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Where were the twins?

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Where were the twins?

Post by NickE on 19.06.14 20:49

I have read the witness statement from Charlotte Pennington and what GNR officers stated and there is especially one thing that is weird here. 
Where were the twins? 
Did they sleept in another apartment earlier in the evening?

Charlotte Elizabeth Anne Pennington
Date/Time: 2007/05/07 14H30
Childcare Worker

Just before 10pm the last mother arrived to collect her child from the creche and mentioned that she had just bumped into a man, who had been shouting a name.
"She didn't get the name, but she said it sounded something like 'Abbey, Gabby or Maddie'. We automatically went into lost-child procedure. In these situations, the first thing we do is investigate the scene.
"We knew that one of the other nanny's charges was called Maddie. We told the head of department what had happened and she took us straight to the apartment.
"There were no children in the room. The twins had been taken out already, I think by one of the McCanns' friends.
"When we were coming out we saw Kate and she was screaming: 'They've taken her. They've taken her!'


The twins were gone BEFORE Kate raised the alarm??!?


 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Nelson Filipe Pacheco da Costa
Date/Time: 2007/05/07 18H45
G.N.R. Military Personnel

When questioned about the bedroom windows, he only remembers that blinds of the window of the girl’s bedroom were not totally closed. He does not remember about the existence of curtains or whether the window itself was closed.

He says that in the apartment there were two beds and two cots placed in Madeleine’s room, he does not remember their position. The children never woke up, he is sure, not knowing what position they were in, however he found this situation to be very strange, as a lot of noise was made.


So, the twins were back until GNR arrived?
Doesn't make sense!
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Re: Where were the twins?

Post by canada12 on 19.06.14 20:59

I've always wondered about this too. A case could be made that CP's timing is off and it was already well past the "alarm moment" and Kate was merely re-stating her "abduction cry". But I'm more inclined to believe those witnesses who reported the "alarm" being raised closer to 9.30-9.45, and also those who believe the twins were being cared for elsewhere in another apartment. This fits the theory that the twins were moved back into the apartment at the last moment, and were never sleeping in there at all that evening.

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Re: Where were the twins?

Post by Justformaddie on 19.06.14 21:02

That's something that has always niggled me too, I think I also read somewhere that it was later when they were removed, I'll check. Another thing that bothers me in that statement was that she went into missing child mode and the first thing they have to do is investigate the scene, I don't think that's right at all! IMO

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Re: Where were the twins?

Post by Guest on 20.06.14 18:06

Pennington is a very shady character in this charade. IMO, of course.
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Re: Where were the twins?

Post by HelenMeg on 20.06.14 22:26

Châtelaine wrote:Pennington is a very shady character in this charade. IMO, of course.
The case abounds with shady characters, that's the problem  titter

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Re: Where were the twins?

Post by worriedmum on 20.06.14 22:46

IIRC wasn't there also a discrepancy over whether there were any sheets on the cots?
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Re: Where were the twins?

Post by sharonl on 20.06.14 22:56

Châtelaine wrote:Pennington is a very shady character in this charade. IMO, of course.
 
Charlotte Pennington who arrived at the ocean club the same time as Jane Tanner, who was able to back up many of the McCanns stories because she happened to always be in the right place at the right time, and who has done very little with her child care career since leaving the PDL because in reality she is an actress, now working for a company called the Killing game who specialise in murder mystery breaks.
 
Now why would you consider her to be shady?  thinking

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Re: Where were the twins?

Post by Guest on 20.06.14 23:14

Search me ...  big grin 
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Re: Where were the twins?

Post by Justformaddie on 21.06.14 7:57

Poor twins, but, unfortunately I think they'll be brain washed by the family by now and even if they have doubts, they'll stick to their mother and fathers story IMO

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Re: Where were the twins?

Post by inspirespirit on 15.07.14 12:04

I was just reading on a blog, that cadavour smell was picked up on one of the twin's t-shirts, and a weird thought came to me.  Has anyone ever thought that maybe one of the twins did something to Madeleine?  Now that would be something that, as a parent, you would try to cover up.  Without a doubt, there is some massive cover up and it looks almost certain that Maddie died in that apartment.  That's just me, mulling..... thinking
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Re: Where were the twins?

Post by Google.Gaspar.Statements on 15.07.14 12:14

@inspirespirit wrote:I was just reading on a blog, that cadavour smell was picked up on one of the twin's t-shirts, and a weird thought came to me.  Has anyone ever thought that maybe one of the twins did something to Madeleine?  Now that would be something that, as a parent, you would try to cover up.  Without a doubt, there is some massive cover up and it looks almost certain that Maddie died in that apartment.  That's just me, mulling..... thinking

What, like pushed Madeleine off the back of the sofa? Why would a parent cover that up?
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Re: Where were the twins?

Post by Guest on 15.07.14 12:14

It's a possibility that a child could push another one over and cause a fatal injury - as when people hit their heads on a pavement - but it's very hard to see why a accident that nobody could have prevented would then be covered up.
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Re: Where were the twins?

Post by Justformaddie on 15.07.14 12:16

@inspirespirit wrote:I was just reading on a blog, that cadavour smell was picked up on one of the twin's t-shirts, and a weird thought came to me.  Has anyone ever thought that maybe one of the twins did something to Madeleine?  Now that would be something that, as a parent, you would try to cover up.  Without a doubt, there is some massive cover up and it looks almost certain that Maddie died in that apartment.  That's just me, mulling..... thinking
Interesting, I wonder could they remember any thing, although  I don't think we're allowed to speak of the twins  in this way, not sure though.

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Re: Where were the twins?

Post by inspirespirit on 15.07.14 12:22

I was thinking more darker than pushing her off a sofa, which obviously would have been an accident.  I don't really know, as I'm just kind of mulling, but I was thinking more like hit her over the head with something, or stabbed her playing a game.  Something that the police would have asked questions about rather than an obvious accident.
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Re: Where were the twins?

Post by inspirespirit on 15.07.14 12:23

@Justformaddie wrote:
@inspirespirit wrote:I was just reading on a blog, that cadavour smell was picked up on one of the twin's t-shirts, and a weird thought came to me.  Has anyone ever thought that maybe one of the twins did something to Madeleine?  Now that would be something that, as a parent, you would try to cover up.  Without a doubt, there is some massive cover up and it looks almost certain that Maddie died in that apartment.  That's just me, mulling..... thinking
Interesting, I wonder could they remember any thing, although  I don't think we're allowed to speak of the twins  in this way, not sure though.

oops.  sorry.  Didn't realise we weren't meant to talk about them.  I thought we just weren't meant to say their names.   ooops
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Re: Where were the twins?

Post by Guest on 15.07.14 12:24

I'm sure those model parents K & G would never have allowed their children access to anything which could be so dangerous!
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Re: Where were the twins?

Post by Justformaddie on 15.07.14 12:25

@inspirespirit wrote:
@Justformaddie wrote:
@inspirespirit wrote:I was just reading on a blog, that cadavour smell was picked up on one of the twin's t-shirts, and a weird thought came to me.  Has anyone ever thought that maybe one of the twins did something to Madeleine?  Now that would be something that, as a parent, you would try to cover up.  Without a doubt, there is some massive cover up and it looks almost certain that Maddie died in that apartment.  That's just me, mulling..... thinking
Interesting, I wonder could they remember any thing, although  I don't think we're allowed to speak of the twins  in this way, not sure though.

oops.  sorry.  Didn't realise we weren't meant to talk about them.  I thought we just weren't meant to say their names.   ooops
Don't quote me though, I'm not sure if we are or not  smilie

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Re: Where were the twins?

Post by Guest on 15.07.14 12:34

@Justformaddie wrote:
@inspirespirit wrote:
@Justformaddie wrote:
@inspirespirit wrote:I was just reading on a blog, that cadavour smell was picked up on one of the twin's t-shirts, and a weird thought came to me.  Has anyone ever thought that maybe one of the twins did something to Madeleine?  Now that would be something that, as a parent, you would try to cover up.  Without a doubt, there is some massive cover up and it looks almost certain that Maddie died in that apartment.  That's just me, mulling..... thinking
Interesting, I wonder could they remember any thing, although  I don't think we're allowed to speak of the twins  in this way, not sure though.

oops.  sorry.  Didn't realise we weren't meant to talk about them.  I thought we just weren't meant to say their names.   ooops
Don't quote me though, I'm not sure if we are or not  smilie


Thank you JfM yes you are quite right.  We should really not discuss the twins.
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Re: Where were the twins?

Post by inspirespirit on 15.07.14 12:37

I don't know how to remove it.  Could an admin do it please.   soz
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Re: Where were the twins?

Post by Guest on 15.07.14 12:49

@inspirespirit wrote:I don't know how to remove it.  Could an admin do it please.   soz


Don't worry it's ok, it is something we have all probably thought of at one time.  Children do sometimes have accidents playing etc.     But shall we leave it at that.
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Re: Where were the twins?

Post by PeterMac on 15.07.14 13:35

No Fate Worse Than De'Ath wrote:I'm sure those model parents K & G would never have allowed their children access to anything which could be so dangerous!

Let us work on that.
The children had, during the long absence of their parents, access to the entire apartment
They had the ability to capsize the cots and to tip themselves out onto the tiled floor to gain further access to the apartment
An apartment which had work surfaces, kitchen implements, including one supposes the normal range of knives, glasses, glass jugs, ceramics and porcelain / crockery
An apartment which had its normal quote of mirrors and hard surfaces in the bathroom
An apartment which had its normal quote of sharp and hard corners on furniture
and so on
BUT WHICH ALSO HAD
Terfenadine - a drug now no longer available in most of the world - and available in the UK only on named prescription from certain named importers. This was lying around in the bedroom
not to mention Calpol, Nurofen, and Losec
New Zealand wine,
and any other "certain substances' which may or may not have been present, but which are testified to by more than one other significant witness.

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Re: Where were the twins?

Post by Justformaddie on 15.07.14 13:41

@PeterMac wrote:
No Fate Worse Than De'Ath wrote:I'm sure those model parents K & G would never have allowed their children access to anything which could be so dangerous!

Let us work on that.
The children had, during the long absence of their parents, access to the entire apartment
They had the ability to capsize the cots and to tip themselves out onto the tiled floor to gain further access to the apartment
An apartment which had work surfaces, kitchen implements, including one supposes the normal range of knives, glasses, glass jugs, ceramics and porcelain / crockery
An apartment which had its normal quote of mirrors and hard surfaces in the bathroom
An apartment which had its normal quote of sharp and hard corners on furniture
and so on
BUT WHICH ALSO HAD
Terfenadine - a drug now no longer available in most of the world - and available in the UK only on named prescription from certain named importers.  This was lying around in the bedroom
not to mention Calpol, Nurofen, and Losec
New Zealand wine,
and any other "certain substances' which may or may not have been present, but which are testified to by more than one other significant witness.
It's frighting what was available to them when left alone, I will never understand why they thought this was ok leaving them on their own.

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Re: Where were the twins?

Post by Nina on 15.07.14 17:15

@Justformaddie wrote:
@PeterMac wrote:
No Fate Worse Than De'Ath wrote:I'm sure those model parents K & G would never have allowed their children access to anything which could be so dangerous!

Let us work on that.
The children had, during the long absence of their parents, access to the entire apartment
They had the ability to capsize the cots and to tip themselves out onto the tiled floor to gain further access to the apartment
An apartment which had work surfaces, kitchen implements, including one supposes the normal range of knives, glasses, glass jugs, ceramics and porcelain / crockery
An apartment which had its normal quote of mirrors and hard surfaces in the bathroom
An apartment which had its normal quote of sharp and hard corners on furniture
and so on
BUT WHICH ALSO HAD
Terfenadine - a drug now no longer available in most of the world - and available in the UK only on named prescription from certain named importers.  This was lying around in the bedroom
not to mention Calpol, Nurofen, and Losec
New Zealand wine,
and any other "certain substances' which may or may not have been present, but which are testified to by more than one other significant witness.
It's frighting what was available to them when left alone, I will never understand why they thought this was ok leaving them on their own.

I always find this rather strange, taken from Kate McCann's 6th September interview where she tells us about the medicines,
http://www.mccannfiles.com/id192.html#sta5

This snipped from this interview,

When asked, she said that before they left she took some precautions, namely placed the medicine inside a bag with a clasp in her room inside the wardrobe or the dresser. These were Calpol (paracetamol) and Nurofen (ibuprofen), for fevers and pains, both for adults and children (packages in liquid for the children). In this bag there was also a small pair of scissors. In the kitchen were cutting items that were used to prepare the meals and which were not put out of sight. During their trips it was normal for them to take these medicines. During these holidays she never gave any medicine to her children, nor did Gerry. She now says that Gerry also took medicine for acidity called Losec (omeprozole) which they also possessed.

So, the precautions she took re medicines was to place them into a bag with a cleasp, then placed the bag either in the wardrobe or a dresser. Which means to place them into a bag, then clasp it closed and put into a wardrobe, the medicines must have been out of the clasped bag. So who had taken them?

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