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Libel Trial Postponement: The Truth about the McCanns' Lie - by Nigel Moore. - Page 10 Mm11

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Post by Guest on 23.06.14 9:49

I think it's more a case of expressing one's opinion, Tony.
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Post by kevmack on 23.06.14 10:18

@Tony Bennett wrote:
@The Rooster wrote:Good working logic there Kev. 
'Logic', The Rooster?

'Working logic', The Rooster?

And 'Good' working logic?

kevmack said this:  "Yes, you just said it...audacity and chutzpah, that sums up the McCanns and the reasons for their current escape from justice...no more, no less imo. No hidden power, no dark forces...just sheer brass neck and an heck of a lot of luck (with a few side bits of political involvement thrown in)"

Either you have an exceptional genius for spotting 'good working logic' in the unlikeliest of places - or, quite frankly, you are talking rubbish
I think the Rooster had probably read my previous posts in the thread Tony and was referring to them.  Maybe you should have found out what he was referring to before insulting him and saying he is talking rubbish
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Post by Tony Bennett on 23.06.14 11:19

@kevmack wrote:
@Tony Bennett wrote:
@The Rooster wrote:Good working logic there Kev. 
'Logic', The Rooster?

'Working logic', The Rooster?

And 'Good' working logic?

kevmack said this:  "Yes, you just said it...audacity and chutzpah, that sums up the McCanns and the reasons for their current escape from justice...no more, no less imo. No hidden power, no dark forces...just sheer brass neck and an heck of a lot of luck (with a few side bits of political involvement thrown in)"

Either you have an exceptional genius for spotting 'good working logic' in the unlikeliest of places - or, quite frankly, you are talking rubbish
I think the Rooster had probably read my previous posts in the thread Tony and was referring to them.  Maybe you should have found out what he was referring to before insulting him and saying he is talking rubbish
On the contrary, I have read the thread and have noted such comments from you as...

QUOTE kevmack

Maybe someone has spoken, maybe when the Portuguese and SY first got together they were able to pinpoint...perhaps new evidence did come to light...I'm not entirely convinced that...I suppose we just won't know (and why would we, the police never give a running commentary...) The reason that I still believe there will be a proper resolution, is that I don't believe the PJ would re-open the case just to whitewash it on the behalf of the British...and although Gonçalo was a well respected, long serving officer, that doesn't mean he is necessarily in the loop...I am still of the opinion that there is a genuine investigation going on and that there is a good working relationship between the PJ and SY...

UNQUOTE

++++++++++++++++++

Forgive me, but all I see here is your speculation - and, moreover, speculation without evidence. For example, you assert that there is 'a good working relationship' between the PJ and SY - when we have had countless well-sourced reports in the past year that, on the contrary, the relationship is very frosty. All the PJ have done, that I can see, is say: "OK, have your helicopter, bring your devices, bring your ground-penetrating radar, bring your augers, bring your officers, bring your telescopes, bring your cameramen, bring your police tents, in fact bring all you want to because, at the end of the day, we are going to send you a whacking great invoice for all the expense you are putting us to".

Thus The Rooster is surely mistaken in thinking you have used logic, let alone 'working logic' or even 'good working logic', whatever that may mean. Unless, that is, I am too dense to see the penetrating logic of your arguments, whereas The Rooster is perhaps possessed with an extra dimension of insight.

But I'm pretty sure I know why you and The Rooster stand together in proclaiming the SY investiagtion, helicopter rides and digs as a no-holds-barred, genuine search for the truth   

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Dr Martin Roberts: "The evidence is that these are the pjyamas Madeleine wore on holiday in Praia da Luz. They were photographed and the photo handed to a press agency, who released it on 8 May, as the search for Madeleine continued. The McCanns held up these same pyjamas at two press conferences on 5 & 7June 2007. How could Madeleine have been abducted?"

Amelie McCann (aged 2): "Maddie's jammies!".  

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Post by kevmack on 23.06.14 11:35

But I'm pretty sure I know why you and The Rooster stand together in proclaiming the SY investiagtion, helicopter rides and digs as a no-holds-barred, genuine search for the truth   


Oh and what would that be Tony?  You do realise that I only "know" The Rooster from this forum, and to be honest, he was just another poster until you launched your attack on him last week, and I defended him because I thought you were in the wrong, and I still do, other than that, I know nothing about him, we don't collaborate on theories or anything else for that matter, and I really do not like your insinuation that somehow, because we share an opinion that is different from yours, that we are somehow in cahoots or something.


This is yet another thread that you have derailed.  Why do you keep doing this.  Admin have specifically requested that if you have an issue with someone, you should either pm a mod or admin or the person themselves, but yet you keep launching personal attacks on people on the open forum
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Post by Guest on 23.06.14 11:40

Yes I agree with that, KM.

Please can we have an end to any comments that people who happen to share an opinion on anything must be in collusion with each other.
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Post by kevmack on 23.06.14 11:49

No Fate Worse Than De'Ath wrote:Yes I agree with that, KM.

Please can we have an end to any comments that people who happen to share an opinion on anything must be in collusion with each other.
Thank you NFWTD.  I just want to have a discussion about the case, I know it's frustrating when things seem to have stalled and we can't see how, if at all, this is going to be resolved, but I'd far rather keep my positive head on and am now looking forward to the libel trial resuming shortly, now that Gonçalo has his new lawyer.
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Post by Bishop Brennan on 23.06.14 12:42

sally66 wrote:I can't fathom it at all

It sometimes seems like a strategic war game with the McCanns, PJ, SY, UK Government, Portugal Goverment, NI, GA and a player known only to those involved

I think they all  underestimated GA and what he is prepared to sacrifice for justice for a 3 year old child.  


I think that's right. For the past 7 years, Amaral has been the (only) torch-bearer for Madeleine. Without him the story would have died along with Madeleine back in 2007. In the next few months we will find out whether he is to be destroyed once and for all by losing the libel case, or whether his persistence has led SY and PJ to find the truth.

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Post by Cristobell on 23.06.14 12:52

@Bishop Brennan wrote:
sally66 wrote:I can't fathom it at all

It sometimes seems like a strategic war game with the McCanns, PJ, SY, UK Government, Portugal Goverment, NI, GA and a player known only to those involved

I think they all  underestimated GA and what he is prepared to sacrifice for justice for a 3 year old child.  


I think that's right. For the past 7 years, Amaral has been the (only) torch-bearer for Madeleine.  Without him the story would have died along with Madeleine back in 2007.  In the next few months we will find out whether he is to be destroyed once and for all by losing the libel case, or whether his persistence has led SY and PJ to find the truth.  

I think his persistence will pay off BB  smilie  He has been a constant thorn in the McCanns side from the beginning, it might even explain their irrational hatred of him.  They are probably right.  If Goncalo had not existed, would they have got away with the perfect crime?
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Post by kevmack on 23.06.14 13:00

I think you're right cristobell, I can almost feel a scooby doo moment coming on where the dastardly villain proclaims "if it wasn't for those pesky kids" lol

But yes, on a serious note, Gonçalo has persisted and not given up in the face of adversity, and that must really irk the McCanns...which is good to see as there isn't much else that annoys them as much as he does
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Post by roy rovers on 23.06.14 14:42

Dee Coy wrote:Thanks for answering, kevmac, and I really hope you're right. yes 

But I think all the evidence taken at face value screams cover-up. And Goncalo, with his first-hand experiences, is more in a position to reach the correct conclusion. I'm sure he's right.

But, yes, that in itself raises other questions.  Why did they send Eddie and Keela? What was so big that Cameron was forced into opening the review?

My hope is that there is more than one almighty power involved. And one of those is no longer on the side of whitewash.

You're saying it's a conspiracy. The 'authorities' are conspiring to cover up the truth. But the problem with conspiracy theories is that they rarely take account of the logistics that would need to be involved to maintain the conspiracy / cover up. Just think of those who would need to be involved any one of whom could expose the cover up at any time.

Any number of people will tell you that the moon landings were faked and the event was filmed in a hanger to best the Russians for security reasons. But think of the thousands of people who would have been needed to plan and project manage it, prepare the hanger, build the sets, film it, act in it, etc etc. Again any one of those involved could have exposed the cover up at any time.
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Post by j.rob on 23.06.14 16:47

The 'conspiracy theory' was started by the McCanns. There was never any evidence of a break-in or an abductor. They conspired to pervert the course of justice, imo, in order to cover up what had really happened.

This I think is along the lines that Amaral is suggesting. That an abduction was faked to cover up Madeleine's death in the apartment. And then there was an Establishment cover-up. 

He must know and understand more than most about the case.

Quite how and why the McCanns were given so much protection so early on and for so long is naturally a matter of speculation and debate. Those who have studied the case for a long time are likely to be much better informed than others. And understand the ramifications of the case more than others. 

But the main conspiracy theorists were, and continue to be the McCanns and their supporters. Who continue to stick to a fabricated version of events.

IMO.
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Post by tigger on 23.06.14 18:52

No Fate Worse Than De'Ath wrote:Yes I agree with that, KM.

Please can we have an end to any comments that people who happen to share an opinion on anything must be in collusion with each other.

Why aren't you sorting out Iraq or standing for the United Nations as a special representative?
You'rejust what they're looking for.  roses 

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Post by Brian Griffin on 23.06.14 18:56

@kevmack wrote:I think you're right cristobell, I can almost feel a scooby doo moment coming on where the dastardly villain proclaims "if it wasn't for those pesky kids" lol
Probably thought the same thing seven years ago when they wanted to go and get pissed up with their posh mates down the tapas bar!
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Post by tasprin on 23.06.14 19:04

After several hearings the book was unbanned. So, if they win this trial will the book be banned again? There's hardly much point in them stopping Amaral from speaking if his book is still on sale for all to read. Or is it just the English speaking market they're worried about? If they win I doubt it'll ever be published in English.
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Post by Brian Griffin on 23.06.14 19:13

It already IS published in English, on the Internet. Anyone can read it. I know what you mean though - you mean published in book format in English.

And if I'm not mistaken, if GA made it a Public Domain work, anyone could publish it. You'd have it springing up all over the place like moles popping out of the soil on a freshly-mown lawn. 'Course you probably wouldn't want to given the wrath wreaked against anyone who refuses to believe the set version of events.
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Post by ChippyM on 24.06.14 10:20

@roy rovers wrote:
Dee Coy wrote:Thanks for answering, kevmac, and I really hope you're right. yes 

But I think all the evidence taken at face value screams cover-up. And Goncalo, with his first-hand experiences, is more in a position to reach the correct conclusion. I'm sure he's right.

But, yes, that in itself raises other questions.  Why did they send Eddie and Keela? What was so big that Cameron was forced into opening the review?

My hope is that there is more than one almighty power involved. And one of those is no longer on the side of whitewash.

You're saying it's a conspiracy. The 'authorities' are conspiring to cover up the truth. But the problem with conspiracy theories is that they rarely take account of the logistics that would need to be involved to maintain the conspiracy / cover up. Just think of those who would need to be involved any one of whom could expose the cover up at any time.

Any number of people will tell you that the moon landings were faked and the event was filmed in a hanger to best the Russians for security reasons. But think of the thousands of people who would have been needed to plan and project manage it, prepare the hanger, build the sets, film it, act in it, etc etc. Again any one of those involved could have exposed the cover up at any time.

 I don't believe that's how a successful cover up works. To pull something off like that the people at the top just need to make sure the people lower down the chain only know enough to do their bit, it's referred to as 'compartmentalisation'. I'm not saying this is definitely going on in the McCann case but say if you have a large team like SY, the people in charge may know there are certain areas they are not allowed to go, they could sub organise smaller teams who each have their own orders and even less 'inside' information and so on and so on.

 There are examples of this in recent history such as the US Area 51/ Groom lake testing facility where pilots were given cover stories to give to their families and none essential staff where sent to mess halls that weren't in view of the secret planes when they were taking off, all those people working there and it was kept secret for years until recent declassification!  Even when pilots died the families weren't aware of what they'd actually been doing. There's also the Greenbrier hotel that had a nuclear bunker facility built under it in the 1950s for the US president, people working on it walked in and out disguised as TV repair men and the staff never noticed, it was kept secret for over 30 years. It sounds like conspiracy B.S. but it's all documented.  What kept people from telling is a combination of 'need to know basis' and incentives such as money, career, or imprisonment etc.

 Sorry for the off topic but I have no trouble believing a cover up could have been implemented around the McCann case. Proving it happened and to what extent it exists is a different matter!
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Post by PeterMac on 24.06.14 10:56

@ChippyM wrote:I'm not saying this is definitely going on in the McCann case but say if you have a large team like SY, the people in charge may know there are certain areas they are not allowed to go, they could sub organise smaller teams who each have their own orders and even less 'inside' information and so on and so on.

Have you ever met a policeman ?  big grin 
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Post by ChippyM on 24.06.14 12:16

@PeterMac wrote:
@ChippyM wrote:I'm not saying this is definitely going on in the McCann case but say if you have a large team like SY, the people in charge may know there are certain areas they are not allowed to go, they could sub organise smaller teams who each have their own orders and even less 'inside' information and so on and so on.

Have you ever met a policeman ?   big grin 

A couple, I was being hypothetical of course!
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Post by jeanmonroe on 24.06.14 12:35

@tasprin wrote:After several hearings the book was unbanned. So, if they win this trial will the book be banned again? There's hardly much point in them stopping Amaral from speaking if his book is still on sale for all to read. Or is it just the English speaking market they're worried about? If they win I doubt it'll ever be published in English.
-----------------------------------------------------
by Brian Griffin on Mon Jun 23, 2014 7:13 pm

It already IS published in English, on the Internet. Anyone can read it. I know what you mean though - you mean published in book format in English.
---------------------------------------------------------

The book of GA IS already out there, according to McCann libel case 'witness' Emma Loach.

c) Guerra & Paz's lawyer's questions

GP – I understand that, from 2010, you and the McCanns met once every three months. Do you know when the book was published? Do you know how the McCanns had access to the book? Did they speak about it in general?

EL says they spoke of the conclusion in particular.

GP – Do you know if the book was published in the UK?

Emma Loach: says 'she SAW it in bookshops'

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Post by aiyoyo on 24.06.14 13:04

@tasprin wrote:After several hearings the book was unbanned. So, if they win this trial will the book be banned again? There's hardly much point in them stopping Amaral from speaking if his book is still on sale for all to read. Or is it just the English speaking market they're worried about? If they win I doubt it'll ever be published in English.

You raised an interesting point.
Thus by logic of reasoning it would mean when mcs lost the injunction their case has no leg to stand on; and Amaral will win.

It is not possible to have the mccanns in a win situation and yet the book can be circulated - it does not work like that, as the libel is about stopping his book.

IIRC the three judges made it clear that the ' lift of the injunction' decision cannot be appealed; nonetheless ID did appeal but futile. as the higher appeal court upheld the 3 judges' decision.
I just can't see how this judge can contravene the decision of two Appeal Courts without such action being seen as making a mockery of the Portuguese Judiciary system, so I can't see the realistic prospect of the probability of that (u-turning the un-ban)happening.

There is no two ways about it. The writing is already set in stone that chances are stacked in Dr. Amaral favor.




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Post by aiyoyo on 24.06.14 13:16

@jeanmonroe wrote:
@tasprin wrote:After several hearings the book was unbanned. So, if they win this trial will the book be banned again? There's hardly much point in them stopping Amaral from speaking if his book is still on sale for all to read. Or is it just the English speaking market they're worried about? If they win I doubt it'll ever be published in English.
-----------------------------------------------------
by Brian Griffin on Mon Jun 23, 2014 7:13 pm

It already IS published in English, on the Internet. Anyone can read it. I know what you mean though - you mean published in book format in English.
---------------------------------------------------------

The book of GA IS already out there, according to McCann libel case 'witness' Emma Loach.

c) Guerra & Paz's lawyer's questions

GP – I understand that, from 2010, you and the McCanns met once every three months. Do you know when the book was published? Do you know how the McCanns had access to the book? Did they speak about it in general?

EL says they spoke of the conclusion in particular.

GP – Do you know if the book was published in the UK?

Emma Loach: says 'she SAW it in bookshops'


EL is not being entirely truthful there.
She was a liability to the mcs, as were all the rest of the witnesses that based their testimonies on hearsay second hand info from Mccanns.

If the mcs are defeated, I cant see how they can get the UK court to impose an injunction on the book when there is already a Court's decision that the book is not libelous of the mccanns.

If, after the win, Amaral should get the book translated into English for circulation, it would be interesting to see how the mccanns are going to stop the circulation in UK? They no longer can claim the book is libellous on the back of the Portuguese Court's ruling, neither would they have a strong ground coming on the back of OG search-dig for the body.
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Post by plebgate on 07.07.14 8:32

Two stories for the papers tomorrow - this one and the Chief Civil Servant tasked to try and find out what happened to the missing files which were given to Leon Briton has been summoned to appear before a House of Commons Committee to tell them how he intends to go about it etc. etc.

Think I can guess which will get the biggest headlines UK.
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Post by Shibboleth on 07.07.14 11:28

@aiyoyo wrote:
@jeanmonroe wrote:
@tasprin wrote:After several hearings the book was unbanned. So, if they win this trial will the book be banned again? There's hardly much point in them stopping Amaral from speaking if his book is still on sale for all to read. Or is it just the English speaking market they're worried about? If they win I doubt it'll ever be published in English.
-----------------------------------------------------
by Brian Griffin on Mon Jun 23, 2014 7:13 pm

It already IS published in English, on the Internet. Anyone can read it. I know what you mean though - you mean published in book format in English.
---------------------------------------------------------

The book of GA IS already out there, according to McCann libel case 'witness' Emma Loach.

c) Guerra & Paz's lawyer's questions

GP – I understand that, from 2010, you and the McCanns met once every three months. Do you know when the book was published? Do you know how the McCanns had access to the book? Did they speak about it in general?

EL says they spoke of the conclusion in particular.

GP – Do you know if the book was published in the UK?

Emma Loach: says 'she SAW it in bookshops'


EL is not being entirely truthful there.
She was a liability to the mcs, as were all the rest of the witnesses that based their testimonies on hearsay second hand info from Mccanns.

If the mcs are defeated, I cant see how they can get the UK court to impose an injunction on the book when there is already a Court's decision that the book is not libelous of the mccanns.

If, after the win, Amaral should get the book translated into English for circulation, it would be interesting to see how the mccanns are going to stop the circulation in UK?  They no longer can claim the book is libellous on the back of the Portuguese Court's ruling, neither would they have a strong ground coming on the back of OG search-dig for the body.
And the witness Michael Wright?  Where is the proof of the conspiracy to abduct the twins, force them to tell what they saw?  He said he saw this on a forum.  Where is this proof?

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“Ideas are more powerful than guns. We would not let our enemies have guns, why should we let them have ideas.” ~ Joseph Stalin, 1897-1953
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Shibboleth
Shibboleth

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