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Amanda Knox Retrial? * UPDATE* Trial to go ahead, acquittal overturned

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Re: Amanda Knox Retrial? * UPDATE* Trial to go ahead, acquittal overturned

Post by Joss on 29.03.15 9:39

I agree, it is very sad that there will be no justice in this case as far as Knox & Sollecito's probable involvement in the murder of Meredith. I do wonder though why Guede who is the only one doing time for the murder ongoingly, has not told the truth of what really happened that day? If he bears guilt then surely he would know how it all went down? I hope if he is witholding vital information about the others being involved he will one day tell the truth about it all, so that justice can be served properly for Meredith and her family.

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Re: Amanda Knox Retrial? * UPDATE* Trial to go ahead, acquittal overturned

Post by Joss on 29.03.15 10:27

I am hoping that the Kerchers can sue for wrongful killing of their daughter against the Italian State? Violation of Meredith's Civil rights etc.

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Re: Amanda Knox Retrial? * UPDATE* Trial to go ahead, acquittal overturned

Post by Sam S on 29.03.15 10:53

Knox tried her best to squeeze a tear out in that interview.....but like most sociopaths, failed, and looked uncomfortable trying to show fake emotion.IMO.

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Re: Amanda Knox Retrial? * UPDATE* Trial to go ahead, acquittal overturned

Post by Joss on 29.03.15 12:08

I guess the only thing not in favor of Knox is that 50% of people believe she was involved in murder and will always be looked upon as a murderer, and that no matter what she does she has had a criminal record, or does that get wiped now? What a travesty.
This was interesting too, not sure if it has been posted or not?


http://www.eyesforlies.com/blog/2015/03/amanda-knox-speaks-out-2/
The first words out of my mouth after hearing Amanda Knox speak are “WOW”.
I am utterly stunned at her responses, but Amanda has not fit the part that she has portrayed from day one, and this is just another instance.
Imagine you were wrongly accused, locked up for several years, supposedly hit by authorities, had to endure multiple trials of all lies, and finally, you were set free.
Would you feel “gratitude” after having to suffer for years and be looked at as a murderer due to an atrocious foreign injustice??
I don’t think so.
I watched Amanda and looked for any signs of pain for all the injustices she supposedly endured, and there are none. She didn’t have it when she first arrived home from her Italian prison, either. It was oddly and always missing.
Amanda only stressed when she tried to get people to believe her.
Amanda is so relieved, so free of any pain to support that she suffered the injustices she wants us to believe.
If Amanda was guilty, however, her behavior makes total sense.

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Re: Amanda Knox Retrial? * UPDATE* Trial to go ahead, acquittal overturned

Post by MRNOODLES on 29.03.15 13:36

@Tony Bennett wrote:
@Hobs wrote:
Knox's own words reveal her involvement.
Thank you very much for this brilliant post, Hobs - and thank you so much also for the insight you've brought to us on other important cases. yes

We are very fortunate to have available, free of charge, the forensic skills you bring to statement analysis.

I know others agree that we have learned much from you  thanks thanks

Too right, a flippin' amazing post. clapping clapping

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Re: Amanda Knox Retrial? * UPDATE* Trial to go ahead, acquittal overturned

Post by Guest on 29.03.15 13:47

I think we should also thank Peter Hyatt as it was his analysis that Hobs posted.  Fascinating topic.

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Re: Amanda Knox Retrial? * UPDATE* Trial to go ahead, acquittal overturned

Post by aiyoyo on 29.03.15 14:00

@Joss wrote:I guess the only thing not in favor of Knox is that 50% of people believe she was involved in murder and will always be looked upon as a murderer, and that no matter what she does she has had a criminal record, or does that get wiped now? What a travesty.
This was interesting too, not sure if it has been posted or not?
Apart from the Americans, most people in the world believe she is guilty.

She will be seen in the same way OJ Simpson was seen.

OJ Simpson is and never has been free from the public jury that he is guilty even though he was acquitted.

Two courts convicting her of murder is pretty damning.

What transpired at the Court of Cassation to arrive this conclusion is a mystery.  

I say that because even SR team was not confident they would be acquitted hence their last minute attempt to have SR tried separately from Knox.  He had wanted to change his testimony to contravene the original one he'd given, that alone tells us he lied.  No innocent needs to lie about timeline or keep changing timeline to fit a scenario.

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Re: Amanda Knox Retrial? * UPDATE* Trial to go ahead, acquittal overturned

Post by Joss on 29.03.15 14:06

Ladyinred wrote:I think we should also thank Peter Hyatt as it was his analysis that Hobs posted.  Fascinating topic.
Yep, Peter Hyatt does some amazing analysis of criminals and have read his stuff before on other cases. It is pretty in depth and a very interesting subject.

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Re: Amanda Knox Retrial? * UPDATE* Trial to go ahead, acquittal overturned

Post by Joss on 29.03.15 14:16

@aiyoyo wrote:
@Joss wrote:I guess the only thing not in favor of Knox is that 50% of people believe she was involved in murder and will always be looked upon as a murderer, and that no matter what she does she has had a criminal record, or does that get wiped now? What a travesty.
This was interesting too, not sure if it has been posted or not?
Apart from the Americans, most people in the world believe she is guilty.

She will be seen in the same way OJ Simpson was seen.

OJ Simpson is and never has been free from the public jury that he is guilty even though he was acquitted.

Two courts convicting her of murder is pretty damning.

What transpired at the Court of Cassation to arrive this conclusion is a mystery.  

I say that because even SR team was not confident they would be acquitted hence their last minute attempt to have SR tried separately from Knox.  He had wanted to change his testimony to contravene the original one he'd given, that alone tells us he lied.  No innocent needs to lie about timeline or keep changing timeline to fit a scenario.
Yes exactly, just because someone is acquitted of a crime doesn't mean they are Innocent. It is unreal at the way some of the judicial systems have worked in the last few years, and the acquittal in some high profile cases where the evidence is very incriminating against the perp/s, and i guess its not enough sometimes. But then again on the other hand it doesn't surprise me at all with the corrupted systems we all live under, the world is ass backwards. How can they get it so wrong if not purposefully?

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Re: Amanda Knox Retrial? * UPDATE* Trial to go ahead, acquittal overturned

Post by Joss on 29.03.15 16:19

I am posting this video of Meredith Kercher that she features in before her death as a tribute to her beautiful spirit for those of you that haven't seen it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_B7qGMtyDIg

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Re: Amanda Knox Retrial? * UPDATE* Trial to go ahead, acquittal overturned

Post by lj on 29.03.15 16:47

@Joss wrote:I guess the only thing not in favor of Knox is that 50% of people believe she was involved in murder and will always be looked upon as a murderer, and that no matter what she does she has had a criminal record, or does that get wiped now? What a travesty.
This was interesting too, not sure if it has been posted or not?


http://www.eyesforlies.com/blog/2015/03/amanda-knox-speaks-out-2/
The first words out of my mouth after hearing Amanda Knox speak are “WOW”.
I am utterly stunned at her responses, but Amanda has not fit the part that she has portrayed from day one, and this is just another instance.
Imagine you were wrongly accused, locked up for several years, supposedly hit by authorities, had to endure multiple trials of all lies, and finally, you were set free.
Would you feel “gratitude” after having to suffer for years and be looked at as a murderer due to an atrocious foreign injustice??
I don’t think so.
I watched Amanda and looked for any signs of pain for all the injustices she supposedly endured, and there are none. She didn’t have it when she first arrived home from her Italian prison, either. It was oddly and always missing.
Amanda only stressed when she tried to get people to believe her.
Amanda is so relieved, so free of any pain to support that she suffered the injustices she wants us to believe.
If Amanda was guilty, however, her behavior makes total sense.
Great post and indeed, all her behavior makes sense if she is guilty. I still believe she is. 
Sadly I do believe her personality disorder(s) might bring her in trouble again somewhere in her life. Likely, as happened in this case imo, when she is again under the influence of whatever drug will be her favorite at that time. sad for the next victim.

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Re: Amanda Knox Retrial? * UPDATE* Trial to go ahead, acquittal overturned

Post by aiyoyo on 29.03.15 19:01

It's rather ODD she never once asked Police to keep searching for the other killers, not even after her acquittal.   It's as if she didn't care that her friend was murdered in such a brutal way, and deserved justice to be returned to her. Nor did she show concerns or empathy to MK's family.

She was very cold about it.  Very strange.

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Re: Amanda Knox Retrial? * UPDATE* Trial to go ahead, acquittal overturned

Post by Varriott on 30.03.15 17:09

I have always seen this case as two stoned kids who couldn't quite remember the night in question. I can't come up with any conceivable scenario where they would have "sex games" with knives or get involved with a petty drug dealer with a history of breaking into people's houses. The total lack of reliable forensic evidence must also count for something. Guede's DNA was all over the crime scene, and Knox's and Sollecito's wasn't. And while I think a lot of insight is to be gained from statement analysis, this seems to be going way too far and is like interpreting dreams. Indicators of sexual homicide? Really?

Deception, in order to be deception, must be willful.  Amanda Knox places herself at the scene of a crime, and then gives indicators of a sexual homicide. 
In truth, I do not remember exactly what day it was, but I do remember that we had a shower and we washed ourselves for a long time. He cleaned my ears, he dried and combed my hair.

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Re: Amanda Knox Retrial? * UPDATE* Trial to go ahead, acquittal overturned

Post by Joss on 02.04.15 18:14

From what i have read at the True Justice for Meredith site, Knox & Sollecito won't get a cent from Italy as they knowingly lied to police initially in the case. Knox has spent the 3 yrs. in jail for it, and Sollecito admitted he lied to police.

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Re: Amanda Knox Retrial? * UPDATE* Trial to go ahead, acquittal overturned

Post by Joss on 02.04.15 18:20

@Varriott wrote:I have always seen this case as two stoned kids who couldn't quite remember the night in question. I can't come up with any conceivable scenario where they would have "sex games" with knives or get involved with a petty drug dealer with a history of breaking into people's houses. The total lack of reliable forensic evidence must also count for something. Guede's DNA was all over the crime scene, and Knox's and Sollecito's wasn't. And while I think a lot of insight is to be gained from statement analysis, this seems to be going way too far and is like interpreting dreams. Indicators of sexual homicide? Really?

Deception, in order to be deception, must be willful.  Amanda Knox places herself at the scene of a crime, and then gives indicators of a sexual homicide. 
In truth, I do not remember exactly what day it was, but I do remember that we had a shower and we washed ourselves for a long time. He cleaned my ears, he dried and combed my hair.
There is actually evidence against the pair, and it was established also by the Defense that there were more than one person involved in the murder of Meredith Kercher. And also Knox & Sollecito don't have alibis for the time in question, So if not Knox & Sollecito who else along with Guede killed her? No one else was ever implicated in the crime.

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Re: Amanda Knox Retrial? * UPDATE* Trial to go ahead, acquittal overturned

Post by Varriott on 02.04.15 19:01

@Joss wrote:[quote=[snipped] and it was established also by the Defense that there were more than one person involved in the murder of Meredith Kercher. ]
[/quote]

This is an interesting passive voice sentence. What's the evidence that more than one person was involved? What kind of evidence could there possibly be that more than one person was involved? My understanding is that when Guede spoke on an intercepted Skype call when he was on the run in Germany, he said he did the crime alone. Why not just believe him? Only when the prosecution needed his co-operation did he start to talk about others being there.

Knox and Sollecito are each other's alibis. I agree that this doesn't make them definitely innocent. At the same time, it doesn't make them definitely guilty.

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Re: Amanda Knox Retrial? * UPDATE* Trial to go ahead, acquittal overturned

Post by Guest on 02.04.15 20:22

On air now: Radio 4, The Murder of Meredith Kercher

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b05nxn0d

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Re: Amanda Knox Retrial? * UPDATE* Trial to go ahead, acquittal overturned

Post by Joss on 03.04.15 5:00

Varriott, I think this might answer all your questions, lots of reading for you though:

Click To Get There

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Re: Amanda Knox Retrial? * UPDATE* Trial to go ahead, acquittal overturned

Post by Joss on 03.04.15 8:51


  • Saturday March 28: The Judges who annulled the conviction are quoted in today's edition of the Guardian as saying that Rudy Guede did not act alone but that the identity of Guede's accomplices has yet to be discovered. We find that anyone who takes the time to read the evidence will disagree with them. An investigation into the identity of these unknown accomplices has not been opened.
  • The court annulled the conviction of Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito. We are disappointed in this surprising outcome and our sympathies are with the Kercher family.
  • http://themurderofmeredithkercher.com/Main_Page



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Re: Amanda Knox Retrial? * UPDATE* Trial to go ahead, acquittal overturned

Post by Joss on 03.04.15 8:57

It is going to be very interesting to read The Motivation report for the March 27 annulment will be available in 90 days in translated version to see exactly why there was an annulment of previous upheld convictions of Knox & Sollecito in the murder of Meredith Kercher. Lots of questions right now as to this decision by the SC.

ETA, I guess the case is still open then as to who the mystery accomplices were that helped Guede murder Meredith? They are still out there on the loose after all  and could kill again. Hope the authorities are still investigating wtf2  I call BS.

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Re: Amanda Knox Retrial? * UPDATE* Trial to go ahead, acquittal overturned

Post by ChippyM on 03.04.15 12:03

@Joss wrote:

  • Saturday March 28: The Judges who annulled the conviction are quoted in today's edition of the Guardian as saying that Rudy Guede did not act alone but that the identity of Guede's accomplices has yet to be discovered. We find that anyone who takes the time to read the evidence will disagree with them. An investigation into the identity of these unknown accomplices has not been opened.
  • The court annulled the conviction of Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito. We are disappointed in this surprising outcome and our sympathies are with the Kercher family.
  • http://themurderofmeredithkercher.com/Main_Page



 

I don't see that quote in the Guardian, unless I'm mistaken.  To me it reads as the judges saying Guede probably was alone

"
The decision means that legally only one man is considered guilty of Kercher’s murder: Rudy Guede, a drifter from Ivory Coast who is nearly halfway through a 16-year prison sentence for her murder following a fast-track trial in 2008. At the time of his conviction, it was stated that he did not act alone.
Most legal experts had expected that both of the defendants’ prior murder convictions would be upheld, or that Sollecito alone would be granted a new trial because of weak evidence against him.
But the decision to acquit both underscored the persistent questions that surrounded the case from the moment the pair were arrested.
Lawyers for both Knox, 27, and Sollecito, 31, forcefully argued that the facts did not add up, that the evidence was tainted, that there was a lack of a clear motive, and that Italian investigators had pursued the case as if it were a witch-hunt.
The judges agreed: in their verdict, they did not just state that there was not enough evidence to convict the pair. They said that neither Knox nor Sollecito had killed Kercher"

I agree with the ealier poster on this case and think the full explanation will probably revolve around lack of DNA evidence.

  Forensics at the scene were filmed using bad practices and clothing was moved about the house which could transfer DNA. There were also 'bloody footprints' attributed to Knox submitted as evidence that turned out not to have been tested for blood by forensics!
 The prosecutions argument against none of Knox's DNA being found anywhere near the victim was a clean up had taken place but they can't explain how every single print from Knox and Sollecito could have been cleaned whilst leaving all of Guedes.

 Some say that a break-in was staged but why couldn't Guede have done that? He had a motive because his main defence is that he was with Meredith at her invitation. If he got into the house for another purpose, ie. a sexually motivated crime, it is his only real defence was to claim some one broke in and killed Meredith for mysterious reasons. The front door apparently did not lock well so he could have got in that way. He never uses the defence that Knox and Sollecito were the murderers, he was convieniently on the toilet with earphones in and said in court he 'felt' they were the one's there?!  If they were there, why not just blame them outright?

   The only evidence against Knox and Sollecito is their statements and the defence has given quite plausible explanations of why they occured.

 I do find the focus on 'Foxy Knoxy' by the public and media quite disturbing. Why did the convicted murderer or Sollecito not get a loaded nickname, why only the female of the trio?  Even when the prosecution say that Knox's motivation changed from sexual deviancy to being stingy about money, she still gets the treatment.  Even this thread title is just about Knox!

I think the full explanation to come will be that Guede, who's DNA proves he had sexual contact with the victim as she was dying, was the only person responsible.

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Re: Amanda Knox Retrial? * UPDATE* Trial to go ahead, acquittal overturned

Post by Joss on 03.04.15 16:43

Problems with single attacker hypothesis in general


  1. Ms. Kercher screamed only once, indicating her mouth was being covered for most of the attack.
  2. Monacchia heard a man and woman shouting before Ms. Kercher’s scream.
  3. Capezzali heard footsteps running in different directions from the cottage after the scream.
  4. Ms. Kercher had taken martial arts courses and was physically strong.
  5. Yet, Ms. Kercher sustained very few and very minor defensive wounds. Typically, victims of a single assailant knife attack have far more defensive wounds.
  6. Knife wounds and bruises around the neck and face indicate the attack was prolonged and not a quick ‘blitz attack’.
  7. Ms. Kercher was sexually assaulted during the attack, not afterwards, as indicated by internal bruising, and testified to by two doctors.
  8. Some of Ms. Kercher’s clothing was removed during the attack. A single attacker could not restrain Ms. Kercher while removing her clothing, and covering her mouth.
  9. Someone came back after she was dead to rearrange the crime scene: remove Ms. Kercher’s bra; move her body onto the pillow; cover her with the duvet; go through her purse; throw receipts from her purse onto the duvet; place the purse on her bed; close the door; lock the door and take the key and not leave any bloody shoeprints of this.
  10. Someone wiped the bathroom and corridor floor so that the bathmat had only half a footprint, and other blood stains and bloodied footprints were revealed with Luminol.
  11. http://themurderofmeredithkercher.com/Evidence_List#Ms._Kercher.E2.80.99s_room

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Re: Amanda Knox Retrial? * UPDATE* Trial to go ahead, acquittal overturned

Post by Joss on 03.04.15 16:47

Luminol traces

(Dr. Stefanoni Genetic Test, SAL report, Dr. Stefanoni slide presentation)

  1. 1 sample of a Luminol-revealed blood trace was taken from Guede’s apartment.
  2. 9 samples of Luminol-revealed blood traces were taken from the cottage, including Knox’s room, the corridor and Romanelli’s room.
  3. Knox's and Ms. Kercher's DNA was found on the Luminol-revealed blood stain in Romanelli's room.
  4. Knox's and Ms. Kercher's DNA was found mixed in a Luminol-revealed bloody right footprint in the corridor.
  5. 14 samples of Luminol-revealed blood traces were taken from Sollecito's apartment.
  6. 6 samples were taken from Sollecito’s bathroom, including the door, floor and shower basin.
  7. 3 samples were taken from Sollecito’s bedroom, including the door and floor.
  8. 5 samples were taken from the floor of Sollecito’s kitchen.
  9. 2 of the Luminol-revealed samples taken from Sollecito’s apartment yielded DNA compatible with a mixture of Sollecito’s and Knox’s DNA. 1 sample yielded DNA compatible with Knox’s DNA.
  10. 1 sample yielded an unknown male’s DNA (unmatchable).

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Re: Amanda Knox Retrial? * UPDATE* Trial to go ahead, acquittal overturned

Post by Joss on 03.04.15 17:19

@ChippyM wrote:
@Joss wrote:

  • Saturday March 28: The Judges who annulled the conviction are quoted in today's edition of the Guardian as saying that Rudy Guede did not act alone but that the identity of Guede's accomplices has yet to be discovered. We find that anyone who takes the time to read the evidence will disagree with them. An investigation into the identity of these unknown accomplices has not been opened.
  • The court annulled the conviction of Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito. We are disappointed in this surprising outcome and our sympathies are with the Kercher family.
  • http://themurderofmeredithkercher.com/Main_Page



 

I don't see that quote in the Guardian, unless I'm mistaken.  To me it reads as the judges saying Guede probably was alone

"
The decision means that legally only one man is considered guilty of Kercher’s murder: Rudy Guede, a drifter from Ivory Coast who is nearly halfway through a 16-year prison sentence for her murder following a fast-track trial in 2008. At the time of his conviction, it was stated that he did not act alone.
Most legal experts had expected that both of the defendants’ prior murder convictions would be upheld, or that Sollecito alone would be granted a new trial because of weak evidence against him.
But the decision to acquit both underscored the persistent questions that surrounded the case from the moment the pair were arrested.
Lawyers for both Knox, 27, and Sollecito, 31, forcefully argued that the facts did not add up, that the evidence was tainted, that there was a lack of a clear motive, and that Italian investigators had pursued the case as if it were a witch-hunt.
The judges agreed: in their verdict, they did not just state that there was not enough evidence to convict the pair. They said that neither Knox nor Sollecito had killed Kercher"

I agree with the ealier poster on this case and think the full explanation will probably revolve around lack of DNA evidence.

  Forensics at the scene were filmed using bad practices and clothing was moved about the house which could transfer DNA. There were also 'bloody footprints' attributed to Knox submitted as evidence that turned out not to have been tested for blood by forensics!
 The prosecutions argument against none of Knox's DNA being found anywhere near the victim was a clean up had taken place but they can't explain how every single print from Knox and Sollecito could have been cleaned whilst leaving all of Guedes.

 Some say that a break-in was staged but why couldn't Guede have done that? He had a motive because his main defence is that he was with Meredith at her invitation. If he got into the house for another purpose, ie. a sexually motivated crime, it is his only real defence was to claim some one broke in and killed Meredith for mysterious reasons. The front door apparently did not lock well so he could have got in that way. He never uses the defence that Knox and Sollecito were the murderers, he was convieniently on the toilet with earphones in and said in court he 'felt' they were the one's there?!  If they were there, why not just blame them outright?

   The only evidence against Knox and Sollecito is their statements and the defence has given quite plausible explanations of why they occured.

 I do find the focus on 'Foxy Knoxy' by the public and media quite disturbing. Why did the convicted murderer or Sollecito not get a loaded nickname, why only the female of the trio?  Even when the prosecution say that Knox's motivation changed from sexual deviancy to being stingy about money, she still gets the treatment.  Even this thread title is just about Knox!

I think the full explanation to come will be that Guede, who's DNA proves he had sexual contact with the victim as she was dying, was the only person responsible.
It was a point that was emphasised by a devastated Francesco Maresca, the attorney for the Kercher family.
Speaking outside the court on Friday night, he said: “This is not so much a defeat for the prosecution as a defeat for Italy’s justice system. The judges said there is a lack of proof, and whoever acted with Guede has not been found.”
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/mar/28/meredith-kercher-amanda-knox-raffaele-sollecito-italy-case







Other biological traces

(Dr. Stefanoni Genetic Test, SAL report, Dr. Stefanoni slide presentation)

  1. No semen was found in Ms. Kercher.



So what was the evidence that linked Guede to the victim sexually? DNA testing did find Sollecito's DNA on the bra clasp though.

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