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Man held over Claudia Lawrence case

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Re: Man held over Claudia Lawrence case

Post by ChippyM on 13.05.14 19:27

I wonder how he was linked to the case. Did police do a large scale DNA collection of everyone she knew / worked with?

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Re: Man held over Claudia Lawrence case

Post by PeterMac on 13.05.14 19:42

@ChippyM wrote:I wonder how he was linked to the case. Did police do a large scale DNA collection of everyone she knew / worked with?

That technique has been used before, and the killer was discovered when one of his mates "boasted' in the pub that he had given a sample on behalf of the killer
It got reported, and he got life. (The name was that of a bird, Nightingale, Blackbird or something - remind me, someone.)

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Re: Man held over Claudia Lawrence case

Post by aiyoyo on 13.05.14 20:57

@PeterMac wrote:
@ChippyM wrote:I wonder how he was linked to the case. Did police do a large scale DNA collection of everyone she knew / worked with?

That technique has been used before, and the killer was discovered when one of his mates "boasted' in the pub that he had given a sample on behalf of the killer
It got reported, and he got life.   (The name was that of a bird, Nightingale, Blackbird or something - remind me, someone.)

Barker, Colin Pitchfork ?

First man in UK convicted using DNA profiling evidence.
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Re: Man held over Claudia Lawrence case

Post by ChippyM on 13.05.14 21:41

It was Colin Pitchfork, I just looked it up on wiki, he paid someone £200 to give DNA on his behalf but a woman overheard and dobbed him in.
   He was a truly sick individual, reading about it made me feel quite unnerved, ugh!

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Re: Man held over Claudia Lawrence case

Post by notlongnow on 13.05.14 21:45

@aiyoyo wrote:
@PeterMac wrote:
@ChippyM wrote:I wonder how he was linked to the case. Did police do a large scale DNA collection of everyone she knew / worked with?

That technique has been used before, and the killer was discovered when one of his mates "boasted' in the pub that he had given a sample on behalf of the killer
It got reported, and he got life.   (The name was that of a bird, Nightingale, Blackbird or something - remind me, someone.)

Barker, Colin Pitchfork ?

First man in UK convicted using DNA profiling evidence.
Wasn't he from Leicester?

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Re: Man held over Claudia Lawrence case

Post by PeterMac on 13.05.14 22:53

Pitchfork.
Exactly. Thank you.
(I knew it was the name of a bird ! !)

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Re: Man held over Claudia Lawrence case

Post by ultimaThule on 14.05.14 0:54

@notlongnow wrote:
@aiyoyo wrote:
@PeterMac wrote:
@ChippyM wrote:I wonder how he was linked to the case. Did police do a large scale DNA collection of everyone she knew / worked with?

That technique has been used before, and the killer was discovered when one of his mates "boasted' in the pub that he had given a sample on behalf of the killer
It got reported, and he got life.   (The name was that of a bird, Nightingale, Blackbird or something - remind me, someone.)

Barker, Colin Pitchfork ?

First man in UK convicted using DNA profiling evidence.
Wasn't he from Leicester?

Double child killer Colin Pitchfork, the first murderer to be convicted on DNA evidence, who will be eligible for parole in 2016 was indeed from Leicester, nln.

PeterM's mention of Pitchfork has reminded me of the case of another double child killer who was handed a more fitting sentence for his crimes and, due to the rapid pace at which forensic science is advancing, it's probable that Burgess will now die in prison as is no more than he deserves: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-berkshire-16077901
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Re: Man held over Claudia Lawrence case

Post by Silver Shuffle on 14.05.14 8:23

Just for Info, abrilliant book I read years ago "The Blooding" I'm sure was about the Pitchfork case!

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Re: Man held over Claudia Lawrence case

Post by sofieellis on 14.05.14 12:01


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Re: Man held over Claudia Lawrence case

Post by sofieellis on 14.05.14 15:30

Once again, South Yorkshire dogs are being used. Hmm, wonder what the Mcs will make of that.

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Re: Man held over Claudia Lawrence case

Post by Guest on 14.05.14 15:34

@sofieellis wrote:Once again, South Yorkshire dogs are being used. Hmm, wonder what the Mcs will make of that.
Probably not a lot.

The dogs did there job extremely well back in 2007 as we all know.

Yet they still got away with it.
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Re: Man held over Claudia Lawrence case

Post by PeterMac on 14.05.14 15:56

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2628019/Police-start-digging-garden-Claudia-Lawrence-murder-suspect-two-years-searched-property.html

Police dig patio of man arrested over Claudia Lawrence murder as forensics and sniffer dogs are brought in - two years after they first searched his home and garden
Claudia Lawrence, 35, went missing 5 years ago and has never been found
Mental health worker Michael Snelling, 59, in custody and vehicle seized
Police put up tent over patio and also spending second day in property
Snelling's property is less than half a mile from Claudia Lawrence's house
Detectives searched home and dug in garden in 2011 but did not arrest him
Friends say he'd known chef from university and gave her lifts to work
Police with sniffer dogs are searching his mother's house in North Shields

Picture of Notoriously Unreliable dog. ( and an Alien !)

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MAN RELEASED ON POLICE BAIL

Post by PeterMac on 14.05.14 16:21

SKY

The man arrested has just been released on Police Bail.

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Re: Man held over Claudia Lawrence case

Post by sofieellis on 14.05.14 16:34

Sky News Newsdesk ‏

[ltr]@SkyNewsBreak[/ltr]

  8m
Sky sources: 59-year-old Michael Snelling, who was arrested on suspicion of murdering Claudia Lawrence, will be released on bail shortly

Sky news just said enquiries continue. I'm confused by this. Why would they release him, if they haven't finished these inquiries?

ETA: and where would he be released to, if his homes are still being searched?

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Re: Man held over Claudia Lawrence case

Post by PeterMac on 14.05.14 17:09

@sofieellis wrote:Sky news just said enquiries continue. I'm confused by this. Why would they release him, if they haven't finished these inquiries?[/font][/color][/size]
ETA: and where would he be released to, if his homes are still being searched?

Because the Police only have 24 hours, and they need to finish the dogs and other searches, and all the forensics on anything they may find before they speak to him again.

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Re: Man held over Claudia Lawrence case

Post by sofieellis on 14.05.14 17:22

ah, ok. Thanks, Peter.

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Re: Man held over Claudia Lawrence case

Post by ChippyM on 14.05.14 18:05

They searched his house in 2011 and didn't find anything. Could they have been developing a case all that time, thinking he was their man but waiting for solid forensic evidence?

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Re: Man held over Claudia Lawrence case

Post by tasprin on 14.05.14 18:11

Also, They did say they wouldn't be ruling out arrests of others.

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Re: Man held over Claudia Lawrence case

Post by Guest on 14.05.14 18:29

@PeterMac wrote:
@sofieellis wrote:Sky news just said enquiries continue. I'm confused by this. Why would they release him, if they haven't finished these inquiries?[/font][/color][/size]
ETA: and where would he be released to, if his homes are still being searched?

Because the Police only have 24 hours, and they need to finish the dogs and other searches, and all the forensics on anything they may find before they speak to him again.



PM I am hoping you could explain something of police procedure to me. Is it correct that when someone is arrested they can be questioned freely, but once charged questioning restrictions come into being, somehow it changes the state of play (for want of a better word!).

Also another of the (numerous) things I don't understand is why sometimes a suspect can be held for an extended time. Sometimes a suspect is out on bail quite quickly yet other times they continue to be held for further days.

I hope it is OK to ask such questions, please excuse my ignorance - I don't know a better person to ask though.
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Re: Man held over Claudia Lawrence case

Post by Tony Bennett on 14.05.14 20:22

daffodil wrote:
@PeterMac wrote:
@sofieellis wrote:Sky news just said enquiries continue. I'm confused by this. Why would they release him, if they haven't finished these inquiries?[/font][/color][/size]
ETA: and where would he be released to, if his homes are still being searched?

Because the Police only have 24 hours, and they need to finish the dogs and other searches, and all the forensics on anything they may find before they speak to him again.
PM I am hoping you could explain something of police procedure to me.  Is it correct that when someone is arrested they can be questioned freely, but once charged questioning restrictions come into being, somehow it changes the state of play (for want of a better word!).

Also another of the (numerous) things I don't understand is why sometimes a suspect can be held for an extended time.   Sometimes a suspect is out on bail quite quickly yet other times they continue to be held for further days.

I hope it is OK to ask such questions, please excuse my ignorance  -  I don't know a better person to ask though.    
daffodil,

Sorry I'm not PeterMac, but seeing your questions here, I thought I would venture an answer.

One of the great things to bear in mind about British (or strictly speaking I should say English and Welsh) law is the principle of 'habeas corpus', Latin for 'I have a body'.

It is all about the sacred principle in our law of the state not holding anyone for more than a limited amount of time unless they are properly charged with a criminal offence.

If someone is suspected of committing a crimimal offence, the police may either invite someone in for a voluntary interview, or simply go ahead and arrest someone. The latter will be used e.g. when an element of surprise is necessary.

On arrest, you must be informed what you are suspected of having done, and must be given a warning: "You do not have to say anything when questioned, but if you do..."

Generally speaking, the police have the power to hold someone in custody for no more than 24 hours after arrest. After that, the rules are very strict. The police must either CHARGE you with a criminal office, or RELEASE you.

In answer to your question, YES, once you are charged, the police's right to question you further on the matter ceases. The police have to prove their case on the evidence they have, or on any other evidence they can acquire but WITHOUT re-questioning the suspect.  

You may however be released ON BAIL. This means that the police have suspicions about you, and want to continue their enquiries, and may want to interview you again, usually this is in another 6 weeks. Bail may be extended for further 6-week periods, but usually no longer than a year in total.

If you are arrested for a more serious offence, e.g. robbery, rape or murder (not sure of the exact categories), you can be held for up to 96 hours, but the police have to keep applying to a Magistrate for extensions, every 24 hours I think.

In the most serious cases, e.g. terrorism, the 24 hour period can be extended to 7 days.

Once charged, you may be released ON BAIL (less serious cases) on condition of course that you attend any court hearings.

In more serious cases, you wil be REMANDED IN CUSTODY.

I would like to add one other point aboiut jury trial.

Since the PENN case in the 18th century, juries are acknowledged to have the right to acquit someone who is obviously guilty of breaking the law.

This is a guarantee against the state passing bad laws.

In the PENN case, the accused was charged with a serious offence, i.e. holding a religious meeting or service without being licensed.

The jury refused tro convict him, and the judge was so outraged that he sent them back to the cells to reconsider their 'not guilty' verdict, including committing the entire jury to the cells for the night, ordering them to be fed only bread and water.

After three days, the jury refused to change their verdict. The judge had no alternative but to release PENN from custody.

A plaque marking this event is non the first floor of the Old Bailey.

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Re: Man held over Claudia Lawrence case

Post by ultimaThule on 14.05.14 21:15

This guide sets it out, daffodil https://www.gov.uk/arrested-your-rights

In order for the police to be able to detain Michael Snelling, they first had to arrest him 'on suspicion of' committing an offence (or offences) which, in this case, has not been specified in any press report I've read to date.

The police could have applied to detain Mr Snelling for up to 96 hours before being required to charge him and the fact that he's been released on police bail* indicates that he's not been formally charged with committing any offence otherwise he would be required to make an appearance in court and enter a plea of guilty or not guilty.  

The speed with which Mr Snelling has been released suggests that the police did not find what they were looking for and, further, that they didn't believe they'd be able to come up with sufficient evidence to substantiate charging him within the proscribed period of 96 hours.  

It's probable that Mr Snelling will find that life as he knew it will not be the same following his arrest and brief detention in connection with the disappearance of Claudia Lawrence, and imo those who are arrested 'on suspicion of'' serious offences should remain anonymous unless and until charges are preferred.

*Mr Snelling's bail has been described in the press as being 'conditional' and any such conditions may simply be limited to the date on which he is required to re-attend at the police station and/or may or may not determine where he is allowed to reside in the interim, or whether he is prohibited from associating with certain people and frequenting certain places etc.
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Re: Man held over Claudia Lawrence case

Post by ChippyM on 15.05.14 10:00

Various friends and family now saying they've got the wrong man and that he's a really nice bloke. Surely they had good reason to do all these searches, possibly the new evidence that they found in the victims home?

"
A source told The Sun: 'He also said he thought Mick gave Claudia lifts to work. They both worked at the university and Claudia's car was in a terrible state — it just wouldn't go'.
The friend added that police became interested in Snelling 'a few weeks ago' and approached drinkers from Nag's Head asking what they knew about him and his relationship with Claudia.
But he was praised as a caring and dutiful son. Mr Snelling regularly made the 160-mile round trip to visit his 84-year-old widowed mother, who has recently moved to a care home suffering from dementia.

 

Cousin Gordon Kewley, of North Shields, Tyneside, said police were ‘barking up the wrong tree’.

He added: ‘He is the best of sons. I was shocked when I found out, I couldn’t believe it. He is a lovely bloke and an academic who used to work at the university.’

Mr Snelling was a lab technician in the biology department at York University when Miss Lawrence vanished and became a project co-ordinator for the mental health charity Mind after he was made redundant.
He is said to have been a constant comfort to his mother Dorothy as the family have been hit by a series of tragedies.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2628019/Police-start-digging-garden-Claudia-Lawrence-murder-suspect-two-years-searched-property.html#ixzz31lzJRr5s   "

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Arrest of Michael Snelling

Post by Guest on 20.05.14 10:19

Thank you Tony and UT both for kindly answering my questions.
I now have a much clearer understanding of the Police process, though still surprised that Michael Snelling was arrested and publicly named yet released so quickly.
Similarities to Jo Yeates murder enquiry and the very public arrest of Christopher Jefferies - who I believe was still on bail even after Tabak was charged with her murder.

My apologies for this overdue 'thank you', the tardiness a result of domestic electrical and telephone line problems - quite out of my control.
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Re: Man held over Claudia Lawrence case

Post by Guest on 20.05.14 10:55

@ChippyM wrote:
A source told The Sun: 'He also said he thought Mick gave Claudia lifts to work. They both worked at the university and Claudia's car was in a terrible state — it just wouldn't go'.

I fear that the moral of this story is, never offer assistance to anybody, anywhere under any circumstances. Especially if they're a woman.
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Re: Man held over Claudia Lawrence case

Post by Guest on 20.05.14 11:02

If that's the only evidence against him, the words straws and clutching come to mind.

It is a problem now - sometimes you want to be helpful, especially if a child appears to be lost - but actions can often end up being misinterpreted.
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