The Complete Mystery of Madeleine McCann™
Hello!

A very warm welcome to The Complete Mystery of Madeleine McCann™️ forum.

Please log in, or register to view all the forums, then settle in and help us get to the truth about what really happened to Madeleine Beth McCann. Please note that your username should be different from your email address!

When posting please be mindful that this forum is primarily about the death of a three year old girl.

(Please note: if you register with the sole intention of disrupting or spamming, please don't expect to be a member for too long.)

Many thanks,

Jill Havern
Forum owner

What do you think of this? Article about a scenario often overlooked by most people

Page 1 of 2 1, 2  Next

View previous topic View next topic Go down

What do you think of this? Article about a scenario often overlooked by most people

Post by JohnMartin2 on 04.07.14 17:53

I read an article on Enraged Citizen about a scenario overlooked by most cases. I thought it was an interesting read and would like to see what other peoples opinions are about it. 

This is the article

http://enragedcitizen.com/the-truth-about-madeleine-mccann/

There are two parts to it but the first part was most interesting for me.

JohnMartin2

Posts : 1
Reputation : 0
Join date : 2014-07-04

Back to top Go down

Re: What do you think of this? Article about a scenario often overlooked by most people

Post by margaret on 04.07.14 18:33

Sorry there's no scenario there, just an article listing the facts that we know. It is clear and concise though.

Is it your article?
avatar
margaret

Posts : 585
Reputation : 0
Join date : 2010-09-24

Back to top Go down

Re: What do you think of this? Article about a scenario often overlooked by most people

Post by Guest on 04.07.14 18:35

Thank you Margaret, I was having trouble spotting what the scenario is!

 welcome2 JohnMartin2.
avatar
Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: What do you think of this? Article about a scenario often overlooked by most people

Post by Ochosi on 04.07.14 18:48

I think the scenario is Maddie was drugged with Calpol, heard her dad talking to Jez, climbed on the sofa to look for him, fell and hit her head, resulting in death.

TBH, I speed read it, skimming most - and went to the end for the scenario.
It's not an unheard of scenario, I've seen discussions of it somewere, maybe here - not sure as I've read so many things. 
If that is the scenario, I see it as a different speculative explanation as to how Maddie may have died, but it concurs with many people's thoughts that she died in apartment 5A.

Welcome, JohnMartin2.

Ochosi

Posts : 82
Reputation : 0
Join date : 2013-10-20

Back to top Go down

Re: What do you think of this? Article about a scenario often overlooked by most people

Post by PeterMac on 04.07.14 23:25

After ploughing through repetitions of what we already knew I came across the last paragraphs

{quote]The only hypothesis which corroborates all the known reliable evidence is this.
Madeleine woke up in the night, heard her father talking below the living room window with Jeremiah.   Jeremiah ?  
Climbed up on the sofa in order to get a look at what was happening then fell and hit her head.   And then lay there for 90 minutes for cadaverine to develop before MO's visit ten minutes later, or her mother's visit 30 minutes later,
The fall, and the use of Calpol to make the children sleep, led to her death.   CALPOL DOES NOT MAKE CHILDREN SLEEP
The habit of using Calpol on the children would later be confirmed by Kate’s father.   AND . . .  ?
Later, a man identified by the Smith family as Gerry McCann was carrying a child whilst running towards the beach.     Some new evidence, apparently, of which the entire world has been ignorant until this "revelation'  Do we have any reference for the "running"  ? ? ? ?
In truth we will never truly know what occurred that night, only those involved will.   The cry of all defence lawyers through time.  BUT, you forget the power of deductive reasoning, of Forensic analysis, of logic, of deconstruction of falsity . .   Oh forget it, you probably would not understand
[/quote]

____________________

avatar
PeterMac
Researcher

Posts : 10170
Reputation : 171
Join date : 2010-12-06

Back to top Go down

Re: What do you think of this? Article about a scenario often overlooked by most people

Post by ultimaThule on 05.07.14 4:11

'Risible' is a word which comes to mind but, in truth, I don't find it at all funny that some seek to trivialise the death of a young child and the concealment of her body..   Can they not prounouce the 'h' in 'heinous' or do they prefer to be associated with nether ends?
avatar
ultimaThule

Posts : 3355
Reputation : 3
Join date : 2013-09-18

Back to top Go down

Heinous...?

Post by missbeetle on 05.07.14 4:16

I've always known it pronounced to rhyme with 'Venus'...!
avatar
missbeetle

Posts : 985
Reputation : 20
Join date : 2014-02-28
Location : New Zealand

Back to top Go down

Re: What do you think of this? Article about a scenario often overlooked by most people

Post by PeterMac on 05.07.14 7:49

missbeetle wrote:I've always known it pronounced to rhyme with 'Venus'...!


heinous |ˈhānəs|

____________________

avatar
PeterMac
Researcher

Posts : 10170
Reputation : 171
Join date : 2010-12-06

Back to top Go down

Re: What do you think of this? Article about a scenario often overlooked by most people

Post by missbeetle on 05.07.14 9:54

PeterMac wrote:
missbeetle wrote:I've always known it pronounced to rhyme with 'Venus'...!


heinous |ˈhānəs|

Oxford Dictionary online has both pronunciations.

I suspect mine is the non-British version.

A verbal variant is used fairly commonly round here to express revulsion at something.

eg. "She was heened by Rolf Harris's behaviour".

Alternately, if something 'heens' you, it repulses you.
avatar
missbeetle

Posts : 985
Reputation : 20
Join date : 2014-02-28
Location : New Zealand

Back to top Go down

Re: What do you think of this? Article about a scenario often overlooked by most people

Post by Guest on 05.07.14 10:15

I've never heard that variation, Miss B.

I've always rhymed "heinous" with "anus" and hadn't given a thought until now of the misunderstandings that could occur if the "h" was dropped!
avatar
Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: What do you think of this? Article about a scenario often overlooked by most people

Post by Research_Reader on 05.07.14 20:10

Ochosi wrote:I think the scenario is Maddie was drugged with Calpol

I thought Calpol was just a sweet syrup with a bit of paracetamol in? Its the kind of thing that you give to young children to lessen the pain of teething or to perk them up a bit if they have a sore throat, isn't it?

____________________
avatar
Research_Reader

Posts : 261
Reputation : 60
Join date : 2013-10-19

Back to top Go down

Re: What do you think of this? Article about a scenario often overlooked by most people

Post by Miraflores on 05.07.14 20:17

The formula of Calpol has changed I believe, over the years. It used to have sedative properties, but whatever caused that was taken out, although I don't know which year. However, if Dr Gerry had Triludan in his possession which hadn't been readily available for a number of years, then there is no reason why he couldn't still have the old formula Calpol to hand also.
avatar
Miraflores

Posts : 845
Reputation : 4
Join date : 2011-06-20

Back to top Go down

Re: What do you think of this? Article about a scenario often overlooked by most people

Post by ultimaThule on 05.07.14 20:21

The author of the article may be a 'henranged' citizen who buys 'naice' ham.  smilie 


'
avatar
ultimaThule

Posts : 3355
Reputation : 3
Join date : 2013-09-18

Back to top Go down

Re: What do you think of this? Article about a scenario often overlooked by most people

Post by Ochosi on 05.07.14 20:36

Research_Reader - I have no idea what effects Calpol has - whoever wrote the scenario seems to believe it has sedative properties.  
I've read things saying it doesn't make children sleep and also that it does. I think it depends on what sort of Calpol is being referred to.

Ochosi

Posts : 82
Reputation : 0
Join date : 2013-10-20

Back to top Go down

Re: What do you think of this? Article about a scenario often overlooked by most people

Post by Research_Reader on 05.07.14 20:52

I think it might just be a misconception that calpol is a sedative. I just spent a couple of mins googling it and found this quote:

"Terence Stephenson, professor of child health at Nottingham University, believes their use by parents may be misguided.
"Paracetamol doesn't have any sedative properties whatsoever and neither does Nurofen," he says. "It's a widespread misconception that Calpol helps children to sleep. Doctors used to prescribe antihistamines to help children sleep, but not any longer."
From here: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/children_shealth/3314633/Are-we-using-too-much-Calpol.html


I think the misconception comes from the fact that Calpol helps a child sleep only if they have some pain (e.g. teething pain) thats stopping them from sleeping. 


However, there was some discussion before about the likelihood that Kate or one of the T7 may have had access to proper sedatives and the knowledge of how to administer them. There was the fact that Kate said the twins had appeared to have been sedated, yet none of the doctors present tried to rouse them or check they were okay. This points to the probability that it was them who had sedated them. 

____________________
avatar
Research_Reader

Posts : 261
Reputation : 60
Join date : 2013-10-19

Back to top Go down

Re: What do you think of this? Article about a scenario often overlooked by most people

Post by Ochosi on 05.07.14 21:25

Research_Reader - I've also read the below from netdoctor.
I don't know if this is the Calpol the McCanns had, whether it was available etc. It is apparently discontinued in the UK, but I don't know when from.
From experience, a lot of anti-histamine drugs which say "may cause drowsiness" usually result in quite a kip, for me. 

http://www.netdoctor.co.uk/aches-and-pains/medicines/calpol-night.html


"Calpol night oral solution contains two active ingredients, paracetamol and diphenhydramine hydrochloride.
Paracetamol is a simple painkilling medicine used to relieve mild to moderate pain and fever. Despite its widespread use for over 100 years, we still don't fully understand how paracetamol works to relieve pain and reduce fever. However, it is now thought that it works by reducing the production of prostaglandins in the brain and spinal cord.
The body produces prostaglandins in response to injury and certain diseases. One of the effects of prostaglandins is to sensitise nerve endings, causing pain (presumably to prevent us from causing further harm to the area). As paracetamol reduces the production of these nerve sensitising prostaglandins it is thought it may increase our pain threshold, so that although the cause of the pain remains, we can feel it less.
It is thought paracetamol reduces fever by affecting an area of the brain that regulates our body temperature (the hypothalamic heat-regulating center).
Diphenhydramine is a type of medicine called a sedating antihistamine. It enters the brain in sufficient quantities to cause drowsiness.
....."


Ochosi

Posts : 82
Reputation : 0
Join date : 2013-10-20

Back to top Go down

Re: What do you think of this? Article about a scenario often overlooked by most people

Post by Research_Reader on 05.07.14 21:39

Yes I saw that too, but I think the professor is saying its a misconception. And there is no author's name on the netdoctor article. How do we know the author is qualified to make that statement?

____________________
avatar
Research_Reader

Posts : 261
Reputation : 60
Join date : 2013-10-19

Back to top Go down

Re: What do you think of this? Article about a scenario often overlooked by most people

Post by Guest on 05.07.14 21:48

As a parent of a toddler imo calpol does not have sedative effects. Nurofen too. They are the equivalent of an adult taking paracetamol or Ibruprofen.There is a product on the market to this day(nytol I think its called), that contains an anti-histamine, I gave it to my child once as recommended by a doctor and would never use it again. My child is an extremely light sleeper but did not wake once that night.

Were anti-histamine tablets found in the apartment or villa? I may have read that before?
avatar
Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: What do you think of this? Article about a scenario often overlooked by most people

Post by Research_Reader on 05.07.14 22:08

I think wondering about Calpol or other over-the-counter child medicines is not that important. They were doctors who potentially had access to proper sedatives, and the knowledge of how to administer them (dosages etc), and almost certainly would have gotten rid of them before the police turned up.

____________________
avatar
Research_Reader

Posts : 261
Reputation : 60
Join date : 2013-10-19

Back to top Go down

Re: What do you think of this? Article about a scenario often overlooked by most people

Post by Guest on 05.07.14 22:12

I agree research reader. Just wanted to say the effects an otc drug had on my own child. depending on the dosage given there would be no need for anything stronger.
avatar
Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: What do you think of this? Article about a scenario often overlooked by most people

Post by kimHager on 06.07.14 4:49

if calpol is like children's Tylenol then the main ingredient is acetaminophen. I found children's advil (ibuprofen) works on pain better but does not have sleeping agents. I don't understand, is the pain meds banned in PDL and Portugal? I would think something stronger might have been used IMO.

____________________
Kim
avatar
kimHager

Posts : 465
Reputation : 1
Join date : 2014-01-29

Back to top Go down

Promethazine Hydrochloride?

Post by Guest on 06.07.14 8:56

I don't know if Promethazine as a sedative has been discussed already on the forum, but I thought it might be of interest, as the issue of sedation has been mentioned on this thread and elsewhere.

Promethazine Hydrochloride is an antihistamine which in the UK can be bought over the counter without prescription.

http://www.nhs.uk/Conditions/Insomnia/Pages/MedicineOverview.aspx?condition=Sedation&medicine=Promethazine%20Hydrochloride

The first time I came across it was in my early days of nursing training, when during a particularly long run of night shifts I had difficulty sleeping due to it being extremely hot and having noisy building work going on across the road from my house. My anxiety about this came up in conversation with the Charge Nurse who took me along to the drugs trolley and gave me a blister pack of Promethazine, said take one of these but only when you are absolutely ready to hop into bed, and set a loud alarm clock! I said I wasn't keen on taking sleeping tablets, and she explained that Promethazine is only an anti-histamine and was commonly used to help sedate people as an aid to sleep.

Well, I slept like a baby that day! So over years I occasionally bought myself Promethazine from Boots incase I ran into difficulties sleeping when I was on nights, and I recommended it to untold numbers of nurses after me.

I'm merely relating this here to point out the properties of a very easy to come by medication, used commonly in the NHS as an aid to sleep (in a Psych Adolescent Unit in the scenario mentioned above, so accepted as a safe sedative for use in young people also) and by health professionals themselves. I will always remember how my Charge Nurse introduced me to it willy nilly, with the same ease she might recommend I have a strong cup of coffee to wake myself up!

(Edited to add -possibly this would be more useful elsewhere? I just chipped in on here due to mention of Calpol etc)
avatar
Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: What do you think of this? Article about a scenario often overlooked by most people

Post by MissesWillYa on 06.07.14 17:15

Here in the US, Benedryl is an OTC antihistamine and it's powerful. I personally take half the adult dose when I have allergy issues and it will make me sleep soundly for many hours. Then I'll be very groggy when I do wake up. Here, you can buy a bottle of generic Benedryl with (I think) 200 tablets in it from Costco for about $3, so it's very cheap and plentiful and easily gotten. But mostly considered safe; in my pregnancies, which were within the past decade, it was recommended as a good way to combat insomnia. It may affect different people in different ways. I am sure, though, that if I took it and didn't go straight to bed, I'd be very much impaired. I don't think I could even walk straight, that's how much it knocks me out.
avatar
MissesWillYa

Posts : 180
Reputation : 12
Join date : 2013-04-25
Location : On a mountaintop

Back to top Go down

Re: What do you think of this? Article about a scenario often overlooked by most people

Post by comperedna on 06.07.14 18:00

In the UK Calpol is very low dose liquid paracetamol recommended by GPs for babies and children with fever and postulated headaches with it. There is also a similar alternative product: Calprufen liquid which is also recommended by GPs (primary care physicians). It has very low babies' and children's doses of Ibuprofen (aka proprietary name Nurofen). Both are also commonly used for teething babies with particularly painful gums etc. It is no way 'odd' or sinister. It is NOT, repeat NOT, a sedative. It does NOT send babies and children to sleep, it just, if it works as it should, allows them the chance of getting off to sleep because it deals with pain and soreness. 

If I get into what does 'a sedative' mean I will just bore people. However, I thought it was worth putting the above online because not everyone on here is in the UK, or knows what this simple children's medication is, and what it is called here, and what primary care physicians, or over the counter pharmacies usually give it out to parents for.

comperedna

Posts : 699
Reputation : 53
Join date : 2012-10-29

Back to top Go down

Re: What do you think of this? Article about a scenario often overlooked by most people

Post by comperedna on 06.07.14 18:01

I forgot. It is not an anti-histamine either.

comperedna

Posts : 699
Reputation : 53
Join date : 2012-10-29

Back to top Go down

Page 1 of 2 1, 2  Next

View previous topic View next topic Back to top


 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum