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The controversial Gaspar Statement

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Re: The controversial Gaspar Statement

Post by jd on 28.07.12 23:38

Words just fail me with kate mccanns "...'perfect little genitals' being ripped apart..."

I agree with ProfessorPPlum, you cannot ignore the possibilities as they do happen, frighteningly too much. Infact it is quite common

why would someone cover up an accidental death?' Possibly because the body of Madeleine McCann threatened to reveal a truth
...This is exactly it: Abduction = No Body


16th May 2007 ....... Gaspar statement is made

16th May 2007.......Philomena McCann visited the British Government in Westminster, London. Notably she visited the Chancellor, Gordon Brown

16th May 2007....... The official Madeleine Fund (Madeleine’s Fund: Leaving No Stone Unturned Limited) was being launched in Leicester at the Walkers Stadium

Quite a significant day the 16th May 2007

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Re: The controversial Gaspar Statement

Post by Guest on 28.07.12 23:59

I agree that something cannot be discounted just because the idea is too horrific.

Speaking generally, there is no level of depravity to which some people will not sink and, for me what is the most disturbing thing, their chances of being brought to account seem to be dependant on whether or not they can call in favours from people in high places.

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Re: The controversial Gaspar Statement

Post by Willo on 29.07.12 2:56

I too hate to think of the possibility of Madeleine being sexually abused but it has always been present right from the start. It is a taboo subject and to accuse anyone of paedophilia one must be really sure of ones facts. There are many stories of innocent people being accused and some people have been wrongly targeted by vigilanties outside of court. I even seem to remember a paeditrician being hassled by some numbskulls. So it is a very touchy subject and to be innocent and named as a potential paedophile would be devastating to anybody. So the Gaspars, educated and aware must have thought long and hard before giving their statement. They would have been very sure of their ground to do so. But in the end it seems to no avail.

The various child welfare organisations along with the police obviously must investigate every accusation thoroughly, I really do wonder how far this accusation got? I've never heard of Mr Payne being investigated, in fact come to think of it I haven't heard anything reported from him since the first few weeks of the drama either. He has gone to ground.

Which begs the point, why has David Payne not issued a denial or even contested the Gaspar's statement? Or even sued them, as seems the norm, for slighting his character in this way? Surely he would want to refute such terrible remarks. But then it has not been widely reported in his home country (I wonder why?) and he knows he is protected by the English press at the moment but one day I'm sure that Gaspar staement will become common knowledge even in England, how will it look then that he didn't jump up and down in the first instance years ago?

Is he beyond investigation? The last three, or is it four, heads of government would all know that Payne was named by the Gaspars. Was nothing followed up because it could lead any investigators to the heart of something very horrible? Something they know will destroy their livelihoods. Something that could expose those guilty Lords, MP's, Judges, Commisioners, Millionaires, Doctors etc some who it seems have some very strange and highly illegal practices. The mere fact of covering for these evil people to me makes those very Prime Ministers just as guilty as the perpetrators.

It is all around us. Jersey, Scotland, Ireland, orphanages, Catholic institutions and the rest. Lost paperwork, files missing, denials, lack of investigations, threats, false evidence, murders, silence, selective police action, suicides?, missing persons, withheld evidence and many more abhorrent tactics used to bury any threat that would implicate the wrong people. I think a lot of these scandals that surface involve the same people. I think it is a relatively small group (1000's+) of very powerful people. It is a club as such, where opportunities are passed on and shared with guaranteed anominity (probably for a price). Their tentacles reach into the very heart of society and have spread so much so that they control all that could bring them down.

We, Joe public, can see somethings is amiss. It is so obvious to us. What can we do? We can do nothing. We are ignored. We can petition. We can write to MP's. We can bring private prosecutions, but these options don't work. Any public enquiries and police reviews are a joke. We can blog, discuss, theorise till the cows come home but nothing will change. I would like to think that there would be a few decent men/women in positions of power who would stand up and challenge this evil club. Are they all so meek? Are they frightened? Are they blind? It's so frustrating!! The Madeleine case has shown us brief glimpses of corruption behind the scenes. This I'm sure is the tip of the iceberg in this and many other cases. All this bullshit needs to stop. If one strong person blew the whistle on these scum it would save hundreds of children from harm in the future and help take off the street as many abusers that loiter in the upper echelons of society as possible. It might also save the country the cost of repelling a physical rebellion, which as the years roll on, seems the only way to rid the country of the evil that has taken control.

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Re: The controversial Gaspar Statement

Post by tigger on 29.07.12 6:29

Attaboy Willo!

Only want to add this: abusers often have been abused themselves - to what extend I'd think doesn't matter. The abuse doesn't need to go 'all the way' for the perception of what is normal behaviour and what isn't to be skewed.

Apart from the main 'players' here, there are a number of people on the sidelines here who give me the creeps.

Page 129 was a grave mistake on all levels imo. No mother could allow herself to even think that, leave alone write it down for all the world to see. Because even if one did have such graphic images in one's mind, writing and publishing it would make it real.

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Re: The controversial Gaspar Statement

Post by tigger on 29.07.12 8:36

@jd wrote:Words just fail me with kate mccanns "...'perfect little genitals' being ripped apart..."

I agree with ProfessorPPlum, you cannot ignore the possibilities as they do happen, frighteningly too much. Infact it is quite common

why would someone cover up an accidental death?' Possibly because the body of Madeleine McCann threatened to reveal a truth
...This is exactly it: Abduction = No Body


16th May 2007 ....... Gaspar statement is made

16th May 2007.......Philomena McCann visited the British Government in Westminster, London. Notably she visited the Chancellor, Gordon Brown

16th May 2007....... The official Madeleine Fund (Madeleine’s Fund: Leaving No Stone Unturned Limited) was being launched in Leicester at the Walkers Stadium

Quite a significant day the 16th May 2007

There is just nothing about that phrase that is excusable - the first three words alone without the verb should never be printed or even thought! by a mother. That part of the anatomy of a child in particular would only be discussed if there was a reason, something which needed medical intervention to correct.
What mother would ever regard that particular part of her child's body as particularly perfect?

When a child is born it is checked for anomalies, ten fingers, check, ten toes - check, etc. That should be it.

The public in general has been conditioned by ever more sensational images of sex and violence, CSI-type shots of bodies in all states of decomposition and results of violence on living and dead bodies.
The 'abused child' image of fashion models are still everywhere in the public eye.

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Re: The controversial Gaspar Statement

Post by Nina on 29.07.12 10:03

@tigger wrote:
@jd wrote:Words just fail me with kate mccanns "...'perfect little genitals' being ripped apart..."

I agree with ProfessorPPlum, you cannot ignore the possibilities as they do happen, frighteningly too much. Infact it is quite common

why would someone cover up an accidental death?' Possibly because the body of Madeleine McCann threatened to reveal a truth
...This is exactly it: Abduction = No Body


16th May 2007 ....... Gaspar statement is made

16th May 2007.......Philomena McCann visited the British Government in Westminster, London. Notably she visited the Chancellor, Gordon Brown

16th May 2007....... The official Madeleine Fund (Madeleine’s Fund: Leaving No Stone Unturned Limited) was being launched in Leicester at the Walkers Stadium

Quite a significant day the 16th May 2007

There is just nothing about that phrase that is excusable - the first three words alone without the verb should never be printed or even thought! by a mother. That part of the anatomy of a child in particular would only be discussed if there was a reason, something which needed medical intervention to correct.
What mother would ever regard that particular part of her child's body as particularly perfect?

When a child is born it is checked for anomalies, ten fingers, check, ten toes - check, etc. That should be it.

The public in general has been conditioned by ever more sensational images of sex and violence, CSI-type shots of bodies in all states of decomposition and results of violence on living and dead bodies.
The 'abused child' image of fashion models are still everywhere in the public eye.
How did she know they were 'perfect genitals' ? Any mother who posts on here, or father for that matter as nappy changing and bathing can be by either, would any of you with son or daughter say they had 'perfect genitals'? Yes you would know if there was some medical problem with this part of the child's body, so would that then make them imperfect?
And then to go further and say torn apart. In my opinion this wasn't a dreadful fear or vivid imagination it was a known.

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Re: The controversial Gaspar Statement

Post by tuom on 29.07.12 22:01

I do agree that the comments on page 129 are alarming , and I often wonder if this book was checked and what kind of advice KMC would have got on the various dubios parts of the book. There are a lot of phrases in the book when the words "loving" "caring" "perfect" "perfection" "admiring" , all lovely words from Mummy to Daughter but in the book they are not used in the sense that I as a Mother would use in that context.

As a Mother the pg 129 shocked me , the description shocked me as a Mother , that if I had thoughts of this nature regarding my missing child I as a Mother would never used those words , As a Mother the Gaspar Statement shocked me and I cannot understand why Ms.Gasper (as a Mother) did not immediately say WTF are you talking about ? , the Gaspars , again I am not sure what to think.

Am I being niave in thinking that parents and friends could do something so unthinkable to a little girl ? Maybe it is I as a Mother am being prevented from letting myself take those last few steps from an accidental death and a cover up to something more sinister , I do of course keep and open mind and am not as well read on the case as other posters so perhaps I may be missing snippets , however I will continue to read and hope that like everyone else her that there will be justice in some way for MMC.

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Re: The controversial Gaspar Statement

Post by ProfessorPPlum on 29.07.12 23:35

The point I was making is that if you believe MBM died an accidental death then you can't avoid looking into the 'abyss'. There's no way that fear of repercussions of their neglect alone would overcome the grief at the loss of their child and the horror of the actual, physical practicalities required to dispose of her pitiful little body in a far away place.

Staging abduction and disposing of a body is the mark of someone responsible for the death of a child. If you genuinely don't think they are responsible for MBM's death, then you need to explain what it is that drove her parents AND their friends to collude together to stage an abduction and dispose of her body. It's not pretty but it's an essential logical step you have to take. There's only one reason to risk jail for disposing of the body of a child you didn't kill and that is if not disposing of it will definitely land you in jail.

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Re: The controversial Gaspar Statement

Post by Olive_Boyle on 30.07.12 23:55

I go along with Tuoms theory of this.

The reason I think that they did not want her body found is because she had previously, and on the night of 3 May, been drugged up to the eyeballs with sedative to make her sleep.

So if her death was only an accident the autopsy would show this - I presume this would be seen as manslaughter - and the McCann's knew it. That is why they had to get rid of her body and the evidence.

I don't go along with any more devious theories.

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Re: The controversial Gaspar Statement

Post by One on 31.07.12 17:45

I think the question needs to be raised for a few reasons in particular the Gasper Statement, P129 and the photos that they published in 2010. And there are Kate's unfortunate slip ups like "pleasing her" and "admiring her" that don't sit easily. It's difficult to think about because the little mite went through enough.

I think it's one thing to behave in the way that the Gaspers highlighted but it's another for 9 adults to be party to the physical abuse of a 3 year old child and then cover it up particularly when they have children of their own. I doubt little Madeleine would have been singled out and I sincerely hope not.

It's often crossed my mind that it's a set up for another payout and seems incredible to me that the media have never taken the bait.


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Re: The controversial Gaspar Statement

Post by Guest on 31.07.12 18:48

@ProfessorPPlum wrote:The point I was making is that if you believe MBM died an accidental death then you can't avoid looking into the 'abyss'. There's no way that fear of repercussions of their neglect alone would overcome the grief at the loss of their child and the horror of the actual, physical practicalities required to dispose of her pitiful little body in a far away place.

Staging abduction and disposing of a body is the mark of someone responsible for the death of a child. If you genuinely don't think they are responsible for MBM's death, then you need to explain what it is that drove her parents AND their friends to collude together to stage an abduction and dispose of her body. It's not pretty but it's an essential logical step you have to take. There's only one reason to risk jail for disposing of the body of a child you didn't kill and that is if not disposing of it will definitely land you in jail.


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Re: The controversial Gaspar Statement

Post by tigger on 31.07.12 21:42

@Portia wrote:
@ProfessorPPlum wrote:The point I was making is that if you believe MBM died an accidental death then you can't avoid looking into the 'abyss'. There's no way that fear of repercussions of their neglect alone would overcome the grief at the loss of their child and the horror of the actual, physical practicalities required to dispose of her pitiful little body in a far away place.

Staging abduction and disposing of a body is the mark of someone responsible for the death of a child. If you genuinely don't think they are responsible for MBM's death, then you need to explain what it is that drove her parents AND their friends to collude together to stage an abduction and dispose of her body. It's not pretty but it's an essential logical step you have to take. There's only one reason to risk jail for disposing of the body of a child you didn't kill and that is if not disposing of it will definitely land you in jail.


Succinct ! In a nutshell! Thank you! roses

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Re: The controversial Gaspar Statement

Post by tigger on 01.08.12 7:18

From the Vanity Fair interview published January 08:

GM:
'“But I can’t talk to you about the details of what happened. I live under threat from the Portuguese—if I do talk—of two years’ imprisonment.” He smiles grimly. “It seems to be the same sentence as disposing of a child’s body.”

I've just gone through that interview and it's so full of slip ups like the one above (the interview took place in September 07) and contradictions that it's worth another read. So I'll put it in a separate topic.


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Re: The controversial Gaspar Statement

Post by Dr What on 07.02.13 19:34

The whole issue about the Gaspar statement is extraordinary.
Your daughter goes "missing". You are distraught.You believe it is the action of a paedophile.One of your friends makes an allegation to the Police against one of the people you are on holiday with.The allegation concerns potential sexual interest in your daughter who later goes "missing".What do you do? In this case, there is no mention of the allegation, no statements from your representatives about the allegations, no demand that these allegations are investigated fully, no request that no stone is left unturned to delve into the sexual proclivities of someone who had access to your daughter under the guise of a friend.
No real media exposure about this issue that could provide the answer to the entire riddle.Total silence.

Extraordinary.

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Re: The controversial Gaspar Statement

Post by Inspectorfrost on 07.02.13 20:02

Dr What
The conversation and gestures happened between DP and GM according to KG. So there are two possibilities. The half heard conversation was nothing about what KG thought it might mean, so that is why GM has never said or done anything about it. not at the time and not now. The other one is what some people have said could be both DP and GM being paedos. I doubt this very much. JMO





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Re: The controversial Gaspar Statement

Post by Dr What on 07.02.13 20:23

But if you were the mother of a missing daughter, who you were convinced was abducted by paedophiles......wouldn't you want the allegation investigated, raised, or even mentioned in your book that you are writing? If only to eliminate the whole thing for any of your supporters or readers of your book.
No mention at all is extraordinary.

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Re: The controversial Gaspar Statement

Post by Guest on 07.02.13 20:25

@Inspectorfrost wrote:Dr What
The conversation and gestures happened between DP and GM according to KG. So there are two possibilities. The half heard conversation was nothing about what KG thought it might mean, so that is why GM has never said or done anything about it. not at the time and not now. The other one is what some people have said could be both DP and GM being paedos. I doubt this very much. JMO







She was sitting between them.

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Re: The controversial Gaspar Statement

Post by tigger on 07.02.13 20:28

@Inspectorfrost wrote:Dr What
The conversation and gestures happened between DP and GM according to KG. So there are two possibilities. The half heard conversation was nothing about what KG thought it might mean, so that is why GM has never said or done anything about it. not at the time and not now. The other one is what some people have said could be both DP and GM being paedos. I doubt this very much. JMO


The Gaspar statement wasn't passed on to the PJ until about six months later. Why should that be?
The statement should imo not be seen in isolation. We have several photographs of Maddie which are highly questionable, we have Kate writing about Maddie's genitals in the book which was written for the twins.
The photographs in particular which are imo 'paedo candy' are the ice cream/ice lolly photo where the ice cream and arm are photoshopped on and the blue eyeshadow photo which seems to show either bruising or tears. It's very disquieting.
We also have the 'tradition' of the men bathing the children on holiday, which is unusual.


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Re: The controversial Gaspar Statement

Post by Inspectorfrost on 07.02.13 20:30

@ Candyfloss
Yes I know. Very odd. Which should make her sure of what was being said. Perhaps she was having a conversation with someone elae at the time as well. I find this issue very odd on many levels. And the fact that the PJ requested this statement from the LP months later, so theymust have originally had it and lost it or someone tipped them off a statement hadnt been sent?? I have no idea.

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Re: The controversial Gaspar Statement

Post by Guest on 07.02.13 20:31

I don't think I was aware of that, Candyfloss, I assumed she was opposite. It's hard to believe that anyone could have made such a remark in these circumstances but maybe there was New Zealand wine being imbibed!

Tigger, I'd add the "loving and pleasing her" comment to the equation, too.

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Re: The controversial Gaspar Statement

Post by Guest on 07.02.13 20:35

Jean wrote:I don't think I was aware of that, Candyfloss, I assumed she was opposite. It's hard to believe that anyone could have made such a remark in these circumstances but maybe there was New Zealand wine being imbibed!

Tigger, I'd add the "loving and pleasing her" comment to the equation, too.

The statement is on page one of this thread Jean, I have just read it and it is there in bold I think.

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Re: The controversial Gaspar Statement

Post by Dr What on 07.02.13 20:36

To show no interest at all in the allegation, "knowing" that your daughter has been abducted by paedophile[s] is extraordinary.

If this was any other criminal investigation, don't you think that this would figure very high....if only in order to eliminate it.

I repeat, no mention of it is extraordinary.

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Re: The controversial Gaspar Statement

Post by Inspectorfrost on 07.02.13 20:41

@Dr What wrote:To show no interest at all in the allegation, "knowing" that your daughter has been abducted by paedophile[s] is extraordinary.

If this was any other criminal investigation, don't you think that this would figure very high....if only in order to eliminate it.

I repeat, no mention of it is extraordinary.

But if there was nothing in it Gerry would know as he was part of the conversation, that is what I meant.

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Re: The controversial Gaspar Statement

Post by Dr What on 07.02.13 20:47

I'm not sure anyone should take as gospel what anyone says in a potential criminal investigation.

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Re: The controversial Gaspar Statement

Post by Inspectorfrost on 07.02.13 22:25

@Dr What wrote:I'm not sure anyone should take as gospel what anyone says in a potential criminal investigation.

If there was nothing *dodgy* in the conversation between dp and gm why would gm do anything about it then or now? unless you are saying there was which implicates GM in that theory

As for your wouldnt take as gospel, who are you referring to?

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