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The Complete Mystery of Madeleine McCann™
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Post by joyce1938 12.05.14 15:34

if my memory  is serving me right , I believe I have read of Mr Amaral that before he was sent off to Faro to work suddenly ,he had made plans and the smiths were coming back to give information on what they had observed. It was stopped by the man that took over.  I think that watching how some people move and hold head etc ,is good indication ,if familier with them . Like mr smith was certain it was not r murat he saw that night,if he knew him from various holidays ,he may have a very good idea if it was murat or not . Then when he saw gm coming down steps of plane ,he also observed his gait too,and felt he was who the family had seen that night.I would be surprised if he wasn't telling what he felt was the case,he didn't say definatly ,but he felt it was so. joyce1938
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Post by Markus 2 12.05.14 15:39

quote A simple search will reveal that Martin Smith is reported in the Daily Mirror claiming the Portugese authorities never took him seriously..

If PJ were trying to nail the Mcanns then why not  take it seriously..




would have done their case a whole lot of good
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Post by Newintown 12.05.14 15:44

joyce1938 wrote:if my memory  is serving me right , I believe I have read of Mr Amaral that before he was sent off to Faro to work suddenly ,he had made plans and the smiths were coming back to give information on what they had observed. It was stopped by the man that took over.  I think that watching how some people move and hold head etc ,is good indication ,if familier with them . Like mr smith was certain it was not r murat he saw that night,if he knew him from various holidays ,he may have a very good idea if it was murat or not . Then when he saw gm coming down steps of plane ,he also observed his gait too,and felt he was who the family had seen that night.I would be surprised if he wasn't telling what he felt was the case,he didn't say definatly ,but he felt it was so. joyce1938

I used to work with a set of twins who were almost identical, but because I knew them so well I could tell which one was which from the back because of their hair, their build and the way they held themselves.  Even our boss couldn't tell the difference, no doubt because he had only seen them from the front standing together most of the time.

Murat had a different hair style to GM and a different body build, he also wore glasses I believe as his eyesight was so bad.

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Post by joyce1938 12.05.14 15:45

r amaral took the smiths serious enough to arrange to have them go over and stay overnight ,which was cancelled as soon as the new person took over the case.not certain mr Amaral would have endorsed them ,but he never got the chance ,and then neither did they,seems unfair their name has been connected  ever since ,pity they were not given chance to be heard . joyce1938
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Post by Newintown 12.05.14 15:47

Markus 2 wrote:quote A simple search will reveal that Martin Smith is reported in the Daily Mirror claiming the Portugese authorities never took him seriously..

If PJ were trying to nail the Mcanns then why not  take it seriously..




would have done their case a whole lot of good

Don't believe everything you read in the Daily Mirror.  If you read the post above yours you will see that GA was going to ask the Smiths to come back to Portugal for requestioning but he was taken off the case before he could carry it through.

That is quoted in GA's book, so it isn't "make believe".

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Post by Markus 2 12.05.14 15:53

quote; which was cancelled as soon as the new person took over

So was this new person protecting the Mcanns and Smiths are legit round in circles ,who is he
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Post by Cristobell 12.05.14 15:54

Markus 2 wrote:A simple search will reveal that Martin Smith is reported in the Daily Mirror claiming the Portugese authorities never took him seriously..

If PJ were trying to nail the Mcanns then why not  take it seriously..

would have done their case a whole lot of good
Goncalo Amaral was preparing to fly Martin Smith and several of his family members back to Portugal in September 2007, before he was removed from the case.  In October 2013, SY reached the same point in the investigation as Goncalo, that is Smithman was back in the spotlight.  Where Smithman disappeared to during the remaining months of the original investigation, we don't know, as the original investigation came to a halt when the McCanns and their friends refused to return to Portugal for a reconstruction.  

Both the Portuguese and the British have now done reconstructions, albeit none of the original cast members took part.  SY have brought Smithman back in October 2013, so it would appear that both investigations have gone way past the point where the first investigation was scuppered.  

I did hear a voice recording of Martin Smith a while ago, but I cannot remember where I came across it, it may even have been car radio.  If anyone knows where recording is, it is well worth listening to.  smilie  He sounded like a genuine, honest guy - entirely different to all the other people I have heard speak on this subject.
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Post by russiandoll 12.05.14 15:55

Ask yourself, who benefits from the divide and rule stuff regarding  SY and PJ being at odds over the investigation?

 One simple answer, so I do not believe that any police force is leaking like a sieve to the press.

PR pure and simples imo.

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Post by Guest 12.05.14 15:58

To me the Smith's seem a fairly normal, fairly honest family. (not that i know them in any way)

IIRC they have not really muttered a word since Kennedy popped over to see them all lawyered up.

Bribed, threatened, intimidated???

Strange one that..
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Post by Cristobell 12.05.14 15:59

stillsloppingout wrote:I think the fact that they were paid a visit to by kennedy and his lawyers also speaks volumes ? .
Have they been ALSO IMO paid off ,like the nannies
I don't think they would have been paid off, but I do wonder if they were 'leaned' on.
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Post by Cristobell 12.05.14 16:00

Andrew77R wrote:To me the Smith's seem a fairly normal, fairly honest family. (not that i know them in any way)

IIRC they have not really muttered a word since Kennedy popped over to see them all lawyered up.

Bribed, threatened, intimidated???

Strange one that..
I've just written similar  smilie and I think your assessment of the situation sounds plausible.
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Post by Newintown 12.05.14 16:01

Andrew77R wrote:To me the Smith's seem a fairly normal, fairly honest family. (not that i know them in any way)

IIRC they have not really muttered a word since Kennedy popped over to see them all lawyered up.

Bribed, threatened, intimidated???

Strange one that..

If the McCanns ever end up in a court of law let's hope that Kennedy is with them (along with many others).

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Post by Markus 2 12.05.14 16:04

Cristobell wrote:
stillsloppingout wrote:I think the fact that they were paid a visit to by kennedy and his lawyers also speaks volumes ? .
Have they been ALSO IMO paid off ,like the nannies
I don't think they would have been paid off, but I do wonder if they were 'leaned' on.
YEP AND BACK TO THIS



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 "Digging" with a helicopter (continued from 'digging at resort') - Page 17 Empty  Garrincha Today at 14:10
Re the Smiths: someone I know well in Ireland told me a lot of Irish people frequent PDL, and the word among them is: don’t get involved in this case because pressure will be brought to bear if you do
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Post by Guest 12.05.14 16:05

This seems to have turned into yet another Smith thread. So as to find things easily and keep things on topic perhaps the discussion could continue here.......

https://jillhavern.forumotion.net/t8419-where-could-smith-man-have-been-heading-or-was-there-ever-a-smith-man?highlight=smith

I may try and move posts later but it is rather a difficult job...
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Post by Guest 12.05.14 16:10

candyfloss wrote:This seems to have turned into yet another Smith thread.  So as to find things easily and keep things on topic perhaps the discussion could continue here.......

https://jillhavern.forumotion.net/t8419-where-could-smith-man-have-been-heading-or-was-there-ever-a-smith-man?highlight=smith

I may try and move posts later but it is rather a difficult job...
Maybe a new thread on Smith CF, if makes thing's easier for you....
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Post by Cristobell 12.05.14 16:28

Newintown wrote:
joyce1938 wrote:if my memory  is serving me right , I believe I have read of Mr Amaral that before he was sent off to Faro to work suddenly ,he had made plans and the smiths were coming back to give information on what they had observed. It was stopped by the man that took over.  I think that watching how some people move and hold head etc ,is good indication ,if familier with them . Like mr smith was certain it was not r murat he saw that night,if he knew him from various holidays ,he may have a very good idea if it was murat or not . Then when he saw gm coming down steps of plane ,he also observed his gait too,and felt he was who the family had seen that night.I would be surprised if he wasn't telling what he felt was the case,he didn't say definatly ,but he felt it was so. joyce1938

I used to work with a set of twins who were almost identical, but because I knew them so well I could tell which one was which from the back because of their hair, their build and the way they held themselves.  Even our boss couldn't tell the difference, no doubt because he had only seen them from the front standing together most of the time.

Murat had a different hair style to GM and a different body build, he also wore glasses I believe as his eyesight was so bad.
The Smith's description of the man seen carrying the child is so similar to Gerry it is uncanny, late 30's, athletic build, short neat hair, then when the efits emerged, he even had the same face (depending on the angle).    

What would be the odds of the 'abductor' looking exactly like the father of the child who was abducted?  Looking at the area and the demographics, I would say pretty slim.  The other men in the Tapas group, could have fitted the description, as they too are sporty late 30's, short haired, but the efit faces look nothing like them.  And none of the previous suspects look like him either.  

In my opinion the chances of Gerry having an doppelganger of himself in a small village in Portugal are extremely remote.  Add to that, the idea that this identical Gerry also happens to be a predatory child snatcher wandering around PDL at the same time as himself, and we are in the realms of cuckoo land. Maybe the 5000 people who phoned in after Crimewatch pointed that out.
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Post by Guest 12.05.14 17:36

Back briefly.
I cannot for the life of me understand, why someone quoting tabloids to make his/her point is allowed to continue to do so.
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Post by Cristobell 12.05.14 17:47

This is a very interesting link regarding the proposed dig.  It is the statement of Mark Harrison the British Search expert brought in to survey the area and to identify possible burial sites.  It might give us a clue as to what is going on now.  Mark Harrison is the police expert who recommended that the cadaver and blood dogs be brought in to search the McCanns apartment and surrounding areas.  

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MARK_HARRISON.htm
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Post by Woofer 12.05.14 17:54

Markus 2 wrote:quote; which was cancelled as soon as the new person took over

So was this new person protecting the Mcanns and Smiths are legit round in circles ,who is he

The new person, Paulo Rebelo, took over - and probably did as he was told.
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Post by Shhh 12.05.14 18:06

Mr smith. Knew it wasn't Murat becAuse he would have instantly recognised him.  You don't have to see a face to recognise someone you know.

As for SY leaking to clarry.  No way.  It's obvious dirty tricks & spin IMHOIMHO
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Post by Guest 12.05.14 18:19

Châtelaine wrote:Back briefly.
I cannot for the life of me understand, why someone quoting tabloids to make his/her point is allowed to continue to do so.

You have a pm Chatelaine. Hope you decide to stay with us.  roses 
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Post by plebgate 12.05.14 20:42

Andrew77R wrote:Put yourself in Mr Smith's shoes.

Your out having a lovely evening with your family. Few drinks, bite to eat etc. All good fun.

You come out of a bar and notice a guy walking down the street with a small child in his arms. Nothing unusual about that. You make a passing comment but it's ignored. Again nothing unusual about that.

You quickly forget about it.

Next day you hear about an abduction. Small girl goes missing. Suddenly PDL turns into a circus that has never been seen before. Police and Press everywhere. Searches being carried out etc etc.

You start to recall that YES we did see that person the night before carrying a child. Surely it was a holidaymaker though. No abductor would be silly enough to walk along the streets. They would be in a car and off... would they not?

The Media is going crazy. You start to see pictures of the 'distraught' parents being broadcasted around the world. Gerry giving his statements etc. The whole world 'believes' straight away that YES, this is an abduction.

You recognise Gerry. Hey that looks a bit like that guy we saw. Don't be silly it can't be. Yeah of course not. Silly me. 


The media intrusion is getting ridiculous and you want to get the hell of there and get home. 

In the back of your mind, you have niggling doubts that Gerry could be said abductor. Should we say something? Well lets wait, as i'm sure other people must of seen the same person too. Lets see if they come forward too. We don't really want the police coming here and we don't really want to get involved in this.

Nobody has come forward about that man we saw. The media are saying this is the man (Tannerman). Well that's certainly not who we saw is it.

Must of been an innocent holidaymaker then after all. Good job we didn't go to the police. Would of wasted there time.

Some time later. 

Hey, just seen the father again on the news. The way he was carrying his other child then. Wow that does look really like that guy we saw doesn't it. Not certain but maybe 60-80% sure. What do you think.. Yeah it does. Do you think we should say something.

Yes i think we should now. That expat bloke i've met a few times. Robert. Looks like they are saying he could be the abductor. No way was it him that we saw was it.

Let me call them and tell them what we saw. We should of done this ages ago.............


ETA - i don't think a whole family, especially children, would lie to the police.
Why would anybody not want to get involved and go to the police if they thought they had info. which would possibly help the investigation into the disappearance of a child.    

How does that work then -  hmmm possibly, Sorry officer,   my son can describe a man's trousers and I can tell you who it isn't but  thought I wouldn't bother you with these details because there was a media circus outside and I didn't want to get involved?

Edited to change wording second para.




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Post by plebgate 12.05.14 20:49

Newintown wrote:No doubt, this is why the Smith family didn't want to come forward in the first place, they did not want get involved in the "McCanns' media circus" and who could blame them.

Now that that the whole family are being called liars on a public forum must be excruciating for themselves, their family, friends, neighbours, and work colleagues.   Who would want to come forward to be a witness to any crime if they will be vilified and called "liars" on a public forum in the future.

If I remember correctly when TB was in court, didn't the Judge mention something along the lines of what would happen in the future if the McCanns were found to have not been telling the truth with regard to the disappearance of Madeleine.  I can't remember the exact words but he was not obviously convinced that the McCanns were off the hook 100%.
Who is calling the family liars?    All I have seen in TBs posts is an either or situation.  

I may have missed one of TBs posts but if anyone can show me one where he specifically calls them liars then I would be interested to see it.
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Post by PeterMac 12.05.14 20:56

I have no idea what they were doing,
EXCEPT that whatever it was it was NOT looking at an old car park next to the Smith Sighting.
A helicopter takes off from somewhere and gains height and circles and swoops, and then pretends to look at a particular area, and then goes home.
On a predetermined flight path ! !

Whatever it was doing, it was NOT looking at an old car park.

The Men in Black could have done that between coffee and sardines.
A fingertip search, - using the sardine skewers to avoid soiling their fingers, of course.
Se você não pode cutucar o chão com um espeto de sardinhas que você não pode cavar uma sepultura
"If you can't prod the ground with a sardine skewer you can't dig a grave",  (Old Portuguese Proverb  ca. 2014)


So what were the doing ?
To what did the Ministry of Defence agree ?
To what did the Minstry of the Interior agree ?
To what did the Ministry of Police agree ?
To what did the CPS and their Lusitanian counterparts agree ?
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Post by Guest 12.05.14 20:59

Peter, I'm with you all the while.
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