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Phenergan Exlixir

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Phenergan Exlixir

Post by plebgate on 08.04.13 8:21

Would you give your child Phenergan Elixir to "knock them out" on a plane journey?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-2305529/Why-I-drug-children-airplanes-We-know-hell-bawling-toddlers-flights-But-mums-controversial-solution-.html

This lady does and note in the article she says that it can have the opposite effect of knocking children out i.e. making them hyper. This apparently happened to one of her children and the child was hyper for many hours on a long haul flight. She decided that she would administer a second dose and the child finally fell asleep but when the plane came to land the child was out for the count and could not be roused. The pilot had to carry the child out of the plane over his shoulder.

Sometimes I cannot believe what I am reading.

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Re: Phenergan Exlixir

Post by sami on 08.04.13 9:44

I have mentioned this product before and I would be surprised if it were not included as a standard product along with calpol in the McCanns medicine bag. It is widely used for treatment of alergies. If the children were given something to ensure they slept, this would be number one on my list od suspects, not calpol.

I know many parents who use it during flying, I am not a bit surprised by the article, sadly.

It was prescribed for my then 2year old by my gp for treatment of an allergy and I was given a stark warning by him to watch my child closely. Given his age and relatively wobbly walking ability, the gp specifically mentioned the risk of him falling and hitting his head. As it turned out, he went nuts after taking it and a different product was prescribed.

My experience of it is one dose is enough to tell you whether it will have a sedative effect or opposite effect, so you know if it is the product for you. Not only is it strong immediately after taking it, I have witnessed people very drowsy for quite long periods after waking from a nights sleep.

Using whilst flying has been happening for years and it makes me so cross. With three kids under 3 I was a reluctant flyer and avoided that mode of travel, opting for other holidays that did not involve that transport mode. Phenergan was often suggested to me as a solution to stress free travel. Eh no thanks. We have always had a family holiday without the need to drug the kids to get there.

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Re: Phenergan Exlixir

Post by plebgate on 08.04.13 11:06

I could not get over the fact that she admitted to giving 2 doses. One made the child hyper the other knocked the child out. Is that cruelty to a child? If not, imo it should be.

If you can't handle 3 or 4 children without knocking them out, don't have them.

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Re: Phenergan Exlixir

Post by Guest on 08.04.13 11:29

We had a dog, which needed a small operation.

The Vet gave it a sedative, which did not have any effect;
The Vet doubled the dose: the dog became alert and agressive to the Vet;
The Vet tied it to a chair and gave it another dose, then untied the dog.
The dog flew at the Vet's throat, then at the throat of his assistant.

The Vet and the assistant then jumped on the dog together, tying a leash around its neck.
The dog still hit & bit out at them;
The Vet then pulled up the leash, throttlling the dog until it went quiet.

Then, the operation was performed.

The dog was subsequently out for 48 hours.

The Vet was so embarrassed by the whole affair he waived his wages.

And no, to those animal lovers out there, this was not in little Belgium; it was in a very expensive private clinic near Monaco.

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Re: Phenergan Exlixir

Post by Miraflores on 08.04.13 11:53

I thought you were going to say that they killed the dog!

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Re: Phenergan Exlixir

Post by Guest on 08.04.13 15:34

Nah,

Maybe they very much wanted to, but they didn't.

They were professionals.

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Re: Phenergan Exlixir

Post by Lance De Boils on 08.04.13 16:19

Promethazine, I agree, would have been more likely used as a sedative than Calpol. It's also used for travel sickness, as well as an antihistamine. In a group with several children, it is perfectly feasible that at least one of those children (or even an adult) might suffer from travel sickness. In a group (of medics, especially), travelling abroad with children I would guess it quite likely that at least one family carried such a product with them - even if just as an emergency antihistamine.
Did anyone ever ask or mention whether anyone in the group suffered from any known allergies / travel sickness?

[As this has now gone onto a Maddie topic, should we move this thread?]

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Re: Phenergan Exlixir

Post by Guest on 08.04.13 18:00

"When they travelled on holiday to Portugal they brought several
medicines, namely Calpol, Nurofen, for fevers and pains, both for adults
and children, Losec for gastric problems that he occasionally suffers
from, and an anti-histamine called Terfenadine, for hay fever. He did
not give any of these medicines or any others to the children while on
holiday in Portugal."

Arguido questioning Gerry McCann, September 7, 2007.

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Re: Phenergan Exlixir

Post by Snifferdog on 08.04.13 18:42

Imo still not a good enough reason for the coverup. (If Maddie had died whilst she was drugged purposely or accidently). Such circumstances are not any worse or better than the mccanns fabled abduction because it points in both cases to the neglect of the parents for which they were not punished anyway.

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Re: Phenergan Exlixir

Post by Guest on 08.04.13 21:30

You may be right. And I'm not saying that this is the case. I was just replying to the previous comment.

But, if true, it would point to doctors knowingly taking risks ... Histamines are very unpredictable medicines.

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Re: Phenergan Exlixir

Post by Snifferdog on 08.04.13 21:55

Châtelaine wrote:You may be right. And I'm not saying that this is the case. I was just replying to the previous comment.

But, if true, it would point to doctors knowingly taking risks ... Histamines are very unpredictable medicines.
.
Hi Chatelaine smilie Yes I do agree that doctors do knowingly take risks. I. Did not mean to aim my post at you. Just meant it in a general kind of way.

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Re: Phenergan Exlixir

Post by russiandoll on 09.04.13 13:41

Châtelaine wrote:"When they travelled on holiday to Portugal they brought several
medicines, namely Calpol, Nurofen, for fevers and pains, both for adults
and children, Losec for gastric problems that he occasionally suffers
from, and an anti-histamine called Terfenadine, for hay fever. He did
not give any of these medicines or any others to the children while on
holiday in Portugal."

Arguido questioning Gerry McCann, September 7, 2007.


This drug has not been available even on prescription for some years now in UK, due to its unpredictable effects on hearth rhythm. will double check dates, think off market USA late 90's, so UK would not I imagine be much later than that.
btw, it was a non seadtive antihistamine as far as I can recall. Better hay- fever drugs available I think, a cardiologist like Gerry would have been especially knowledgeable about its effects

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Re: Phenergan Exlixir

Post by Miraflores on 09.04.13 14:39

....a non seadtive antihistamine as far as I can recall.

That was its USP as far as I recall, when I had it prescribed once. Piriton was well known for making you drowsy but on the other hand, it did work whereas, in my experience, Terfenadine didn't.

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Re: Phenergan Exlixir

Post by Guest on 09.04.13 18:47

Please do google 'Terfenadine'.

Quote:
It was superseded by Fenofexadine in the 1990',, due to the risk of a particular type of disruption of the electrical rhythm of the heart.

Quote:
Cardiotoxic

Quote:
(risk) especially cardiac arrhythmia caused by QT interval prolongation.

Now, the holiday being end of April, beginning of May, in the very south of Portugal, would that be a time a/o place to expect an outburst of pollen?

Why then bring a medicine that had been phased out since a decade, because of its toxicity, especially for the heart?

Do we have a cardiologist on the Forum who could shed some light on this?

Where did they GET the drug in the first place, if it went out in the '90's?

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Re: Phenergan Exlixir

Post by Guest on 09.04.13 18:51

@Portia wrote:Do we have a cardiologist on the Forum who could shed some light on this?

Step forward Gerry, we know you're here

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Re: Phenergan Exlixir

Post by Guest on 09.04.13 19:11

And, while we're at it: why were Maddie's medical records never made available?

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Re: Phenergan Exlixir

Post by Guest on 09.04.13 22:19

@admin wrote:
@Portia wrote:Do we have a cardiologist on the Forum who could shed some light on this?

Step forward Gerry, we know you're here
***

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Re: Phenergan Exlixir

Post by Smokeandmirrors on 09.01.14 8:00

Of course phenergan is also interesting in that it causes increased light sensitivity in the patient meaning they are more susceptible to sunburn. Also breathing difficulties in children under two, so I suspect one would have to check the breathing regularly especially if the child(ren) were in a deep sleep.

It can also cause problems for children who do not have enough calcium in their blood, but if you give your child(ren) milk at bedtime that might not be a concern

A list of side effects c & p below, interestingly, one of them is easy bruising

Promethazine side effects

Get emergency medical help if you have any of these signs of an allergic reaction: hives; difficulty breathing; swelling of your face, lips, tongue, or throat. Stop using promethazine and call your doctor at once if you have any of these serious side effects:

twitching, or uncontrollable movements of your eyes, lips, tongue, face, arms, or legs;
tremor (uncontrolled shaking), drooling, trouble swallowing, problems with balance or walking;
feeling restless, jittery, or agitated;
high fever, stiff muscles, confusion, sweating, fast or uneven heartbeats, rapid breathing;
feeling like you might pass out;
seizure (convulsions);
pale skin, easy bruising or bleeding, fever, sore throat, flu symptoms;
decreased night vision, tunnel vision, watery eyes, increased sensitivity to light;
hallucinations, agitation;
nausea and stomach pain, skin rash, and jaundice (yellowing of the skin or eyes);
urinating less than usual or not at all;
joint pain or swelling with fever, swollen glands, muscle aches, chest pain, vomiting, unusual thoughts or behavior, and patchy skin color; or
slow heart rate, weak pulse, fainting, slow breathing (breathing may stop).
Less serious promethazine side effects may include:

dizziness, drowsiness, anxiety;
blurred vision, dry mouth, stuffy nose;
ringing in your ears;
weight gain, swelling in your hands or feet;
impotence, trouble having an orgasm; or
constipation.
This is not a complete list of side effects and others may occur. Tell your doctor about any unusual or bothersome side effect. You may report side effects to FDA at 1-800-FDA-1088.

See also: Promethazine side effects (in more detail)




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Re: Phenergan Exlixir

Post by suep on 09.01.14 15:23

Melatonin is another medicine that appears to be used to encourage small children to sleep. Its caught on in the US and some paediatricians seem to be concerned at its widespread use according to this report in the Wall Street Journal,

http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424127887324637504578567670426190246

You can buy it online in the UK in the form of strawberry flavoured tablets although the 10mg dose on offer here seems excessive for little ones.

http://www.biovea.com/uk/product_detail.aspx?PID=21521&OS=204&KW=melatonin&cp=4&NAME=MELATONIN-10mg-Fast-Dissolve-60-Strawberry-Flavoured-Tablets-EV

However, according to www.patient.co.uk website there are problems that should make any parent think twice before using it on their toddler,

"Melatonin has been widely used but has been implicated in causing seizures and there is no clear guidance on the required dosage.[14] The BNFC recommended that it be prescribed in primary care only as part of a shared-care arrangement with a specialist. Consensus evidence-based guidelines are urgently needed."

The sort of thing any self respecting anaesthetist should know, don't you think?






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Re: Phenergan Exlixir

Post by Guest on 09.01.14 16:17

AFAIK melatonin is a hormone, produced from serotonin in the dark. A reason for parents [doctors] to prefer and try to have their children sleep in [almost] dark.

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Re: Phenergan Exlixir

Post by suep on 09.01.14 20:23

That's right Chatelaine. Its produced naturally in the body as a response to darkness. I have a friend who's totally blind and has problems with excessive sleepiness, especially in the winter. Even though light reaches his retina, because his optic nerve doesn't register it his pituitary gland produces too much of the hormone melatonin which makes him sleepy.
It seems melatonin is being marketed and sold by some 'health product' companies as a 'natural' sleep aid and parents are giving it to small children under the illusion that it must be safe because its 'natural'.

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Re: Phenergan Exlixir

Post by tigger on 09.01.14 20:55

i use melatonin often - one can buy them here over the counter in boxes of 500 at a time.
Recommended dose is 10 tablets of .1 milligram. I generally take 3, less than a third of the dose. The winter isn't too bad but I can't sleep when it's light. Summertime I need them most.

I wouldn't think they'd keep anyone asleep. It's supposed to work as a sleep enabler. I can be woken by all the usual things, noises, the cat jumping on the bed so not out for the count. I don't know about the full dose though and I think it's sold as very heavy doses in the UK, 2 to 4 mg. per tablet. I wouldn't take those ever.


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Re: Phenergan Exlixir

Post by aiyoyo on 09.01.14 21:03

@Portia wrote:And, while we're at it: why were Maddie's medical records never made available?


Could be to do with concealment of information that they did not want the PJ to know.

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Re: Phenergan Exlixir

Post by Smokeandmirrors on 09.01.14 22:38

@aiyoyo wrote:
@Portia wrote:And, while we're at it: why were Maddie's medical records never made available?


Could be to do with concealment of information that they did not want the PJ to know.

But very interesting to know what though. Interesting to know if the Ward of Court status would make it easier or harder for the PJ to get the records, or indeed if Scotland Yard have seen them.

As far as we believe they were concealed, but subsequently they may have been acquired by Scotland Yard. If that were the case, I don't think they could have been refused without looking shifty.

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Re: Phenergan Exlixir

Post by Guest on 09.01.14 23:16

Promethazine or phenergan is sometimes prescribed short term for sleep disorders in children. (Ideally on the advice of a paediatrician).
Used in combination with a good bedtime routine and things like star charts.

Something that has puzzled me is how did the investigators who produced the "suppressed report" know that Maddies sleeping problems were greater than the parents had admitted?
Have they had sight of the medical records and seen a prescription?
If she is a ward of court the permission to see her medical records would come from the court and not her parents.

But if it had been prescribed it wouldn't be a reason for concealment. Only if she was given a toxic dose, or something else to make her sleep too.







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