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Warning as MPs debate right-to-die bill

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Dignity in Dying poll - should we have the right to die?

65% 65% 
[ 13 ]
35% 35% 
[ 7 ]
0% 0% 
[ 0 ]
 
Total Votes : 20

Warning as MPs debate right-to-die bill

Post by Get'emGonçalo on Fri Sep 11, 2015 9:22 am

The claim that most Britons support assisted dying is based on a flawed opinion poll, an academic report warned last night.
On the eve of the first Commons debate on the issue in 20 years, a study warned that the survey’s results must be treated with ‘caution’.
The poll, carried out for the Dignity in Dying pressure group, claimed that 82 per cent of people back a change in the law to allow assisted suicide. Several MPs are understood to be preparing to mention the figure when the Commons debates a new assisted dying law today.


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The Commons is set debate on assisted dying for the first time in 20 years.  Pictured: The House of Parliament

The Assisted Dying Bill, put forward by Labour MP Robert Marris, is closely based on a system proposed by former Lord Chancellor Lord Falconer in the spring. The Dignity in Dying poll was carried out in March. It found that 82 per cent of people backed Lord Falconer’s scheme.
But the results did not stand up to scrutiny when examined by two experts from the highly respected Institute for Social and Economic Research at Essex University. Their report questioned the way the online poll was carried out and suggested it missed whole sections of the population, particularly those who do not use the internet – which means many older people were shut out from taking part.


It said the poll failed to take into account the views either of the terminally ill or medical professionals. Medical professionals, the researchers said, are on past evidence less enthusiastic about assisted suicide than the rest of the public.
The survey also failed to give people the option to say they were ‘don’t knows’. Instead it pushed them into giving answers in favour of assisted dying by asking over-long and leading questions using loaded language – such as saying that assisted dying would help those in ‘unbearable suffering’.
Answers in favour of assisted dying were placed first among the options for people considering the questions, the researchers said.


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The Dignitas Clinic in Zurich where Britain's are currently forced to  travel if they wish to endf their life

The academics, Dr Tarek Al Baghal and Alexandru Cernat, said there were ‘a number of potential issues’ with the survey. They added: ‘While these problems may have negative impact on the data, it does not mean that the data is invalid. However, it does suggest that the data needs to be viewed with these possible issues in mind, perhaps using additional sources.’
Last night the group which commissioned the ISER report, No to Assisted Suicide, complained to the Market Research Society, the polling industry umbrella organisation, about the way Dignity in Dying has used its findings. Tory MP Fiona Bruce said: ‘This polling must be discounted, firstly because it was commissioned by lobbyists in favour of this Bill specifically to support their cause – and now experts in polling analysis have declared this 82 per cent figure as unreliable, as not coming from a representative population sample.’
Lib Dem peer and lawyer Lord Carlile said: ‘The survey that Dignity in Dying is relying on so heavily is not robust. Government guidelines for surveys of public opinion state quite clearly that simple responses to single questions are not the most effective way of gauging the true state of public opinion.’

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Re: Warning as MPs debate right-to-die bill

Post by BlueBag on Fri Sep 11, 2015 9:52 am

I think we should have the right to die naturally without extraordinary medical procedures.

But it's a slippery slope as old people will be pressured by family or feel they are a burden and pressure themselves.

I don't know how you safeguard against that other than a hard line "no".

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I sent this to the PM before the debate

Post by comperedna on Fri Sep 11, 2015 10:31 am

To David Cameron

Re: Assisted Dying Bill

Just to say I am one of those strongly against the current bill. 

- By the very nature of things most of those who are for it are fit, well, and non disabled, and probably not old or otherwise vulnerable either, and are imagining how they might feel at the end of their lives. I am both old and seriously disabled and DO feel that I may at some point encounter the: 'You have had a good innings, isn't it time to go', viewpoint when I still love life and don't want out of it.
- Unscrupuous relatives may make an old person feel a financial or emotional burden.
- Unscrupulous medics may make an old or disabled person feel a burden on the NHS/ the state/ public finance.
- No-one can be sure how long a person may live so the six months estimate is not helpful.
- Palliative care, which can be superbly provided at the end of life, was damaged by the Shipman case, but if the patient has, as far as possible 'choice and control' it can be truly excellent. With this bill there will be diminished interest in bolstering and improving palliative care for all who need it. (I looked after my mother throughout her terminal cancer and she had a lot of control and minimal pain and discomfort because of high quality palliative care, including the continous provision by IV line of the correct level of appropriate medication, the assistance of the local Community Nursing Team and, at the very end, MARIE CURIE nurses.)
- The slippery slope argument is NOT a trivial one. Euthanasing of disabled babies, or dementia patients may follow.

I have no idea if this will reach you DC, but at least I am going to try.

Signed etc

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Re: Warning as MPs debate right-to-die bill

Post by kaz on Fri Sep 11, 2015 10:51 am

Anyone over pension age having served their purpose of filling the government
's coffers via taxes will soon be on the 'get rid' list. We already 'bed block' the hospitals , are a drain on resources and generally wander round in a alzheimeric  state cluttering up places and taking up valuable space. Compulsory euthanasia is coming our way.

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Re: Warning as MPs debate right-to-die bill

Post by pennylane on Fri Sep 11, 2015 11:07 am

In a country where the British Establishment regularly gets away with murder.....  I vote a resounding NO!

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Re: Warning as MPs debate right-to-die bill

Post by aquila on Fri Sep 11, 2015 1:10 pm

@pennylane wrote:In a country where the British Establishment regularly gets away with murder.....  I vote a resounding NO!
I second that.

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RIGHT TO DIE HAS BEEN REJECTED

Post by sallypelt on Fri Sep 11, 2015 1:55 pm


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Re: Warning as MPs debate right-to-die bill

Post by aquila on Fri Sep 11, 2015 2:06 pm

I'm very glad to hear this. I don't think it's the last airing it will be given and I'm sure it's because it's unpopular at the moment given major crises. I think it's the first airing and it'll be put on the front burner as and when it is convenient/acceptable for the powers that be to re-introduce it at a more 'favourable' time.

For now, I'm very glad to hear this decision.

ETA: I have no doubt that there will be insurance companies soon offering policies to nip across to Switzerland/anywhere that has euthanasia clinics where it is legal. I also have no doubt there are Human Rights lawyers lining up to back 'the right to die'.

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Re: Warning as MPs debate right-to-die bill

Post by sallypelt on Fri Sep 11, 2015 2:21 pm

@aquila wrote:I'm very glad to hear this. I don't think it's the last airing it will be given and I'm sure it's because it's unpopular at the moment given major crises. I think it's the first airing and it'll be put on the front burner as and when it is convenient/acceptable for the powers that be to re-introduce it at a more 'favourable' time.

For now, I'm very glad to hear this decision.
I feel the same, Aquila. I had been a supporter of the "right to die" for many years, after watching my dad suffer from cancer. That was 15 years ago, and a lot of his suffering was due to the fact that they didn't diagnose his cancer until four days before he died. My dad died from prostrate cancer that had gone to his bones. So, he was in a lot of pain. This was 15 years ago, and this week my husband's brother died after a 2 year battle with lung cancer. I have to say, that I can't fault the care that he received. The pain control was second to none, and he passed away peacefully a few days ago. 

I am now of the opinion that pain control is the answer, not ending people's lives with a lethal dose of medicine. What people are afraid of is the suffering at the end of their lives. Many people can have a dignified end with minimal suffering IF the palliative care is the same for everyone, right across the UK.

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Re: Warning as MPs debate right-to-die bill

Post by aquila on Fri Sep 11, 2015 2:44 pm

@sallypelt wrote:
@aquila wrote:I'm very glad to hear this. I don't think it's the last airing it will be given and I'm sure it's because it's unpopular at the moment given major crises. I think it's the first airing and it'll be put on the front burner as and when it is convenient/acceptable for the powers that be to re-introduce it at a more 'favourable' time.

For now, I'm very glad to hear this decision.
I feel the same, Aquila. I had been a supporter of the "right to die" for many years, after watching my dad suffer from cancer. That was 15 years ago, and a lot of his suffering was due to the fact that they didn't diagnose his cancer until four days before he died. My dad died from prostrate cancer that had gone to his bones. So, he was in a lot of pain. This was 15 years ago, and this week my husband's brother died after a 2 year battle with lung cancer. I have to say, that I can't fault the care that he received. The pain control was second to none, and he passed away peacefully a few days ago. 

I am now of the opinion that pain control is the answer, not ending people's lives with a lethal dose of medicine. What people are afraid of is the suffering at the end of their lives. Many people can have a dignified end with minimal suffering IF the palliative care is the same for everyone, right across the UK.
I'm really sorry for your loss. friends

There is no chance of decent palliative care/proper drugs in the future when our country's borders are open. The NHS is already abused by ethnic minorities using A&E as a GP surgery. I really don't give a toss if I offend anyone for saying this. I've seen it for myself. The cost of multi-lingual signage alone in a hospital is astronomical. Drug companies are now complaining because we no longer buy their over-priced products - that's a first! There is no way the economy of the UK can sustain the increasing population of its existing ethnic minorities who refuse to integrate let alone the onslaught of millions more. How on earth is anyone going to receive a pension? An ageing population will have to be dealt with at some point.

Euthanasia is only the beginning of a solution to the madness that is happening now and is to come.

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Re: Warning as MPs debate right-to-die bill

Post by pennylane on Fri Sep 11, 2015 2:58 pm

So sorry to read about your father, sallypelt roses

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Re: Warning as MPs debate right-to-die bill

Post by sallypelt on Fri Sep 11, 2015 4:03 pm

Thank you, Aquila, pennylane. My dad died 15 years ago. It's my husband's brother ( my brother-in-law) who died this week. We knew it was terminal, but it did come as a bit of a bolt from the blue when we had the message to say he had died, because he was up and about in the hospice, a few hours before he died. All credit to the staff at the hospice. They were absolutely fantastic, and although he was unwell, no one would have guessed that he was near the end of his life, although we, as the family, knew.

But, once again, thank you for your kind words roses

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Re: Warning as MPs debate right-to-die bill

Post by pennylane on Fri Sep 11, 2015 4:57 pm

@sallypelt wrote:Thank you, Aquila, pennylane. My dad died 15 years ago. It's my husband's brother ( my brother-in-law) who died this week. We knew it was terminal, but it did come as a bit of a bolt from the blue when we had the message to say he had died, because he was up and about in the hospice, a few hours before he died. All credit to the staff at the hospice. They were absolutely fantastic, and although he was unwell, no one would have guessed that he was near the end of his life, although we, as the family, knew.

But, once again, thank you for your kind words roses
I'm glad the hospice staff were supportive and kind to your brother-in-law, sallypelt, and that he received excellent palliative care and did not suffer. I agree with you that pain control expertise is paramount and is the way forward.

Sorry for your recent loss xxxx

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