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Kate McCann launches New Campaign

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Re: Kate McCann launches New Campaign

Post by Tony Bennett on 21.05.14 13:25

@endgame wrote:
Andrew77R wrote:Slightly off topic.

A work associate of mine has recently shown a non MSM view on this case after discussing it over a few beers a while back. He follows this forum and has done for a while after i told him about it, although he has told me he has not joined. Yet.

Anyway, was on the phone to him earlier about something else and we got briefly chatting again about this case and his question was...

'Why is that Tony Bennett on a one man mission to convince everyone that this will be a whitewash?'.

I couldn't really answer that.

Hoping you could Tony... 

Hope you don't take this post as offensive or anything as certainly not meant to be.

Was just a genuine question which i could not answer.
I think that's quite easy to answer. As far as I read Tony he only looks at what has actually happened, what has actually been said, what has actually been done. He doesn't engage in large amounts of speculation, hypothesis, conspiracy generation and wishful thinking. When you look at Operation Grange in the cold hard light of day, it has no resemblance at all to a genuine, mainstream police investigation. It's a perfectly reasonable conclusion on that basis to assume that something else is going on. Other interpretations have to assume that what we see on the surface is a front designed to disguise what is really happening behind the scenes. You take your choice!
Thank you very much, 'endgame'.

I have indeed tried to evidence my 'whitewash' opinion, whereas IMO those who say it is not a whitewash base their views on hope and wishful thinking, not evidence. 

I would only add that I am far from alone in my views.

On this very forum, the forum-owner herself ran a poll on Operation Grange, asking the simple question: 'Justice or Whitewash?'

I think it has been the most popular poll ever on the forum, and out of nearly 200 people who have voted, 44% say 'whitewash':

https://jillhavern.forumotion.net/t8309-justice-or-whitewash?highlight=justice

Then of course there are a large number of professional people and the general public of Portugal who also consider that the pretentious and hubristic Operation Grange is a farce and a whitewash.

In think 'endgame' hit the nail powerfully, fairly and squarely on its head when he asked whether Operation Grange 'has any resemblance at all to a genuine, mainstream police investigation'.

Maybe, Andrew77R, you could ask your friend the same question?

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Re: Kate McCann launches New Campaign

Post by Woofer on 21.05.14 13:31

Tony has also helped other people who failed to get justice because of police corruption so he has first hand experience of how police chiefs can manoeuvre truth.  I assume Tony is coming from the perspective of `they cannot always be trusted` BUT we all hope there are some `gooduns` in the police and that they are part of Grange. 

Anyhow no one can blame Tony for thinking it`s a whitewash - it certainly looks that way on the surface.  It seems to me that the more positive posters latch on to small bits of hope, analysing everything AR says, hoping he will use a word or sentence that could mean things aren`t a whitewash.  On my more positive days I do too.  But seeing KM`s promotion to superior ranks year after year tells me everything is going to plan for the Mcs.

Unless, of course, like the media often do - they love raising people high on a pedestal only to knock them off it.  But not sure the police are that way inclined.

PS just seen TBs answer.  He`ll correct me if I`m wrong.
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Re: Kate McCann launches New Campaign

Post by tiny on 21.05.14 13:40

@1soapy wrote:I've never been to this other website, and not everyone here agrees with TBs views, but from hearing HERE some comments about it, could the answer be (to Tiny's question), that there could be another view/explanation there, even if it is not widely shared here? I don't think we need fear other views or conclude motives based on such, if indeed such were being considered. As PM alluded to, people can make their own minds up and take different views on board and weigh them up. No point asking the PM if the Tory's are any good, is it?

ah and there was me thinking Angusallen was a wind-up thinking
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Re: Kate McCann launches New Campaign

Post by jeanmonroe on 21.05.14 14:03

Q: Did Coral Jones, hinder, lie to, jeopardise, was uncooperative* with, (* unhelpful, awkward, disobliging, unaccommodating, unamenable, unreasonable, unwilling, recalcitrant, perverse, contrary, stubborn, wilful, stiff-necked, unyielding, unbending, inflexible, unadaptable, immovable, obstructive, difficult, obstreperous, troublesome, tiresome, disobedient;) the police investigation into  the 'disappearance' of her missing daughter, April?

A: A RESOUNDING, NO.

Q: Did Kate McCann, hinder, lie to, jeopardise, was uncooperative* with, ( * unhelpful, awkward, disobliging, unaccommodating, unamenable, unreasonable, unwilling, recalcitrant, perverse, contrary, stubborn, wilful, stiff-necked, unyielding, unbending, inflexible, unadaptable, immovable, obstructive, difficult, obstreperous, troublesome, tiresome, disobedient ) the police investigation into the 'disappearance' of her missing daughter, Madeleine?

A: A RESOUNDING, YES!

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Re: Kate McCann launches New Campaign

Post by jeanmonroe on 21.05.14 14:55

THANKS to:
http://frommybigdesk.blogspot.co.uk/2014/05/kate-mccann-and-new-child-rescue-alert.html

Wednesday, 21 May 2014

Kate McCann and the new Child Rescue Alert system: an alert would not have been triggered for Madeleine under this system

Coral Jones, mother of murdered April Jones, and Mrs McCann, mother of missing Madeleine, unveiled a digital billboard at King’s Cross station in London promoting an enhanced Child Rescue Alerts system to inform the public about missing children whose lives are considered at risk.

The scheme will use social media including text messages, email and digital billboards across the UK in addition to traditional broadcast media to issue the alerts when it is launched on Sunday, International Missing Children’s Day.

(WalesOnline May 20th 2014)

The Child Rescue Alerts System, which has been introduced in the UK recently, is based of the French Alerte Enlèvement system, which has been in operation across the EU for a number of years. The UK is one of the last of the member states to introduce this system for missing children.

I think Kate McCann is showing her usual arrogance in appearing in public to promote this alert system after attempting to replace it in 2008 when she and Gerry went to Strasbourg to sponsor the American Amber Alert system at a time when the French system was already being tried out in several EU states.

An alert system had been active in some member states of the EU for some time when the McCanns went to Strasbourg. In fact, Portugal was the second country after Hungary, to introduce an alert system in 2002, in accordance with an EU directive.

In June 2008, the McCanns went to Strasbourg to gather support for a Europe-wide system, based on the American Amber Alert. They presented a written declaration to the Commission, but this was not their own work, rather it had been drawn up by Edward McMillan-Scott, then Vice-President of the European Parliament, but presented by the media-savvy, media magnets, the McCanns.

The McCanns had simply tried to hijack an initiative that had already been working its way through the European Parliament for some time, turn it into something else and claim it as their own.

In December 2006, an extraordinary meeting of the member states approved an initiative of the European Commission to reserve certain numbers (Starting with 116 ) for a Europe-wide alert system for missing children. This was the system which had been in operation in France since 2006 and had proved to be effective in several cases.

Since 2006, the French system, known as "Alerte Enlèvement," which is the system now introduced across most of the EU territory and finally in the UK, has recovered many missing children through rapid response to reported cases of abduction. The success of the system, according to Rachida Dati, former French Justice Minister, is due to there being very strict criteria for launching an alert. Four criteria must be met.

1) It must be a confirmed abduction and not just a disappearance, however worrying.

2) The victim's life or physical safety must be at risk.

3) The Public Prosecutor must be in possession of sufficient information which, if broadcast, would help to locate the child or the suspect.

4) The victim must be a minor.

Would an alert have been triggered when Madeleine McCann disappeared?

1) A confirmed abduction? No. All that was known was that Madeleine had been reported by her parents as having been in bed when they left the apartment to go to the Tapas Bar and that when Kate McCann went to check on the children at 10pm, Madeleine wasn't in her bed. In spite of what was stated to friends and relations of the McCanns by telephone in the early hours of May 4th, 2007, there was no evidence of a break-in at the apartment: the shutters had not been "jemmied," and no trace of an abductor was found in the apartment. Apart from the above, we have Jane Tanner's statement about having seen a man she originally described as "carrying a bundle that could have been a child," which gradually developed into a man carrying a child who was definitely Madeleine McCann.

So, NO, criterion number one  was not met.

2) Was Madeleine's life or physical safety at risk? Well, she wasn't tucked up safely in her bed and she was not hiding in the apartment or anywhere in the vicinity. She was a missing three-year-old, so a child at risk since it was not and still is not known what had happened to her.

3) Was there sufficient information that would have helped locate Madeleine or the suspect? The question is, what kind of information would have helped? The first and most important piece of information would perhaps have been a description of a suspect, but Jane Tanner's description of "an egg with hair," would not have been very helpful! Secondly, the description of a vehicle that could possibly have been used by a suspect. None. So, based on a vague description of "an egg with hair," there would have been insufficient evidence, which if broadcast would have helped recover Madeleine or find a suspect.

Number 3 not met.

4) The victim must be a minor. Yes.

As for little April Jones, an alert would probably have been triggered in her case. Several of April's friends reported having seen her getting into a white van. So, there would have been sufficient information, which if broadcast may have helped the police recover April, or at least discover her whereabouts. Madeleine McCann's disappearance is very different in many ways to that of April Jones. There are no independent witnesses outside the McCanns circle of friends who can state that Madeleine had been in bed when she vanished into thin air, but April was seen outside her home by many of her friends. April's case was an obvious abduction: Madeleine's disappearance was not. Even Andy Redwood, who is leading the team of British police officers investigating Madeleine's disappearance in Portugal, has stated recently that there is a chance that Madeleine may not have left the apartment alive. Is he suggesting that an intruder took away a dead child or is he suggesting something else?

So, here we have Kate McCann appearing in public to promote a missing child alert system that she tried to replace with the American Amber Alert system, under the strict criteria of which, an alert would not have been triggered for Madeleine. That woman has some Chutzpah! But that's nothing new as far as Kate and Gerry McCann are concerned! They admit to having left three children under the age of 4 in an unlocked apartment in a foreign country while they wined and dined with their mates and have been behaving like celebrity victims ever since, courting publicity at every opportunity. That's amazing Chutzpah in my book!

(I would have added the picture, with this piece, but i can't stand that 'constantly grinning', KM!)

eta: 3) The Public Prosecutor must be in possession of sufficient information which, if broadcast, would help to locate the child or the suspect.
-----------------------

So something like a 'last' photo, say taken a few hours, before the child went 'missing' especially if that 'last' photo was, say, in the camera, belonging to the mother, of the 'missing' child.

THAT would 'help' the Public Prosecutor, enormously, wouldn't it?

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Re: Kate McCann launches New Campaign

Post by galena on 21.05.14 16:05

@PeterMac wrote:
Andrew77R wrote:... his question was...
'Why is that Tony Bennett on a one man mission to convince everyone that this will be a whitewash?'.
I couldn't really answer that.
Hoping you could Tony... 
Hope you don't take this post as offensive or anything as certainly not meant to be.
Was just a genuine question which i could not answer.

Whatever TB's reply, it is never bad to have a devil's advocate, forcing everyone else to think, to search for evidence to back up their position,
to challenge, with reasons, everything which is said
rather as we have done with the McCanns statements, changes of statement, lies, falsifications, prevarications, and everything else they have done and said over the last 7 years.

If TB states that he believes Grange to be a whitewash, then it is up to everyone else to provide evidence that it isn't. (or MAY not be !)

My view is clear.
I don't know.
I agree with the point in bold  - I sometimes miss the days when we had 'pros' on Mccann discussions because this forced people to re-examine their arguments and not fall into complacent thinking.  Personally I started out thinking quite positively, this took a dive after Crimewatch, started to think maybe Redwood had something up his sleeve after all, tend to go back and forward like that. But somewhere at the back of my head a small rational voice says - Redwood said that the parents were not be considered as suspects  - a bluff to fool the McCanns or a simple statement as to the mandate he had been given when investigating the case?  ...

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Re: Kate McCann launches New Campaign

Post by j.rob on 21.05.14 16:08

No Fate Worse Than De'Ath wrote:Tasprin, the family link was mentioned early on but then disappeared so maybe it was found to be incorrect. If I recall correctly, the mother of two of Bridger's children wasn't April's father's sister, but the sister of the mother of two of April's father's other children.

It sounds like one of those ending up as your own grandpa scenarios!

Quite possibly, if the details are correct, April might have regarded Bridger as her uncle though he was no relation to her.
How interesting. So two of April's father's other children were by the sister of the mother of two of Bridger's children. So a 'non-blood relation' Uncle, then? 

So Bridger murdered the child of the sister of the mother of two of his children?

Still, as Kate writes on page 398 of her book: the majority of completed child abductions are parental/family abductions with 16 per cent involving abduction by a stranger.

I hadn't read much about this case. But reading about gives a chilling insight into what happened and how Bridger got caught.

http://www.theguardian.com/uk/2013/may/30/april-jones-murder-final-hours

Account of how one of Bridger's son's was practically killed by him, leaving him with lifelong scars.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/son-april-jones-murderer-mark-2291945

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Re: Kate McCann launches New Campaign

Post by Guest on 21.05.14 16:14

That is what early reports said about the complicated family relationships but I do wonder if they were correct because they were never repeated (as far as I know) at the time of Bridger's trial.

I don't think that there can be any doubt though that he was known to the family as two of his children lived near April and were apparently playing with her before her disappearance.
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Re: Kate McCann launches New Campaign

Post by tasprin on 21.05.14 16:22

Trying to remain optimistic but fast losing hope now:. They do appear to be all in it together. Really does remind me of Belle Famille by Arthur Dreyfus.

GOV.UK
News story
Sign up to Child Rescue Alert text scheme, Home Secretary urges
Organisation: Home Office
Page history: Published 21 May 2014
Topic: Crime and policing
Minister: The Rt Hon Theresa May MP



The new Child Rescue Alert text message scheme sends out appeals quickly when a child goes missing.The Home Secretary is urging people to sign up for the Child Rescue Alert. The Home Secretary has urged people to get behind a new text message service that will send out information appeals as soon as a child is reported missing. Speaking at a special event at the House of Lords ahead of International Missing Children’s Day, Theresa May gave her support to the Child Rescue Alert Service and welcomed the upcoming launch of the UK’s first purpose-built website providing information on dealing with child abduction - the Child Abduction Hub. The event was organised by the charities Missing People and Parents and Abducted Children Together (PACT), who are behind the new initiatives.

Child Rescue Alert

The enhanced Child Rescue Alert system will issue alerts via email and text message when a child has disappeared and their life is at risk. The system is the responsibility of the National Crime Agency (NCA), in partnership with Missing People and technology company Groupcall Limited.
Sign up to receive Child Rescue Alerts.

Child Abduction Hub

The Child Abduction Hub, produced by the PACT and supported by the NCA, is a new online source of information and advice on all types of child abduction.
Home Secretary Theresa May said:  These initiatives will offer vital support and protection for missing children and their families. When a child goes missing, it is crucial that as many people as possible are looking for them. The Child Rescue Alert will spread appeals quickly and widely, via text messages and digital billboards, increasing the likelihood of a child being found. I would urge everyone to sign up to this scheme. The Child Abduction Hub will be a key source of information on all types of child abduction – whether it’s committed by a parent, a family friend or a stranger. This will help parents, teachers, and other professionals make common-sense, well informed decisions on how to keep children safe. The launch of these new tools support the wider work the government is doing to improve the response to missing people reports and put in place better protection for children vulnerable to going missing, or being taken. In March, the Home Office provided £220,000 worth of funding to Missing People to help them run their telephone helpline and support services.

Read the facts on Child Abduction.

Government strategy

The Government’s Missing Children and Adults Strategy highlights the importance of this issue and provides a core framework for local areas to consider if they can, and should, do more to help these vulnerable people. Children are particularly at risk of harm and exploitation whilst missing and in 2012 the government created a dedicated response to such cases through the Child Exploitation and Online Protection (CEOP) Command. This is ready to respond to any complex or high profile case, be that in the UK or abroad. The government has also set out statutory guidance for local authorities and their partners, setting out the steps they should take to prevent children from going missing and providing support if they do. This includes making sure every child who goes missing from home or care will now have the chance to talk to an independent person about why they ran away. The House of Lords event was also attended by Kate McCann, mother of missing Madeleine, and Coral and Paul Jones, parents of April Jones, who also called for people to sign up to the Child Rescue Alert System. This will go live on International Missing Children’s day on Sunday 25 May
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/sign-up-to-child-rescue-alert-text-scheme-home-secretary-urges

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Re: Kate McCann launches New Campaign

Post by j.rob on 21.05.14 16:29

I wonder if these two children were the boy and the girl seen in his van the day before?

The only police officer on duty in the town, Fiona Evans, reached the estate at 7.37pm and spoke immediately to April's seven-year-old friend, who gave a hugely impressive account of what had happened. She reported that April had got into what she thought was a grey van.
Crucially, the girl also told the officer that the brother and sister of another friend may have been in the vehicle the day before. She named the friend and the fact was recorded in the storm report – the police's running record of the investigation – at 8.27pm. It turned out to be vital.
The brother and sister referred to were two of Bridger's children, but his complicated family life meant it took hours for officers to work out the links.

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Re: Kate McCann launches New Campaign

Post by j.rob on 21.05.14 16:32

I'm certainly not losing hope. Sometimes there is method in what looks like madness.

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Re: Kate McCann launches New Campaign

Post by tasprin on 21.05.14 16:35

Hope you're right j.rob.


It's obvious why they enlisted Coral Jones.

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Re: Kate McCann launches New Campaign

Post by j.rob on 21.05.14 16:38

Just think - there only needs to be ONE CRUCIAL sighting to catch the person/s responsible. Had April's friend not seen her get into the van or even if she had not seen her friend in the same van the day before, it is possible he might not have been caught, despite his appalling history of abuse and perversion.




She named the friend and the fact was recorded in the storm report – the police's running record of the investigation – at 8.27pm. It turned out to be vital.

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Re: Kate McCann launches New Campaign

Post by jeanmonroe on 21.05.14 17:17



"The Home Secretary meets Theresa May and Coral Jones at launch of HER 'child rescue alerts' campaign"

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Re: Kate McCann launches New Campaign

Post by Guest on 21.05.14 17:17

@Tony Bennett wrote:Thank you very much, 'endgame'.

I have indeed tried to evidence my 'whitewash' opinion, whereas IMO those who say it is not a whitewash base their views on hope and wishful thinking, not evidence. 

I would only add that I am far from alone in my views.

On this very forum, the forum-owner herself ran a poll on Operation Grange, asking the simple question: 'Justice or Whitewash?'

I think it has been the most popular poll ever on the forum, and out of nearly 200 people who have voted, 44% say 'whitewash':

https://jillhavern.forumotion.net/t8309-justice-or-whitewash?highlight=justice

Then of course there are a large number of professional people and the general public of Portugal who also consider that the pretentious and hubristic Operation Grange is a farce and a whitewash.

In think 'endgame' hit the nail powerfully, fairly and squarely on its head when he asked whether Operation Grange 'has any resemblance at all to a genuine, mainstream police investigation'.

Maybe, Andrew77R, you could ask your friend the same question?
Thank you for your response Tony.

No need to ask him the question on whether it will be a whitewash or not. 

The question was about why your so convinced it is/will be and why you want other people to seemingly believe your views. 

You have answered and i appreciate that.
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Re: Kate McCann launches New Campaign

Post by j.rob on 21.05.14 17:25

Anyone good at complicated family trees? 

I might be barking up the wrong tree here. But given that it is a statistical fact that the majority of cases of missing/abducted/murdered children involve family members or people that the child knows, it is interesting to examine April's family background.

Is it correct that April's father had a relationship with a woman whose sister had happened to have, at some stage, a relationship with Bridgers? And that both these relationships had produced two children? So that would mean that two of April's half-siblings are biological cousins of two of Bridger's children?  

If this is the case, then Bridger is a non-biological Uncle of April?

Before I confuse myself further, will post a link I have just found which I am sure will explain it:


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/9600265/The-tangled-family-ties-between-Mark-Bridger-and-April-Jones.html

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Re: Kate McCann launches New Campaign

Post by Guest on 21.05.14 17:28

That does agree with my understanding of the relationships within the Jones and Bridger families.

So yes, Bridger is the uncle of April's half-siblings and, though no relation to her at all, it's possible that she might have thought of him as an uncle.
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Re: Kate McCann launches New Campaign

Post by Cristobell on 21.05.14 17:44

@Tony Bennett wrote:
The National Crime Agency - a national policing body above the Metropolitan Police, and which incorporates the former Child Exploitation and Online Protection Agency (CEOP) - has joined with the mother of murdered April Jones and mother of abducted Madeleine McCann in a nationwide, high profile campaign.

To promote an enhanced Child Rescue Alert system.

With the respected Missing People charity. 

With a target of one million signatures.

To all those who still think that Operation Grange will end up with any conclusion other than: 'Madeleine was taken by a wicked abductor'...

Do you still think so?
I am sorry that Coral Jones has been dragged into this mire, bless her.

As for Operation Grange ending with a declaration that it was an abductor wot dunnit - that is looking less and less likely.  In 7 years dozens, if not hundreds, of detectives have been unable to come up with a single believable abduction scenario or a patsy dead or alive to fit up.  Indeed, the standard of the abductors put forward has reached an all time low with this week's one, a 77 year old who holidays in Thailand.   

It appears to me that nobody is looking for an abductor anymore, they are looking for a body.

Mean't to add that the speech by Theresa May is heartening, I have a feeling that any police corruption will be flushed out on her watch.

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Re: Kate McCann launches New Campaign

Post by Watching on 21.05.14 17:48

IIRC  it was reported at the time that little April had been on day trips away with Bridger and other children, presumably his own.  He was very well known to her mum and dad, and known obviously to April, she would not have hesitated in going off in his car with him.  She knew him, she knew his vehicle.  Like many children they are harmed by those close to them.  

Maddie?

Watching: I have removed the previous posts that you copied as the relationship between Bridger and the Jones family was not as stated there. NFWTD.

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Re: Kate McCann launches New Campaign

Post by Cristobell on 21.05.14 18:07

@kevmack wrote:
@Tony Bennett wrote:
@kevmack wrote:
Well I suppose we will have to wait and see, but I'm not ready to admit defeat yet and if Grange is a whitewash as you believe, then lets face it, we'd all do well to just pack up and forget about it all, because no amount of us writing here on this forum or elsewhere will ever change the result...
What?!*!??*@??

'Admit defeat'?

The people who perished at Hillsborough in 1988 and their surviving relatives were victims of a cover-up.

The senior police invovled repeatedly lied through their teeth.

The current Director of Public Prosecutions, Alison Saunders, blocked a second inquest when she was a lawyer for the Attorney-General.

Did the victims' families give up?

Did they 'admit defeat'?

NO.

They persisted, and patiently and intelligently went on campaigning.

Until they got a result.
I don't think you can compare this case to Hillsborough Tony, 96 people died and their families and friends fought for years for the truth to come out.  If Grange is a whitewash then as we already know Madeleine's parents are not going to fight for her, are they.  At the end of the day, we on this forum and elsewhere have no clout whatsoever to press the investigation for answers, apart from our own desire for justice for a child we didn't know and have relation to, so I think your comparison is a bit insulting tbh

But I think we should just agree to differ at this point as we are clearly not going to agree on this issue.
Just one point Kev, I think we do have an influence.  The government and the police have media monitoring units, they use social media to gauge public opinion. Scotland Yard are fully aware that this is a prominent anti McCann forum, that is widely read.  All the work and research on here will not go away, and its all available to anyone who googles 'McCann'.  If SY are planning a whitewash, it would be nice to think we among many thorns in its side.

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Re: Kate McCann launches New Campaign

Post by Watching on 21.05.14 18:24

@Watching wrote:IIRC  it was reported at the time that little April had been on day trips away with Bridger and other children, presumably his own.  He was very well known to her mum and dad, and known obviously to April, she would not have hesitated in going off in his car with him.  She knew him, she knew his vehicle.  Like many children they are harmed by those close to them.  

Maddie?

Watching: I have removed the previous posts that you copied as the relationship between Bridger and the Jones family was not as stated there. NFWTD.

Thanks   


The posts I responded to were on page 9 of thread NFWTD - just in case you need to remove them from there also, and not just the original postings.

Cheers

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Re: Kate McCann launches New Campaign

Post by Guest on 21.05.14 18:26

I'll leave the original ones there as they were pointed out to be inaccurate straight away.

Candyfloss, if you disagree, I won't get upset!
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Re: Kate McCann launches New Campaign

Post by Watching on 21.05.14 18:37

No Fate Worse Than De'Ath wrote:I'll leave the original ones there as they were pointed out to be inaccurate straight away.

Candyfloss, if you disagree, I won't get upset!
  No probs!

Cheers

Watching

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Re: Kate McCann launches New Campaign

Post by Guest on 21.05.14 18:37

No Fate: apologies for posting inaccurate information about the family relationships of April Jones.
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Re: Kate McCann launches New Campaign

Post by Guest on 21.05.14 18:44

@Watching wrote:
No Fate Worse Than De'Ath wrote:I'll leave the original ones there as they were pointed out to be inaccurate straight away.

Candyfloss, if you disagree, I won't get upset!
  No probs!

Cheers

No worries NFWTD, you're in charge  big grin 
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