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Good or bad.....Big brother or not??

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Good or bad.....Big brother or not??

Post by Guest on 10.07.14 9:55

Emergency phone and internet data storage law to be brought in

Nick Robinson
Political editor
10 July 2014 Last updated at 08:44



Emergency legislation will be brought in next week to force phone and internet companies to log records of customer calls, texts and internet use.

Ministers say it is necessary so police and security services can access the data they need after a legal ruling which declared existing powers invalid.

The proposed law has the backing of Labour and the coalition parties.

A special cabinet is being held to agree the planned laws, which will only last until 2016.

Prime Minister David Cameron and his Lib Dem Deputy Prime Minister Nick Clegg will tell a special cabinet meeting on Thursday that emergency legislation is necessary to keep the country safe.

A recent ruling of the European Court of Justice has removed the obligation on telecoms companies to retain records of when and who their customers have called, texted and emailed.

Without a new law Mr Cameron and Mr Clegg will claim that that information could be destroyed within weeks by companies fearing legal challenges.

Labour is backing emergency legislation after all-party talks agreed that this law would enshrine existing rights and not be used to extend them by re-introducing the so-called "snoopers charter".

It will also bring in so-called safeguards including:

The creation of a new Privacy and Civil Liberties Oversight Board to examine the impact of the law on privacy and civil liberties
A review of the controversial RIPA - Regulation of Investigatory Powers Act
Annual government transparency reports on how these powers are used
The law will include a so-called sunset clause - ensuring that these powers will die in 2016 - so there will be a longer and wider debate about what replaces them.
Critics will no doubt argue that the time for that debate is now. To pass any new law in just a week is rare. So too is it to have the backing of all three main parties even before it is published.

On a subject as sensitive as giving the police and security services access to phone and internet data this is bound to be controversial.

Update 08:45 BST: The emergency legislation will oblige telecom firms to retain data for 12 months. Under the European law which it replaces companies could be asked to retain data for 24 months.

More controversially the new law will also produce what is being described as a "clearer legal framework" to allow access to the content of calls, texts and emails after a warrant is signed by a senior government minister. Telecoms companies are said to have warned ministers that after the Edward Snowden revelations they are vulnerable to legal challenge by their customers.

The Labour MP Tom Watson has condemned the plans as a "stitch up" which prevent MPs from considering the legislation properly.

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Re: Good or bad.....Big brother or not??

Post by Julchen on 10.07.14 16:27

Bad, because it's only the first step.
And a step in a wrong and very dangerous direction.
No relevance to general users of the internet.
All on the "If you've got nothing to hide you've got nothing to fear" basis.
IMO there is no, I mean not one single politicians who is in the position (at least for the time being) to lord it over British citizens, i.e. taxpayers, voters, when there is so much filth coming out of Westmintser of which we have only seen the very, very first glance.

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Re: Good or bad.....Big brother or not??

Post by PeterMac on 10.07.14 17:34

candyfloss wrote: Lots of SNIPS
A recent ruling of the European Court of Justice has removed the obligation on telecoms companies to retain records of when and who their customers have called, texted and emailed.
Without a new law Mr Cameron and Mr Clegg will claim that that information could be destroyed within weeks by companies fearing legal challenges.
Labour is backing emergency legislation after all-party talks agreed that this law would enshrine existing rights and not be used to extend them by re-introducing the so-called "snoopers charter".
Update 08:45 BST: The emergency legislation will oblige telecom firms to retain data for 12 months. Under the European law which it replaces companies could be asked to retain data for 24 months.
More controversially the new law will also produce what is being described as a "clearer legal framework" to allow access to the content of calls, texts and emails after a warrant is signed by a senior government minister. Telecoms companies are said to have warned ministers that after the Edward Snowden revelations they are vulnerable to legal challenge by their customers.

Lets us not get paranoid about what is happening here.

Several other countries had their own Primary legislation about this.
Britain did not, and relied on the European Directive to achieve EXACTLY the same thing.
The European Directive has been struck down
Therefore Britain needs its own Primary Legislation.

And it has to move quickly because companies which previously were doing what they were doing, under the protection of the Directive, now fear that the Lawyers will move in
And there is therefore a danger that those companies, who were acting properly and legally, will destroy the data BEFORE the new law can be enacted.

The proposed new law talks of 12 months. The previous European Directive talked of 24 months.
It therefore is a limitation on the power of government.

Let us all hope that the kids coming back from Syria don't plan an atrocity in 13 months time !

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Re: Good or bad.....Big brother or not??

Post by BlueBag on 10.07.14 19:45

This legislation is the 1984 dream.

They will know where you are, what you say, what you think (profiling)....

They will be able to nip you in the bud if you don't like the system and "conspire" with others to change it.

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Re: Good or bad.....Big brother or not??

Post by Guest on 10.07.14 22:59

Video clip on link


Nick Sutton @suttonnick  ·  1h
"Why are we rushing it through?" Conservative MP David Davis tells #wato about his concerns over emergency data law. http://bbc.in/VPM26e

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Re: Good or bad.....Big brother or not??

Post by BlueBag on 11.07.14 7:37

@BlueBag wrote:This legislation is the 1984 dream.

They will know where you are, what you say, what you think (profiling)....

They will be able to nip you in the bud if you don't like the system and "conspire" with others to change it.

Let's put it another way... if this had been around at the end of the 19th Century then the real original Union movement and Labour party would have been spied on, infiltrated and scuppered at birth.

This allows them to watch dangerous people (and I don't mean terrorists).

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Re: Good or bad.....Big brother or not??

Post by PeterMac on 11.07.14 8:23

@BlueBag wrote:
Let's put it another way... if this had been around at the end of the 19th Century then the real original Union movement and Labour party would have been spied on, infiltrated and scuppered at birth.
This allows them to watch dangerous people (and I don't mean terrorists).

The Union movement has always been spied on, hence the certainty that Soviet money was coming into the UK
and that the gradual destruction by strikes of so many of our heavy industries was carefully planed - in the Kremlin.
They are doing it again with Fracking. Well meaning but scientifically illiterate greens organised without their knowledge by heavy lefties
The USSR cannot allow the US or Europe to be self sufficient in gas
just as OPEC (= Saudi) cannot allow the price of oil to go below 75 a barrel

And on one level we should understand that, and perhaps leave well alone.

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Re: Good or bad.....Big brother or not??

Post by BlueBag on 11.07.14 9:00

Hmmm... that's quite a conservative view of the labour movement.

This country needed social change and the establishment were not going to provide it any time soon.

Unions and political representation of the lower classes are vital in my book.

Tony Blair put the nail in that coffin back in the 90s.

Hopefully the people will rise again.

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Re: Good or bad.....Big brother or not??

Post by worriedmum on 11.07.14 9:03

I am always suspicious when someone tries to hurry me into a making a decision I have misgivings about on the grounds of
' If I only knew as much as they did, I would realise that it was good for me in the long run.....''

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