The Complete Mystery of Madeleine McCann™
Hi,

A very warm welcome to The Complete Mystery of Madeleine McCann™ forum.

Please log in, or register to view all the forums, then settle in and start chatting with us!

Enjoy your day,

Jill Havern
Forum owner

Hillsborough: Families Braced For Revelations

Page 1 of 7 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7  Next

View previous topic View next topic Go down

Hillsborough: Families Braced For Revelations

Post by sharonl on 12.09.12 8:18

Hillsborough: Families Braced For Revelations


Victims' families believe a report by an independent panel into the tragedy will bring them closer to the truth of what happened.


5:52am UK, Wednesday 12 September 2012



Video: Families Expect PM To Offer Apologies
Enlarge





  • Liverpool fans try to drag fellow supporters up to stop them being crushed. Ninety six Liverpool followers died on the tragic day in 1989.

    1 of 5


  • Fans are treated on the pitch after the FA Cup semi-final against Nottingham Forest was stopped.

    2 of 5


  • Injured fans were moved on advertising boards which were used as makeshift stretchers as they waited to be taken to hospital.

    3 of 5


  • Families of the victims have been campaigning for justice ever since the incident on April 15 in Sheffield.

    4 of 5


  • This Liverpool fan sits alone where just hours before dozens of his fellow supporters were crushed to death.

    5 of 5
PreviousNext
Gallery: Hillsborough: Images Of Tragic Day




By Mike McCarthy, North of England Correspondent

Families of the victims of the Hillsborough disaster believe a new report will confirm their long-held suspicions of a cover-up.

They expect the Prime Minister to apologise and say the report could give them grounds to overturn accidental death verdicts on the 96 victims.

The report has been compiled by an independent panel of experts appointed to ensure maximum disclosure of documents relating to the tragedy, which happened during an FA Cup semi-final tie between Liverpool and Nottingham Forest at Hillsborough Stadium in Sheffield on April 15, 1989.

Their findings are expected to shed more light on mistakes made by South Yorkshire Police on the day and to highlight any documented evidence of attempts to twist the truth.
Victims' families will see the report before it is officially published
Trevor Hicks, whose two daughters died, said that he expected "an unreserved apology" from David Cameron if the Hillsborough Independent Panel's report reveals a political "dirty tricks campaign".

Some bereaved families believe that the then Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher was misled about what led supporters to be crushed to death.

They say that in the days following the event she was briefed by senior police officers who wanted to pass blame onto drunken Liverpool fans.

Mr Hicks said: "The Conservative Home Secretary Theresa May and the Government have given their full support to the process of the independent panel but Mr Cameron should apologise on behalf of the Conservative government of the time.
Fans help carry an injured supporter on a stretcher during the disaster
"Questions have been asked about whether it was convenient for them to make sure the police didn't carry the blame. It was convenient for them to blame the fans."

Margaret Aspinall, chairwoman of the Hillsborough Families' Support Group, lost her 18-year-old son James at Hillsborough.

She told Sky News she was determined the inquest verdict of accidental death for the all victims should be overturned.

"People still do not know the full truth of Hillsborough. Many questions remain unanswered," she said.

"I have refused to accept my son's death certificate. How can you find in an official inquiry that the police made a series of blunders that led to the disaster and that they then lied about what had happened - only to get a verdict that all 96 died accidentally?"

The families' group has hired high profile lawyers to challenge the inquest verdicts. Its members believe the independent panel's report will provide a foundation with which to challenge the verdicts.
Tributes are paid at Anfield's Hillsborough memorial
One of the survivors, Damian Kavanagh, says he suffered years of trauma following the event. He managed to pull himself free from the crush of fans on the terraces by climbing over bodies.

He said: "Most people do know the truth but for such an important event, such a traumatic event - it's important that the world knows the truth.

"The authorities, in a bid to cover their tracks, were able to use the media to make sure that the message was out there that Hillsborough was in part due to hooliganism.

"That's lies. So for the sake of justice and closure, for lessons to be learnt from mistakes that were made it's important that the whole truth comes out."
Fans have been fighting for justice ever since the tragedy
Mr Cameron is to express regret over the Hillsborough mistakes but it is not yet known whether it will amount to a full apology.

Government sources say the precise wording of his statement cannot be decided until he has seen the independent panel report.

The panel was set up in 2010 by the previous Labour government. It includes nine experts from the world of law, policing, medicine and the media, and is chaired by James Jones, the Bishop of Liverpool.

Their investigation covered 400,000 documents which will be summarised in a 400 page report.

The papers are from 80 different organisations including the Government, South Yorkshire Police and Sheffield City Council.

Families of the fans who died will see the report before it is officially published

____________________
"WE ARE ALL IN THIS TOGETHER" - Rebekah Brooks to David Cameron

sharonl


Posts : 3565
Reputation : 418
Join date : 2009-12-29

View user profile http://www.cold2012.org.uk

Back to top Go down

Re: Hillsborough: Families Braced For Revelations

Post by PeterMac on 12.09.12 8:39

They may not like some of what is said.

____________________


PeterMac
Researcher

Posts : 10170
Reputation : 143
Join date : 2010-12-06

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Hillsborough: Families Braced For Revelations

Post by russiandoll on 12.09.12 8:46

can you elaborate please PM?

I read a wonderful book by Anne Williams, mother of teenager Kevin who died and who was told by a policewoman that Kevin had spoken after the coroner's cut-off time of 3.15, the time the coroner stated all victims would have been dead.
It is a moving account of her years of work with other victims' families to get an account of the truth of what happened that day.
There was an interesting documentary on a few days ago, broadcast in anticipation of today's revelations. The journalist from the Sun newspaper who wrote a front page piece about the tragedy was incensed that Kelvin Mackenzie inserted the title THE TRUTH above what he wrote. While the journalist's writing was inflammatory and I think he might have been dishonest stating that he wrote about allegations, not facts, Mackenzie's behaviour was disgraceful and I do not know why Sky News now invite him to discuss the newspapers.
On the same programme a former senior pathologist described Kevin's injuries and stated that had an artificial airway been made for him, he might have survived. The driver of an ambulance [nearly all of the 40+ which were called stayed outside the ground] was devastated even now describing how he was not allowed to give evidence because what he witnessed [ live victims] was after 3.15.
I do not understand how there were 96 accidents all occurring at the same time and I hope that the verdicts are overturned and new inquests ordered.
I am here because I want justice for a vanished little girl. I also see the injustice of what happened at Hillsborough............
time for accountability.

____________________



             The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie — deliberate,
contrived and dishonest — but the myth — persistent, persuasive and
unrealistic.
~John F. Kennedy


russiandoll

Posts : 3942
Reputation : 7
Join date : 2011-09-11

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Hillsborough: Families Braced For Revelations

Post by PeterMac on 12.09.12 8:56

Not yet. I was a Match Commander for 10 years at Forest and County, having learned my trade in the 70s in the days of open terraces and the regular crushing forward by the yobs at the back. We regularly had to pull children out over the wall at the front of the east stand, and send them for medical attention.
Then came the pitch invasions, then came the fencing. All reactive measures.
At Bramshill on my course we were lectured at length by the two officers who had prepared the material for the Taylor enquiry.
If what they said was correct, there are some unpleasant revelations in store.

____________________


PeterMac
Researcher

Posts : 10170
Reputation : 143
Join date : 2010-12-06

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Hillsborough: Families Braced For Revelations

Post by russiandoll on 12.09.12 9:16

I understand, let's wait for what is revealed later. It is indisputable though imo that the design of the pens was a disaster waiting to happen, they were designed with the top section pointing back towards the stand so that climbing out would be very difficult.
I read that on the continent the stands had sliding gates at the front which opened automatically when a certain level of pressure was reached, avoiding the disastrous situation which occurred 23 years ago in the UK.


____________________



             The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie — deliberate,
contrived and dishonest — but the myth — persistent, persuasive and
unrealistic.
~John F. Kennedy


russiandoll

Posts : 3942
Reputation : 7
Join date : 2011-09-11

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Hillsborough: Families Braced For Revelations

Post by PeterMac on 12.09.12 9:35

1902 - Ibrox Park, Glasgow - 25 are killed and 517 injured when the West Stand collapses during an international between England and Scotland. The game ends in a 1-1 draw but is later erased from official records.
1946 - Burnden Park, Bolton - 33 die and 500 are injured when a wall collapses during a cup tie between Bolton and Stoke.
1955 - Santiago, Chile - Six people died when 70,000 tried to jam into the stadium for the finals of the South American soccer tournament. Argentina beat Chile 1-0.
1964 - Lima, Peru - More than 300 fans die in a riot during an Olympic qualifying match between Argentina and Peru.
1967 - Turkey - A disallowed goal in a Turkish game provokes a riot in which 41 die and 600 are hurt.
1968 - Buenos Aires, Argentina - 74 die after a match between River Plate and Boca Juniors when fans, trying to escape burning newspaper being thrown down from an upper tier, rush towards a gate pushed shut by fans on the other side, unaware of them.
1971 - Ibrox Park, Glasgow (AGAIN !) - 66 people die in a crowd crush near the end of a match between Celtic and Rangers. The incident occurs when fans leaving the stadium are met by a group trying to return after hearing that Rangers had scored an equaliser.
1971 - Cairo, Egypt - Crowds attempting to enter a match at Zamalek Stadium break down barriers and a wall, leading to 48 deaths and 50 injuries.
1981 - Piraeus, Greece - 24 people die in a stampede as fans rush to leave the ground.
1982 - Moscow, USSR - Up to 340 people are crushed to death when fans leaving the stadium try to re-enter the stands after a last-minute goal in a UEFA Cup tie between Moscow Spartak and Dutch side Haarlem at the Luzhniki stadium, according to Sovietsky Sport. The government newspaper Izvestia puts the death toll at 66.
1982 - Cali, Colombia - 24 people die and 250 are hurt when drunken fans provoke a stampede at a match.
1982 - Algiers, Algeria - A concrete roof at a stadium collapses, killing 10 spectators.
1985 - Valley Parade, Bradford - A fire, which started in rubbish underneath a stand, kills 56 fans.
1985 - Brussels, Belgium - 39 fans, mostly Italians, die in rioting before the European Cup final between Liverpool and Juventus at the Heysel Stadium.
1988 - Kathmandu, Nepal - A stampede towards locked exits in a hailstorm at Nepal's national soccer stadium produces the country's worst civilian disaster when 70 fans are killed.
1989 - Hillsborough, Sheffield - 96 people are killed and at least 200 injured in Britain's worst sports disaster after a crowd surge crushes packed fans against barriers at the FA Cup semi-final between Liverpool and Nottingham Forest.
1992 - Bastia, France - At least eight people are killed and 400 injured when a crowded temporary stand collapses at a match between Bastia and Marseille.
1996 - Lusaka, Zambia - Nine soccer fans were crushed to death and 78 others injured during a stampede following Zambia's victory over Sudan in a World Cup qualifying game.
1996 - Guatemala City, Guatemala - 84 people died and about 150 others were injured during a stampede at a stadium before a World Cup qualifying match between Guatemala and Costa Rica.
1997 - Lagos, Nigeria - Five fans were crushed to death and more than a dozen were hospitalised when, following Nigeria's 2-1 World Cup qualifying victory over Egypt, the crowd of 40,000 head for exits only to find three of the five main gates locked.
2000 - Monrovia, Liberia - Three people suffocated to death and others were injured as thousands of fans forced their way into an overcrowded stadium for a World Cup qualifier between Liberia and Chad.
2000 - Harare, Zimbabwe - 13 fans died after police fired tear gas into a crowd estimated at 50,000 to quell growing unruliness. The fans were killed in the stampede exiting the stadium.
2001 - Johannesburg, South Africa - At least 43 people were killed, including two children, and 155 injured during a league match between Kaiser Chiefs and Orlando Pirates at an overcrowded soccer stadium. People outside tried to push into Ellis Park stadium and were trapped against barbed wire. Police had earlier fired tear gas at people stampeding outside the stadium.

____________________


PeterMac
Researcher

Posts : 10170
Reputation : 143
Join date : 2010-12-06

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Hillsborough: Families Braced For Revelations

Post by russiandoll on 12.09.12 13:18

At last, the truth and how harrowing for the families. 23 years to arrive at this point, a matter of shame.
I would like to express my admiration and respect for those who have campaigned for justice for all these years.
164 doctored statements, a conspiracy by a police force.
I hope that Sky demand an apology from Kelvin Mackenzie for what was published in his newspaper, otherwise he should not be allowed on their sofa in future.
Self-pity city is what Liverpool was called.
Disgusting.

____________________



             The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie — deliberate,
contrived and dishonest — but the myth — persistent, persuasive and
unrealistic.
~John F. Kennedy


russiandoll

Posts : 3942
Reputation : 7
Join date : 2011-09-11

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Full report available

Post by Ross on 12.09.12 14:19

The full report is available here.

____________________
"Believe nothing, no matter where you heard it, no matter who has said it, not even if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense."

Buddha

Ross

Posts : 205
Reputation : 2
Join date : 2011-12-21

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Hillsborough: Families Braced For Revelations

Post by tigger on 12.09.12 15:51

I'm not making this up:
I was in a hotel in Wales, switched on TV in afternoon, I saw the Bradford disaster and actually thought it was serious before the reporter did.
I was staying in a B and B - saw the Herald of Free Enterprise disaster in the morning - TV in breakfast room.
I was in hospital for major back surgery - had TV in the room, saw Hilsborough disaster.
I was in hospital again, Dunblade shooting.

Basically, I never watched TV, on the few occasions I did, disasters were being broadcast as they happened.

Another instance, having dinner with friends in London, who had a TV in the dining room, Tianaman Square happening, we are eating and saying how sad it is.
On all occasions, I switched off. (except the B & B)
No better illustration of how wrong this is imo.

Disasters happen all the time all over the world. We are told by the media which ones to 'emote' over. To see a disaster happen live whilst you have your evening meal - no thanks. I would never stop at a road accident, unless it's clear that something needs to be done. I send a blessing to those in need and move on.

The East Midlands flight which crashed on the M6? I think, years ago. People took their children to see it as an outing.

TV has made us spectators of life and death in real time. Spectators, not participants. Since I don't like to see people dying for my entertainment, I have to switch off.

I think the police in Hillsborough are to blame for the wrong decisions and for the cover up, but not for killing people intentionally.

____________________
Lasciate ogni speranza, voi ch'entrate.

tigger

Posts : 8112
Reputation : 24
Join date : 2011-07-20

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Hillsborough: Families Braced For Revelations

Post by tigger on 12.09.12 16:56

From the Daily Mail today:
Incredibly blood samples were taken from the dead, including children, to try to prove that they were drunk and had caused the disaster.
An attempt was made to 'impugn the reputations of the deceased by carrying out Police National Computer checks on those with a non-zero alcohol level,' Mr Cameron revealed.
This misinformation led to an infamous Sun front page, headlined The Truth, that falsely reported that fans were drunken, violent and stole from corpses.


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2201898/Hillsborough-disaster-police-changed-junior-officers-evidence-force-better-light.html#ixzz26GrsbkOZ

I am astounded to find how stupid this was: even if alcohol abuse had been found in the victims, how would that prove it was their own fault they died? For all we know it could have been the very much alive fans at the back who were drunk. Were any of the 'survivors' tested for alcohol? I think not.
What an idiotic idea to shift the blame on the dead. I would think it's highly unlikely that fans who arrived late and pushed in were stone-cold sober.
It would be a first.
I'd be looking at the survivors. The latecomers, but I expect they'd have gone by that time.

I'm getting rather tired of heads of state apologising for whatever. Why should Cameron apologise for this? I'm waiting for a proper apology for not winning the battle of Hastings pretty soon.

(interesting to see how the Sun jumped on the bandwagon and elaborated at will - where have we seen that before? Is the Sun going to apologise? They certainly should.)


____________________
Lasciate ogni speranza, voi ch'entrate.

tigger

Posts : 8112
Reputation : 24
Join date : 2011-07-20

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Hillsborough: Families Braced For Revelations

Post by russiandoll on 12.09.12 17:02

Nobody claimed the police acted with intent on the day. The football stadium was unsafe, did not have a certificate. The city council in Sheffield have questions to answer. The people at the top of organised football who organised the match in this stadium should not have done so.
The top echelons of S Yorks police orchestrated a false narrative of events.
Police officers who gave signed statements had them changed without their permission so they had a more positive slant, some had paragraphs not just amended but deleted.
There were instructions sent out that the word chaotic was not to be used. "Chaos" and" fear" were deleted from the statements.
Blood samples were taken from the deceased, including minors, for alcohol levels to be checked.
A senior doctor on the panel today said that he did not know how many could ultimately be saved, but there was the potential for 41 of the 96 to have lived until after the 3.15 cut-off.
This episode is shocking in the depth and extent of the cover-up, I am sure there are numerous junior officers and ambulance staff who were looking for leadership that day and never received it. It is the people at the top who have covered their backs and heaped more grief on bereaved families. Some survivors have committed suicide, unable to handle the trauma of what they witnessed and have no doubt felt survivor guilt.
There now has to be scrutiny by legal people to ascertain what crimes have been committed.
Perversion of the course of justice for one.
And it is a flawed argument if anyone decided that 23 years is too late for justice.......whose fault is it that it has taken 23 years to get to the truth?
I have a real interest in this tragedy because I know 3 families affected by it. If the families had not kept up this campaign at their own expense the truth would have been buried forever. I cannot state strongly enough how appalled I am by what has happened here. Who the hell are we citizens supposed to trust?

____________________



             The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie — deliberate,
contrived and dishonest — but the myth — persistent, persuasive and
unrealistic.
~John F. Kennedy


russiandoll

Posts : 3942
Reputation : 7
Join date : 2011-09-11

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Hillsborough: Families Braced For Revelations

Post by russiandoll on 12.09.12 17:11

quote Tigger
"I'm getting rather tired of heads of state apologising for whatever. Why should Cameron apologise for this? I'm waiting for a proper apology for not winning the battle of Hastings pretty soon.

(interesting to see how the Sun jumped on the bandwagon and elaborated at will - where have we seen that before? Is the Sun going to apologise? They certainly should.) "

There had to be an apology from Cameron, the establishment has not worked hard enough to get to the truth. His party was in power at the time, Milliband apologised for Labour governments not doing enough. It is said that 80 organisations had documents which contained the facts, but remained hidden until the independent panel had access to them.

McKenzie has apologised but it is too late for the families,he knew years ago that the article was a lie. He has been forced into an apology by the revelations today.
The Sun also said that Liverpool fans urinated on police officers.
Yes, the good old Sun. What a wonderful newspaper.
The panel were very impressive..they cross-referenced everything and used the word " forensic" a lot to describe their way of working.

____________________



             The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie — deliberate,
contrived and dishonest — but the myth — persistent, persuasive and
unrealistic.
~John F. Kennedy


russiandoll

Posts : 3942
Reputation : 7
Join date : 2011-09-11

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Hillsborough: Families Braced For Revelations

Post by tigger on 12.09.12 17:30

Fat lot of good that apology of McKenzie will be, I'm sure that if the tabloids had printed even half the truth at the time, a cover up would have been very difficult. They facilitated it to the nth degree.

We are having exactly the same phenomenon with the McCanns, the papers have facilitated a myth which would never have lasted so long had they even printed a fraction of the truth.

I hope you understand that I am not negating the terrible struggle of the families for justice, as I said, trying to blame the dead was beyond belief and totally illogical. Crowds have always frightened me - I've been to a football match once, Wembley. When we left we had no choice as where to move, we were virtually carried by the crowds, to the underground station, another favourite phobia of mine! So I do know there is no choice when you're in a crowd.
I just can't blame the police that was there, because they didn't know how to handle it and there weren't anywhere near enough of them.
What I want to know is: where were the stewards? Because they should have stopped the crowds once they got in. I understand there were none. Was there by any chance a head-steward or someone who could apologise for not being there?
The report exonerating the police was created at a higher level and clearly that needs to be apoligised for. Which is never going to be enough. Because by covering up they besmirched the good officers in their force and did great harm to the families of the victims.

____________________
Lasciate ogni speranza, voi ch'entrate.

tigger

Posts : 8112
Reputation : 24
Join date : 2011-07-20

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Hillsborough: Families Braced For Revelations

Post by jay2001 on 12.09.12 17:36

It's sickening that it's taken 23 years for this report to show how much was covered up. The lies and smears that were published show how low this country sunk and we've been going downhill ever since. Going to many matches in the 70's I was often caught up in crowds even though I would wait till most fans had gone, sometimes it was unavoidable. The tragic events of that day will haunt those involved for ever and no report can erase that. Nothing will bring those 96 people back.

It should not have taken 23 years for the truth to be told and I pray we don't have to wait that long for justice for Madeleine. This whole sad affair just proves that governments, media and police do exactly what they want and truth, justice and accountability are sadly lacking. There have been people campaigning for truth over Hillsborough and at long last they've been heard. This contrasts to people wanting truth for Madeleine because they're either sued or facing superinjunctions IMO.

jay2001

Posts : 116
Reputation : 0
Join date : 2012-01-23

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Hillsborough: Families Braced For Revelations

Post by russiandoll on 12.09.12 17:47

What is shown is that the truth won't stay buried as long as enough people make enough noise for enough time.
As for the rag that is the Sun, I think there will be a front page apology tomorrow
Tigger, I have seen documentaries where police officers and in particular one man who had the only ambulance on the pitch still profoundly distressed by what they witnessed and what they knew were inadequate responses........I think one statement had it right today.......deleted of course from what was handed over years ago.........a state of paralysis, no leadership.
The cover- up came from the top....it is those who need to face a court of law.

____________________



             The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie — deliberate,
contrived and dishonest — but the myth — persistent, persuasive and
unrealistic.
~John F. Kennedy


russiandoll

Posts : 3942
Reputation : 7
Join date : 2011-09-11

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Hillsborough: Families Braced For Revelations

Post by PeterMac on 12.09.12 18:06

go to the files
Enter Nottinghamshire Constabulary in the search box
Read the statements by the mounted section officers (Chris Watson, for example)
Read the statements by the officers patrolling the area round Leppings Lane turnstiles. (Richard Mellors for example)
You may then be able to understand why the decision was made to open the gate.
Children were being crushed.

____________________


PeterMac
Researcher

Posts : 10170
Reputation : 143
Join date : 2010-12-06

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Hillsborough: Families Braced For Revelations

Post by tigger on 12.09.12 19:14

@russiandoll wrote: What is shown is that the truth won't stay buried as long as enough people make enough noise for enough time.
As for the rag that is the Sun, I think there will be a front page apology tomorrow
Tigger, I have seen documentaries where police officers and in particular one man who had the only ambulance on the pitch still profoundly distressed by what they witnessed and what they knew were inadequate responses........I think one statement had it right today.......deleted of course from what was handed over years ago.........a state of paralysis, no leadership.
The cover- up came from the top....it is those who need to face a court of law.


Absolutely. As well as the Sun imo.

____________________
Lasciate ogni speranza, voi ch'entrate.

tigger

Posts : 8112
Reputation : 24
Join date : 2011-07-20

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Hillsborough: Families Braced For Revelations

Post by Invinoveritas on 12.09.12 19:31

@PeterMac wrote:go to the files
Enter Nottinghamshire Constabulary in the search box
Read the statements by the mounted section officers (Chris Watson, for example)
Read the statements by the officers patrolling the area round Leppings Lane turnstiles. (Richard Mellors for example)
You may then be able to understand why the decision was made to open the gate.
Children were being crushed.
so sad, whatever any of the public services do, they are always exposed to political exploitation

____________________
"A voyage of discovery is not just seeing new sights - it is seeing familiar sights with new eyes." Proust

Invinoveritas

Posts : 374
Reputation : 0
Join date : 2011-05-13
Location : Nowereland

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Hillsborough: Families Braced For Revelations

Post by Smokeandmirrors on 12.09.12 19:49

I admit I don't know too much about this particular sad event, but there have been many as listed by PeterMac. What I want to know, in general, is why everyone is blamed for these tragedies EXCEPT the actual crowds of people who squashed their fellow citizens (although the crowds were blamed at the time I believe)? I am probably being terribly ignorant but surely if every person was behaving in a civilised and responsible fashion there would be no surging and there would be a respect for personal space. As I say, I am not referring to Hilsborough itself, just general behaviour of citizens at crowd events. Personally, crowded events are my vision of hell.

____________________
The truth will out.

Smokeandmirrors
Moderator

Posts : 2428
Reputation : 5
Join date : 2011-07-31

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Hillsborough: Families Braced For Revelations

Post by Invinoveritas on 12.09.12 20:08

@Smokeandmirrors wrote:I admit I don't know too much about this particular sad event, but there have been many as listed by PeterMac. What I want to know, in general, is why everyone is blamed for these tragedies EXCEPT the actual crowds of people who squashed their fellow citizens (although the crowds were blamed at the time I believe)? I am probably being terribly ignorant but surely if every person was behaving in a civilised and responsible fashion there would be no surging and there would be a respect for personal space. As I say, I am not referring to Hilsborough itself, just general behaviour of citizens at crowd events. Personally, crowded events are my vision of hell.
this is a snippet from a "love parade" in Duisburg, Germany:At the 2010 Love Parade in Duisburg, the number of people attending allegedly
reached 1.4 million – the original expectation was around 800,000 – whereas
police believed around 400,000 people were present.[10] 21
people were killed, and more than 500 injured, in an incident near an
overcrowded tunnel leading into the festival. At least 20 casualties resulted
from suffocation, caused by crowd pressure.
here the link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Love_Parade
Oh, and the then Mayor lost his his re-election in February 2012

____________________
"A voyage of discovery is not just seeing new sights - it is seeing familiar sights with new eyes." Proust

Invinoveritas

Posts : 374
Reputation : 0
Join date : 2011-05-13
Location : Nowereland

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Hillsborough: Families Braced For Revelations

Post by ShuBob on 12.09.12 20:57

It's been 23 years since the tragedy yet Kelvin Mackenzie, the then Sun editor, is still stained by his reporting of the story. In the not so distant future, Rebekah Brooks, Richard and Judy, Lorraine Kelly, Antonella Lazzeri, David James Smith and many others will find themselves in the same position. Can the same Cameron who apologised today for the institutional cover-up of the facts concerning the Hillborough tragedy oversee a cover-up of the McCann case? I certainly hope not!

ShuBob

Posts : 1893
Reputation : 57
Join date : 2012-02-07

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Hillsborough: Families Braced For Revelations

Post by russiandoll on 12.09.12 21:18

@Smokeandmirrors wrote:I admit I don't know too much about this particular sad event, but there have been many as listed by PeterMac. What I want to know, in general, is why everyone is blamed for these tragedies EXCEPT the actual crowds of people who squashed their fellow citizens (although the crowds were blamed at the time I believe)? I am probably being terribly ignorant but surely if every person was behaving in a civilised and responsible fashion there would be no surging and there would be a respect for personal space. As I say, I am not referring to Hilsborough itself, just general behaviour of citizens at crowd events. Personally, crowded events are my vision of hell.

The report should contain a diagram of the ground and the explanation for why the gate was opened...such was the pressure from crowds outside people were funnelled into the tunnel leading into the central sections. These terraces in Leppings Lane were reported to safely hold 1600 people, they habitually held 2000 and on this fateful day held close to 3000 people. The surge was not due to the usual forward movement of fans anticipating a goal, it was sheer pressure of numbers from the rear area of those central sections. The cover up is the disgraceful thing, people should have held up their hands and admitted to errors of judgment, there was a catalogue of events following on each other that led to tragedy. I will take Peter Mac's advice and read the section of the files referencing this decision to open that particular gate.
The decision to test a 10 year old's blood alcohol level was shameful, as was trying to trace any criminal records of the deceased on the police national computer.

____________________



             The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie — deliberate,
contrived and dishonest — but the myth — persistent, persuasive and
unrealistic.
~John F. Kennedy


russiandoll

Posts : 3942
Reputation : 7
Join date : 2011-09-11

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Hillsborough: Families Braced For Revelations

Post by puzzled on 12.09.12 21:19

@russiandoll wrote:
The Sun also said that Liverpool fans urinated on police officers.
Yes, the good old Sun. What a wonderful newspaper.

I remember the Hillsborough coverage well. The Sun had disgraced itself throughout the 80s, of course, but it reached its nadir with Hillsborough. I think the worst thing they claimed was that when the body of dead girl was being carried up, yobs shouted out 'throw her up here and we'll f*** her', and attempted to molest the body. All untrue. What a disgrace. I've had a complete aversion to anything even connected to Murdoch ever since then. I wouldn't even accept his free newspaper when it was being given out in London. Indeed, if the Sun was to go the same way as the News of the World, who would grieve?






____________________
...how did you feel the last time you squashed a bug? -psychopathic criminal, quoted in Robert Hare, Without Conscience

puzzled

Posts : 177
Reputation : 2
Join date : 2011-06-21

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Hillsborough: Families Braced For Revelations

Post by Smokeandmirrors on 12.09.12 21:31

@russiandoll wrote:
@Smokeandmirrors wrote:I admit I don't know too much about this particular sad event, but there have been many as listed by PeterMac. What I want to know, in general, is why everyone is blamed for these tragedies EXCEPT the actual crowds of people who squashed their fellow citizens (although the crowds were blamed at the time I believe)? I am probably being terribly ignorant but surely if every person was behaving in a civilised and responsible fashion there would be no surging and there would be a respect for personal space. As I say, I am not referring to Hilsborough itself, just general behaviour of citizens at crowd events. Personally, crowded events are my vision of hell.

The report should contain a diagram of the ground and the explanation for why the gate was opened...such was the pressure from crowds outside people were funnelled into the tunnel leading into the central sections. These terraces in Leppings Lane were reported to safely hold 1600 people, they habitually held 2000 and on this fateful day held close to 3000 people. The surge was not due to the usual forward movement of fans anticipating a goal, it was sheer pressure of numbers from the rear area of those central sections. The cover up is the disgraceful thing, people should have held up their hands and admitted to errors of judgment, there was a catalogue of events following on each other that led to tragedy. I will take Peter Mac's advice and read the section of the files referencing this decision to open that particular gate.
The decision to test a 10 year old's blood alcohol level was shameful, as was trying to trace any criminal records of the deceased on the police national computer.

So, actually the responsibility for this lies with the football ground itself for allowing that many people to enter the stadium, and what happened after that, including various failings and cover up was a direct result of too many bodies being allowed into that space, which became an unmanageable situation that resulted in tragic loss of life.

One could argue that greed for revenue lies at the heart of most human-made tragedies.

____________________
The truth will out.

Smokeandmirrors
Moderator

Posts : 2428
Reputation : 5
Join date : 2011-07-31

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Hillsborough: Families Braced For Revelations

Post by russiandoll on 12.09.12 21:48

Hello again S/M,
The report has been well designed. There are links in every section to source material. Michael Mansfield QC has advised the families re the possible crimes and culpability of certain parties.
Sheffield City Council, in charge of issuing safety certificates.
Sheffield Wednesday F.C.
The Ambulance Service.
South Yorks Police.

A cumulative series of errors.
The sad thing is football crowds had such a poor reputation that crowd control and public order were the way to go.
The disgraceful thing is the deletion and amendment of statements either without permission of police officers or by the use of coercion.
The coroner's inquests were a flawed shambles. A pathologist telling the coroner, who accepted it, that all deaths would have occurred by 3.15 p.m.
It is impossible to grasp the enormity of what has happened without reference to this report. The documents speak for themselves.
It is huge in what it says about our society, read what it has taken for the truth to emerge and what was kept from the public for 23 years.
The dignity and determination of those families to find out what happened has been
truly inspirational.

Chapters 1 and 2 of the report are short, to the point and give an excellent description of why this was an event where, once certain decisions were taken, disaster was inevitable. It is a balanced report, but harrowing.

____________________



             The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie — deliberate,
contrived and dishonest — but the myth — persistent, persuasive and
unrealistic.
~John F. Kennedy


russiandoll

Posts : 3942
Reputation : 7
Join date : 2011-09-11

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Page 1 of 7 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7  Next

View previous topic View next topic Back to top


 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum