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Madeleine McCann search to enter 'substantial phase' of activity

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Re: Madeleine McCann search to enter 'substantial phase' of activity

Post by Bishop Brennan on 22.05.14 13:52

It doesn't really matter who or what they put centre stage though does it? This entire dig is a grand finale for SY as they sign off from the case. Smithman efits and the removal of tannerman were AR's great breakthroughs. They got him precisely nowhere of course, but it's not surprising to see that the big all-cast final act has Smithman front and centre!

Have yourself a brandy there Tony and watch out for you BP. It's all theatre now as you know. The characters taking part are barely even relevant.  thumbsup 
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Re: Madeleine McCann search to enter 'substantial phase' of activity

Post by Cristobell on 22.05.14 13:53

@Tony Bennett wrote:
@PeterMac wrote:http://news.uk.msn.com/uk/madeleine-police-move-to-next-phase
Mr Rowley echoed Kate McCann's calls for restraint in media coverage of the case, and said: "I want to be able to go back to Kate and Gerry at some stage in the future and tell them we've got to the bottom of this, or second best is to go back to them and say we've turned over every stone and we can't get to an answer sometimes."
IMO the words in red tell us precisely where the Met are heading with this series of very public performances.

There will be lots more pictures and photo opportunities.

But nothing at the end of it
I don't think Theresa May will be pleased with that result, almost £10m of taxpayers money to say they can't get to an answer?  She is no mood to be fobbed off so good luck to them with that one.

However, I actually don't think SY's result is that important in the whole scheme of things - the only investigation that counts is the Portuguese one, and if they get a result and SY don't, then once again the reputation of SY will plummet and the Government will face scathing criticism in the lead up to a general election.  Theresa May will not take the backlash from the public for the failings of the police, she has already had enough grief from RB threatening to put her on the front page of the Sun every day in this case, Kate McCann ridiculing her 'fluffy words' and former CEOP head Jim Gamble tearing into her on Twitter.  

There seems to be a few different agendas going on here, so it will be interesting to see how it all pans out.

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Re: Madeleine McCann search to enter 'substantial phase' of activity

Post by Hongkong Phooey on 22.05.14 14:03

@Riddlemeree wrote:Hello - long time lurker here - my thought is what if : the police KNOW ... Because let's face it ... There are plenty of pointers...but they need a caste iron case because the core suspects are lawyered up to the eyebrows. How would they play it ? Especially since they know what suspects are capable of. What if they needed core suspects to not know they were in the spotlight - but every so often they wanted to give them a poke, a frisson of fear ... Might they play the most incredible media game - putting Holmes like clues into their press releases which will later jump out as "we knew all along " pointers while deluging the media with distractions . The suspects will be on a roller coaster of wondering whether they have finally been fingered or whether the police are still on side chasing up all sorts of red herrings . It may turn out. The police have played a blinder ... All IMHO.
Hi and welcome!
I agree the police have played a blinder however not in the same sense. The arse covering in this case is truly astonishing, what could possibly be the reason for so much high powered protection as I'm beginning to wonder if there is any logical explanation. Far from starting at ground zero and exploring every angle they have started from the complete opposite and blatantly stated the parents and friends relatives et al. are in no way involved and they are still maintaining that line.This is a complete and utter waste of time and money, with nothing to show for it. All IMO of course.
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Re: Madeleine McCann search to enter 'substantial phase' of activity

Post by tiny on 22.05.14 14:06

How can sy get away with this if they do whitewash it,  they have the main players in the palm of there hands who have all LIED but are not suspects(can you believe that) but  they go to Portugal to look for
cleaner ,housebreakers,gypsys,and a multitude of other lowlife(so they say) to say I am angry is an understatement.
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Re: Madeleine McCann search to enter 'substantial phase' of activity

Post by Woofer on 22.05.14 14:09

Bellisa wrote:A source close to the family say Madeleines parents are buoyed by this latest news.



 Now, who uses the word `buoyed`a lot ?  laughat
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Re: Madeleine McCann search to enter 'substantial phase' of activity

Post by Angelique on 22.05.14 14:12

Its very sad but once you accept that the Met are thoroughly corrupt it all seems so obvious.  Sad

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Re: Madeleine McCann search to enter 'substantial phase' of activity

Post by Woofer on 22.05.14 14:15

@gbwales wrote:

Mr Rowley did not give details about what the next phase would involve, but said officers were working through every credible line of inquiry as part of the "slog of a major investigation".

In fairness, they have pretty much exhausted all the incredible lines of inquiry...


.....  wonder if the dogs are considered `credible` ?   Probably not cos the honourable right reverend high and mighty Gerry said so.

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Re: Madeleine McCann search to enter 'substantial phase' of activity

Post by Mirage on 22.05.14 14:19

@endgame wrote:
@Riddlemeree wrote:Hello - long time lurker here - my thought is what if : the police KNOW ... Because let's face it ... There are plenty of pointers...but they need a caste iron case because the core suspects are lawyered up to the eyebrows. How would they play it ? Especially since they know what suspects are capable of. What if they needed core suspects to not know they were in the spotlight - but every so often they wanted to give them a poke, a frisson of fear ... Might they play the most incredible media game - putting Holmes like clues into their press releases which will later jump out as "we knew all along " pointers while deluging the media with distractions . The suspects will be on a roller coaster of wondering whether they have finally been fingered or whether the police are still on side chasing up all sorts of red herrings . It may turn out. The police have played a blinder ... All IMHO.
Welcome Riddlemeree. Without wishing to dampen your enthusiasm and, of course everything is possible, I can only ask if you can name a single case where this technique has been used and used successfully. I can't. Most police investigations follow a path of collecting evidence, following leads created by that evidence, forming conclusions from that evidence and when those conclusions  are certain enough, charging someone with the crime. I can see no reason to vary this tried and trusted technique with reference to the disappearance of Madeleine McCann
The big day arrives. The court case of the century.........

Scenario 1.Day 1
The morning session is taken up with reading a list of witness names to 150 potential jurors in case they know any of them. As each name is read out one or two people raise their hand and peel off from the assembled crowd. Down to 50 potential jurors by coffee break. At 11am the judge continues, "Cherie Blair....Gordon Brown" Luckily, the court usher has opened up the double doors. (Exeunt Omnes.)

Scenario 2. Day 1
Defence lawyer: My Lord, it is my contention that neither party can receive a fair trial as a result of duress they have suffered over seven years of police lies and obfuscation when they thought they were being kept informed of the investigation progress. A tragedy in itself that two victims should be victimised twice over by dint of unorthodox and unsanctioned police practices that have struck a blow at the heart of our democracy.
Judge: I agree. You are free to go Mr and Mrs Mc. Have a nice day!

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Re: Madeleine McCann search to enter 'substantial phase' of activity

Post by whatliesbehindthesofa on 22.05.14 14:22

@Tony Bennett wrote:I've just seen the BBC's news report on Mark Rowley's press conference and statement.

They are putting 'Smithman' at the very heart of their news story, thus:

Madeleine McCann search to enter 'substantial phase' of activity


Thursday 3 May 2007: Timeline



  • 20:30 Kate and Gerry McCann leave their apartment to have dinner at a Tapas bar
  • 21:05 Gerry McCann checks on Madeleine and her siblings
  • 22:00 A man is seen carrying a child wearing pyjamas heading towards the ocean
  • 22:00 Kate McCann raises the alarm that Madeleine has gone missing


Yet, never mind all the many other doubts about the validity of the Smiths' claimed sighting, DCI Redwood on CrimeWatch on 14 October 2013 very deliberately led the viewing public to believe that members of this 'Irish family' were capable of producing two e-fits (both of different men, so it seems), despite the fact that all the three Smiths who gave statements to the PJ said they didn't see his face properly because it was dark, his face was hidden, we only saw him for a second or two, etc. etc.   

How is it that some, even on this forum, can swallow such balderdash - hook, line and sinker?

The BBC have been putting at the bottom of every news article about the McCanns since Crimewatch.  It isn't new.

ETA for example:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-25124643

Exact same piece, article from 6 months ago.

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Re: Madeleine McCann search to enter 'substantial phase' of activity

Post by Woofer on 22.05.14 14:31

@Riddlemeree wrote:Hello - long time lurker here - my thought is what if : the police KNOW ... Because let's face it ... There are plenty of pointers...but they need a caste iron case because the core suspects are lawyered up to the eyebrows. How would they play it ? Especially since they know what suspects are capable of. What if they needed core suspects to not know they were in the spotlight - but every so often they wanted to give them a poke, a frisson of fear ... Might they play the most incredible media game - putting Holmes like clues into their press releases which will later jump out as "we knew all along " pointers while deluging the media with distractions . The suspects will be on a roller coaster of wondering whether they have finally been fingered or whether the police are still on side chasing up all sorts of red herrings . It may turn out. The police have played a blinder ... All IMHO.


Welcome Riddlemeree.  Oh how I wish you could be right.  You must be a true optimist  smilie
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mbm

Post by angusallan on 22.05.14 14:42

@Tony Bennett wrote:I've just seen the BBC's news report on Mark Rowley's press conference and statement.

They are putting 'Smithman' at the very heart of their news story, thus:

Madeleine McCann search to enter 'substantial phase' of activity


Thursday 3 May 2007: Timeline



  • 20:30 Kate and Gerry McCann leave their apartment to have dinner at a Tapas bar
  • 21:05 Gerry McCann checks on Madeleine and her siblings
  • 22:00 A man is seen carrying a child wearing pyjamas heading towards the ocean
  • 22:00 Kate McCann raises the alarm that Madeleine has gone missing


Yet, never mind all the many other doubts about the validity of the Smiths' claimed sighting, DCI Redwood on CrimeWatch on 14 October 2013 very deliberately led the viewing public to believe that members of this 'Irish family' were capable of producing two e-fits (both of different men, so it seems), despite the fact that all the three Smiths who gave statements to the PJ said they didn't see his face properly because it was dark, his face was hidden, we only saw him for a second or two, etc. etc.   

How is it that some, even on this forum, can swallow such balderdash - hook, line and sinker?
Fleffer what,s your wider agenda here?

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Re: Madeleine McCann search to enter 'substantial phase' of activity

Post by stillsloppingout on 22.05.14 14:43

The fun will start when Portugal produce there findings . 

But the only way there [ Portugal's ] new investigation would have been credible ,is if they had insisted the Tapas bunch be re interviewed under caution, via extradition notices, the fact that after all this time it has NOT been requested ,appears to show they are also paying lip service to the required conclusion which the UK seeks .
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Re: Madeleine McCann search to enter 'substantial phase' of activity

Post by Woofer on 22.05.14 14:43

@tiny wrote:"I want to be able to go back to Kate and Gerry at some stage in the future and tell them we've haven`t got to the bottom of this, or second best is to go back to them and say we've turned over every stone and we  still can't get to the PJ`s safe where Maddie`s hair is stored."


 

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Re: Madeleine McCann search to enter 'substantial phase' of activity

Post by nglfi on 22.05.14 14:43

@Mirage wrote:
@endgame wrote:
@Riddlemeree wrote:Hello - long time lurker here - my thought is what if : the police KNOW ... Because let's face it ... There are plenty of pointers...but they need a caste iron case because the core suspects are lawyered up to the eyebrows. How would they play it ? Especially since they know what suspects are capable of. What if they needed core suspects to not know they were in the spotlight - but every so often they wanted to give them a poke, a frisson of fear ... Might they play the most incredible media game - putting Holmes like clues into their press releases which will later jump out as "we knew all along " pointers while deluging the media with distractions . The suspects will be on a roller coaster of wondering whether they have finally been fingered or whether the police are still on side chasing up all sorts of red herrings . It may turn out. The police have played a blinder ... All IMHO.
Welcome Riddlemeree. Without wishing to dampen your enthusiasm and, of course everything is possible, I can only ask if you can name a single case where this technique has been used and used successfully. I can't. Most police investigations follow a path of collecting evidence, following leads created by that evidence, forming conclusions from that evidence and when those conclusions  are certain enough, charging someone with the crime. I can see no reason to vary this tried and trusted technique with reference to the disappearance of Madeleine McCann
The big day arrives. The court case of the century.........

Scenario 1.Day 1
The morning session is taken up with reading a list of witness names to 150 potential jurors in case they know any of them. As each name is read out one or two people raise their hand and peel off from the assembled crowd. Down to 50 potential jurors by coffee break. At 11am the judge continues, "Cherie Blair....Gordon Brown" Luckily, the court usher has opened up the double doors. (Exeunt Omnes.)

Scenario 2. Day 1
Defence lawyer: My Lord, it is my contention that neither party can receive a fair trial as a result of duress they have suffered over seven years of police lies and obfuscation when they thought they were being kept informed of the investigation progress. A tragedy in itself that two victims should be victimised twice over by dint of unorthodox and unsanctioned police practices that have struck a blow at the heart of our democracy.
Judge: I agree. You are free to go Mr and Mrs Mc. Have a nice day!
I don't think this approach by SY could lead to a mistrial. If the macs are innocent then they have lost nothing and beem unaffected by the police telling them they aren't suspects. If they are guilty, SY can legitimately say at the time we made that statement we didn't consider them suspects. Later evidence came to light which suggested they were and the direction of our investigation changed. How would they ever prove it was a deliberate ploy? I hope they haven't written it down anywhere?!

On another point,  what has caused this sea change in attitude towards the media? Rowley calling for responsible reporting is very strange, given the usual fervour for all sorts of unsavoury characters? Is it related to any substantial evidential developments? I thought his point about not wanting to alert potential suspects was very revealing.  Why the sudden concern for that now? Are they about to uncover something?

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Re: Madeleine McCann search to enter 'substantial phase' of activity

Post by Mirage on 22.05.14 14:46

"nglfi" wrote:

On another point,  what has caused this sea change in attitude towards the media? Rowley calling for responsible reporting is very strange, given the usual fervour for all sorts of unsavoury characters? Is it related to any substantial evidential developments? I thought his point about not wanting to alert potential suspects was very revealing.  Why the sudden concern for that now? Are they about to uncover something?
--------------------------------
A mysterious black hole that gobbled up the truth, I imagine.

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Re: Madeleine McCann search to enter 'substantial phase' of activity

Post by Pershing36 on 22.05.14 14:47

@tiny wrote:How can sy get away with this if they do whitewash it,  they have the main players in the palm of there hands who have all LIED but are not suspects(can you believe that) but  they go to Portugal to look for
cleaner ,housebreakers,gypsys,and a multitude of other lowlife(so they say) to say I am angry is an understatement.

What they have done is bewildered the public into thinking it could be just about anyone resembling a human being who was in Portugal at the time.  They can now say their investigation was exhaustive and they studied a variety of leads. Anything other than the original investigation the PJ followed will be a satisfactory outcome it seems.

The sad thing is a majority of the public will just accept it.
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Re: Madeleine McCann search to enter 'substantial phase' of activity

Post by bobbin on 22.05.14 14:47

Cherry Blossom wrote:Met statement day after The Times artical mentions murder!!

Met statement the day after Theresa May gives them the larapping bo**ocking they all deserved.... no, I'm being unfair.
I think there are thousands of good police men and women who themselves have been bullied into not speaking out, because of fear of reprisals from the corrupt officials hiding in their midst, and these honest men and women, who have become uncertain and unhappy, compromised in their workplace, may now be beginning to breath a sigh of relief that 'whistle-blowers' will be more supported in coming forward.

A whitewash may well become exposed from 'within' by any of the more moral and dignified police personnel.
It will come out, one way or the other.
Equally, the Portuguese are still in there and have their own 'dignity' to re-establish.

Any corrupt whitewash squad in the MET may well think they can gross this over, but they've been told that their days are numbered.
The public are not going to let this rest on a "Sorry, we looked at every angle, honest, but you know, sometimes even the MET can be beaten by really intelligent, smart, canny, perpetrators of crime".

And what a shame for these 'perpetrators', who could have 'boasted' of being the best 'out-witterers' of the 'best police force in the whole wide world' for they will not be able to bathe in such glory and adulation, or go down in history as bigger, better and even more famous than Bonny and Clyde, because they can't let anyone know who they are, because if they did that, they'd be giving the game away.

It's a bit like all that reward money, and not being able to get their hands on it. Tantalising.
All that potential adulation, fame and glory, 'A' leb red-carpet, the multi-million earnings from sitting on sofas from the far west to the far east, and no-one will ever know who the perpetrators were.
Just back to the mundane job, the mundane life, the mundane mortgage, the mundane wife and a mundane epitaph at the end of it all....died 'un-recognised'  splat

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perhaps SY wants to keep McCanns off-balance

Post by utahagen on 22.05.14 14:52

Riddlemere wrote, "...what if : the police KNOW ... Because let's face it ... There are plenty of pointers...but they need a caste iron case because the core suspects are lawyered up to the eyebrows. How would they play it ? Especially since they know what suspects are capable of..."

Amen, Riddlemere. Tony Bennett, whom I respect very much, has made a strong case that this all may be a whitewash. OK, that's possible, perhaps probable. However, there is another real possibility: that Portugal has let SY know that they will relentlessly pursue the truth and will go public with that truth eventually, even if it means they'll point to the McCanns as the culprits and even if that is in spite of the fact that Portugal will not or cannot prosecute the McCanns. If SY believes Portugal eventually may make a dramatic, public statement that the McCanns were responsible for Madeleine's disappearance, perhaps SY has backed away from trying to protect the McCanns at all cost.

Further -- and this is more to your point -- perhaps SY wants to keep the McCanns off-balance. A close friend of mine who is high up in the NYPD tells me often: when police publicly talk about how specific people are not suspects, that means nothing.

All indications from the McCanns' behavior over the past few months are that they are very nervous -- more nervous than they've ever been. It seems Tony Bennett is much more convinced it's a whitewash than the McCanns are!

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Re: Madeleine McCann search to enter 'substantial phase' of activity

Post by Cristobell on 22.05.14 15:00

@endgame wrote:
@Riddlemeree wrote:Hello - long time lurker here - my thought is what if : the police KNOW ... Because let's face it ... There are plenty of pointers...but they need a caste iron case because the core suspects are lawyered up to the eyebrows. How would they play it ? Especially since they know what suspects are capable of. What if they needed core suspects to not know they were in the spotlight - but every so often they wanted to give them a poke, a frisson of fear ... Might they play the most incredible media game - putting Holmes like clues into their press releases which will later jump out as "we knew all along " pointers while deluging the media with distractions . The suspects will be on a roller coaster of wondering whether they have finally been fingered or whether the police are still on side chasing up all sorts of red herrings . It may turn out. The police have played a blinder ... All IMHO.
Welcome Riddlemeree. Without wishing to dampen your enthusiasm and, of course everything is possible, I can only ask if you can name a single case where this technique has been used and used successfully. I can't. Most police investigations follow a path of collecting evidence, following leads created by that evidence, forming conclusions from that evidence and when those conclusions  are certain enough, charging someone with the crime. I can see no reason to vary this tried and trusted technique with reference to the disappearance of Madeleine McCann
Hi Endgame, hope you don't mind my contributing an answer.  smilie 

I have no doubt whatsoever that police the world over use subterfuge to catch their criminals.  I am hard pushed to name specific cases, other than two that became headlines - other instances may have successfully run their course without ever being discovered.  The first that comes to mind is the case of Rachel Nickell, a young woman murdered on Wimbledon Common in 1992 and the honey trap that was set for their only suspect at that time, Colin Stagg.  

More recently it has come to light that police worked undercover in the Stephen Lawrence case, some becoming so immersed in their double lives that they could not separate their aliases from their real identities.  

The truth is, we have no idea how much 'undercover' work, or subterfuge the police do carry out in order to solve a crime, but I would imagine that bending the truth plays a big part in every manner of detective work.  

The idea that everything Scotland Yard does during a live investigation is honest and transparent is ludicrous, the role of the policeman has evolved somewhat since Dixon of Dock Green.  In this case they are not dealing with smash and grab robbers, and as the nature of the crime is sophisticated, so too must be the investigation.  I think one of the reasons this case is so fascinating is because it has been like a 7 year game of Cat and Mouse, and its a cunning little mouse that has surrounded itself with top notch lawyers.

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Re: Madeleine McCann search to enter 'substantial phase' of activity

Post by margaret on 22.05.14 15:01

SY can whitewash it all they want it doesn't change a thing.  All evidence thus far points to the parents tapas group complicit in something.

Someone, somewhere will come along and blow this wide open one day and SY along with the McCanns will look as guilty as sin.

The McCanns have very little support and that won't change, social media will see to more being educated everyday.

Good luck with it all anyone who is covering something up!  big grin
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Re: Madeleine McCann search to enter 'substantial phase' of activity

Post by Tony Bennett on 22.05.14 15:08

@Bishop Brennan wrote:Have yourself a brandy there Tony and watch out for your BP.   It's all theatre now as you know.  The characters taking part are barely even relevant.   
I was hoping you might suggest a strawberry vodka [Sir Clement Freud to Kate McCann, 'madeleine', p. 194].

I think the blood pressure problem might be a kind of allergic reaction to anything connected with Operation Strange

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Re: Madeleine McCann search to enter 'substantial phase' of activity

Post by endgame on 22.05.14 15:18

@Cristobell wrote:
@endgame wrote:
@Riddlemeree wrote:Hello - long time lurker here - my thought is what if : the police KNOW ... Because let's face it ... There are plenty of pointers...but they need a caste iron case because the core suspects are lawyered up to the eyebrows. How would they play it ? Especially since they know what suspects are capable of. What if they needed core suspects to not know they were in the spotlight - but every so often they wanted to give them a poke, a frisson of fear ... Might they play the most incredible media game - putting Holmes like clues into their press releases which will later jump out as "we knew all along " pointers while deluging the media with distractions . The suspects will be on a roller coaster of wondering whether they have finally been fingered or whether the police are still on side chasing up all sorts of red herrings . It may turn out. The police have played a blinder ... All IMHO.
Welcome Riddlemeree. Without wishing to dampen your enthusiasm and, of course everything is possible, I can only ask if you can name a single case where this technique has been used and used successfully. I can't. Most police investigations follow a path of collecting evidence, following leads created by that evidence, forming conclusions from that evidence and when those conclusions  are certain enough, charging someone with the crime. I can see no reason to vary this tried and trusted technique with reference to the disappearance of Madeleine McCann
Hi Endgame, hope you don't mind my contributing an answer.  smilie 

I have no doubt whatsoever that police the world over use subterfuge to catch their criminals.  I am hard pushed to name specific cases, other than two that became headlines - other instances may have successfully run their course without ever being discovered.  The first that comes to mind is the case of Rachel Nickell, a young woman murdered on Wimbledon Common in 1992 and the honey trap that was set for their only suspect at that time, Colin Stagg.  

More recently it has come to light that police worked undercover in the Stephen Lawrence case, some becoming so immersed in their double lives that they could not separate their aliases from their real identities.  

The truth is, we have no idea how much 'undercover' work, or subterfuge the police do carry out in order to solve a crime, but I would imagine that bending the truth plays a big part in every manner of detective work.  

The idea that everything Scotland Yard does during a live investigation is honest and transparent is ludicrous, the role of the policeman has evolved somewhat since Dixon of Dock Green.  In this case they are not dealing with smash and grab robbers, and as the nature of the crime is sophisticated, so too must be the investigation.  I think one of the reasons this case is so fascinating is because it has been like a 7 year game of Cat and Mouse, and its a cunning little mouse that has surrounded itself with top notch lawyers.
Yes. I'm more than  aware that the police use any number of methods, many of which are undercover, in order to gather or confirm evidence. Neither Stagg nor Stephen Lawrence, however, provide direct parallels with the kind of master plan which so many posters assert SY are pursuing with reference to the McCanns and interestingly both relate not to brilliantly executed and successful episodes in  the Met's history but totally bungled and corrupt investigations. Not so clever then. The point at issue was whether the Met are sending subliminal messages to K and G through pointedly worded press releases in an attempt to flush them out. This I seriously doubt.

The other questions your comments raise are that, given this is the high profile, complex and sophisticated case you describe why did they appoint someone like Redwood to lead it who seems completely out of his depth dealing with all the contextual issues relating to police relations, media etc. and why are we increasingly hearing from other members of the hierarchy and not from Redwood himself?
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Re: Madeleine McCann search to enter 'substantial phase' of activity

Post by ChippyM on 22.05.14 15:20

@utahagen wrote:....
Further -- and this is more to your point -- perhaps SY wants to keep the McCanns off-balance. A close friend of mine who is high up in the NYPD tells me often: when police publicly talk about how specific people are not suspects, that means nothing.

All indications from the McCanns' behavior over the past few months are that they are very nervous -- more nervous than they've ever been. It seems Tony Bennett is much more convinced it's a whitewash than the McCanns are!

Maybe I am too much of an optimist but I tend to agree. SY said the parents were not suspects - they may not have been at that time so it's not a lie, IMO it's about being pragmatic and not causing an unnecessary frenzy which would make their job difficult. The burglars and others have always been 'one line of enquiry'. Abduction became something that 'may not follow with all our thinking' - implying that at least some of their theories are not about abduction, which only really leaves the possibility that M was killed in the short time between checks.

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Let's give SY some help.

Post by PeterMac on 22.05.14 15:21

Just to refresh their memories, now that they are going to be entering a substantial phase of activity - as opposed to the previous substantial phase of total inactivity
The dismissal of Tannerman has been acclaimed as opening the “Window of Opportunity” for an abduction.   It seems to be suggested that the previous 3 minutes has somehow been expanded to an hour and a half.
But does it ?

21:06 Gerry checks the children
21:12 / 15   He then stands outside
21:13 / 16   He returns to the Tapas
21:25 After starters MO and RJO go to back to their apartments via the car park entrance.    They go first to 5D, where RJO’s daughter Evie is heard crying.  RJO enters flat, whilst MO checks inside 5B, then returns to 5D
21:30 RJO remains in 5D as daugher has vomited. MO goes to check on 5A via the patio gate entrance, enters, sees twins breathing . . .


It takes 1 minute to walk from the Tapas to the bottom of the stair at 5A.
1 minute to go from there to the front door of 5A / 5D / 5B  via the car park.
1 minute, at least for both to enter 5D to tend to the crying child
1 minute to go to 5B and check child
30 seconds to return to 5D
one minute to go to the bottom of the stairs 5A
30 second to enter 5A
30 seconds to stand in the apartment and “see the twins breathing”
15 seconds to exit
One minute to return to the Tapas

total a little under 8 minutes.
In fact they allow 10 minutes

But TWO men walked across the car park, and the shutters were obviously closed.
One man walked back across the car park - ditto
Same man entered apartment 5A - ditto -  no slamming doors or whooshing curtains

At that point everything was OK
And it is now . . .    21:35

21:40  JT (again) goes to 5D. so she crosses car park at 2142 - shutters and window obviously OK,  and no other activity, no cars moving around, no people lurking  - nothing.
21:45  RJO returns to table, so he again crossed the car park at 21:43.
21:55 Kate raises alarm (according to the TWO handwritten timelines - this was then (criminally ?) altered on typed one to 2200)
So Kate must have left the table at  21:50 to get to 5A, enter, check, hear slamming doors, and whooshing curtains, hurtle around, checking all rooms cupboards etc and get back to the Tapas by 21:55

So the new window of opportunity is

around 5 minutes - as an absolute maximum

In this time the intruder has to
• Enter the apartment
• Sedate all three children - in the dark
• Select Madeleine as the victim - in the dark
• Open the shutters and window - if he used the front door to enter
• Pick Madeleine out of her bed - in the dark
• Exit the apartment, either through the opened window and shutters, or
through the front door,

BUT In addition the sedation used must now be almost instantaneous, so that by the time Kate reaches the twins within 4 or 5 minutes they are already deeply unconscious, and will not rouse until 10 hours later, without after effects.  This substance must also be undetectable even by a trained anaesthetist (or two, in fact)

There is no substance which can do this.

Well done Redwood.  Bit by bit the net is closing.

And now we apparently have to add
• Walk round the block and down the road so as to be seen by the Smiths
AND THEN retrace his steps and dig a grave in the middle of a car park, in solid limestone, bury her, and cover his tracks before the alarm is raised and the search begins.
Excellent work.

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Re: Madeleine McCann search to enter 'substantial phase' of activity

Post by Cristobell on 22.05.14 15:27

If a whitewash were underway, wouldn't the McCanns have to know about it?  Given the frequency of their TV appearances and interviews, they could at any moment drop themselves and SY in it.  

From the look of their troubled faces, I don't think they know any more about what is going on in the investigation than we do. Imo, if they were kept fully updated they would not have had to ask for the dig to be postponed so they could celebrate Madeleine's birthday.

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