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Missing from Idaho campsite - Deorr Kunz Jr

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Re: Missing from Idaho campsite - Deorr Kunz Jr

Post by Hobs on Wed Jul 22, 2015 10:12 pm

Polygraphs are unreliable in that if you don't ask the right question a guilty subject will pass.

An example.

The subject sexually abused a little girl

The interviewer asks did you  sexually abuse little Tiffany?
The subject says no and passes.

How can this be so? you may ask.

It is because the interviewer did not enter the subjects on internal personal dictionary.

He may  have indeed sexually abused his victim, however he doesn't see it as abuse, he minimizes it down to tickling or cuddling or hugging.
To you and I it is sexual abuse, to him it was tickling or cuddling since he feels he didn't harm the victim and she seemed to enjoy it (as in didn't resist)

That way when asked if he sexually abused  the victim he can truthfully say no because to him it wasn't sexual abuse.

Statement analysis however, is legally recognised and accepted in court and has often  been used in trials.

The analyst will start the interview by asking general questions to relax the subject and begin the learning process of what is normal for them  speech wise, pace wise.

The analyst will ask, did you touch little Tifafany?
The subject will say yes.
The analyst will then ask more detailed questions such as did you touch her over her clothes?
Where did you touch her and so on.
the subject will confess the truth by leakage.
he isn't asked did you sexually abuse  molest etc  since it is not known what the subject's definition of sexual abuse and molest is.
Bit by bit the interviewer learns the subjects internal dictionary, which areas are sensitive and can ask non threatening (trigger words) questions.
The subject may consider sexual abuse  as intercourse only ( remember bill clinton?)

You can fool a polygrapher (unless they are trained in statement analysis) you cannot fool a statement analyst.

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Re: Missing from Idaho campsite - Deorr Kunz Jr

Post by jeanmonroe on Fri Jul 31, 2015 3:17 pm

Ah!

http://www.ktvb.com/story/news/local/idaho/2015/07/28/lemhi-search-deorr-kuna-persons-interest/30799181/

Sheriff: Parents, friend are persons of interest in boy's disappearance

Dean Johnson, KTVB 5:31 p.m. MDT July 28, 2015


CONNECT 27 TWEETLINKEDINCOMMENTEMAILMORE

SALMON, Idaho – We have some new details on the search for a missing toddler near Leadore, Idaho.

Two-year-old DeOrr Kunz Jr. went missing back on July10 while on a camping trip with his family.

Also on that trip was the boy's great-grandfather and his friend.

The boy's mother confirmed to KTVB the name of the friend. He is 35-year-old Isaac Reinwand.

Lemhi County Sheriff Lynn Bowerman did confirm to EastIdahoNews.com that Reinwand was at the campsite alongside DeOrr's parents, when the boy went missing.

Bowerman also confirmed that Reinwand, as well as the boy's parents Jessica Mitchell and DeOrr Kunz are persons of interest in the case because they were at the scene. They are not being called suspects at this time.

The sheriff says the great-grandfather is not considered a suspect due to his declining physical and mental health.

The Idaho State Repository shows Reinwand was charged with felony rape in 2006, but was then amended down to misdemeanor domestic battery.

EastIdahoNews.com was able to speak briefly with Reinwand on Monday. Reinwand told them that DeOrr was with him and the great-grandfather before he went missing. He declined any further comments.

The Lemhi County Sheriff's Office says they're continuing their investigation.
--------------------------------------------------------
Sheriff: Parents, friend ARE persons of interest in boy's disappearance

Lemhi County Sheriff Lynn Bowerman did confirm to EastIdahoNews.com that Reinwand was at the campsite alongside DeOrr's parents, when the boy went missing.

Sheriff Bowerman also CONFIRMED that Reinwand, as well as the boy's PARENTS Jessica Mitchell and DeOrr Kunz ARE PERSONS OF INTEREST in the case because they were at the scene. They are NOT being called suspects AT THIS TIME.


BUT , NOT great 'grandpa'.

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Re: Missing from Idaho campsite - Deorr Kunz Jr

Post by sammyc on Fri Jul 31, 2015 8:47 pm

Thanks for posting this up Jean Monroe.  I saw this latest report but I haven't had the time to update here. Parents/family/friends last ones to see Deorr, not suspects but persons of interest? I feel the little lad will not be found and the only people who know what has happened to him are the ones who he trusted most  Crying or Very sad

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Re: Missing from Idaho campsite - Deorr Kunz Jr

Post by TheTruthWillOut on Sun Aug 02, 2015 3:09 pm

So the grandmother of little Deorr (Jessica Mitchell's mother) has been answering questions on Facebook.

Trina Bates Clegg My father is 76 and on oxygen 24 hours and not in good health. Don't ever say anything about my Dad unless you got facts. He is very cooperative and has done is pologragh.
Like · 2 · 10 hrs · Edited


Trina Bates Clegg If you have questions ask!!!!!!! I'm the grandma to Baby DeOrr and my Dad was the last one to see Baby DeOrr
Like · 2 · 10 hrs


Trina Bates Clegg They had to go to Leadore for female items and bought my Dad and baby DeOrr candy. This has been verified by the cashier
Like · 2 · 8 hrs


Trina Bates Clegg My Dad has lung problems. Since this my father has been very upset and emotionally struggling. 

I have been informed Isaac was at the creek but the interview he stated something different
Like · 2 · 8 hrs


Trina Bates Clegg Everyone seems to have opinions how about hiking boots to be with us for the last 21 days?
Like · 1 · 8 hrs



Trina Bates Clegg I DO NOT FEEL ATTACKED BY ANY TONIGHT ON THIS
Like · 24 · 5 hrs

Amber Silvers Trina, if you dont mind answering..When did they decide to go camping? Was this a planned trip or spur of the moment? Just wondering how many people knew of their plans?
Like · 4 hrs
Trina Bates Clegg My Dad's suburban and camper, Isaac rode the with my Dad slept in a tent, DeOrr Sr truck they slept in the back of my Dad's suburban with Baby DeOrr
Like · 3 · 4 hrs

Trina Bates Clegg They decided to go about a week prior to
Like · 3 · 4 hrs

Trina Bates Clegg I have 100% confidence he was at the camp site I threw away his soiled diaper in the churches garbage and all officers have that information. As far as we have been informed The FBI has to do the reward.

Call Lemhi County about searching. I'd like to know what they say (HONESTLY) I don't ask I just go and search
Like · 6 · 9 hrs


Asia Payne Can you let everyone know when it was that you were with him last (when you referenced his diaper)?
Like · 1 · 9 hrs

Trina Bates Clegg His diaper was from Friday morning at the camp site
Like · 1 · 9 hrs

Trina Bates Clegg Baby DeOrr wanted to "stay with grandpa". My Dad seen him playing in the dirt and then he said he looked over and he was gone so he thought Baby DeOrr had walked to his parents. When DeOrr Sr. came to get him my father was in shock.
Like · 6 · 9 hrs · Edited

Trina Bates Clegg I know my daughter, Jessica, DeOrr Sr and my father have completed their polygraph test and I understood have done Isaas' but I personally can't verify

If I don't answer your questions please understand I'm likely to loose signal.


Trina Bates Clegg They arrived at the camp site Thursday night about 930pm
Like · 6 · 8 hrs


Asia Payne Trina Bates Clegg - it's seems like the national media hasn't covered your grand baby's story very much....I'm sure it's been excruciatingly frustrating for your family!! Hundreds of people would very much like to help you all get the national attention your grandbaby deserves!!! Have national media outlets been declining to cover the story??
Like · 1 · 8 hrs

Trina Bates Clegg We were told to hold off on the media due to all the negativity and it is taking the focus off of my grandson and him being located
Like · 4 · 8 hrs

Trina Bates Clegg Creek is 20'-30' from camp area
Like · 3 · 8 hrs

Trina Bates Clegg All 5 arrived at the camp area at approximately 930pm
Like · 4 · 8 hrs

Trina Bates Clegg I was told Isaac was at creek but his interview was different. My Dad said Isaac was fishing at the creek
Like · 8 · 8 hrs


Nichola Stanhope Thank you Trina.
Like · 1 · 8 hrs

Trina Bates Clegg The stories are very painful because we are asking for thoughts and plans and they say they are looking and maps and then this report came out today. I'm at a loss too
Like · 9 · 8 hrs


Trina Bates Clegg I've been there on foot and four wheelers and there is no sign. I pray for answers


Trina Bates Clegg I was not there until about 448 pm Friday afternoon after I heard
Like · 6 · 8 hrs

Trina Bates Clegg Jessie Morrison I'm not pointing any fingers because if I'm wrong I have to ask for forgiven from God. The cops have been very quite since the FBI arrived
Like · 11 · 7 hrs

Trina Bates Clegg I have understood the search will be extended to 10 miles now
Like · 8 · 7 hrs

Trina Bates Clegg A truck had the back window broke out at about 3pm Saturday very close to the location and an EMT bag stolen from it
Like · 6 · 7 hrs

Trina Bates Clegg DeOrr is not autistic.
Like · 8 · 6 hrs

Trina Bates Clegg They arrived Thursday night at approximately 930pm. The media needs to get the complete story.
Like · 5 · 6 hrs

Heidi Bishop Was the EMT bag taken from an ambulance, or a non medical vehicle? 

Trina Bates Clegg Pickup truck as I was informed from the the officers


Trina Bates Clegg Misty River no warrants they are fully cooperating
Like · 6 · 6 hrs


Trina Bates Clegg Unaware about Isaac's house very quite since FBI arrived



August 1, 2015 at 6:22 AM

Juliet said...
My post above are the grandmother's comments as copied from Facebook page Local News 8 - not necessarily complete, or in the right order - they are difficult to find, and to copy and paste, for me, using this state of the art contraption. :-/
August 1, 2015 at 6:27 AM

Juliet said...
PS -Also, omitted are the many comments and questions interspersed between grandma Clegg's replies -it would've taken too long, and for the most part, the responses indicate what the questions were. 
August 1, 2015 at 7:14 AM

Anonymous said...
I read somewhere on another post that the father of Jessicas' two older children says he talks to Jessica and baby Daddy DeOrr every day and that he knows more about little DeOrrs disappearance than anyone else but can't talk about what he knows. Seems that he is about to bust a gut keeping silent. Why? If he knows so much why isn't he saying so, particularly to the Sheriffs' office? 

I don't know that I would trust his judgment so much anyway, since apparently he has become so close to Jessica and Daddy DeOrr that his opinions could be slanted in their favor. Also, the fact that he had two babies with Jessica, a woman he wasn't even married too then wound up having to take custody of them, not that he doesn't love them but doesn't prove him to be a very smart thinker in my opinion.

August 1, 2015 at 7:16 AM


Some very interesting comments here. The arrived there at 21:30 Thursday evening especially.

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Re: Missing from Idaho campsite - Deorr Kunz Jr

Post by jeanmonroe on Wed Aug 12, 2015 1:46 pm



11th August 2015

There's some 'interesting' stuff in 'there'

" I investigate".............'abducted or missing children, mostly INVOLVING parents'

'abduction/missing' by "a friend of a friend, OF THE FAMILY"

NO 'evidence', whatsoever, that Deorr Jr was 'EVER there' CONFIRMED by 'dogs AND human, 'searchers' (at 'campsite')

"Investigator".................'that WAS' (his 'life') 'that WAS' (his son) 'that WAS' (his blood) 'that WAS' (his heart) (all past tense) when speaking about Deorr SNR. The 'investigator/PI' 'knew' Deorr Snr, BEFORE the 'event'.

Shouldn't it be: Deorr IS his, 'life, heart, blood, son'?

'because there are 'sinister crimes' that 'occur'. (by parents)

Then we have, the 'obligatory', imo, of course, the 'STARING man'

Hobs? Where are you? winkwink

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Re: Missing from Idaho campsite - Deorr Kunz Jr

Post by Get'emGonçalo on Mon Jan 25, 2016 6:44 pm

LEMHI COUNTY -- The Lemhi County Sheriff announced Monday that the parents of missing toddler DeOrr Kunz Jr. have been named suspects in his disappearance.

Sheriff Lynn Bowerman told KTVB that Jessica Mitchell and Deorr Kunz Sr. have been "less than truthful" since the investigation began.

"They refused to give us any further information to clear up the untruthfulness and they've changed their story on numerous occasions," he said.

DeOrr Kunz Jr. was reported missing July 10. His parents told authorities the boy disappeared during a family camping trip near Leadore. Search teams combed the area, but found no trace of the toddler.

MORE: New details released in missing 2-year-old, DeOrr Kunz Jr., case


Bowerman said he believes DeOrr's parents know where he is and whether he is dead or alive.
"We've basically centered our investigation on them," he said.

The pair are not under arrest, and no warrants have been issued. Bowerman said he has met with prosecutors, the FBI and the Bonneville County Sheriff's Office and plans to take his time and make sure the case is solid before bringing charges against Mitchell and Kunz.

"We don't feel that the arrest is imminent, but we're leaving all options open," he said. "We don't want to jeopardize the investigation and charge them too early, for fear that we might find DeOrr and it might change."

Private investigators with Klein Investigations and Consulting hired by the family said earlier this month they had ruled out the possibility of an abduction or attack by a wild animal in DeOrr's disappearance.

Bowerman said he still hopes the public can help investigators by contacting authorities with any information that could help the investigation.

"We're asking the public at this time to come forward with any information that they might have concerning the parents and their interaction with their son DeOrr that they might have witnessed," he said.

The sheriff stressed that the naming of suspects in the case did not mean the hunt for the toddler was being pushed to a back burner.

"The investigation is still active, it's still open and we will continue until we find DeOrr," he said.
Click here to see all of KTVB's continuing coverage of this search.


http://www.ktvb.com/story/news/crime/2016/01/25/lemhi-co-sheriff-deorr-kunz-parents-suspects-his-disappearance/79301014/

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Re: Missing from Idaho campsite - Deorr Kunz Jr

Post by Hobs on Mon Jan 25, 2016 10:52 pm

Sad to say, DeOrr jr is probably long dead, he may even have been dead before getting to the nature trail.
It was clear from the get go that the stories of the parents were off, questions were raised about the friend, isaac reinwand he was charged with felony rape but plea dealt down to misdemeanor domestic battery.

Questions were asked about his friendship with the grandfather given the large age difference.
It seems they met through AA.

Questions were and are being asked as to why they thought going camping in a wilderness was suitable for a grandfather with several health issues.
Was it perhaps foreplanning that they good blame the grandfather for DeOrr going missing, they went off to do whatever and the elderly grandfather with failing memory amongst other things made the perfect patsy, he is old and infirm and he was watching DeOrr and got distracted and DeOrr was abducted (presumably after walking off).

I do wonder if there is a link between the parents and reinwand?
Would he be prepared to cover up something in return for something else?

Further statements are needed to see who did what and when, why, whether it was an accident or deliberate, who knew what and who did what in the subsequent disposal.

The father showed a lot of sensitivity in relation to his truck.
I don't know if cadaver dogs reacted there, again it would depend on death if he is dead as is highly likely given the terrain and length of time.
If DeOrr was moved and disposed of before cadaverine was strong enough to be detected by a dog then cadaver dogs wouldn't react for it wouldn't be detectable to them.

It is worth noting that no trace of a live DeOrr could be found outside of the campsite.

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Re: Missing from Idaho campsite - Deorr Kunz Jr

Post by Joannep43 on Tue Jan 26, 2016 8:09 am

According to localnews8.com DeOrrs father has now hired an attorney.Whilst some may see this as pointing to guilt,it is probably the right thing for the parents to do at this stage.
In my opinion I believe the parents are innocent,although it's has been recently stated that they have been less than truthful by the Sherrif?
When talking about the parents he was quoted as saying" we have basically centered our investigation on them".
There are numerous press articles which suggest Cadaver dogs have searched every inch of the camp,their homes and cars.The only alert made was to a creek or reservoir where a women had recently been scattering ashes.
I'm no expert on body language etc but would like to say that on the video interview of the parents I don't see any signs that they are being deceptive.The fathers body language is relaxed and open.He responds to questions without any hesitation and he talks quite fast which could give ample opportunity to brain leak and implicate themselves,but he doesn't.They both sit unguarded,in their own individual postures.They look like a couple each going through their own grief loss etc.They both seem to display appropriate emotions throughout the interview.
I just get the feeling that maybe the police have one theory and are trying to make it stick.

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Re: Missing from Idaho campsite - Deorr Kunz Jr

Post by Hobs on Tue Jan 26, 2016 9:26 pm

@Joannep43 wrote:According to localnews8.com DeOrrs father has now hired an attorney.Whilst some may see this as pointing to guilt,it is probably the right thing for the parents to do at this stage.
In my opinion I believe the parents are innocent,although it's has been recently stated that they have been less than truthful by the Sherrif?
When talking about the parents he was quoted as saying" we have basically centered our investigation on them".
There are numerous press articles which suggest Cadaver dogs have searched every inch of the camp,their homes and cars.The only alert made was to a creek or reservoir where a women had recently been scattering ashes.
I'm no expert on body language etc but would like to say that on the video interview of the parents I don't see any signs that they are being deceptive.The fathers body language is relaxed and open.He responds to questions without any hesitation and he talks quite fast which could give ample opportunity to brain leak and implicate themselves,but he doesn't.They both sit unguarded,in their own individual postures.They look like a couple each going through their own grief loss etc.They both seem to display appropriate emotions throughout the interview.
I just get the feeling that maybe the police have one theory and are trying to make it stick.
In initial interviews, and the 911 calls, the father showed sensitivity relating to his truck.
This could be because of guilty knowledge or something else.
Was the truck responsible for an accident?
Was the truck used to dispose of a body?

Cadaver dogs would not react if the body had been dead for less that 90 mins minimum (depending on the environment it is the minimum length of time needed for enough cadaverine to be produced to be detected by a dog)

Given both parents are now named as  suspects and their own PI's have pretty much said they are involved and they have evidence which is being passed to LE, it is now a question of who talks first and wins the prize?

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Re: Missing from Idaho campsite - Deorr Kunz Jr

Post by Get'emGonçalo on Wed Jan 27, 2016 4:48 pm

Posted by Peter Hyatt on the Statement Analyst blog:



Did DeOrr Kunz jr drown because he was not being watched properly by his parents?

Is this a case of unintentional death and subsequent panic coverup?

Police have announced that the parents of DeOrr Kunz are "suspects" and it appears this is by reason of deduction.  

Why make this announcement?

Why make this announcement now?

The announcement comes on the heels of frustration by the public who sought answers for the child, with commentary overwhelmingly in favor of unintended death and cover up by the parents.   

Is this a signal of weakness?

It may be that the announcement is made now in hopes of not only pressuring the parents to speak out more, but to cause someone of whom either parent has confided in, to come forward.  

What we have learned through Statement Analysis has come primarily from the father, who loves to talk.   Unfortunately, in the lengthy interview, the IR did not do a good job in brining either parent to a place of denial, nor even about the polygraph.  Here are some specifics from the analysis to consider:  


Analysis Question

Do the parents possess guilty knowledge of their son's disappearance?


In viewing good social introductions, we may be able to rule out 

intentional homicide, but not accidental death and coverup.  This 

is simply because the parents love the child, and what may have 

happened initially, was not intended but came from negligence.  

With parents panicking over being believed, or due to substance abuse, they would need to remove the child from the locale and report him missing. 

Question:  Does this theory fit the language?

The case (and analysis) has progressed enough to take a working

 theory and apply it to the interview's analysis.  



Read more here: http://statement-analysis.blogspot.co.uk/2016/01/deorr-case-examined-unintended-death.html?spref=tw

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Re: Missing from Idaho campsite - Deorr Kunz Jr

Post by Get'emGonçalo on Mon Feb 08, 2016 8:34 am

Twist in case of missing two-year-old DeOrr Kunz Jr as parents named suspects



By Andrew Koubaridis
8 February 2016

Toddler DeOrr Kunz has not been seen since going missing from a campsite at Idaho Falls on July 10 last year.
Andrew Koubaridisnews.com.au


Anguish ... The parents of DeOrr Kunz speak to media.   

THE tears look real. So does the pain on their faces. But is this couple hiding a terrible secret?

Jessica Mitchell and DeOrr Kunz Sr have been in the international spotlight ever since their little boy, DeOrr Kunz Jr, vanished from a remote campsite in Idaho on July 10 last year.

They have given interviews, launched appeals and openly begged members of the public to come forward with information.

“Who would harm us this way?” the missing toddler’s mother asked. “Especially knowing how much he means to us. He’s everything to us,” she told the local East Idaho News.

“If somebody has him please don’t hurt him. Just bring him home safely where he belongs.”

They spoke a lot. Not just to media, but to police. Unsurprising, given their two-year-old son was missing, but then police noticed their versions of events began to change.

With suspicions mounting, police asked them to do lie-detector tests and this week revealed the couple had been “less than truthful”.

It isn’t the first time the parents have been accused. On the internet, amateur sleuths have speculated that Ms Williams didn’t appear to be mourning enough, and in their community rumours have swirled the couple were somehow responsible for DeOrr Jnr’s disappearance.

Speculation of this kind is not that out of the ordinary. In fact, it seems almost predictable in cases like this.

Then the bombshell.

“They’re not able to tell the same story twice because they’ve told so many stories,” County Sheriff Lynn Bowerman told KTVB-TV. “We’re getting changes in the stories all the time.”
DeOrr Kunz.



Sheriff Bowerman then said police believed the couple knew what happened to their son, and named them as suspects.

There has been a flurry of activity in recent days. Detectives have re-interviewed the parents and other witnesses and FBI investigators have also joined local police as they try to bring an end to the seven-month mystery.

No clothing or blood has been found and the parents have co-operated fully throughout the inquiry.

Despite the behind the scenes work — which exploded into the public eye with Sheriff Bowerman’s startling comments — it doesn’t seem likely any arrests are imminent.

The New York Daily News reported police were focusing on finding DeOrr. The parents say they last saw him when they left him with his maternal grandfather and a friend to go on a walk.

The grandfather thought he was with his parents — meaning there is a 20-minute window for whatever happened to DeOrr to have taken place.

“We decided we were gonna do a little exploring,” Mr Kunz Sr told reporters. “It’s such a small area — that’s what a lot of people don’t understand. They just assume, ‘How could you let your kid out of your sight?’ Well, this area is pretty well blocked in and there’s no way you couldn’t not see him.”


DeOrr Kunz, pictured with mum Jessica Mitchell.

His partner was adamant she knew what happened to her son. She believed he had been abducted.

“He doesn’t go anywhere without his blanket, his cup or his monkey. All three of them were left at the campground.”

There has been little privacy for the family since then, as their every move has been studied by the public and police.

Last month, Mr Kunz Snr took to Facebook to share his despair.

“Six months since he stood next a picnic table and I heard his little voice and that was the last moment my life went from great to upside down … that little boy taught me how to be a man to love and care and happiness I miss my son every minute of everyday. I just want my amazing son back and my great life to continue daddy misses and loves you goobs,” he wrote.

The family hired Texas-based Klein Investigations and Consulting to investigate what happened. In a recent report, the private investigators said they ruled out on theory — that of a wild animal attack — and abduction.

But they did not rule out an accidental death or “death with intent”. In short, there was very little they could say with certainty other than DeOrr was dead.

“We’ve reconstructed this case from the ground up,” CEO Philip Klein said. “We’ve concluded this: it didn’t just pop out of the air.”

So where is he then?

Reports from Ms Williams and others about the sighting of a mystery black jeep were dismissed by Mr Klein as a distraction.

A complicating factor is the family friend, Isaac Reinwand, who was with the grandfather at the time DeOrr was last seen. He won’t be interviewed by the private investigators and has hired a lawyer to represent him.

“He is very important in this case. We need to interview Isaac, we believe he has info that will help this case,” he told the Post Register.

Not everyone is happy with the parents being named as suspects. DeOrr Kunz shares the same last name as his son and grandson and has told of his anger at police for directing their energy at his family.

“Losing a baby is enough to tear anybody apart,” the 70-year-old told People. “The browbeating that they’ve been going through with the law enforcement is too much.”

He accused police of just wanting the case “to go away”.

That might be wishful thinking, because until DeOrr is found there will be a lot more scrutiny on this mother and father.




http://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/real-life/news-life/twist-in-case-of-missing-twoyearold-deorr-kunz-jr-as-parents-named-suspects/news-story/2bdcd8daafeb4d338d92f21a6ca53eb3?utm_content=SocialFlow&utm_campaign=EditorialSF&utm_source=News.com.au&utm_medium=Facebook#itm=newscomau

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Re: Missing from Idaho campsite - Deorr Kunz Jr

Post by Hobs on Mon Feb 08, 2016 2:16 pm

“Who would harm us this way?” the missing toddler’s mother asked. “Especially knowing how much he means to us. He’s everything to us,” she told the local East Idaho News.

Oh Dear, here we see where her priority lies.
She doesn't ask who would harm her son, her priority is herself and her husband.

Note she uses the pronoun US three times in this sentence which makes it highly sensitive.

She doesn't mention her son by name she uses only the pronoun HE.


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Re: Missing from Idaho campsite - Deorr Kunz Jr

Post by jeanmonroe on Tue Feb 09, 2016 10:06 am

Sadly, imo, 'forseeable' and 'forseen' by people who diligently, erm, 'study' er,..... 'mysteries'.

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Re: Missing from Idaho campsite - Deorr Kunz Jr

Post by cbeagle on Mon Mar 07, 2016 2:33 pm

Reading about DeOrr's disappearance on websluthes it seems there are many similarities to Madeleine's, including the theories about what could of happened, e.g. was DeOrr even on the camping trip/was Madeleine seen after Sunday, even to the point of asking if the child ever existed.

So I wonder if DeOrr's disappearance is resolved and the parents are involved in some way, will it be able to shed any light on what happened to Madeleine? For example it might provide a reason why a parent would cover up an accidental death.

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Re: Missing from Idaho campsite - Deorr Kunz Jr

Post by jeanmonroe on Fri Mar 11, 2016 11:13 am

Philip Klein, a private investigator hired by the extended family of missing toddler DeOrr Kunz Jr., announced Monday that he believes the child was intentionally or accidentally killed while on a camping trip with his parents. He also said (Vernal) DeOrr Kunz, DeOrr’s father, Jessica Mitchell, DeOrr’s mother, and Robert Walton, DeOrr’s grandfather, know more than they are saying about the child’s disappearance.

Klein spoke with EastIdahoNews.com reporter Nate Eaton on Tuesday and revealed new information about his civil investigation. Below is a transcript of the conversation.

EastIdahoNews.com reached out to Lemhi County Chief Deputy Steve Penner, the leader criminal investigator in the case. He declined to comment on Klein’s claims and stressed his department is focused on solving this case.

The Lemhi County Sheriff’s Office has named (Vernal) DeOrr Kunz and Jessica Mitchell as suspects in DeOrr’s disappearance, but they have not been criminally charged.

EastIdahoNews.com reached out to Kunz and Mitchell Tuesday afternoon for comment. Kunz said Klein’s statements are “ridiculous” and referred us to his attorney, who issued this statement.

Nate Eaton, EastIdahoNews.com reporter: Last night you announced you had completed the third phase of your investigation in the disappearance of DeOrr Kunz Jr. Explain what that means.

Philip Klein, Klein Investigations: There were three phases to this investigation so far.

First, we wanted to start the investigation from the ground up. We didn’t want influence from law enforcement, we didn’t want influence from family, we didn’t want influence from anybody. All we knew was there were four people on a mountain and a child went missing.

We went back and rebuilt this case from ground zero. We interviewed probably over 150 witnesses and followed up on, I think, 300 tips.

We have declared it now an accidental death/homicide and we’ve based it on a few things.

I want to go over those things very clearly because there’s a lot of public conjecture at this point.

I want to announce for the first time we, law enforcement and the FBI have interviewed Vernal Kunz (DeOrr Sr.), the father of DeOrr, nine times. He’s been given nine interviews and none of the stories he has told has matched or even been verified.

That is very disturbing for us as investigators. He’s given us a story, and when we go out and try to prove up simple things on the timeline it falls apart quickly.

Eaton: Can you give us examples of the inconsistencies?

Klein: We can’t even match simple things like filling up with gas at a diesel store in Leadore on the day of the event. He clearly says that the gentleman who was pumping the gas actually saw the child. We interviewed the guy who had supposedly seen the child and he comes back and says, ‘I don’t remember seeing a child.’

Simple things like a dog in the back of the pickup – there was no dog.

Little things that investigators look at as simple things Vernal has not been able to verify with us.

As for Jessica, she has given five interviews to law enforcement and none of the stories she’s given us matched. In fact, she changes her story depending upon what day it is and what day we talk with her.

That’s very disturbing to us. We can’t even verify basic information that Vernal tells us and neither of their stories match. It’s not even close, as a matter of fact.

Eyewitnesses that they have listed – from guys that distribute the beer to the clerk at the store to the person that pumped the gas to the basic timeline information – Vernal and Jessica tell us one story but then the witnesses say no, that never happened. Here’s what did happen.

So we take all of that and we come back to them with, ‘OK, tell us what really happened because all these witnesses you have given us, they don’t match.’

And so they tell us the story and again. We go out and we try to reverify with different witnesses. Then, in some cases, some say, ‘We don’t even know who these people are. Who are you talking about?’

Not only that, it comes down to simple things like they played with DeOrr at the store. We talked to the witnesses before and after who didn’t even see a child (in the store).

It brings concern to us and brings us to the question of why would they lie to us? Why would they not just tell us the truth?

We add that Vernal has gone in for five polygraph tests from different polygraph test administers – state, local and federal government. Vernal not only failed all five but he failed all five in the 99th percentile. That is hugely disturbing to us.

He can’t even pass a non-control question like, “Are you gonna tell us the truth today?” He flunks it and not only does he flunk it, he doesn’t just spike in his polygraph test, it’s like a wave. That disturbs us tremendously.

Then we move to Jessica. Law enforcement gives Jessica four different tests. Jessica failed not only to the 99th percentile but she can’t pass simple control questions.

That’s not because she’s nervous. She’s able to pass her name, she’s able to pass where she is today, she’s able to pass the certain questions that are no-brainer questions, but doesn’t even come close to what happened to DeOrr or, ‘Are you going to tell the truth today?’ She fails so bad that in my 26 years, I’ve never heard of a person failing that bad.

Today we’re going to announce that there was a cadaver dog interaction with certain equipment at the site and that cadaver dog did hit positive. I can’t go any further than that other than we do have a dog that did hit in the initial two weeks of the primary investigation.

Eaton: This wasn’t up at the reservoir concerning the cremains? (Law enforcement had previously announced cremains were dumped into the reservoir around the time of DeOrr’s disappearance, but said they were unrelated to this case.)

Klein: I’m not going to discuss where it was or the circumstances around it because it will be an integral part of the prosecution, and I don’t want to the hurt the prosecution, but a cadaver dog did hit. That has never been announced before, but we’re announcing it today because we feel the public needs to know.

I’m also going to announce to you today that Jessica herself has told investigators on our team she knows where the body is but she will not go all the way and finish her story.

This has been very disturbing to us. We have attempted to work with Jessica tremendously. We have offered to fly her to Texas to give her the opportunity to get away from Idaho because she’s scared of some situations.

I believe some of it is paranoia that has set into her at this point because she knows the walls are closing in around her but I will announce today that Jessica has told our investigators that she knows where the body is, but she won’t go all the way and say more.

That is a huge piece of evidence in this case and we’re very concerned about it. We’ve asked Jessica privately, and now we’re asking her publicly to come in and tell law enforcement about what happened.

Also today we are willing to announce that in our interviews with the grandfather, he did admit to investigators that he believes there was an accident. He will not go all the way and tell the complete truth at this time.

We are willing to announce that Isaac Reinwand has given us some statements that we are vetting at this time. As soon as we’re done vetting those statements, there there may be a further announcement from law enforcement.

Eaton: When Jessica says she knows where the body is, has she given you any suggestions or tips?

Klein: She has broken down in an interview with us, and I understand she’s broken down in an interview with law enforcement, that she does know in fact where the body is.

Eaton: Could she be criminally charged now that she’s admitted that she knows where the body is?

Klein: I’m a civil investigator, but I see a lot of problems for Jessica and Vernal.

First of all they have been lying to federal agents with the FBI and the task force.

The second problem on the table is if it was an accident, there would be some laws regarding what they did with the body, not reporting an accident, those sort of things.

We’re publicly asking Vernal, we’re publicly asking Jessica and we’re publicly asking Jessica’s grandfather, Bob, to let’s bring this to an end.

Enough of lying, enough of trying to mislead investigators, enough of going on Facebook and Instagram and Twitter and all these things and trying to mislead the public.

I’m just very frustrated with Vernal, I’m very frustrated with Jessica and I’m very frustrated with their inability to tell the truth.

I’m frustrated with them trying to mislead investigators not only on our side, but FBI, who you don’t mess with, you be honest with them. And then of course to the fine people in Bonneville County and Lemhi County. They are stuck in the middle of this and are trying to just get them to tell the truth.

Eaton: When investigators confront them about their inconsistencies, what’s their response? Do they double down, or does the story change?

Klein: The story changes. They don’t ever double down. It goes off into a world that you – you know, you can’t be dumb all the time. Even things in the timeline such as where was the blanket, where was the sippy cup – nobody can tell the truth.

Quite frankly, the stories all break down at 8 o’clock in the morning. The only time their stories are true and correct and we can verify is the night before and then after the 911 call. Everything can not be verified between 8 o’clock in the morning and 2:26 in the afternoon when the 911 call was made – we can’t verify anything. I mean nothing. Zero. Doughnut hole.

Eaton: Where does the investigation go from here?

Klein: We’re going to Phase 4 of this case. It’s the actual ground hunt. We know an area that we will be going into. We will probably be up there with different teams within the next 30 days.

We do have those places we’re going to hunt under surveillance to make sure nobody comes in and nobody goes out of those areas.

Eaton: Is there anything you’d like to add?

Klein: The people of Idaho Falls and Lemhi County should be absolutely ecstatic with the law enforcement – from the FBI to the sheriff’s department – these guys are dedicated people.

On behalf of my nine investigators, I’d just like to say thank you to the people of Idaho.

I mostly hope that Vernal and Jessica and their families take a step back. They are very protective over them. They are in denial. You must understand that Vernal’s family and Jessica’s family – they are innocent in this. They are just doing what family members do and they are circling around their loved ones. They are in denial and they need to come out of denial. This is a very, very serious situation.
-----------------------------------
Philip Klein, a private investigator hired by the extended family of missing toddler DeOrr Kunz Jr., announced Monday that he believes the child was intentionally or accidentally killed while on a camping trip with his parents. He also said (Vernal) DeOrr Kunz, DeOrr’s father, Jessica Mitchell, DeOrr’s mother, and Robert Walton, DeOrr’s grandfather, know more than they are saying about the child’s disappearance.

"Quite frankly, the stories all break down at 8 o’clock in the morning. The only time their stories are true and correct and we can verify is the night before and then after the 911 call. Everything can not be verified between 8 o’clock in the morning and 2:26 in the afternoon when the 911 call was made – we can’t verify anything. I mean nothing. Zero. Doughnut hole."

NINE (9) 'lie detector' tests between them................ALL 'FAILS'

memo to Klein:

'It's not what you 'know', it's what you can 'prove' in court'!

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