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Pat's latest.....Find the body and prove we killed her..,

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Pat's latest.....Find the body and prove we killed her..,

Post by Upsy Daisy on 11.03.12 9:27

http://patbrownprofiling.blogspot.com/2012/03/criminal-profiling-topic-of-day-find.html

No body, no case. While this is not always so, it is quite rare to see
homicide or manslaughter charges levied against someone unless there is
exceptionally strong evidence that a person has been killed and there is
also substantial proof of how they were done in and who did it. As it
stands today, we have no such level of proof in the case of missing
Madeleine McCann; what we have is a child who hasn't shown up in five
years, no evidence of abduction, alerts from cadaver dogs, and very
concerning behavior and statements from the McCanns and their friends
and family.

Let me reiterate; I find no proof of abduction nor proof that Maddie is
alive. I believe the evidence more likely supports the theory that
Maddie died in the vacation apartment and her body was removed from
there. If the cadaver dogs are accurate in their alerts that a body was
in the apartment on May 3rd, 2007 and was moved in the hire car that the
McCanns rented weeks later, then the body was hidden locally and moved
to another location at a later date. If we follow this theory, the
following scenario is the one I believe most likely, having now spent
time in Portugal and Praia da Luz.

Following physical and behavioral evidence, I would theorize that Maddie
died in the apartment and lay behind the couch until she was
discovered. With panic ensuing, the body would most likely have been
moved by Gerry in a hurry to a location far enough away from the
apartment to not immediately have suspicion fall upon the parents. This
location would not be very secure, but because of the very limited time
frame Gerry would have had to work with, Maddie would have been simply
hidden in the weeds, or under an object or in an open isolated
structure. Then, I believe with an hour or so to work with in the early
hours of the morning, Gerry may have decided it would behoove him to
find a better hiding location and this I believe is most likely to be in
a gully on the side of the Rocha Negra, accessible from the beach and
full of loose dirt, stones, and rocks that would allow for a quick
burial (see previous blog; On Moving and Hiding Bodies).

Then, when Kate told the PJ that she had a dream about Maddie's body
being on a slab of rock and the cadaver dogs were heading to Praia da
Luz, Gerry might have decided it would be better to find a location away
from the town where she would never be found. Some think the body was
stored in a freezer at some point but I find this unlikely. If there is
some evidence in the vehicle of a body having been on ice, I would be
more likely to believe it was literally on ice in the boot. In other
words, ice was placed in the boot in a bag or bags as a method of
keeping the body cold during transport. Taking the body to an inside
location, storing it in a large freezer, and then moving it yet again
seems like an awful lot of extra moving of the body and, usually, a
person works in the direction of having the body disappear and doesn't
take the risk of bringing the body closer t him and keeping it around
for discovery. Bodies found in freezers or kept in freezers usually have
that location as the first place of rest, not an intermediary one.

There is also speculation that Gerry and Kate might have had a
contingent of helpers outside of the Tapas 7 which I also find hard to
accept. The more people one brings in on a criminal undertaking, the
more likely it is that someone will open their mouth, even accidentally.
Gerry is smart enough to know this is an unacceptable danger (any of
the Tapas 7 knowing anything is bad enough but this may have been
unavoidable and they may have more at stake to keep them quiet than
people uninvolved in the evening of May 3rd and previous days and
nights). He is also controlling enough to want to take care of things as
best he can by himself.

Before coming to Portugal, I entertained a number of possibilities: the
Huelva baths in Spain where the McCanns went just as the cadaver dogs
were
arriving, removal back to the UK, and incineration. Each had its
interesting
possibilities but each also seemed a bit too difficult to accomplish
(although by
no means am I saying such actions would have been impossible) and it is a
pretty good rule of thumb that people do what is easier to manage and
simpler
to pull off. Because of this, I came to two more probable conclusions,
both
involving Gerry driving the body to a location he felt was secluded and
unlikely to be discovered. I was particularly interested in the
activities of the McCann in the days before
the Huelva trip when Gerry's phone pinged repeatedly in an area to the west of Praia da Luz
along the road to Budens, (estre EN125). I also found it interesting that the day he was to
leave for Huelva, he was not feeling well, having a bit of an upset stomach.
This led me to theorize he could have used that day to move the body or to recover
from moving it the day before. I decided when I got to Praia da Luz, I would
take a trip down that road to the west and see whether there were any suitable
places to lose a body forever.

The first place I looked for was the kind of location for a “proper
burial” to occur, a place with some kind of religious significance like an isolated spot
in view of a little chapel so that Kate and Gerry could feel they had done
right by their daughter, a place they could find again and stop by to spend
time with Maddie, to pray for her. Being that Portugal is a heavily Catholic
country, I imagined there might be dozens of small chapels along the route much
as one can find a plethora of little mandirs (temples) in India as one travels
down just about any rural road.



Cemetery on Outskirts of Town
Interestingly, I found none to speak of. I found churches but they were
all
stuck right in the middle of town. I did find a couple of graveyards on
the
outskirts of town which had curious possibilities in that inside the
walls of
these small cemeteries, there were quite a few graves with just a mound
of dirt
over the body rather than a concrete structure; some folks obviously
lacked the money to pay for these nice
amenities and had to bury their loved ones in a very simple fashion.
When they came into more money, they could then top the grave site with a
proper tombstone. In theory, if one could access
such a location, one could bury a small body in an already dug grave,
put
back the displaced dirt and no one would be the wiser that the grave
contained
an extra corpse. Not a bad concept, but these graveyards appeared to be
locked
and monitored, so one would have to scale the walls to get in. Possible?
Yes,
but not probable.

















So,
I found no really good location within the ping area for Gerry to give
Maddie a spiritual resting place. I did find an interesting spot,
however, that I thought might have stood in nicely as it had a beautiful
view which included the Rocha Negra in the distance.






And up at the top of a hill overlooking the spot,
there appeared to be a cross which would lend some special religious
significance, like God looking down upon Madeleine in her final resting
place. This location, the Forte de Almadena, is open to
the public down a short road that one can access after dark. During the
day, there appear to be times when no one is there.



There are the remains of a fort and,
nearby, odd mounds of soft dirt that actually already look like a set of
graves. Retired British police officer, PM, and I brought out the metal
detector and spade and investigated a number of them.







The metal detector found nothing. Since it was possible Maddie could have
been buried in the oft-discussed missing sports bag, I was wanting to see if
the detector would find any metal, metal that might be on that bag. If Maddie's body were buried shallowly under
the ground in a sports bag, metal rings attaching a strap or metal zippers (although zippers
these days are almost all vinyl) could set off the metal detector. Unfortunately, it remained silent.




Then PM dug trenches across the mounds; we
found nothing. Then we drove up to look at the cross we saw on the hill; it
turned out to be a windsock. So much for the religious significance, although,
if we thought it was a cross, so could Gerry.



Does that mean Maddie couldn’t be buried at the Fort? No, it is still
possible. There is a bit of land around it that we did not have the time to
totally explore. But, then, I found a better place.

Gerry seemed to be on that road west over a period of three days which
to date has not been explained. Was he looking and looking for a spot to
bury a body? Driving off
the main road to see if there was a good place to move Maddie to? PM and
I found
an excellent place within hours of leaving Praia da Luz, so I see no
reason why
Gerry couldn’t have found it as well. However, there is no religious
significance to this location; it would simply be a great place to hide a
body
and never have it discovered.

Would he choose this? Part of me fought against
it, thinking these parents, especially Kate, would find comfort and some validation
as good parents and Christians if they buried Maddie in a religious place of
some kind. However, Gerry seems to be quite practical and rather cold and
calculating and he simply may have decided, Kate’s feelings be damned, that
making sure the body was never found was of paramount importance and they would
have to live with it.

Monte do Jose Mestre. This huge, desolate area covers many square metres and is filled
with a considerable network of dirt roads. Looking down on the area from atop the highest hill is a row of windmills.
Small trees and bushes are scattered throughout and the dirt is not impossible
to dig in. Gerry had just returned from England and I wouldn’t be surprised, if
he is involved in disposing of Maddie’s body, that he brought a small shovel
back with him, one that could be tossed into the bushes when he finished
digging the grave or thrown away in a dumpster on the way back to Praia da Luz.
If the body is buried out there, it would be unlikely to ever be found unless a
large contingent of searchers and dogs descended upon the area and then it would
still be pretty lucky if they located a grave. I hope, however, this is done
sometime in the future. I would like to know if Maddie is there or not.

Views of Monte do Jose Mestre below.















Criminal Profiler Pat Brown

NOW on Amazon Kindle for $2.99! Only the Truth, my newest book, a literary mystery. Enjoy!

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Re: Pat's latest.....Find the body and prove we killed her..,

Post by Upsy Daisy on 11.03.12 9:29

will have to run as we are off to a birthday party today so haven't digested this properly but look forward to reading it later and catching up with all the comments.

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Re: Pat's latest.....Find the body and prove we killed her..,

Post by puzzled on 11.03.12 11:02

any suitable places to lose a body forever.

There seems to be a very convenient place in the area where you could lose a body forever - the Atlantic Ocean.

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Re: Pat's latest.....Find the body and prove we killed her..,

Post by Guest on 12.03.12 9:43

Tweet from Pat Brown.........


Dawn‏@dawnltdr

@ProfilerPatB great post Pat, with all that's in the papers lately, we may finally see justice for Madeleine. Keep up the fantastic work x




PAT BROWN‏@ProfilerPatB

@dawnltdr I wouldn't hold your breath. I don't think we are seeing progress; I think we are seeing spin.




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Re: Pat's latest.....Find the body and prove we killed her..,

Post by Me on 12.03.12 9:57

candyfloss wrote:Tweet from Pat Brown.........


Dawn‏@dawnltdr

@ProfilerPatB great post Pat, with all that's in the papers lately, we may finally see justice for Madeleine. Keep up the fantastic work x




PAT BROWN‏@ProfilerPatB

@dawnltdr I wouldn't hold your breath. I don't think we are seeing progress; I think we are seeing spin.




Don't understand that. Why would the PJ need to spin anything?

____________________
What is certain is that since the start of the investigation there were  incongruent and even contradictory situations concerning the witness statements; the telephone records of calls that were made and received on mobile phones that belonged to the couple and to the group of friends that were on holidays with them; the movements of people right after the disappearance of the little girl was noticed, concerning the state in which the bedroom from where the child disappeared from was found (closed window? open window? partially open window?) etc., and the mystery would only become even thicker due to the clues that were left by the already mentioned sniffer dogs. - The Words of a JUDGE in relation to the McCanns

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Re: Pat's latest.....Find the body and prove we killed her..,

Post by russiandoll on 12.03.12 10:01

QUOTE FROM PAT BROWN :

The metal detector found nothing. Since it was possible Maddie could have
been buried in the oft-discussed missing sports bag, I was wanting to see if
the detector would find any metal, metal that might be on that bag. If Maddie's body were buried shallowly under
the ground in a sports bag, metal rings attaching a strap or metal zippers (although zippers
these days are almost all vinyl) could set off the metal detector. Unfortunately, it remained silent.



I have found a lot of what Pat Brown has written on this case
interesting, however I take offence at the above in bold. She would have done
better to show a little sensitivity and omitted the first word from the
last sentence in the above paragraph.
She was demonstrating a fact, no noise from a metal detector, nothing lost if she had omitted " unfortunately".

I understand she was hoping to discover what has happened to Madeleine McCann......but what is fortunate
about getting an indication that the body of a young child might be
where you are looking? Totally the wrong choice of word and doubtless her detractors will be having a field day reading this.
And I dislike her advertising her latest book with this factual serious piece of research. She should do that elsewhere imo and not be publicising her fictional writing in this way.

____________________



             The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie — deliberate,
contrived and dishonest — but the myth — persistent, persuasive and
unrealistic.
~John F. Kennedy


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Re: Pat's latest.....Find the body and prove we killed her..,

Post by Pershing36 on 12.03.12 10:13

What a desolate place that looks. I bet there could be loads of bodies out there and they would never be found.

I personally don't think a body would help much now. It would only go to prove the poor little girl is deceased. Forensics have been able to prove nothing so far.

In my mind the whole case seems to rest on whether you;

A) Believe the forensic dogs were wrong and JT did see what she said then had numerous flashbacks that got better or worse.

B) JT is wrong, lied, mistaken, bullied and the Forensic dogs that are used by many police forces successfully did indeed smell a corpse.

Either way I can't see how anything can change things now. If the rubbish they are spurting over on JATYK is true and the investigations are not looking that the possibility of the parents could be involved then it doesn't seem like a very open minded investigation.

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Re: Pat's latest.....Find the body and prove we killed her..,

Post by Nina on 12.03.12 10:26

@Pershing36 wrote:What a desolate place that looks. I bet there could be loads of bodies out there and they would never be found.

I personally don't think a body would help much now. It would only go to prove the poor little girl is deceased. Forensics have been able to prove nothing so far.

In my mind the whole case seems to rest on whether you;

A) Believe the forensic dogs were wrong and JT did see what she said then had numerous flashbacks that got better or worse.

B) JT is wrong, lied, mistaken, bullied and the Forensic dogs that are used by many police forces successfully did indeed smell a corpse.

Either way I can't see how anything can change things now. If the rubbish they are spurting over on JATYK is true and the investigations are not looking that the possibility of the parents could be involved then it doesn't seem like a very open minded investigation.

Hi Pershing36, very desolute. Where only life, apart from anything wild, would may be herds of goats or flocks of sheep. With the scent of decaying carcasses being something noted as is the norm in such places. Many ravines, gulleys, caused by rain and drought, that in turn causes lanslides.

How I know is I live in such an area.

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Re: Pat's latest.....Find the body and prove we killed her..,

Post by Pershing36 on 12.03.12 10:31

Sorry, probably not the best description. It has very rugged beauty if that is your kind of thing. What I meant to point up is all those pictures or dry soil heaps. Being so sparsely populated I really can't see how anybody would just come across something by mistake. In the UK it is usually dog walkers and ramblers who find shallow graves. I can't imagine it being so likely there.

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Re: Pat's latest.....Find the body and prove we killed her..,

Post by Me on 12.03.12 10:32

@Pershing36 wrote:Either way I can't see how anything can change things now. If the rubbish they are spurting over on JATYK is true and the investigations are not looking that the possibility of the parents could be involved then it doesn't seem like a very open minded investigation.

Well it may well be, officially at least, that at this precise moment in time they aren't looking at them as "suspects".

However after a "reconstitution" is performed will that still be the case?

Don't take that one journalist has said they aren't looking at them as suspects now as a definitive fact that that will always be the case. I'm sure officially at the moment that remains the line.

Let the review complete it's work, perform the reconstruction, weed out the T9 lies and let's see then what the lay of the land is.

____________________
What is certain is that since the start of the investigation there were  incongruent and even contradictory situations concerning the witness statements; the telephone records of calls that were made and received on mobile phones that belonged to the couple and to the group of friends that were on holidays with them; the movements of people right after the disappearance of the little girl was noticed, concerning the state in which the bedroom from where the child disappeared from was found (closed window? open window? partially open window?) etc., and the mystery would only become even thicker due to the clues that were left by the already mentioned sniffer dogs. - The Words of a JUDGE in relation to the McCanns

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Re: Pat's latest.....Find the body and prove we killed her..,

Post by Pershing36 on 12.03.12 10:39

@Me wrote:
@Pershing36 wrote:Either way I can't see how anything can change things now. If the rubbish they are spurting over on JATYK is true and the investigations are not looking that the possibility of the parents could be involved then it doesn't seem like a very open minded investigation.

Well it may well be, officially at least, that at this precise moment in time they aren't looking at them as "suspects".

However after a "reconstitution" is performed will that still be the case?

Don't take that one journalist has said they aren't looking at them as suspects now as a definitive fact that that will always be the case. I'm sure officially at the moment that remains the line.

Let the review complete it's work, perform the reconstruction, weed out the T9 lies and let's see then what the lay of the land is.


My fear is that if it started to move in that way it would be quickly wound up to save embarrassment to the UK Government and consulate services, needless to say what on earth the Police in the UK were doing at that point.

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Re: Pat's latest.....Find the body and prove we killed her..,

Post by Me on 12.03.12 10:40

@Pershing36 wrote:
@Me wrote:
@Pershing36 wrote:Either way I can't see how anything can change things now. If the rubbish they are spurting over on JATYK is true and the investigations are not looking that the possibility of the parents could be involved then it doesn't seem like a very open minded investigation.

Well it may well be, officially at least, that at this precise moment in time they aren't looking at them as "suspects".

However after a "reconstitution" is performed will that still be the case?

Don't take that one journalist has said they aren't looking at them as suspects now as a definitive fact that that will always be the case. I'm sure officially at the moment that remains the line.

Let the review complete it's work, perform the reconstruction, weed out the T9 lies and let's see then what the lay of the land is.


My fear is that if it started to move in that way it would be quickly wound up to save embarrassment to the UK Government and consulate services, needless to say what on earth the Police in the UK were doing at that point.

Sorry I think that's rubbish to be honest. It's too high profile and the Police in both countries couldn't whitewash it even if they wanted to.

____________________
What is certain is that since the start of the investigation there were  incongruent and even contradictory situations concerning the witness statements; the telephone records of calls that were made and received on mobile phones that belonged to the couple and to the group of friends that were on holidays with them; the movements of people right after the disappearance of the little girl was noticed, concerning the state in which the bedroom from where the child disappeared from was found (closed window? open window? partially open window?) etc., and the mystery would only become even thicker due to the clues that were left by the already mentioned sniffer dogs. - The Words of a JUDGE in relation to the McCanns

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Re: Pat's latest.....Find the body and prove we killed her..,

Post by russiandoll on 12.03.12 11:10

I would not read too much into the intro the the Figueras interview. If they police are as they should be, going back to basics, with a report of an abduction....then the McCanns at the starting point will not be suspects. The description was of the basis of the reinvestigation I think?

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contrived and dishonest — but the myth — persistent, persuasive and
unrealistic.
~John F. Kennedy


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Re: Pat's latest.....Find the body and prove we killed her..,

Post by aiyoyo on 12.03.12 11:26

So, Pat Brown kept to her words when she sad she went to PdL to search for Madeleine. She sure did plenty in one trip.
By comparison the mccanns were just in and out of their lawyers and PR offices to search for her.

While I commend Pat Brown's efforts I think finding a body is proving impossible. That is why I think the Police are not looking at a body as priority because history has proven you can have a successful prosecution even without a body.
Phone record is a good way to trip up perpetrators, or any communication method should be examined. Since it is not possible to examine their PC I would say working on their phone record together with other evidence is good way forward.

I read recently about the rootless hair sample which FSS failed to decide on it conclusively due to lack of root but Holland and one other EEC country have the technics and technology to test it for match. Does it mean the reviewers are working on that as well? I certainly hope so!

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Re: Pat's latest.....Find the body and prove we killed her..,

Post by T4two on 12.03.12 11:55

@russiandoll wrote:QUOTE FROM PAT BROWN :

The metal detector found nothing. Since it was possible Maddie could have
been buried in the oft-discussed missing sports bag, I was wanting to see if
the detector would find any metal, metal that might be on that bag. If Maddie's body were buried shallowly under
the ground in a sports bag, metal rings attaching a strap or metal zippers (although zippers
these days are almost all vinyl) could set off the metal detector. Unfortunately, it remained silent.



I have found a lot of what Pat Brown has written on this case
interesting, however I take offence at the above in bold. She would have done
better to show a little sensitivity and omitted the first word from the
last sentence in the above paragraph.
She was demonstrating a fact, no noise from a metal detector, nothing lost if she had omitted " unfortunately".

I understand she was hoping to discover what has happened to Madeleine McCann......but what is fortunate
about getting an indication that the body of a young child might be
where you are looking? Totally the wrong choice of word and doubtless her detractors will be having a field day reading this.
And I dislike her advertising her latest book with this factual serious piece of research. She should do that elsewhere imo and not be publicising her fictional writing in this way.

I agree. There are aspects of the Pat Brown show which are disconcerting, not only the advertizing.

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Re: Pat's latest.....Find the body and prove we killed her..,

Post by david_uk on 12.03.12 12:54

@russiandoll wrote:QUOTE FROM PAT BROWN :

The metal detector found nothing. Since it was possible Maddie could have
been buried in the oft-discussed missing sports bag, I was wanting to see if
the detector would find any metal, metal that might be on that bag. If Maddie's body were buried shallowly under
the ground in a sports bag, metal rings attaching a strap or metal zippers (although zippers
these days are almost all vinyl) could set off the metal detector. Unfortunately, it remained silent.



I have found a lot of what Pat Brown has written on this case
interesting, however I take offence at the above in bold. She would have done
better to show a little sensitivity and omitted the first word from the
last sentence in the above paragraph.
She was demonstrating a fact, no noise from a metal detector, nothing lost if she had omitted " unfortunately".

I understand she was hoping to discover what has happened to Madeleine McCann......but what is fortunate
about getting an indication that the body of a young child might be
where you are looking? Totally the wrong choice of word and doubtless her detractors will be having a field day reading this.
And I dislike her advertising her latest book with this factual serious piece of research. She should do that elsewhere imo and not be publicising her fictional writing in this way.


Couldnt agree more. Pat can be a little too `brash` if that the right word, and Definately not a good idea to advertise a new fictiional book in same blog....

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Re: Pat's latest.....Find the body and prove we killed her..,

Post by david_uk on 12.03.12 13:12

@Me wrote:
@Pershing36 wrote:
@Me wrote:
@Pershing36 wrote:Either way I can't see how anything can change things now. If the rubbish they are spurting over on JATYK is true and the investigations are not looking that the possibility of the parents could be involved then it doesn't seem like a very open minded investigation.

Well it may well be, officially at least, that at this precise moment in time they aren't looking at them as "suspects".

However after a "reconstitution" is performed will that still be the case?

Don't take that one journalist has said they aren't looking at them as suspects now as a definitive fact that that will always be the case. I'm sure officially at the moment that remains the line.

Let the review complete it's work, perform the reconstruction, weed out the T9 lies and let's see then what the lay of the land is.


My fear is that if it started to move in that way it would be quickly wound up to save embarrassment to the UK Government and consulate services, needless to say what on earth the Police in the UK were doing at that point.

Sorry I think that's rubbish to be honest. It's too high profile and the Police in both countries couldn't whitewash it even if they wanted to.



I wouldnt be so sure, its not like the Uk goverment hasnt completely whitewashed bigger events before!... just saying. I wont be hopeful until I see the Tapas with my own eyes being taken in for new questioning/reconstruction.

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Re: Pat's latest.....Find the body and prove we killed her..,

Post by Me on 12.03.12 13:32

@david_uk wrote:
@Me wrote:
@Pershing36 wrote:
@Me wrote:
@Pershing36 wrote:Either way I can't see how anything can change things now. If the rubbish they are spurting over on JATYK is true and the investigations are not looking that the possibility of the parents could be involved then it doesn't seem like a very open minded investigation.

Well it may well be, officially at least, that at this precise moment in time they aren't looking at them as "suspects".

However after a "reconstitution" is performed will that still be the case?

Don't take that one journalist has said they aren't looking at them as suspects now as a definitive fact that that will always be the case. I'm sure officially at the moment that remains the line.

Let the review complete it's work, perform the reconstruction, weed out the T9 lies and let's see then what the lay of the land is.


My fear is that if it started to move in that way it would be quickly wound up to save embarrassment to the UK Government and consulate services, needless to say what on earth the Police in the UK were doing at that point.

Sorry I think that's rubbish to be honest. It's too high profile and the Police in both countries couldn't whitewash it even if they wanted to.



I wouldnt be so sure, its not like the Uk goverment hasnt completely whitewashed bigger events before!... just saying. I wont be hopeful until I see the Tapas with my own eyes being taken in for new questioning/reconstruction.

Can you tell me how an open police investigation / review with 30 officers plus examining the evidence can be "white washed"? How would it be done logistically, how would they silence the coppers who have worked on it, how would they silence the media who now have their teeth into the story and for what reason and why would the UK government do this?

Personally speaking i find the whole raft of consipiracy theories regarding this case does not help the credibility of our cause.

____________________
What is certain is that since the start of the investigation there were  incongruent and even contradictory situations concerning the witness statements; the telephone records of calls that were made and received on mobile phones that belonged to the couple and to the group of friends that were on holidays with them; the movements of people right after the disappearance of the little girl was noticed, concerning the state in which the bedroom from where the child disappeared from was found (closed window? open window? partially open window?) etc., and the mystery would only become even thicker due to the clues that were left by the already mentioned sniffer dogs. - The Words of a JUDGE in relation to the McCanns

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Re: Pat's latest.....Find the body and prove we killed her..,

Post by Guest on 12.03.12 13:46

Things were happening way before the McCanns letter in the papers to David Cameron..........

Former Home Secretary Alan Johnson commissioned a scoping exercise by the Child Exploitation and Online Protection (Ceop) centre to look at the feasibility of carrying out a review of the case.

This was completed in March 2010, but Mr McCann said current Home Secretary Theresa May refused to let him and his wife see it because it was "sensitive



http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-13378289



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Re: Pat's latest.....Find the body and prove we killed her..,

Post by david_uk on 12.03.12 13:55

@Me wrote:
@david_uk wrote:
@Me wrote:
@Pershing36 wrote:
@Me wrote:
@Pershing36 wrote:Either way I can't see how anything can change things now. If the rubbish they are spurting over on JATYK is true and the investigations are not looking that the possibility of the parents could be involved then it doesn't seem like a very open minded investigation.

Well it may well be, officially at least, that at this precise moment in time they aren't looking at them as "suspects".

However after a "reconstitution" is performed will that still be the case?

Don't take that one journalist has said they aren't looking at them as suspects now as a definitive fact that that will always be the case. I'm sure officially at the moment that remains the line.

Let the review complete it's work, perform the reconstruction, weed out the T9 lies and let's see then what the lay of the land is.


My fear is that if it started to move in that way it would be quickly wound up to save embarrassment to the UK Government and consulate services, needless to say what on earth the Police in the UK were doing at that point.

Sorry I think that's rubbish to be honest. It's too high profile and the Police in both countries couldn't whitewash it even if they wanted to.



I wouldnt be so sure, its not like the Uk goverment hasnt completely whitewashed bigger events before!... just saying. I wont be hopeful until I see the Tapas with my own eyes being taken in for new questioning/reconstruction.

Can you tell me how an open police investigation / review with 30 officers plus examining the evidence can be "white washed"? How would it be done logistically, how would they silence the coppers who have worked on it, how would they silence the media who now have their teeth into the story and for what reason and why would the UK government do this?

Personally speaking i find the whole raft of consipiracy theories regarding this case does not help the credibility of our cause.



noone said anything about conspiracy theories Me, its just a fact that bigger investigations have been whitewashed before today.

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“Oh, what a tangled web we weave...when first we practice to deceive.”
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Re: Pat's latest.....Find the body and prove we killed her..,

Post by Me on 12.03.12 13:57

@david_uk wrote:
@Me wrote:
@david_uk wrote:
@Me wrote:
@Pershing36 wrote:
@Me wrote:
@Pershing36 wrote:Either way I can't see how anything can change things now. If the rubbish they are spurting over on JATYK is true and the investigations are not looking that the possibility of the parents could be involved then it doesn't seem like a very open minded investigation.

Well it may well be, officially at least, that at this precise moment in time they aren't looking at them as "suspects".

However after a "reconstitution" is performed will that still be the case?

Don't take that one journalist has said they aren't looking at them as suspects now as a definitive fact that that will always be the case. I'm sure officially at the moment that remains the line.

Let the review complete it's work, perform the reconstruction, weed out the T9 lies and let's see then what the lay of the land is.


My fear is that if it started to move in that way it would be quickly wound up to save embarrassment to the UK Government and consulate services, needless to say what on earth the Police in the UK were doing at that point.

Sorry I think that's rubbish to be honest. It's too high profile and the Police in both countries couldn't whitewash it even if they wanted to.



I wouldnt be so sure, its not like the Uk goverment hasnt completely whitewashed bigger events before!... just saying. I wont be hopeful until I see the Tapas with my own eyes being taken in for new questioning/reconstruction.

Can you tell me how an open police investigation / review with 30 officers plus examining the evidence can be "white washed"? How would it be done logistically, how would they silence the coppers who have worked on it, how would they silence the media who now have their teeth into the story and for what reason and why would the UK government do this?

Personally speaking i find the whole raft of consipiracy theories regarding this case does not help the credibility of our cause.



noone said anything about conspiracy theories Me, its just a fact that bigger investigations have been whitewashed before today.

By definition a white wash would require involvement by the UK government which in itself is a bona fide conspiracy theory.

I ask again how, in this case, it could be done?

____________________
What is certain is that since the start of the investigation there were  incongruent and even contradictory situations concerning the witness statements; the telephone records of calls that were made and received on mobile phones that belonged to the couple and to the group of friends that were on holidays with them; the movements of people right after the disappearance of the little girl was noticed, concerning the state in which the bedroom from where the child disappeared from was found (closed window? open window? partially open window?) etc., and the mystery would only become even thicker due to the clues that were left by the already mentioned sniffer dogs. - The Words of a JUDGE in relation to the McCanns

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Re: Pat's latest.....Find the body and prove we killed her..,

Post by kikoraton on 12.03.12 14:34

Pat Brown knows that we start from very different points, rather as the Irishman is reputed to have said "I wouldn't start from here". Fundamentally, she believes the "3 May" explanation. I don't.
I applaud her effort (apart from the self-publicisation), but the results seem rather meagre. I haven't a map to hand, but I imagine she is trying to make her first resting-place fit with the Myth of Smith (try saying that out loud). Then the scene moves to some place along a coastal strip from which Gerry's mobile gave away his presence - the Budens road. But what if Gerry was clever enough to leave his mobile at the apartment, whilst he buried Madeleine's body? And to keep his mobile on his person, switched on, whilst he went about some deliberately innocent or futile business? A run down the Budens road, to pass an hour or two?

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Re: Pat's latest.....Find the body and prove we killed her..,

Post by david_uk on 12.03.12 14:51

@Me wrote:
@david_uk wrote:
@Me wrote:
@david_uk wrote:
@Me wrote:
@Pershing36 wrote:
@Me wrote:
@Pershing36 wrote:Either way I can't see how anything can change things now. If the rubbish they are spurting over on JATYK is true and the investigations are not looking that the possibility of the parents could be involved then it doesn't seem like a very open minded investigation.

Well it may well be, officially at least, that at this precise moment in time they aren't looking at them as "suspects".

However after a "reconstitution" is performed will that still be the case?

Don't take that one journalist has said they aren't looking at them as suspects now as a definitive fact that that will always be the case. I'm sure officially at the moment that remains the line.

Let the review complete it's work, perform the reconstruction, weed out the T9 lies and let's see then what the lay of the land is.


My fear is that if it started to move in that way it would be quickly wound up to save embarrassment to the UK Government and consulate services, needless to say what on earth the Police in the UK were doing at that point.

Sorry I think that's rubbish to be honest. It's too high profile and the Police in both countries couldn't whitewash it even if they wanted to.



I wouldnt be so sure, its not like the Uk goverment hasnt completely whitewashed bigger events before!... just saying. I wont be hopeful until I see the Tapas with my own eyes being taken in for new questioning/reconstruction.

Can you tell me how an open police investigation / review with 30 officers plus examining the evidence can be "white washed"? How would it be done logistically, how would they silence the coppers who have worked on it, how would they silence the media who now have their teeth into the story and for what reason and why would the UK government do this?

Personally speaking i find the whole raft of consipiracy theories regarding this case does not help the credibility of our cause.



noone said anything about conspiracy theories Me, its just a fact that bigger investigations have been whitewashed before today.

By definition a white wash would require involvement by the UK government which in itself is a bona fide conspiracy theory.

I ask again how, in this case, it could be done?

yes it could be done, its been done before, there is a thread regarding a childrens home on the main forum section.

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Re: Pat's latest.....Find the body and prove we killed her..,

Post by Me on 12.03.12 15:05

Which one? Haute De La Garenne?

Because if you mean that one, the circumstances are completely different not least because it is not under the jursdiction of the UK Government / Scotland Yard.

____________________
What is certain is that since the start of the investigation there were  incongruent and even contradictory situations concerning the witness statements; the telephone records of calls that were made and received on mobile phones that belonged to the couple and to the group of friends that were on holidays with them; the movements of people right after the disappearance of the little girl was noticed, concerning the state in which the bedroom from where the child disappeared from was found (closed window? open window? partially open window?) etc., and the mystery would only become even thicker due to the clues that were left by the already mentioned sniffer dogs. - The Words of a JUDGE in relation to the McCanns

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Re: Pat's latest.....Find the body and prove we killed her..,

Post by Guest on 12.03.12 15:14

Precisely Me, which everyone here who talks of a whitewash conveniently forgets about.

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