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Scotland Yard want joint investigation...just announced

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Re: Scotland Yard want joint investigation...just announced

Post by aiyoyo on 27.11.13 16:38

Well, let's say the Mccanns won't be complaining about bungling Cop Redwood, nor will they be complaining about MET blotched Review.

However, they have no clue what the PJ has that justifies the reopening.



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Re: Scotland Yard want joint investigation...just announced

Post by kitchen on 27.11.13 16:38

This is probably influenced by my natural optimism but supposing SY know that the PJ are starting to put a case together or even that the libel case will produce evidence pointing to a resolution. They will want to be inside the tent not sitting outside.

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Re: Scotland Yard want joint investigation...just announced

Post by kitchen on 27.11.13 16:46

candyfloss wrote:Well they are obviously not singing from the same hymn sheet are they and not on the same page either...........



Jerry Lawton ‏@JerryLawton  3m  
Met Police Commissioner admits Brit & Portuguese #McCann police teams following `different' lines of inquiry

..or could it be that the different lines of enquiry are Madeleine's disappearance (Portuguese)and the fund/fraud (SY) To prove fraud you have to prove that the McCann's knew what happened to Madeleine ... (I'm taking a positive view today, tomorrow I'll be back in the doldrums)

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Re: Scotland Yard want joint investigation...just announced

Post by tiny on 27.11.13 16:49

I thought it was the pj who were supposed to be the bungling cops.all that money wasted on this uk review and for jac* *hit:grrrr:

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Re: Scotland Yard want joint investigation...just announced

Post by Guest on 27.11.13 16:58

@kitchen wrote: [...] or could it be that the different lines of enquiry are Madeleine's disappearance (Portuguese)and the fund/fraud (SY) To prove fraud you have to prove that the McCann's knew what happened to Madeleine ... (I'm taking a positive view today, tomorrow I'll be back in the doldrums)
***
Now hang on to that one. It makes me feel better too.

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Re: Scotland Yard want joint investigation...just announced

Post by Guest on 27.11.13 17:09

would a joint team solve the problem of arresting the mcs in the uk.
And the problem of extradition?
Just being  an optimist.

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Re: Scotland Yard want joint investigation...just announced

Post by Guest on 27.11.13 17:21

I just found this:

The EU Framework for two Member States to set up a Joint Investigation Team:

Setting up joint investigation teams

In order to carry out criminal investigations in Member States which necessitate coordinated and concerted action, at least two Member States may set up a joint investigation team. To that end, the competent authorities of the relevant Member States enter into an agreement determining the procedures to be followed by the team. The joint team must be set up for:

a specific purpose; and
a limited period (which may be renewed with the agreement of all the parties involved).
The Member States that set up the team will decide on its composition, purpose and duration. They may also allow representatives of Europol and OLAF and representatives of third countries take part in the team's activities.

Members of the joint investigation team from Member States other than the Member State in which the team operates are referred to as being "seconded" to the team. They may carry out tasks in accordance with the law of the Member State where the team is operating.

With respect to offences committed by them or against them, officials from a Member State other than the Member State of operation are to be regarded as officials of the Member State of operation.

http://europa.eu/legislation_summaries/ ... 172_en.htm

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Re: Scotland Yard want joint investigation...just announced

Post by rustyjames on 27.11.13 17:27

dantezebu wrote:would a joint team solve the problem of arresting the mcs in the uk.
And the problem of extradition?
Just being  an optimist.
Trying to be optimistic too.  This could give the Portuguese additional powers in the UK.  Quote below from the BBC report.

He said a new "formal arrangement" would allow "officers from each country to work in the other country - it gives them powers associated with that and it's an efficient way of doing it".

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Re: Scotland Yard want joint investigation...just announced

Post by rustyjames on 27.11.13 17:29

In other words I assume no need for rogatory letters etc.

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Re: Scotland Yard want joint investigation...just announced

Post by Penfold on 27.11.13 17:31

Châtelaine wrote:
@kitchen wrote: [...] or could it be that the different lines of enquiry are Madeleine's disappearance (Portuguese)and the fund/fraud (SY) To prove fraud you have to prove that the McCann's knew what happened to Madeleine ... (I'm taking a positive view today, tomorrow I'll be back in the doldrums)
***
Now hang on to that one. It makes me feel better too.
Ever the optimist too - obviously 'something' has cropped up prompting the Met to seek this. I can't imagine what it is, but it really can't be bad can it? Can It?

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Re: Scotland Yard want joint investigation...just announced

Post by Daisy on 27.11.13 17:36

@aiyoyo wrote:Well, let's say the Mccanns won't be complaining about bungling Cop Redwood, nor will they be complaining about MET blotched Review.

However, they have no clue what the PJ has that justifies the reopening.  


That's a very good point.

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Re: Scotland Yard want joint investigation...just announced

Post by chillyheat on 27.11.13 18:11

Its not just about two investigating forces though. You also have to wonder why there was involvement by Military Intelligence, Special Branch etc, all of which have the means to cover up anything they want. And they do....

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Re: Scotland Yard want joint investigation...just announced

Post by margaret on 27.11.13 18:16

I'm sure the Pj will say yes and if they do l can't see it being a whitewash...

Maybe all the details have been agreed in advance and this is all just being played out to see what effect it has on certain people....

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Re: Scotland Yard want joint investigation...just announced

Post by Smokeandmirrors on 27.11.13 18:21

@Daisy wrote:
@aiyoyo wrote:Well, let's say the Mccanns won't be complaining about bungling Cop Redwood, nor will they be complaining about MET blotched Review.

However, they have no clue what the PJ has that justifies the reopening.  


That's a very good point.
It is a very good point. Both police forces have already spent an exceptionally large amount of money to date and in times where everyone is facing cut backs, I can see no reason for this persistence unless the expenditure can be justified in the long run. 

I also believe the libel trial now being delayed for another 6 weeks is significant. It is related IMO. 

The Find Madeleine "donate" option no longer being available at this time is also connected I think. As is the CMTV item, which would undoubtedly have been cleared by legal eagles as there is an ongoing trial. 

Tomorrows Crimewatch update might bring us a better understanding of SY current position.

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Re: Scotland Yard want joint investigation...just announced

Post by aiyoyo on 27.11.13 18:26

@tiny wrote:
@aiyoyo wrote:"
There are two separate inquiries with a different focus - we've got one particular set of lines of inquiry and they have a different one. But it's important that we work together on what is clearly a common problem.
That says it ALL really.

They are each working on different angle that makes one wonders where they got working materials from, if not from the same files!

Looks like the MET Review is just waste of time and money thus far.
I think sy are working from what the mccanns say and the Portuguese are working from the files
I wonder what the mentioned 'common problem' might be ?
Would it be no hard evidence to put the medical professionals in the dock, despite the MET having pooled together info from 3 strands and in a better position to know the extent of their deception.

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Re: Scotland Yard want joint investigation...just announced

Post by Guest on 27.11.13 18:28

@tasprin wrote:
@aiyoyo wrote:"
There are two separate inquiries with a different focus - we've got one particular set of lines of inquiry and they have a different one. But it's important that we work together on what is clearly a common problem.
That says it ALL really.

They are each working on different angle that makes one wonders where they got working materials from, if not from the same files!

Looks like the MET Review is just waste of time and money thus far.
Yes, I kept hoping but now Scotland Yard's investigation is beginning to look like a bungling mess and a waste of taxpayers money. If they really are discounting all theories except abduction, how could it be anything other than a botched inquiry?
It is not

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Re: Scotland Yard want joint investigation...just announced

Post by sofieellis on 27.11.13 18:32

When did the Find Madeleine Donate button (and the online store) disappear?

Is this significant?

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Re: Scotland Yard want joint investigation...just announced

Post by Guest on 27.11.13 18:32

@margaret wrote:I'm sure the Pj will say yes and if they do l can't see it being a whitewash...

Maybe all the details have been agreed in advance and this is all just being played out to see what effect it has on certain people....
Likely

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Re: Scotland Yard want joint investigation...just announced

Post by Guest on 27.11.13 18:37

I trust both Governments

I trust both police forces

I trust dr Goncalo Amaral, and Andy Redwood;

This will not go away

I  trust the McCs to come foreward;

They do not have to rat on each other;

Most likely, all their communications have been monitored since Day One

I expect a lawyer on their behalf to cringe forward, and ask for full pardon

And get it

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Re: Scotland Yard want joint investigation...just announced

Post by Guest on 27.11.13 18:39

Châtelaine wrote:I just found this:

The EU Framework for two Member States to set up a Joint Investigation Team:

Setting up joint investigation teams

In order to carry out criminal investigations in Member States which necessitate coordinated and concerted action, at least two Member States may set up a joint investigation team. To that end, the competent authorities of the relevant Member States enter into an agreement determining the procedures to be followed by the team. The joint team must be set up for:

a specific purpose; and
a limited period (which may be renewed with the agreement of all the parties involved).
The Member States that set up the team will decide on its composition, purpose and duration. They may also allow representatives of Europol and OLAF and representatives of third countries take part in the team's activities.

Members of the joint investigation team from Member States other than the Member State in which the team operates are referred to as being "seconded" to the team. They may carry out tasks in accordance with the law of the Member State where the team is operating.

With respect to offences committed by them or against them, officials from a Member State other than the Member State of operation are to be regarded as officials of the Member State of operation.

http://europa.eu/legislation_summaries/ ... 172_en.htm
The "Criminal Investigation" bit is the key, I feel. The supposed abduction took place in Portugal, why would there be a British element but for the reasons that have already been speculated about?

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Re: Scotland Yard want joint investigation...just announced

Post by Smokeandmirrors on 27.11.13 18:43

£millions spent, many many thousands of people following this case, if there is a whitewash, it won't be the end of the matter. The hundreds of thousands of people who know there is something very fishy going on aren't just going to forget everything and move on. 

I want to be optimistic, and hope that recent changes in the air will bring the right result.

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Re: Scotland Yard want joint investigation...just announced

Post by Cristobell on 27.11.13 18:45

@sofieellis wrote:When did the Find Madeleine Donate button (and the online store) disappear?

Is this significant?
I believe it is Sofie.  Had it happened 6 years ago, the forums would have been buzzing.  Basically they have stopped raising money for the Fund and I can't see them doing that willingly.  It raises the question, is the Fund under investigation? 

As so SY and PJ following different lines of enquiry, it would make sense if the PJ investigated the original crime as it is within their geographic area. It would also make sense if 'other' crimes, particularly of a financial nature were investigated in the UK where 12 of the people of interest are resident.

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Re: Scotland Yard want joint investigation...just announced

Post by melisande on 27.11.13 18:47

@sofieellis wrote:When did the Find Madeleine Donate button (and the online store) disappear?

Is this significant?
I saw this mentioned earlier today.  First I knew about it.  I checked it out and both the online shop and donate has been closed for "updating" .  You can still buy the book though for £7.99.  Imo I think this is VERY significant.
Eta by that I mean selling the book is not fraudulent with regard to the fund but using donations for questionable means is.

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Re: Scotland Yard want joint investigation...just announced

Post by Cristobell on 27.11.13 18:53

@Smokeandmirrors wrote:£millions spent, many many thousands of people following this case, if there is a whitewash, it won't be the end of the matter. The hundreds of thousands of people who know there is something very fishy going on aren't just going to forget everything and move on. 

I want to be optimistic, and hope that recent changes in the air will bring the right result.
I think the faces of the McCanns say it all Smokeandmirrors. I also believe the fact they have not removed Jane Tanner's sighting from their website is significant.  I would even go so as to say there may well be a rift between the McCanns and Scotland Yard. Leaving Tannerman on their website suggests they are not supporting this new line of investigation and are sticking with their original story.

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