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GOLF mates

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Re: GOLF mates

Post by Guest on 28.05.14 16:05

TexMac wrote:

"they certainly know each other now by the looks of it" - it seems that an assumption is being made that the picture shows Gerry with Walkden.  I can't see where it tells us that, in fact it seems more likely that it is Gerry with Spillane.  Also, I don't see anything in the article to let me conclude that they certainly know each other now - all it mentions is that Walkden caddied for Spillane, and then separately says Danny (Spillane) was joined for these by Gerry.  I think we have jumped to conclusions with this.

This subject seems to have got everybody touchier than Morten Harket.
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Re: GOLF mates

Post by Guest on 28.05.14 16:19

From McCannfiles http://www.mccannfiles.com/id1.htm (Timesonline 12th May 2007):

Rothley boasts the street with the most expensive properties in the East Midlands, according to a Sunday Times survey, although in reality it is a village of mixed incomes with five pubs, three churches, a primary school and library. There they were building a happy family and professional life. Mr McCann would cycle six miles to work and played golf when he had time. His wife would go to the gym and take the children swimming. She was due to start working two days a week instead of one and a half when she returned from Portugal. They attend Rothley's Roman Catholic church.
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Re: GOLF mates

Post by CynicAl on 28.05.14 16:22

@tigger wrote:
@TozerDerry wrote:
@tigger wrote:
Clay Regazzoni wrote:
@TozerDerry wrote:
Now the conspiracy sounds fine but by assuming the opposite, one finds a perfectly rational and uninteresting explanation.

I think I'll be the judge of what I consider interesting or otherwise, thanks very much.

Well TD, it would possibly uninteresting weren't it for the fact that itjust happened to be Walkden's hire car where thefigures didn't add up.
Add to that iirc that Walkden apparently said he didn't know  Gerry McCann despite the  fact that they are members of the same golf club, possibly the same lodge.

Well, they certainly know each other now by the looks of it.  laughat 
Again- was Gerry Mccann a member of that Golf Club in 2007.

The more you search for support for your thesis the less likely you are to be right. To support your thesis you need to consider trying to counter the opposite. This is how forensics worls.

From KW's  rog. Statement:   I am not familiar with any member of the McCann family and neither do I know any of them.
This was in April 2008.

Gerry was a golf enthusiast to such an extend that he made a few golf trips abroad, gave Father Seddon a set of golf clubs when he married them.
A set of golf clubs was stolen from their car in Rothley, where do you think he played golf once he lived in Rothley? St. Andrews?

Re the bolded sentence above, Imo it stands as an example of  the Blairite education system. A 100% success rate.

Please read it  to yourself and work out if you wish to consider to attempt countering the opposite, because countering the opposite would mean you're right back with the thesis you don't like, possibly because you know that the more you search the less likely it is that you'll be right about this thesis,  countering the opposite again and then losing heart because - so how pointless can it all be?

A cosmic question.... splat 




All these things start to become anecdotal...

I do work for a number of clients (17 families or individuals that I know of) who can each be divided up into the memberships of two golf clubs. One golf club is a small, local one. The other is a larger, prestigious club. In the case of each golf club I met the clients without being members of the golf club. In the case of each group, I met the clients as the result of having first served one principal from the golf club successfully, and being given referrals. In each case the principal client was recommended to my business by someone that both of us know, but who isn't a member of the golf club, and I am not a member of the golf club either. In the cases of each club, the principals who were impressed by my business service shared my number with friends who were also members of the golf club. But the further removed the referrals were from the principal, the more remote the knowledge of the principal was. The principal, in both cases, was a very successful businessman, senior in years, and established in the community. Both were also Freemasons. Neither knew each other. Although one had heard of the other's business in spite of being 25 miles removed. By the count of the last client who has come from a 'golf club' referral, I would say that the last half of the referred clients had absolutely no personal knowledge or contact with the principal, and the last quarter had barely any knowledge of the second tier referrers...

Yet all of them came from the same chain, with the same source, the same root, the same golf clubs.

The only thing that tells you is that whatever business I'm in, golf club members tend to network better than joe public and business cards get handed around on the 11th green... You can never keep a lid on people talking, people recommending, people overhearing, people gossiping.

I've had people stop me in the street or at a shop counter or in a store and say 'hey... I know you from the gym' or 'we go to the same restaurant regularly and I see you there all the time.' I hope to God if any of them end up suspected of murder, that my name won't appear all over the internet because I went to the same restaurant or gym as they did.

You can only infer conspiracy over elements that are fully under control.

Was the car rental company under the control of Walkden or someone higher up than Walkden at the time of the rental? Did the car stay under that same control? Did the next renter also exercise his rental under that same control? Did all the possible circumstances that could befall that car get averted because all of them were carefully controlled by the same conspiracy? Did other drivers around the car on the days between and during the two rentals belong to the same conspiracy so as to avoid collision with the car? One change of happenstance could completely derail a conspiracy involving a common car in uncontrollable circumstances. So if the scene could not be controlled, no one capable of a high-level conspiracy as would be required for complete collusion in this case would possibly use an uncontrollable element in order to attempt a caper which requires continuity from one point in time to another point in time. What did Walkden do in that car to set it up for McCann later? What if the car had been destroyed between the Walkden and McCann rentals? Would the 'operation' have to be cancelled and attempted again? Why leave the fate of the car, and indeed the possibility that it might be rented by McCann later to circumstance? Why not coincide the two trips to pass the car on back to back?

This is the biggest struggle I have with these 'all encompassing' conspiracy theories... These people are supposed to be powerful, influential, conspiratorial enough to be able to make magic happen... Yet they continually rely on blind luck, risk the plan on chance, capitalise on circumstance and are seen to be engaged more in reaction than committment to planning. If they're so good, why is there any evidence of dark deeds at all? If they're so protected, so empowered, so well-planned, then why aren't we talking about MBM in the same way as we talk about Ben Needham, blissfully unaware of even the possibility of connecting the dots with wild assumptions?

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Re: GOLF mates

Post by Guest on 28.05.14 16:23

@TozerDerry wrote:
Clay Regazzoni wrote:
@TozerDerry wrote:
Again- was Gerry Mccann a member of that Golf Club in 2007.


Why don't you use your forensic method and prove that he wasn't.
We have no evidence that he has ever been a member of the club.

When the PJ checked previous renters of the Renault Scenic 59-DA-27, they were asked a number of questions, including whether they knew the McCann family. The driver but one before the McCannswas Kenneth Walkden, who was interviewed on April 29th 2008. He hired the car between March 25th and April 1st 2007 for a golfing holiday with some friends. The distance travelled in the car was945km. 

He doesn’t say which golf course they were playing on, but the Boavista or Parque da Floresta may have been amongst the possible destinations. The trip was organised by his friend P S and Mr Walkdensaid that they all went on holiday together every year.  Maybe to the same venue? The Scenic was also used by a number of golfers other than the Walkden party.


Mr Walkden  told the PJ:

“I am not familiar with any member of the McCann family. Neither do I know any of them.” 

I’m sure by this time he knew exactly who the McCann family were and where they lived. Hardly a soul in the UK or Portugal didn’t know who they were by 2008. But he didn’t know them personally it seems.

Mr Walkden happened to be a member of the exclusive and prestigious Rothley Park Golf Club, as did at least four members of his party. The same golf club where Gerry McCann played golf every Monday, according to an article by Anna Pukas in The Mail on January 5th 2008

Kate’s book
 is very helpful, as she confirms Gerry joined the Rothley Park Golf Club before she started her IVF treatment, which means Gerry had been a member for at least 5 years when Mr Walkden made his statement.  She also states that Gerry had been to play golf in Portugal a couple of times, dates unspecified, in her book.  Gerry, in contrast, claims to have played golf in Albufeira only once in 1994, according to his PJ statement. Why golf-mad Gerry didn’t even mention the word when describing their holiday activities is a continuing puzzle

 Returning to Mr Walkden, would a more accurate answer  have been along the lines of ..? 

“I don’t know Mr McCann personally, but I now know he’s a member of my golf club.”

 Not necessarily something the club wanted to advertise perhaps, but true.

Or maybe the first time they met was the Summer Event in July 2011, as part of the club’s Centenary celebrationsGerry was there and so was Mr Walkden. Another one of those “fancy that” momentswhen they discovered they had both used the same hire car in 2007?

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Re: GOLF mates

Post by CynicAl on 28.05.14 16:26

@TozerDerry wrote:Coincidences- I was in California on that day driving from Yosemite to Big Sur. At about 5pm my wife said -there's a hell of a wind in these hills, and I said don't be silly its dead still. At about 5pm I turned on the radio to listen to the World Series which was SF Oakland. And they said there had been an earthquake. Maybe I caused it! The previous week we had stayed in one of the hotels trashed in the Marina district!

It was YOU!

And to think, I've been blaming myself all these years!


Oh... I wonder if that affected the judgement I used when I called the FBI and mentioned that one of my friends was in the WTC on the 10th of September before flying back that evening...to Boston. ;-)

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Re: GOLF mates

Post by HelenMeg on 28.05.14 16:29

All of this relates back to our discussions on the hire car thread:

  https://jillhavern.forumotion.net/t6458p420-mccanns-hire-car-contract

We only found newsletters for Rothley Park Golf Club from 2011 onwards so therefore could not verify a link between Gerry and Ken prior to that.
However, we know that Michael Wright had travelled to Pd L golfing some weeks before Gerry and had actually driven the same hire car. 

John Geraghty was a friend of Danny Spillane.  There are multi connections through Golf (the Parque de Fxxxxx club ) and the Vigia Group which was started by 4 Leicester Business men.
Everyone appears to be linked through Leicester / Rothley Park Golf Club / Boavista golf / Parque de Floresta / Dannhy Spillane etc.  If Ken did not know Gerry in 2007 I'll eat my hat(only an opinion)

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Re: GOLF mates

Post by CynicAl on 28.05.14 16:34

If we're throwing around wild theories from imagination, then how about this one...

Walkden and others at Rothley Golf Club talked a lot about the good golf at PDL. And so did thousands of other people across Europe. Some of which included a certain McCann and friends... And so a trip was planned, families in tow, maybe someone said 'it's a good time of year to go... not too busy with tourists, not too hot...' But then a wife said 'this is going to be a holiday with me... you think you're just going to go off with the boys to play golf? Think again!' And as a result a certain grumpy man ended up being video'd on the bus from the airport griping 'It's not like I'm here to have a good time' or words to that effect, as he seethed over what favourite activities he wouldn't be getting to perform.

Funny how much more mundane, everyday situations can create a more plausible, albeit imaginary scenario without having to resort to weaving an elaborate conspiracy of premeditated murder in order to explain a single moment in time captured abstractly on a video camera.

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Re: GOLF mates

Post by Guest on 28.05.14 16:39

CynicAl - what do you think happened to Madeleine?

Found the answer:

"I'm still going with accidental death, with damage management. 

Although I did wonder whether there was evidence supporting the possibility that this was a family-controlled euthanasia of a terminally ill youngster?"
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Re: GOLF mates

Post by wicksy on 28.05.14 16:41

What I find hard to believe is that G, evidently a keen golfer who had been to Portugal before on golfing trips, apparently didn't go for a single relaxing round of golf during his stay in 2007. So the original booked holiday week he just wanted to improve his tennis. OK, I suppose that was included in the price. But during his extended holiday? Not one round of golf? All those excellent Algarve golf courses didn't tempt him? It's almost like he didn't want anyone to connect him with a golf club, or golf club member, in the PdL area.

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Re: GOLF mates

Post by Guest on 28.05.14 16:41

Ladyinred wrote:CynicAl - what do you think happened to Madeleine?
TozerDerry - Could you answer the same question?
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Re: GOLF mates

Post by MrsC on 28.05.14 16:44

Clay Regazzoni wrote:
This subject seems to have got everybody touchier than Morten Harket.

I was just thinking the very same.
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Re: GOLF mates

Post by Lance De Boils on 28.05.14 16:46

It seems that Kenneth Arthur Walkden is indeed Mr Inflatable.
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Re: GOLF mates

Post by tigger on 28.05.14 16:51

@MrsC wrote:
Clay Regazzoni wrote:
This subject seems to have got everybody touchier than Morten Harket.

I was just thinking the very same.
To save copying that delightful novelette about the earthquake above -  An earthquake is generally seen as an 'Act of God' i.e. something inevitable in which mere humans play no part. 

Putting a dead body in a car in order to transport it from A to B is definitely only human agency. 
 spin

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Re: GOLF mates

Post by plebgate on 28.05.14 16:55

TexMac wrote:
@tigger wrote:
Clay Regazzoni wrote:
@TozerDerry wrote:
Now the conspiracy sounds fine but by assuming the opposite, one finds a perfectly rational and uninteresting explanation.

I think I'll be the judge of what I consider interesting or otherwise, thanks very much.

Well TD, it would possibly uninteresting weren't it for the fact that itjust happened to be Walkden's hire car where thefigures didn't add up.
Add to that iirc that Walkden apparently said he didn't know  Gerry McCann despite the  fact that they are members of the same golf club, possibly the same lodge.

Well, they certainly know each other now by the looks of it.  laughat 

"they certainly know each other now by the looks of it" - it seems that an assumption is being made that the picture shows Gerry with Walkden.  I can't see where it tells us that, in fact it seems more likely that it is Gerry with Spillane.  Also, I don't see anything in the article to let me conclude that they certainly know each other now - all it mentions is that Walkden caddied for Spillane, and then separately says Danny (Spillane) was joined for these by Gerry.  I think we have jumped to conclusions with this.
http://www.rothleypark.co.uk/theteam.htm

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Re: GOLF mates

Post by tigger on 28.05.14 16:56

From McCannfiles:
Rothley boasts the street with the most expensive properties in the East Midlands, according to a Sunday Times survey, although in reality it is a village of mixed incomes with five pubs, three churches, a primary school and library. There they were building a happy family and professional life. Mr McCann would cycle six miles to work and played golf when he had time. His wife would go to the gym and take the children swimming. She was due to start working two days a week instead of one and a half when she returned from Portugal. They attend Rothley's Roman Catholic church.
Unquote

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Re: GOLF mates

Post by Guest on 28.05.14 16:57

Sorry for going off course (ouch!) - I actually know who Morten Harket is but not that he is apparently touchy. What's that about?
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Re: GOLF mates

Post by PeterMac on 28.05.14 17:00

@wicksy wrote:What I find hard to believe is that G, evidently a keen golfer who had been to Portugal before on golfing trips, apparently didn't go for a single relaxing round of golf during his stay in 2007. So the original booked holiday week he just wanted to improve his tennis. OK, I suppose that was included in the price. But during his extended holiday? Not one round of golf? All those excellent Algarve golf courses didn't tempt him? It's almost like he didn't want anyone to connect him with a golf club, or golf club member, in the PdL area.
Though he did run up to the golf course every day, timing it and telling the world on his post-traumatic blog that they did a PB of 19 minutes.
They called it the trig point, but it is actually on the edge of the Golf course.

[img][/img]

And this was true of all the months afterwards. There was no mention of a quick round with Dr Amaral, or the nice Family Liaison person . . .

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Re: GOLF mates

Post by tigger on 28.05.14 17:01

-

From Textusa: Chasing Cars & Doctors. February 2014

Kate’s book is very helpful, as she confirms Gerry joined the Rothley Park Golf Club before she started her IVF treatment, which means Gerry had been a member for at least 5 years when Mr Walkden made his statement.  She also states that Gerry had been to play golf in Portugal a couple of times, dates unspecified, in her book.  Gerry, in contrast, claims to have played golf in Albufeira only once in 1994, according to his PJ statement. Why golf-mad Gerry didn’t even mention the word when describing their holiday activities is a continuing puzzle.
Unquote

KH1 is such a useful document.  laughat

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Re: GOLF mates

Post by Guest on 28.05.14 17:03

No Fate Worse Than De'Ath wrote:Sorry for going off course (ouch!) - I actually know who Morten Harket is but not that he is apparently touchy. What's that about?
A-Ha Song.

Touch me.
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Re: GOLF mates

Post by MrsC on 28.05.14 17:04

No Fate Worse Than De'Ath wrote:Sorry for going off course (ouch!) - I actually know who Morten Harket is but not that he is apparently touchy. What's that about?

I think it's from the a-ha song The Sun Always Shines on TV:

Touch me
How can it be
Believe me
The sun always shines on TV
Hold me
Close to your heart
Touch me
And give all your love to me
To me

blah, blah...

 smilie

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Re: GOLF mates

Post by Guest on 28.05.14 17:06

@Lance De Boils wrote:It seems that Kenneth Arthur Walkden is indeed Mr Inflatable.


Yep, but we mustn't assume this is more than one of those very rare coincidences after all.  winkwink 
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Re: GOLF mates

Post by Guest on 28.05.14 17:08

Thank you MrsC.

Plenty of other touchy people then like Gary Glitter and "Do you want to touch me?"

Don't all rush.
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Re: GOLF mates

Post by whatliesbehindthesofa on 28.05.14 17:10

Andrew77R wrote:
No Fate Worse Than De'Ath wrote:Sorry for going off course (ouch!) - I actually know who Morten Harket is but not that he is apparently touchy. What's that about?
A-Ha Song.

Touch me.

I think you're thinking of 'Take On Me'.

A-Ha! released a song called 'Touchy' I believe.

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Re: GOLF mates

Post by Guest on 28.05.14 17:14

No Fate Worse Than De'Ath wrote:Sorry for going off course (ouch!) - I actually know who Morten Harket is but not that he is apparently touchy. What's that about?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Touchy!



I once heard this described as "a song which had its melody confiscated at customs".
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Re: GOLF mates

Post by Guest on 28.05.14 17:17

@whatliesbehindthesofa wrote:
Andrew77R wrote:
No Fate Worse Than De'Ath wrote:Sorry for going off course (ouch!) - I actually know who Morten Harket is but not that he is apparently touchy. What's that about?
A-Ha Song.

Touch me.

I think you're thinking of 'Take On Me'.

A-Ha! released a song called 'Touchy' I believe.
That's the one. Confused myself there.

Got a few A-Ha albums knocking about as well somewhere collecting dust.
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