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Met boss defends Portuguese police

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Re: Met boss defends Portuguese police

Post by ultimaThule on 23.10.13 19:57

The Inspector continues to go straight to the heart of the matter. 

Without wishing to be melodramatic, I've sensed evil in this case.  On occasion it's seemed to emanate from my tv screen and the sight of certain people has made me want to jump in the shower to cleanse myself of what I've seen on their faces and in their eyes.

The analogy of the 'repulsive fattened bluebottle supping on dead and rotten meat' perfectly describes Clarence Mitchell who sold his soul long before his association with the McCanns presupposing, of course, that he has ever been in possession of a soul to sell which didn't belong to another.

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Re: Met boss defends Portuguese police

Post by thetruthbeknown on 23.10.13 20:01

Châtelaine wrote:
@AndyB wrote:
Châtelaine wrote:I've been reading up on some CPS info. For people, who some time laying around, I can recommend having a look at it.
http://www.cps.gov.uk/legal/v_to_z/safeguarding_children_as_victims_and_witnesses/#a05

Interesting to see that at the time the U.K. reserved some rights:

The Council of Europe's 1959 convention provides at article 21 for the transfer of criminal proceedings to another state. The United Kingdom has a reservation to this article, reserving the right not to apply it. This does not prevent the UK from accepting a transfer from a state that has ratified the convention, nor does it prevent the UK from transferring proceedings to such a state. Many international instruments allow for the possibility of transfer but again, silence on the issue does not prevent it from being undertaken. A request pursuant to article 21 must be routed via UKCA who are likely to request a CPS cover letter setting out the position and formally requesting that the appropriate authority in the other state consider an investigation/prosecution regarding the transferred file.

For EU and Schengen Agreement states, article 6 of the 2000 MLA convention also references the possibility of transfer and explicitly cross-references article 21 of the 1959 convention. A request pursuant to article 6 can be made directly by the CPS to the appropriate authority in the requested state and need not be routed via UKCA.
I can't find the quoted text on the linked page. Is the link the right one?
***
I'm preparing dinner, so have to be brief. I may have drawn a link from a page I was reading, when posting. Just go to home page; you'll find it.

ETA IMO they're not on to abduction, so ...
I think the PJ case was shelved as 'homicide'...would like confirmation of that, if anyone has access?  It is really complex right now..but we have another 'kind of' case open which can only be progression from the stagnated 'shelved' can it not? At least theres a chance of something coming of it?

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Re: Met boss defends Portuguese police

Post by Karen Pinto on 23.10.13 20:28

Yes indeed,  case was shelved not closed. see here :
 

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Re: Met boss defends Portuguese police

Post by AndyB on 23.10.13 21:19

Châtelaine wrote:
@AndyB wrote:
Châtelaine wrote:I've been reading up on some CPS info. For people, who some time laying around, I can recommend having a look at it.
http://www.cps.gov.uk/legal/v_to_z/safeguarding_children_as_victims_and_witnesses/#a05

Interesting to see that at the time the U.K. reserved some rights:

The Council of Europe's 1959 convention provides at article 21 for the transfer of criminal proceedings to another state. The United Kingdom has a reservation to this article, reserving the right not to apply it. This does not prevent the UK from accepting a transfer from a state that has ratified the convention, nor does it prevent the UK from transferring proceedings to such a state. Many international instruments allow for the possibility of transfer but again, silence on the issue does not prevent it from being undertaken. A request pursuant to article 21 must be routed via UKCA who are likely to request a CPS cover letter setting out the position and formally requesting that the appropriate authority in the other state consider an investigation/prosecution regarding the transferred file.

For EU and Schengen Agreement states, article 6 of the 2000 MLA convention also references the possibility of transfer and explicitly cross-references article 21 of the 1959 convention. A request pursuant to article 6 can be made directly by the CPS to the appropriate authority in the requested state and need not be routed via UKCA.
I can't find the quoted text on the linked page. Is the link the right one?
***
I'm preparing dinner, so have to be brief. I may have drawn a link from a page I was reading, when posting. Just go to home page; you'll find it.

ETA IMO they're not on to abduction, so ...
That's the most intriguing thing: I'm firmly on the whitewash side of the belief fence and yet I cannot deny the logic of the counter argument: SY upgraded from a review to an investigation. Assuming that they are investigating charges that can be brought in England, and abduction charges cannot be, it therefore follows that they aren't actually investigating an abduction, despite outward appearances. What then, exactly, are they investigating?

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Re: Met boss defends Portuguese police

Post by thetruthbeknown on 23.10.13 21:44

@AndyB wrote:
Châtelaine wrote:
@AndyB wrote:
Châtelaine wrote:I've been reading up on some CPS info. For people, who some time laying around, I can recommend having a look at it.
http://www.cps.gov.uk/legal/v_to_z/safeguarding_children_as_victims_and_witnesses/#a05

Interesting to see that at the time the U.K. reserved some rights:

The Council of Europe's 1959 convention provides at article 21 for the transfer of criminal proceedings to another state. The United Kingdom has a reservation to this article, reserving the right not to apply it. This does not prevent the UK from accepting a transfer from a state that has ratified the convention, nor does it prevent the UK from transferring proceedings to such a state. Many international instruments allow for the possibility of transfer but again, silence on the issue does not prevent it from being undertaken. A request pursuant to article 21 must be routed via UKCA who are likely to request a CPS cover letter setting out the position and formally requesting that the appropriate authority in the other state consider an investigation/prosecution regarding the transferred file.

For EU and Schengen Agreement states, article 6 of the 2000 MLA convention also references the possibility of transfer and explicitly cross-references article 21 of the 1959 convention. A request pursuant to article 6 can be made directly by the CPS to the appropriate authority in the requested state and need not be routed via UKCA.
I can't find the quoted text on the linked page. Is the link the right one?
***
I'm preparing dinner, so have to be brief. I may have drawn a link from a page I was reading, when posting. Just go to home page; you'll find it.

ETA IMO they're not on to abduction, so ...
That's the most intriguing thing: I'm firmly on the whitewash side of the belief fence and yet I cannot deny the logic of the counter argument: SY upgraded from a review to an investigation. Assuming that they are investigating charges that can be brought in England, and abduction charges cannot be, it therefore follows that they aren't actually investigating an abduction, despite outward appearances. What then, exactly, are they investigating?
A new post has come on saying PJ is applying to reopen..that has to be good news..I cant see them agreeing if the new evidence had been solely on an 'abduction' kind of theory?

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Re: Met boss defends Portuguese police

Post by AndyB on 23.10.13 22:14

@thetruthbeknown wrote:
@AndyB wrote:
Châtelaine wrote:
@AndyB wrote:
Châtelaine wrote:I've been reading up on some CPS info. For people, who some time laying around, I can recommend having a look at it.
http://www.cps.gov.uk/legal/v_to_z/safeguarding_children_as_victims_and_witnesses/#a05

Interesting to see that at the time the U.K. reserved some rights:

The Council of Europe's 1959 convention provides at article 21 for the transfer of criminal proceedings to another state. The United Kingdom has a reservation to this article, reserving the right not to apply it. This does not prevent the UK from accepting a transfer from a state that has ratified the convention, nor does it prevent the UK from transferring proceedings to such a state. Many international instruments allow for the possibility of transfer but again, silence on the issue does not prevent it from being undertaken. A request pursuant to article 21 must be routed via UKCA who are likely to request a CPS cover letter setting out the position and formally requesting that the appropriate authority in the other state consider an investigation/prosecution regarding the transferred file.

For EU and Schengen Agreement states, article 6 of the 2000 MLA convention also references the possibility of transfer and explicitly cross-references article 21 of the 1959 convention. A request pursuant to article 6 can be made directly by the CPS to the appropriate authority in the requested state and need not be routed via UKCA.
I can't find the quoted text on the linked page. Is the link the right one?
***
I'm preparing dinner, so have to be brief. I may have drawn a link from a page I was reading, when posting. Just go to home page; you'll find it.

ETA IMO they're not on to abduction, so ...
That's the most intriguing thing: I'm firmly on the whitewash side of the belief fence and yet I cannot deny the logic of the counter argument: SY upgraded from a review to an investigation. Assuming that they are investigating charges that can be brought in England, and abduction charges cannot be, it therefore follows that they aren't actually investigating an abduction, despite outward appearances. What then, exactly, are they investigating?
A new post has come on saying PJ is applying to reopen..that has to be good news..I cant see them agreeing if the new evidence had been solely on an 'abduction' kind of theory?
I almost convimce myself that the Met aren't investigating an abduction then the PJ come out and say that they want to investigate exactly that. I give up!

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Re: Met boss defends Portuguese police

Post by plebgate on 23.10.13 22:19

I am going to be positive (for now) Andy B.

As some posters have pointed out, the Port. police said the parents were not persons of interest only day before they were made arguidos.

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Re: Met boss defends Portuguese police

Post by AndyB on 23.10.13 22:21

I hope you're right

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Re: Met boss defends Portuguese police

Post by plebgate on 23.10.13 22:24

We can only wait and see Andy B - the only niggle I have at the moment is the report in press that Mrs. wants to give evidence in Portugal as she will bring something to the court which will show Mr. A. lied in his book or words to that effect.

I can't see that happening because there is only more or less a month to go before she could be heard and even if they re-opened the case at break neck speed, there is no way any such evidence could be brought at that time imo.

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Re: Met boss defends Portuguese police

Post by thetruthbeknown on 23.10.13 22:30

Andy..They have said that is the basis of reopening..there has to be 'new' evidence presented to reopen a shelved case..and the smith-man abductor, is being used as the presented 'new' lead...where that leads to, is yet to be revealed winkwink

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Re: Met boss defends Portuguese police

Post by AndyB on 23.10.13 22:38

@thetruthbeknown wrote:Andy..They have said that is the basis of reopening..there has to be 'new' evidence presented to reopen a shelved case..and the smith-man abductor, is being used as the presented 'new' lead...where that leads to, is yet to be revealed winkwink
Which could just as easily be a dead paedo, although I have to admit its difficult to see why the PJ would conspire in a whitewash

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Re: Met boss defends Portuguese police

Post by ultimaThule on 23.10.13 23:22

@plebgate wrote:We can only wait and see Andy B - the only niggle I have at the moment is the report in press that Mrs. wants to give evidence in Portugal as she will bring something to the court which will show Mr. A. lied in his book or words to that effect.

I can't see that happening because there is only more or less a month to go before she could be heard and even if they re-opened the case at break neck speed, there is no way any such evidence could be brought at that time imo.
Are you referring to a report released tonight or in the last couple of days?

With regard to the trial, K&G are a busted flush and there's no way they can show Dr Amaral lied about them.  He's not like them and he has no need to lie because everything he's said in his book about them can be verified by the files.

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Re: Met boss defends Portuguese police

Post by MoonGoddess on 23.10.13 23:44

@AndyB wrote:
Châtelaine wrote:
@AndyB wrote:
Châtelaine wrote:I've been reading up on some CPS info. For people, who some time laying around, I can recommend having a look at it.
http://www.cps.gov.uk/legal/v_to_z/safeguarding_children_as_victims_and_witnesses/#a05

Interesting to see that at the time the U.K. reserved some rights:

The Council of Europe's 1959 convention provides at article 21 for the transfer of criminal proceedings to another state. The United Kingdom has a reservation to this article, reserving the right not to apply it. This does not prevent the UK from accepting a transfer from a state that has ratified the convention, nor does it prevent the UK from transferring proceedings to such a state. Many international instruments allow for the possibility of transfer but again, silence on the issue does not prevent it from being undertaken. A request pursuant to article 21 must be routed via UKCA who are likely to request a CPS cover letter setting out the position and formally requesting that the appropriate authority in the other state consider an investigation/prosecution regarding the transferred file.

For EU and Schengen Agreement states, article 6 of the 2000 MLA convention also references the possibility of transfer and explicitly cross-references article 21 of the 1959 convention. A request pursuant to article 6 can be made directly by the CPS to the appropriate authority in the requested state and need not be routed via UKCA.
I can't find the quoted text on the linked page. Is the link the right one?
***
I'm preparing dinner, so have to be brief. I may have drawn a link from a page I was reading, when posting. Just go to home page; you'll find it.

ETA IMO they're not on to abduction, so ...
That's the most intriguing thing: I'm firmly on the whitewash side of the belief fence and yet I cannot deny the logic of the counter argument: SY upgraded from a review to an investigation. Assuming that they are investigating charges that can be brought in England, and abduction charges cannot be, it therefore follows that they aren't actually investigating an abduction, despite outward appearances. What then, exactly, are they investigating?
I have to confess to being lost in the intricacies of what is going on, so I am sorry if this sound dumb.... but could SY be investigating 'perverting the course of justice' in relation to the regotary letters?

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Re: Met boss defends Portuguese police

Post by plebgate on 24.10.13 0:11

@ultimaThule wrote:
@plebgate wrote:We can only wait and see Andy B - the only niggle I have at the moment is the report in press that Mrs. wants to give evidence in Portugal as she will bring something to the court which will show Mr. A. lied in his book or words to that effect.

I can't see that happening because there is only more or less a month to go before she could be heard and even if they re-opened the case at break neck speed, there is no way any such evidence could be brought at that time imo.
Are you referring to a report released tonight or in the last couple of days?

With regard to the trial, K&G are a busted flush and there's no way they can show Dr Amaral lied about them.  He's not like them and he has no need to lie because everything he's said in his book about them can be verified by the files.
I think it was in one of the reports from the court, or if not there one of the newspapers a few weeks back.

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Re: Met boss defends Portuguese police

Post by AndyB on 24.10.13 8:04

@MoonGoddess wrote:
@AndyB wrote:
Châtelaine wrote:
@AndyB wrote:
Châtelaine wrote:I've been reading up on some CPS info. For people, who some time laying around, I can recommend having a look at it.
http://www.cps.gov.uk/legal/v_to_z/safeguarding_children_as_victims_and_witnesses/#a05

Interesting to see that at the time the U.K. reserved some rights:

The Council of Europe's 1959 convention provides at article 21 for the transfer of criminal proceedings to another state. The United Kingdom has a reservation to this article, reserving the right not to apply it. This does not prevent the UK from accepting a transfer from a state that has ratified the convention, nor does it prevent the UK from transferring proceedings to such a state. Many international instruments allow for the possibility of transfer but again, silence on the issue does not prevent it from being undertaken. A request pursuant to article 21 must be routed via UKCA who are likely to request a CPS cover letter setting out the position and formally requesting that the appropriate authority in the other state consider an investigation/prosecution regarding the transferred file.

For EU and Schengen Agreement states, article 6 of the 2000 MLA convention also references the possibility of transfer and explicitly cross-references article 21 of the 1959 convention. A request pursuant to article 6 can be made directly by the CPS to the appropriate authority in the requested state and need not be routed via UKCA.
I can't find the quoted text on the linked page. Is the link the right one?
***
I'm preparing dinner, so have to be brief. I may have drawn a link from a page I was reading, when posting. Just go to home page; you'll find it.

ETA IMO they're not on to abduction, so ...
That's the most intriguing thing: I'm firmly on the whitewash side of the belief fence and yet I cannot deny the logic of the counter argument: SY upgraded from a review to an investigation. Assuming that they are investigating charges that can be brought in England, and abduction charges cannot be, it therefore follows that they aren't actually investigating an abduction, despite outward appearances. What then, exactly, are they investigating?
I have to confess to being lost in the intricacies of what is going on, so I am sorry if this sound dumb.... but could SY be investigating 'perverting the course of justice' in relation to the regotary letters?
I don't know but I would've thought that if the course of justice has been perverted in the inteviews in England that it would be Portuguese justice as they were done as part of a Portuguese investigation. If that's right then I think it would be for the Portuguese authorities to bring charges

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Re: Met boss defends Portuguese police

Post by Guest on 24.10.13 8:27

The police are being deliberately ambiguous. Whitewash or no whitewash, you can cherry-pick from the information released and statements made by SY to back up your point of view.

I, like I expect everyone else, swing wildly between the two possibilities but I always come back to the same point - if this is a whitewash, why in the last two years, has no-one from SY stepped forward and declared clearly and unequivocally that the McCanns are innocent?

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Re: Met boss defends Portuguese police

Post by AndyB on 24.10.13 8:43

Poe wrote:I, like I expect everyone else, swing wildly between the two possibilities but I always come back to the same point - if this is a whitewash, why in the last two years, has no-one from SY stepped forward and declared clearly and unequivocally that the McCanns are innocent?
Hasnt AR done precisely that with "not persons of interest"?

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Re: Met boss defends Portuguese police

Post by MoonGoddess on 24.10.13 8:50

Thank You Andy B :)

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Re: Met boss defends Portuguese police

Post by susible on 24.10.13 8:51

@AndyB wrote:
Poe wrote:I, like I expect everyone else, swing wildly between the two possibilities but I always come back to the same point - if this is a whitewash, why in the last two years, has no-one from SY stepped forward and declared clearly and unequivocally that the McCanns are innocent?
Hasnt AR done precisely that with "not persons of interest"?
No, the only way the Mc's can be declared clearly and unequivocally innocent is if someone else has been arrested, tried and found guilty of removing Madeleine McCann from apartment 5A on 3rd May 2007 and of course to do that they would need evidence, which of course there is no evidence of a stranger abduction.

There is evidence of a "simulated abduction" and I believe that is how SY are approaching it, someone did remove Madeleine McCann from the apartment, it's proving who did it that is the issue...lets face it, although we all strongly believe the Mc's are involved, we have absolutely no idea who removed her from the apartment either imo

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Re: Met boss defends Portuguese police

Post by Guest on 24.10.13 8:58

@AndyB wrote:
Poe wrote:I, like I expect everyone else, swing wildly between the two possibilities but I always come back to the same point - if this is a whitewash, why in the last two years, has no-one from SY stepped forward and declared clearly and unequivocally that the McCanns are innocent?
Hasnt AR done precisely that with "not persons of interest"?
No.

All he's saying is, at that moment in time, the investigation was not focused on the McCanns.

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Re: Met boss defends Portuguese police

Post by pennylane on 24.10.13 9:31

@AndyB wrote:
Poe wrote:I, like I expect everyone else, swing wildly between the two possibilities but I always come back to the same point - if this is a whitewash, why in the last two years, has no-one from SY stepped forward and declared clearly and unequivocally that the McCanns are innocent?
Hasnt AR done precisely that with "not persons of interest"?
Yes he has indeed!  Reinforced by the balloon releasing Commissioner Bernard Hogan-Howe, speaking only yesterday of the 'parents torture in not knowing.' Yes 'Sir!'  And the ever so, ever so, esteemed Lord Leveson's multiple referrals to 'the abduction' during that farce of an Inquiry of his; plus Jim Gamble's much flaunted complete and utter faith in Team McCann.  Then, as you say, good old DCI Andy Redwood of Operation Grange fame, who cannot seem to string a single sentence together without insisting Madeleine was taken by a stranger and that the McCann and friends are innocent.

Methinks the gruesome twosome's innocence is protested far, far, too much by the members of the British Establishment! I fear great efforts are underway to belittle the original investigation, and the damaging CSI blood and cadaver dog alerts to all things McCann, and to isolate the opinion of  Goncalo Amaral before he wins the Libel case.

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Re: Met boss defends Portuguese police

Post by susible on 24.10.13 9:39

@pennylane wrote:
@AndyB wrote:
Poe wrote:I, like I expect everyone else, swing wildly between the two possibilities but I always come back to the same point - if this is a whitewash, why in the last two years, has no-one from SY stepped forward and declared clearly and unequivocally that the McCanns are innocent?
Hasnt AR done precisely that with "not persons of interest"?
Yes he has indeed!  Reinforced by the balloon releasing Commissioner Bernard Hogan-Howe, speaking only yesterday of the 'parents torture in not knowing.' Yes 'Sir!'  And the ever so, ever so, esteemed Lord Leveson's multiple referrals to 'the abduction' during that farce of an Inquiry of his; plus Jim Gamble's much flaunted complete and utter faith in Team McCann.  Then, as you say, good old DCI Andy Redwood of Operation Grange fame, who cannot seem to string a single sentence together without insisting Madeleine was taken by a stranger and that the McCann and friends are innocent.

Methinks the gruesome twosome's innocence is protested far, far, too much by the members of the British Establishment! I fear great efforts are underway to belittle the original investigation, and the damaging CSI blood and cadaver dog alerts to all things McCann, and to isolate the opinion of  Goncalo Amaral,
No, I totally disagree, there would have been no need for a review/investigation in that case, the McCanns would just have disappeared after they were de-arguidoed and everyone would have completely forgotten about them.  It's the McCanns desire to be totally exonerated (and make money) that has kept the story in the media and as Andy Redwood said, this has gone on for far too long, it needs to come to a conclusion and if that conclusion was simply to clear the McCanns, that would have been done a long time ago imo

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Re: Met boss defends Portuguese police

Post by pennylane on 24.10.13 9:46

@susible wrote:
@pennylane wrote:
@AndyB wrote:
Poe wrote:I, like I expect everyone else, swing wildly between the two possibilities but I always come back to the same point - if this is a whitewash, why in the last two years, has no-one from SY stepped forward and declared clearly and unequivocally that the McCanns are innocent?
Hasnt AR done precisely that with "not persons of interest"?
Yes he has indeed!  Reinforced by the balloon releasing Commissioner Bernard Hogan-Howe, speaking only yesterday of the 'parents torture in not knowing.' Yes 'Sir!'  And the ever so, ever so, esteemed Lord Leveson's multiple referrals to 'the abduction' during that farce of an Inquiry of his; plus Jim Gamble's much flaunted complete and utter faith in Team McCann.  Then, as you say, good old DCI Andy Redwood of Operation Grange fame, who cannot seem to string a single sentence together without insisting Madeleine was taken by a stranger and that the McCann and friends are innocent.

Methinks the gruesome twosome's innocence is protested far, far, too much by the members of the British Establishment! I fear great efforts are underway to belittle the original investigation, and the damaging CSI blood and cadaver dog alerts to all things McCann, and to isolate the opinion of  Goncalo Amaral,
No, I totally disagree, there would have been no need for a review/investigation in that case, the McCanns would just have disappeared after they were de-arguidoed and everyone would have completely forgotten about them.  It's the McCanns desire to be totally exonerated (and make money) that has kept the story in the media and as Andy Redwood said, this has gone on for far too long, it needs to come to a conclusion and if that conclusion was simply to clear the McCanns, that would have been done a long time ago imo
We agree on one thing, and that is that the McCann's want to be totally exonerated.  The original conclusions and the damaging evidence that points their way is always bubbling ominously beneath the surface.  They tried desperately to shut Goncalo Amaral up, and failed miserably. They tried desperately to improve their reputations and failed miserably there too.   This prevents them from moving on, as they are constantly looking over their shoulder - and have to keep making money to pay their teams to keep the truth suppressed.  They were unable to 'disappear' for these reasons.  I believe Andy Redwood is in the process of cleaning up their mess so they can move on.  And boy what a mess it is.

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Re: Met boss defends Portuguese police

Post by StraightThinking on 24.10.13 9:53

@susible wrote:as Andy Redwood said, this has gone on for far too long
This was AR's punchy headline remark and it tells me two things:
1) that the case will be solved, and it will be solved correctly
2) he is pretty certain what happened, but now has to be able to prove it in court
By saying it's gone on far too long, he has put pressure on himself to crack it. He wouldn't have done that unless he was already 95 per cent there

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Re: Met boss defends Portuguese police

Post by MissDaisy on 24.10.13 9:58

AR said "this has gone on for far too long". Those are exactly the type of words someone would use when talking about a charade that they are tired of. I really do believe this will be wrapped up soon and that he wants to get to the truth.

MissDaisy

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