDIE: COPS AT WAR - Daily Star 18/2/14

Post by ultimaThule on 18.02.14 3:30

@aquila wrote:What puzzles me from the erudite people on this forum is the need to say Portugal and Britain are oldest allies as if it makes any significant difference to solving this case.

Had Madeleine disappeared in Germany would that make a difference to solving the case?
The Treaty of Windsor is worthy of mention because, having lasted for 628 years to date, it is the oldest diplomatic alliance in the world but not many Brits appear to be aware of this fact.

In addition, I believe that the reason the McCanns were, effectively, treated with kid gloves by the PJ and prematurely allowed to leave Portugal was in part due to neither country wishing to cause offence to the other, and that Britain was particularly keen to put an end to the xenophobic 'johnny foreigner' attitude prevalent in a UK msm which was largely supportive of the pair at that time.  

I am leaning towards the theory that it was not part of the plan for Madeleine to disppear in Germany or any other northern European country but, if she had done so, I very much doubt the outcome would be any different.

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Re: MADDIE: COPS AT WAR - Daily Star 18/2/14

Post by ultimaThule on 18.02.14 3:42

@lj wrote:
@ultimaThule wrote:
@lj wrote:
@ultimaThule wrote:
Bellisa wrote:Yeah until now I had no doubt that PJ were working along the same line as the initial investigation,your remark just made me stop and wonder if maybe they are going down a different route.

Regardless if they are going through a process of elimination or not,I would have thought that if nothing else the tapas group would be requested to.voluntarily attend for interviews since SY re-opened the case?
What makes you think they haven't?  It's inconceivable that this £7million and rising 'review' turned murder 'investigation' has been conducted without time having been set aside to speak to the key players witnesses to the event of the child's disappearance.

What makes me think they haven't are the repeated, overly extensive, unnecessarily empathic, assurances that the parents and their friends are not suspects, not even persons of interest, and are not being investigated.


And no I don't believe that is a "smart" ploy to lull the parents in a feeling of false security.
The last time I heard any such assurances from AR was around October of last year.  Have you heard or seen any lately, lj?

Now you want him to repeat that every 2 weeks or so? Just to say it is all a smart trick to fool the parents?

Come on UT, You have the right to blindly believe that SY will come to the right decision/suspect. I have the right to believe this all will lead to nothing and they will blame the Portuguese for it. I said that when they started and all I have seen and heard so far  only supported that opinion.
The point is that these 'assurances' as you call them, lj,  were made back in October of last year and I don't beleve they were made as 'a smart trick' to fool the parents so much as out of desire not to see lynch mobs heading in the direction of Rothley Towers and setting up a makeshift gallows on the village green.  

I recall reading on this forum that, such is her colossal vanity, Kate claimed there'd be rioting in the streets of Britain if she was arrested in Portugal, but it seems to me to be far more likely there'll be riots if Grange proves to be no more than one of the most expensive whitewashes in criminal history.

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Re: MADDIE: COPS AT WAR - Daily Star 18/2/14

Post by Bishop Brennan on 18.02.14 4:06

@ultimaThule wrote:
I recall reading on this forum that, such is her colossal vanity, Kate claimed there'd be rioting in the streets of Britain if she was arrested in Portugal, but it seems to me to be far more likely there'll be riots if Grange proves to be no more than one of the most expensive whitewashes in criminal history.

Given the general apathy of the public, I doubt there would more than a concentrated flurry of outraged online posting in the event of a whitewash.  The evidence so far suggests that neither will happen, rather that the case will just fade away with a bland official SY summary along the lines of: "The evidence points to an abduction by person or persons in the area at the time. There are strong suspicions about Tractorman / Gypsies / Burglars, however, there is insufficient evidence to prosecute anyone of anything."  

Basically something that counter-balances the original PJ summary and lets the McCanns sail away forever into the sunset - keeping the fund alive to support a never-ending 'search', and popping up in the papers from time to time to boost their profile.  All UK political reputations kept intact. Case Closed.  

I sincerely hope I am wrong, but evidence to the contrary is hard to find.

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Re: MADDIE: COPS AT WAR - Daily Star 18/2/14

Post by sonic72 on 18.02.14 4:22

Just goes to show how much rubbish the papers print. One minute they're showing pictures of SY chaps pulling cases of legal docs, which paints the impression of co-operation, backed up with SY having made many regular trips to Portugal, and now we hear they are not really co-operating?! Confusing isn't it!!

Also, why do the newspapers always print that picture of Madeleine? Surely if she was really still out there then it'd be most helpful to the search if they posted the age-progression photo, even if it is only a computer's estimate of how she might look. It's certainly more use than a picture of what she looked like a year before she vanished.

I'm surprised the Mccanns haven't gone mental at the newpapers for 'harming the search'. By posting an old photo of Madeleine, they're harming the 'search'.

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Re: MADDIE: COPS AT WAR - Daily Star 18/2/14

Post by lj on 18.02.14 5:34

@ultimaThule wrote:
@lj wrote:
@ultimaThule wrote:
@lj wrote:
@ultimaThule wrote:
Bellisa wrote:Yeah until now I had no doubt that PJ were working along the same line as the initial investigation,your remark just made me stop and wonder if maybe they are going down a different route.

Regardless if they are going through a process of elimination or not,I would have thought that if nothing else the tapas group would be requested to.voluntarily attend for interviews since SY re-opened the case?
What makes you think they haven't?  It's inconceivable that this £7million and rising 'review' turned murder 'investigation' has been conducted without time having been set aside to speak to the key players witnesses to the event of the child's disappearance.

What makes me think they haven't are the repeated, overly extensive, unnecessarily empathic, assurances that the parents and their friends are not suspects, not even persons of interest, and are not being investigated.


And no I don't believe that is a "smart" ploy to lull the parents in a feeling of false security.
The last time I heard any such assurances from AR was around October of last year.  Have you heard or seen any lately, lj?

Now you want him to repeat that every 2 weeks or so? Just to say it is all a smart trick to fool the parents?

Come on UT, You have the right to blindly believe that SY will come to the right decision/suspect. I have the right to believe this all will lead to nothing and they will blame the Portuguese for it. I said that when they started and all I have seen and heard so far  only supported that opinion.
The point is that these 'assurances' as you call them, lj,  were made back in October of last year and I don't beleve they were made as 'a smart trick' to fool the parents so much as out of desire not to see lynch mobs heading in the direction of Rothley Towers and setting up a makeshift gallows on the village green.  

I recall reading on this forum that, such is her colossal vanity, Kate claimed there'd be rioting in the streets of Britain if she was arrested in Portugal, but it seems to me to be far more likely there'll be riots if Grange proves to be no more than one of the most expensive whitewashes in criminal history.

I had to look it up since English is only one of the 4 languages I handle per day. The dictionary gives "presumptuous boldness; impudence" as description of assurances, so I would say that that was a fairly correct word.

October is just 3 months ago, seems like yesterday, 3 months in an investigation going on 3 yr now? Since it was so important for Andy to make very very clear that the parents are just grieving parents iso suspects, I suspect he has not had a reason to all at the sudden change that. So it stands, in all its naked silliness.

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http://pjga.blogspot.co.uk/?m=0

http://whatreallyhappenedtomadeleinemccann.blogspot.co.uk/

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Re: MADDIE: COPS AT WAR - Daily Star 18/2/14

Post by Seek truth on 18.02.14 6:35

More like at war with foreigners!
The front page MIGRANTS, and PORTUGUESE COPS.

The thing is the Algarve is full of English.
 sarcastic 

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