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Kate's Mates

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Re: Kate's Mates

Post by ultimaThule on 07.07.14 15:46

candyfloss wrote:
BlackCatBoogie wrote:
@j.rob wrote:It just doesn't really look like a wedding, IMO. Given that It is a white wedding, judging by Kate's dress, you would expect the one photo chosen for the book to be some kind of 'line up' photo... May be a few with family or best man. They look as though they found themselves transposed into a local dinner/dance in aid of some charity. Or perhaps the annual dinner of some committee/organisation.
What about it being a communion photo? Of that baby perhaps? Or of KH or GM - do adults do communion?

The younger KH and friend in the photos a few pages back have got veils on and it is titled communion - could it be a RC religious ceremony that they were in or attending. 

Sorry don't mean to sound so blase - I have no idea what RC do or celebrate.

All in my own opinion.


Probably a fancy dress party  big grin

Gerry went as a caber tosser and Kate was bridezilla?

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Re: Kate's Mates

Post by Guest on 07.07.14 15:46

BlackCatBoogie wrote:
@j.rob wrote:It just doesn't really look like a wedding, IMO. Given that It is a white wedding, judging by Kate's dress, you would expect the one photo chosen for the book to be some kind of 'line up' photo... May be a few with family or best man. They look as though they found themselves transposed into a local dinner/dance in aid of some charity. Or perhaps the annual dinner of some committee/organisation.
What about it being a communion photo? Of that baby perhaps? Or of KH or GM - do adults do communion?

The younger KH and friend in the photos a few pages back have got veils and white dresses on like bridesmaids -and it is titled communion - aren't they supposed to be brides of christ or summat daft like that.  Could it be a RC religious ceremony that they were in or attending? 

Sorry don't mean to sound so blase - I have no idea what RC do or celebrate.

All in my own opinion.

KH and friend would have been celebrating their First Holy Communion, an important day for a Roman Catholic, which usually happens at the age of seven.

The First Communion, or First Holy Communion, is a ceremony of mostly the Latin Rite of the Catholic Church. It is the colloquial name for a person's first reception of the sacrament of the Holy Eucharist, and in Roman Catholic churches occurs typically at age seven or eight depending on national custom. Catholics believe this event to be very important, as the Eucharist occupies a central role in Catholic theology and practise
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Re: Kate's Mates

Post by Guest on 07.07.14 16:02

Ladyinred wrote:
BlackCatBoogie wrote:
@j.rob wrote:It just doesn't really look like a wedding, IMO. Given that It is a white wedding, judging by Kate's dress, you would expect the one photo chosen for the book to be some kind of 'line up' photo... May be a few with family or best man. They look as though they found themselves transposed into a local dinner/dance in aid of some charity. Or perhaps the annual dinner of some committee/organisation.
What about it being a communion photo? Of that baby perhaps? Or of KH or GM - do adults do communion?

The younger KH and friend in the photos a few pages back have got veils and white dresses on like bridesmaids -and it is titled communion - aren't they supposed to be brides of christ or summat daft like that.  Could it be a RC religious ceremony that they were in or attending? 

Sorry don't mean to sound so blase - I have no idea what RC do or celebrate.

All in my own opinion.

KH and friend would have been celebrating their First Holy Communion, an important day for a Roman Catholic, which usually happens at the age of seven.

The First Communion, or First Holy Communion, is a ceremony of mostly the Latin Rite of the Catholic Church. It is the colloquial name for a person's first reception of the sacrament of the Holy Eucharist, and in Roman Catholic churches occurs typically at age seven or eight depending on national custom. Catholics believe this event to be very important, as the Eucharist occupies a central role in Catholic theology and practise
Thank you Ladyinred - whilst I tend to agree with UT's line of thinking about the use of the caber  big grin do you know of any RC ceremonies whereby KH would dress in white with veil - I take it the photograph of her as a young girl is her First Holy Communion, so it couldn't be that. Just wondering if that wasn't a wedding at all - but some sort of religious ceremony/celebration.
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Re: Kate's Mates

Post by Guest on 07.07.14 16:06

It's their wedding day, IMO.  I was raised as Roman Catholic and cannot think of any other ceremony where an adult would wear a veil.
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Re: Kate's Mates

Post by Guest on 07.07.14 16:17

Ladyinred wrote:It's their wedding day, IMO.  I was raised as Roman Catholic and cannot think of any other ceremony where an adult would wear a veil.
Thanks Ladyinred, I won't pursue that one then, great when someone has personal knowlege
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Re: Kate's Mates

Post by anneboleyn on 07.07.14 17:23

I think this is a genuine picture of the McCann's wedding day. The typical waitress outfit and the tired/bored  child with their head on the table in the background gives me this impression. However the venue looks a bit 'cheap', it reminds me of the groom doing his best in that programme Don't tell the Bride and some times failing miserably. 

Although I don't imagine it was Kate's dream venue, with her being such a try hard, I do think Kate's dress wasn't cheap purely because of it's simplicity.

Regarding Gerry's kilt a Scottish friend of mine married his English wife in England and he and his ushers and best man all wore kilts. It was in November so they must have had some parts that were freezing big grin

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Re: Kate's Mates

Post by ultimaThule on 07.07.14 17:47

It wouldn't be Kate's style to have used a photo of the happy couple with their immediate rellies in her bewk because it's all about her and the wee one.
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Re: Kate's Mates

Post by j.rob on 07.07.14 18:29

I agree about the holy communion thing. The Godmother would not dress like that, as dat as I am aware. But I think it is odd to wear a black bow tie with traditional Scottish (wedding?) attire? that's why I find this photo confusing. On the one hand, the way they are holding the baby gives an impression of a christening. On the other hand, kate is wearing a bridal dress and veil is it looks like her wedding day. And yet against Gerry's upper body looks a bit as though he is at a black-tie dinner. It sends out confusing messages.

I am probably back in that crocodile swamp, but is there something odd about the juxtaposition of Kate and Gerry's bodies? Her shoulder kind of disappears behind him. 

If they were the staunch Catholics that Kate would have us believe there is no way that there would not be some more 'formal' type photos taken at their wedding. Even if there was no official photographer but just a friend taking them.

I wonder........ Only four sentences about their wedding in Kate's book??? Weird. No mention of the best man or details....even if just to say they wanted a very simple ceremony without any fuss....then why not just say that??

Even a very simple wedding requires a degree of planning. And at a traditional ( catholic) wedding it would be unusual for the bride not to be 'given away'.

Hmm....I wonder how many friends and family shared in this  happy occasion? Or indeed if it even happened in the sense of Kate being a blushing bride in white?

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Re: Kate's Mates

Post by Snifferdog on 07.07.14 18:34

There is another ritual to go through after communion, and that is confirmation, which happens at age 12 to 13. I know this to be so as an ex Catholic. I had to wear a white gown and veil. In order for one to be married in the catholic church one has to be confirmed. I doubt whether Kate would dress as a bride if she was only confirmed at a later age. So either a fancy dress, or it is a genuine photo of their nuptials.
Eta. There seems to be something odd about most of the photos they have released into the public domain. The less personal info out there according to the McCanns the better seems to be the case imo, hence all the odd looking photos. Confusion being good according to GM.

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Re: Kate's Mates

Post by MissesWillYa on 07.07.14 18:40

@Snifferdog wrote:There is another ritual to go through after communion, and that is confirmation, which happens at age 12 to 13. I know this to be so as an ex Catholic. I had to wear a white gown and veil. In order for one to be married in the catholic church one has to be confirmed. I doubt whether Kate would dress as a bride if she was only confirmed at a later age. So either a fancy dress, or it is a genuine photo of their nuptials.

You don't have to have made any of the Catholic sacraments to get married in the church if you have a dispensation. My husband was not brought up a Catholic and made none of the sacraments. But my parents felt it was important for me to be married in the church because they'd raised me in it. It was very easy. We wrote a letter to the archdiocese, wrote a check for the asked-for amount, and a dispensation was issued.
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Re: Kate's Mates

Post by Snifferdog on 07.07.14 18:47

Hi MissesWillYa, true, but if you are brought up a catholic you yourself has to have been confirmed, regardless as to whether ones husband is catholic or not. Otherwise ones husband has to be a confirmed catholic.
Eta. Same situation as you...my husband was not brought up a catholic, but we got married in the catholic church to please my parents...onky difference being that we did not have to ask for special permission as you did.

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Re: Kate's Mates

Post by MissesWillYa on 07.07.14 18:53

@Snifferdog wrote:Hi MissesWillYa, true, but if you are brought up a catholic you yourself has to have been confirmed, regardless as to whether ones husband is catholic or not. Otherwise ones husband has to be a confirmed catholic.
Eta. Same situation as you...my husband was not brought up a catholic, but we got married in the catholic church to please my parents...onky difference being that we did not have to ask for special permission as you did.

Right, one member of the couple needs to have been confirmed. But not both, and I have no idea the status of either Kate or Gerry's sacrament history. It could well be that only one of them has all the required notches in the belt, so to speak.

I think it might depend on the priest, as to whether you need the dispensation. My sister married a non-Catholic, in the same parish where I got married, but had a different priest officiating and they were not required to jump through the same hoops we were.

Wasn't the priest who married K&G their good friend Father Paul Seddon? Maybe the expensive golf clubs did a lot of talking for them.
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Re: Kate's Mates

Post by Miraflores on 07.07.14 19:13

Same for me - my husband was the Catholic at the time, and we got married in a Catholic Church to please his mother, but we didn't need a dispensation. The rules had obviously been relaxed some time in the previous few years, because my husband's sister was mightily annoyed that 'we had got away with it' when she had to jump through hoops, and in fact, her then husband to be converted. (I never did, and my husband then lapsed, but that's a different story.)

I would imagine that Gerry as well as Kate would have made his first Communion. It was very much a mechanical process, according to my husband. They used to be prepared in a batch at school and then be 'done' at around Easter. I believe this has now changed and even Catholic schools don't prepare children automatically, and the children have to go to communion preparation classes at the church, but that might just be how it's done locally. More staunchly Catholic areas, like Glasgow and Liverpool, might still do things the old way.
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Re: Kate's Mates

Post by Snifferdog on 07.07.14 19:17

Yes MissesWillYa, Paul Seddon does seem to feature a lot. Golf clubs or...something else in common.

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Re: Kate's Mates

Post by Gaggzy on 07.07.14 19:18

@aquila wrote:
candyfloss wrote:
@aquila wrote:
@missbeetle wrote:" />

He looks rapt here.

They both do.
I've never seen a bride wearing a watch on their wedding day.

Really?  I wore mine, although it was a bit daintier then that one  big grin   Ah so that is why they are always late at the church  big grin 
too funny.
It's obvious why she wore a watch - so she could get the timeline straight without having to use the cover of a child's colouring book.

9:10 - Gerry done his first check on the Priest. He was fast asleep. He stared wistfully at him, thinking how lucky he was to have such a sweet and adorable Priest.

9: 15 - Jane goes to check on the bridesmaids and sees a man walking away from the church carrying something in his arms wearing pink pyjamas - oh no, has the Priest been abducted by a predatory vicar?

9:35 - Matt agreed to do a check for us but only listened at the Vestry door.

10:00 - I entered the Vestry to check on the Priest and I'm shocked to find the stained glass window has been jemmied ... and the Priest is there finishing his milk and cookies.
'I'll be with you shortly, Ms Healey-McCann,' he said.

10:02 - I burst into the reception shouting, 'He's taken them, he's taken them!'
'Taken what?' they asked.
'The cookies!' I shrieked. 'He's taken all of Madeleine's cookies, the swine,' I cried.

 whacky
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Honeymoon, McCann style...

Post by missbeetle on 07.07.14 20:43


(pictures snipped from Kate's bewk)

Thank you, ladies, for your sharp-eyed comments and insights into Catholic wedding preparations.

Above are photographs allegedly taken on Kate and Gerry's honeymoon abroad.

Kate's hair is yellow-blonde as opposed to her wedding mousy colour.

I would date the clothes they are wearing as early to mid 1990s, the sunglasses and the blue dress in particular.
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Re: Kate's Mates

Post by petunia on 07.07.14 21:19

@ultimaThule wrote:
@missbeetle wrote:"

What first struck me when I saw this photograph again?

Kate is wearing only one chain, one pendant.

What a meek and sexless grey hoodie she's wearing.

Her neck muscles are a story unto themselves...

It looks to me as if the wee one found time to apply a fresh coat of boot black to his hair prior to making his debut on the world stage, missbeetle.  

This was the performance on 4 May 2007 which convinced me that this couple were complicit in the disappearance of their daughter and I've seen no reason to alter my opinion during the intervening years.
What first struck me is the fantastic suntans they have.

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More weddings...

Post by missbeetle on 07.07.14 23:24


I wonder if these pictures were taken on the same wedding holiday, given that baby Madeleine looks to be six months old.

Some observations of the left hand side picture -

Kate looks like she is smoking that wine glass.

The ground either side of the two women doesn't seem contiguous.

Kate is casually dressed for the white, veiled wedding of her dear friend.

Kate's waist and hips are much broader than on the right.

The fellow in black tie looks like he is wringing a kidney - surely you'd clip him out? Is he one of the Tapas munchers?

Who is Nipper?

Perhaps he is the dog in the background of the right hand picture.
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More wedding oddities...

Post by missbeetle on 08.07.14 0:00




Kate appears to be wearing a piece of flesh-coloured sticking plaster under her necklace, to the side of her neck.

"

To the left, fake tan patchy almost to the point of vitiligo.

Fiona's right eye in this photograph looks to have been pasted on...
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More oddities...

Post by missbeetle on 08.07.14 0:22

" "

Close up, Kates' teeth and right middle finger take on a life of their own...

" "


Madeleine's eyes and nose look pasted on, the piece above the eyebrows noticeably. 

Kate's throat looks like it's been grafted onto her neck.
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Re: Kate's Mates

Post by Sonmi-451 on 08.07.14 2:10

Hi MissBeetle,

I've commented a few times before on photos as it's an area in which I have some relevant knowledge so think I can chip in, (n.b. I work with digital photography, tinkering and changing images, etc.).  The gist of my contributions are that I don't see any McCann photos showing evidence of malicious manipulation. The way digital cameras process images is partly to 'join the dots', (or, more specifically the pixels) and to an extent 'guess' what the image is meant to be as it is being processed and stored to the SD card/chip. Digital cameras are sometimes quite clever things and clicking the shutter button can/will (depending on the settings used) result in numerous algorithms being run to (try and) optimise the image. Whereas this means that great photos can be created be amateurs time after time, without having to alter lenses and settings, it does mean that there can often be seemingly odd patterns of tone, seemingly disjointed lines, etc.  On top of this is that (almost) every time a photo is scanned, reproduced, pasted, emailed, etc. the file size will be compressed which effectively means that more and more 'guesswork' has occurred in order to reduce the file size further... thus exacerbating any imperceptible flaws in how the image may have originally been processed, or creating new flaws.

Add to that the fact that a person interacting in a quite normal social way, if caught at the wrong split-second, can look quite odd....and if that image is shown to someone and they're told the photo is of a nasty person, then they may well 'see' the person as looking malevolent and not benign. This is because when taken out of context, and especially when viewed with one's subconscious preconception, we as viewers simply project all manner of meaning and emotion onto those who were photographed; emotions that would not have been at all evident (or expressed) in the room at the time. For example: I still laugh when I recall a pair of photos in my very first copy of Private Eye that I purchased many, many, years ago... I recall it reproduced two images from a single edition of a newspaper, maybe the Daily Telegraph, which showed a photo of some England Goalie with his hands in the air with the caption on the front page of "So-and-so punches the air in despair as Team X equalise in extra time"... and the same paper had the same photo on its back-page captioned "So-and-so punches the air in delight after he saved a penalty in the first 5 minutes".... Anyway, as usual I digress!.

I suspect that if I took the next 95 photos sent to me by customers for tinkering with, (Oooh I'm sooo tempted to do so as an experiment!!), and also if I could somehow discover 5 TM photos that hadn't been circulated....and then blanked out everyone's faces... and then shuffled them all up... and gave out red pens... I am confident that everyone would spot and circle a wealth of 'misplaced limbs', 'apparent photo-shopping', 'shadow anomalies' and various other edits.  I'm equally confident that TM photos would not deviate as having any more, nor any less, anomalies than the norm.  Furthermore if I took a random set of photos from any family, handed them out and said that the family indulged in Crimes X & Y and had divorced some months after the photos were taken then lots of suitable interpretations would be forthcoming... such as "Look how she's holding that bag she'd hiding something" or "Look how he's standing away from her" ... Whereas the very same set of photos given to someone else with an alternative cover story that the family were voted "The Most Fun Family in the UK" would undoubtedly be interpreted in an entirely polarised manner, (I think the bias is called 'Confirmation Bias'... n.b. Wikipedia lists lots of fascinating cognitive biases that we Humans all succumb to. You can find the entry by searching for "List of Cognitive Biases")

I know that some worthy contributors to this forum will not agree with me and my comments. I may of course be wrong and TM may indeed have amended/tinkered with images for dishonest means, but I'm saying that in my (professional) opinion I've not seen any evidence of things that cannot be fully explained by normal, unintentional, image processing/enhancement.  Note: I DO think that reviewing all the images is a worthwhile area as regards confirming the context of timelines, etc. (e.g. Where MBM may have been/may not have been and how the released photos agree or conflict with any official narrative)

So, I have a question: What is the motive for TM in significantly amending, or even 'creating', images of long-past events such as weddings, christenings, confirmations, etc.?, and then releasing these into the public domain where any evidence of image adulteration would be there for ever for criminal investigators to forensically study if necessary?
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Re: Kate's Mates

Post by lj on 08.07.14 2:39

Without any expertise I wonder too if these photos are altered and why this all would have been done. Sorry missbeetle you completely lost me here.

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Alterations of Kate...

Post by missbeetle on 08.07.14 3:02



Rectangular patch across the forehead. Given that Kate is young, female and Catholic, I doubt it would be to cover up a zabiba.

Chinese headache plaster, perhaps?

" "

Magnified to 400, schoolgirl Kate has a squared-off corner to the left of her mouth...

...and what appears to be a bionic left eye.


As to the McCann mob's motives for fiddling about with photographs - who knows?
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Re: Kate's Mates

Post by Sonmi-451 on 08.07.14 3:53

Hi MissBeetle,
Good to see we agree neither of us can think of a motive for such suggested manipulations.

I can't see anything untoward with the images you've posted above. Indeed, I really do not wish to be rude, but I fear I must say that on my screen the 'rectangular plaster' seems to be a perceptual/optical illusion caused by KH's hair and I'm afraid I have never seen a bionic eye, (I didn't think Science had made them yet), so do not know what you mean by saying her left eye looks like one. Have you any comments on the points I made about common issues with images, or of how the Human brain can be a rather biased interpreter of photos? If not then I'm sorry to have troubled you; but if so, then it'll hopefully be useful to discuss the topic further to help our collective (mine as well!) analytical toolset.
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Those carefree days in Devon...

Post by missbeetle on 17.07.14 20:57


(undated photograph snipped from Kate's book)

I spy, with my little eye...

A manly, strong, assertive Gerry presenting us with his bridal trophy...

...and a blue sports bag...?

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