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Maddie McCann's parents: ''We won't apply for death certificate and still hold out hope 7 years on"

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Maddie McCann's parents: ''We won't apply for death certificate and still hold out hope 7 years on"

Post by Gillyspot on 25.04.14 23:59

Kate and Gerry McCann are so encouraged by Scotland Yard’s fresh leads that they will not seek for a Certificate of Presumed Death





Still hopeful: Kate and Gerry McCann


Madeleine McCann’s parents have chosen not to apply for a death certificate – despite being entitled to one on the seventh anniversary of [url=http://www.mirror.co.uk/all-about/madeleine mccann]her disappearance[/url] next weekend.
Kate and Gerry McCann are so encouraged by Scotland Yard’s fresh leads into her disappearance that they will not seek for a Certificate of Presumed Death which applies after that period.
And they are so convinced Madeleine is still alive they are instead stepping up their efforts to find their daughter.
Her gran Susan Healy told the Mirror yesterday: “She could be found.”
And Kate herself has previously said: “Madeleine is still alive until someone proves otherwise.”
A person can legally be declared dead after seven years under British law despite the absence of direct proof of the victim’s death. But friends of the couple, from Rothley, Leics, said that was the “last thing on their minds” as they prepare for next Saturday’s grim milestone.
Their hopes of finding Madeleine, who would now be 10, have been boosted in recent months by the progress of a British police probe.
Scotland Yard [url=http://www.mirror.co.uk/all-about/scotland yard]detectives [/url]are believed to be poised for a breakthrough after their own three-year review that sparked a fresh investigation.
New evidence has come to light of a sex attack on a British girl of 10 in Praia da Luz two years before Madeleine disappeared there. It is one of five new Algarve assaults uncovered by senior British detectives.
Madeleine vanished from her parents’ holiday apartment in the Portuguese resort on May 03, 2007, just nine days short of her fourth birthday.


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Madeleine McCann
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Despite no confirmed sightings of the youngster since that fateful night, Kate and Gerry cling to the hope she will be found alive.
Former GP Kate has said: “There is nothing to suggest Madeleine is not alive. We have to keep looking for her.
“We still have real hope. We all know cases of missing children, presumed dead and found alive years, sometimes decades, later.”
Kate has told how she had been “buoyed” by the efforts of Met Police and “relieved” the case had been reopened in Portugal.
Family spokesman Clarence Mitchell said last night: “Kate and Gerry are fully aware of the declaration of death. They still believe Madeleine is alive and are not applying for a certificate presuming she is dead. That is the last thing on their minds.”
The Presumption of Death Act, due to be reformed in October following a campaign, is based on a seven-year rule.
[url=http://www.mirror.co.uk/all-about/ministry of justice]A Ministry of Justice spokesman[/url] said: “If after seven years a person is still missing and there has been no sight or contact with them, they are presumed dead.
“The family can then apply for a ­Certificate of Presumed Death from a court which allows them to help resolve that person’s affairs or simply to help give them some closure.
“This can be done without a body being found. No-one can prepare for the heartache and confusion which arises when a loved one disappears with no trace.”



http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/maddie-mccanns-parents-we-wont-3459122#ixzz2zwSASUUy

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Re: Maddie McCann's parents: ''We won't apply for death certificate and still hold out hope 7 years on"

Post by sharonl on 26.04.14 1:13

According to UK press reports NSY are on the trail of:

3 Burglars
6 Cleaners
5 Apartment owners
1 Dead Junkie
A group of sex offenders
All mobile phone owners in the area
A selection of paedophiles

Apart from that, the press have taken the opportunity to alert the abductors to the fact that the Police are onto them and that they are likely to be arrested within weeks.

If the met are ready to make arrests, they must know who the abductor is.  If that is the case, then they must also know where Madeleine is (assuming that she is still alive). Why on earth don't they rush out to her rescue?

If there was any truth in any of this, Madeleine is now in serious danger of being disposed of as the abductor makes his getaway.  He is hardly likely to lay in wait for the police to knock his door, he will have been long gone by the time that NSY get there and highly unlikely to take Madeleine with him. 

But even then, NSY have no jurisdiction in Portugal, that's assuming that the alleged abductor is in Portugal. 

So given that the Mets selection of possible abductors range from Junkies to Paedophiles, and that the press have forewarned them, what are the chances that Madeleine will be found alive?

How on earth can the McCanns be so encouraged by NSY leads?

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Re: Maddie McCann's parents: ''We won't apply for death certificate and still hold out hope 7 years on"

Post by diatribe on 26.04.14 1:41

''Madeleine McCann’s parents have chosen not to apply for a death certificate – despite being entitled to one There is nothing to suggest Madeleine is not alive.''


Err!!




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Re: Maddie McCann's parents: ''We won't apply for death certificate and still hold out hope 7 years on"

Post by tigger on 26.04.14 6:41

I may be wrong, but I don't think they CAN apply for a death certificate.


She is a Ward of Court and they have no legal power over such decisions as I understand it.

As they themselves  had her made a Ward of Court just weeks after she disappeared it must have been a move that was in their favour.  Although this decision wasn't ratified until 2008.
They must have registered the Madeleine trademark at almost the same time. Around the time they also set up the Ltd. Co. which was allowed the word 'Fund' in the name, despite this being on the list of words generally not allowed by Company House when registering a new Ltd. Co.

So we can breathe eadily, there were no sleepless nights for the McCanns about this 'decision' -  and not at all a positive result from the efforts of SY, just  spin

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Re: Maddie McCann's parents: ''We won't apply for death certificate and still hold out hope 7 years on"

Post by Fiona09 on 26.04.14 8:37

tigger wrote:I may be wrong, but I don't think they CAN apply for a death certificate.


She is a Ward of Court and they have no legal power over such decisions as I understand it.

As they themselves  had her made a Ward of Court just weeks after she disappeared it must have been a move that was in their favour.  Although this decision wasn't ratified until 2008.
They must have registered the Madeleine trademark at almost the same time. Around the time they also set up the Ltd. Co. which was allowed the word 'Fund' in the name, despite this being on the list of words generally not allowed by Company House when registering a new Ltd. Co.

So we can breathe eadily, there were no sleepless nights for the McCanns about this 'decision' -  and not at all a positive result from the efforts of SY, just  spin
Was there ever any reason/explanation given at the time for why they made Madeleine a Ward of Court?  I've never understood this at all!

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Re: Maddie McCann's parents: ''We won't apply for death certificate and still hold out hope 7 years on"

Post by sharonl on 26.04.14 9:06

Well done Tigger, I am sure that you are correct and that this decision is out of their hands.

The only thing that I can think of for making Madeleine a ward of court would be to delay Social Services if they had got involved and arranged new guardianship for her, or even adoption. It would also prevent a close relative from applying for guardianship.

Are we sure that it was just Madeleine that was made Ward of court? All 3 children were at risk?

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Re: Maddie McCann's parents: ''We won't apply for death certificate and still hold out hope 7 years on"

Post by Guest on 26.04.14 9:21

sharonl wrote:Well done Tigger, I am sure that you are correct and that this decision is out of their hands.

The only thing that I can think of for making Madeleine a ward of court would be to delay Social Services if they had got involved and arranged new guardianship for her, or even adoption.  It would also prevent a close relative from applying for guardianship.

Are we sure that it was just Madeleine that was made Ward of court?  All 3 children were at risk?

It has crossed my mind
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Re: Maddie McCann's parents: ''We won't apply for death certificate and still hold out hope 7 years on"

Post by plebgate on 26.04.14 9:22

Snipped from OP:

"

Madeleine McCann’s parents have chosen not to apply for a death certificate – despite being entitled to one on the seventh anniversary of [url=http://www.mirror.co.uk/all-about/madeleine mccann]her disappearance[/url] next weekend.
Kate and Gerry McCann are so encouraged by Scotland Yard’s fresh leads into her disappearance that they will not seek for a Certificate of Presumed Death which applies after that period.
And they are so convinced Madeleine is still alive they are instead stepping up their efforts to find their daughter.

Her gran Susan Healy told the Mirror yesterday: “She could be found.”
And Kate herself has previously said: “Madeleine is still alive until someone proves otherwise.”
A person can legally be declared dead after seven years under British law despite the absence of direct proof of the victim’s death. But friends of the couple, from Rothley, Leics, said that was the “last thing on their minds” as they prepare for next Saturday’s grim milestone.
Their hopes of finding Madeleine, who would now be 10, have been boosted in recent months by the progress of a British police probe.
Scotland Yard [url=http://www.mirror.co.uk/all-about/scotland yard]detectives [/url]are believed to be poised for a breakthrough after their own three-year review that sparked a fresh investigation.
New evidence has come to light of a sex attack on a British girl of 10 in Praia da Luz two years before Madeleine disappeared there. It is one of five new Algarve assaults uncovered by senior British detectives.
Madeleine vanished from her parents’ holiday apartment in the Portuguese resort on May 03, 2007, just nine days short of her fourth birthday."


...........................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................

My red highlighting -" stepping up their efforts".  I thought they had put their search on hold since SY and Pt. police re-opened the investigation.   Are their PIs still at work then?   Maybe next week we will be asked to donate to the fund again in order for them to be able to step up their efforts?

If they are so buoyed by SY investigation why would they need to step up their efforts to find Maddie??????

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Re: Maddie McCann's parents: ''We won't apply for death certificate and still hold out hope 7 years on"

Post by sharonl on 26.04.14 9:38

The ground for making a declaration is that the missing person is thought to have died or has not been known to be alive for at least seven years (subsection (1)). Anyone can apply to the court for a declaration of presumed death, but if the applicant is someone other than the spouse, civil partner, parent, child or sibling of the missing person, the court must refuse to hear the application unless it considers that the applicant has a sufficient interest in the determination of the application (subsections (2) and (5)). It is for the court to decide whether any interest is sufficient for the purposes of this section. Sibling is defined in section 20(1) to include siblings of the full or half blood. The period of seven years may be altered by regulations under section 17. Subsection (6) refers to section 21(2) which provides that a declaration may not be sought in respect of the person of the Monarch.

Right to intervene
45.Section 11 specifies who may intervene in an application for a declaration under section 1 or a variation order under section 5 (subsections (1) – (3)). The following persons are entitled to intervene: the missing person’s spouse, civil partner, parent, child or sibling and the Attorney General. The court may permit other persons to intervene.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2013/13/notes

Over to Tony

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Re: Maddie McCann's parents: ''We won't apply for death certificate and still hold out hope 7 years on"

Post by Guest on 26.04.14 9:56

Mr Bennett certainly is one person who has a vested interest in the truth about the little girl coming to light one way or another;

For is she's pronounced dead, what podium do her parents retain for blaming him for whatever they are blaming him for?
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Re: Maddie McCann's parents: ''We won't apply for death certificate and still hold out hope 7 years on"

Post by PeterMac on 26.04.14 10:07

A certificate of Presumed death sounds the death knell for the

FUND

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Re: Maddie McCann's parents: ''We won't apply for death certificate and still hold out hope 7 years on"

Post by suzyjohnson on 26.04.14 10:08

If the McCanns were to apply for a declaration of presumed death, where would that leave them with regards to Amaral and the libel trial?

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Re: Maddie McCann's parents: ''We won't apply for death certificate and still hold out hope 7 years on"

Post by sharonl on 26.04.14 10:34

PeterMac wrote:A certificate of Presumed death sounds the death knell for the

FUND

As Kate keeps telling us, if people think that Madeleine is dead they will stop donating searching.

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Re: Maddie McCann's parents: ''We won't apply for death certificate and still hold out hope 7 years on"

Post by Guest on 26.04.14 10:41

It really is hard to believe though that there can be anything more now than the odd trickle of donations from diehard supporters; surely not enough to keep the McCanns in the luxury to which they've become accustomed.
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Re: Maddie McCann's parents: ''We won't apply for death certificate and still hold out hope 7 years on"

Post by Bishop Brennan on 26.04.14 10:49

No Fate Worse Than De'Ath wrote:It really is hard to believe though that there can be anything more now than the odd trickle of donations from diehard supporters; surely not enough to keep the McCanns in the luxury to which they've become accustomed.

When do the next set of annual figures come out? They will be at least a year out of date, but should show the trend. Sales from the 'bewk' may keep it looking at bit healthier, but surely the public have realised that this has been a busted flush for a long time now.
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Re: Maddie McCann's parents: ''We won't apply for death certificate and still hold out hope 7 years on"

Post by Guest on 26.04.14 10:52

The accounts are due by 31st December but usually arrive a week or two later.

I'm sure that Enid O'Dowd is already chomping at the bit to review them!
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Re: Maddie McCann's parents: ''We won't apply for death certificate and still hold out hope 7 years on"

Post by suzyjohnson on 26.04.14 11:29

No Fate Worse Than De'Ath wrote:It really is hard to believe though that there can be anything more now than the odd trickle of donations from diehard supporters; surely not enough to keep the McCanns in the luxury to which they've become accustomed.

...... but they were hoping to collect £1,000,000 from the libel trial. They cannot continue to argue that Amaral's claim is hindering the search for Madeleine if they are actually agreeing with his claim by applying for a certificate of presumed death.

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Re: Maddie McCann's parents: ''We won't apply for death certificate and still hold out hope 7 years on"

Post by Estelle on 26.04.14 11:34

Perhaps Gonçalo Amaral should consider seeking a court order declaring Madeleine is dead in absentia in Portugal? Or, someone maybe attempting this in England?


http://hypocriteandliar.wordpress.com/2010/01/17/madeleine-beth-mccann-alive-or-dead/
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Re: Maddie McCann's parents: ''We won't apply for death certificate and still hold out hope 7 years on"

Post by tigger on 26.04.14 11:37

sharonl wrote:The ground for making a declaration is that the missing person is thought to have died or has not been known to be alive for at least seven years (subsection (1)). Anyone can apply to the court for a declaration of presumed death, but if the applicant is someone other than the spouse, civil partner, parent, child or sibling of the missing person, the court must refuse to hear the application unless it considers that the applicant has a sufficient interest in the determination of the application (subsections (2) and (5)). It is for the court to decide whether any interest is sufficient for the purposes of this section. Sibling is defined in section 20(1) to include siblings of the full or half blood. The period of seven years may be altered by regulations under section 17. Subsection (6) refers to section 21(2) which provides that a declaration may not be sought in respect of the person of the Monarch.

Right to intervene
45.Section 11 specifies who may intervene in an application for a declaration under section 1 or a variation order under section 5 (subsections (1) – (3)). The following persons are entitled to intervene: the missing person’s spouse, civil partner, parent, child or sibling and the Attorney General. The court may permit other persons to intervene.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2013/13/notes

Over to Tony

Jumping in here, the biological parents are not in loco parentis as she's a ward of court.
If - as it seems - they cannot name her as oneof the claimants in the libel trial, they certainly can't apply for a declaration of death.
UltimaThule has at various times posted on this situation with the appropriate references. I believe Maddie is a Ward of Court up to her 18th birthday.
This is not my area of expertise, I'm just repeating what I've read but it makes sense to me.

Btw doesn't that photograph on page 1  prove the benefits of Botox to achieve an unruffled forehead?

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Re: Maddie McCann's parents: ''We won't apply for death certificate and still hold out hope 7 years on"

Post by sharonl on 26.04.14 11:39

No Fate Worse Than De'Ath wrote:It really is hard to believe though that there can be anything more now than the odd trickle of donations from diehard supporters; surely not enough to keep the McCanns in the luxury to which they've become accustomed.

Royalties from the book
Sale of stories to the press
TV interviews
Libel claims that we don't know about
Expenses from Missing People

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Re: Maddie McCann's parents: ''We won't apply for death certificate and still hold out hope 7 years on"

Post by sharonl on 26.04.14 11:48

tigger wrote:
sharonl wrote:The ground for making a declaration is that the missing person is thought to have died or has not been known to be alive for at least seven years (subsection (1)). Anyone can apply to the court for a declaration of presumed death, but if the applicant is someone other than the spouse, civil partner, parent, child or sibling of the missing person, the court must refuse to hear the application unless it considers that the applicant has a sufficient interest in the determination of the application (subsections (2) and (5)). It is for the court to decide whether any interest is sufficient for the purposes of this section. Sibling is defined in section 20(1) to include siblings of the full or half blood. The period of seven years may be altered by regulations under section 17. Subsection (6) refers to section 21(2) which provides that a declaration may not be sought in respect of the person of the Monarch.

Right to intervene
45.Section 11 specifies who may intervene in an application for a declaration under section 1 or a variation order under section 5 (subsections (1) – (3)). The following persons are entitled to intervene: the missing person’s spouse, civil partner, parent, child or sibling and the Attorney General. The court may permit other persons to intervene.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2013/13/notes

Over to Tony

Jumping in here, the biological parents are not in loco parentis as she's a ward of court.
If - as it seems - they cannot name her as oneof the claimants in the libel trial, they certainly can't apply for a declaration of death.
UltimaThule has at various times posted on this situation with the appropriate references. I believe Maddie is a Ward of Court up to her 18th birthday.
This is not my area of expertise, I'm just repeating what I've read but it makes sense to me.

Btw doesn't that photograph on page 1  prove the benefits of Botox to achieve an unruffled forehead?

Thanks Tigger

That's clearer now. So if the decision is out their hands, it's down to someone else, Sarah Hogg? So the legal guardian can apply for this certificate? What then for the Team McCann & the fund?


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Re: Maddie McCann's parents: ''We won't apply for death certificate and still hold out hope 7 years on"

Post by tigger on 26.04.14 11:49

sharonl wrote:
No Fate Worse Than De'Ath wrote:It really is hard to believe though that there can be anything more now than the odd trickle of donations from diehard supporters; surely not enough to keep the McCanns in the luxury to which they've become accustomed.

Royalties from the book
Sale of stories to the press
TV interviews
Libel claims that we don't know about
Expenses from Missing People

As to the first, it wasn't the bestseller they'd hoped for and though it was not possible to find the advance paid by the publisher in the accounts, it seems likely that the sales didn't exceed the advance payment, which means no royalties or very few have been paid since the advance.

As for not declaring her dead: a real moneyspinner, 10 more anniversaries to emote and beg for help.

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Re: Maddie McCann's parents: ''We won't apply for death certificate and still hold out hope 7 years on"

Post by aquila on 26.04.14 12:10

A reminder of the Fund objectives

Fund Objectives
The full objects of the Fund are:

  • To secure the safe return to her family of Madeleine McCann who was abducted in Praia da Luz, Portugal on Thursday 3rd May 2007;
  • To procure that Madeleine's abduction is thoroughly investigated and that her abductors, as well as those who played or play any part in assisting them, are identified and brought to justice; and
  • To provide support, including financial assistance, to Madeleine's family.

If the above objects are fulfilled then the objects of the Foundation shall be to pursue such purposes in similar cases arising in the United Kingdom, Portugal or elsewhere.

http://findmadeleine.com/about_the_campaign/index.html
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Re: Maddie McCann's parents: ''We won't apply for death certificate and still hold out hope 7 years on"

Post by diatribe on 26.04.14 13:27

The fund isn't the only reason it's not in the interests of the McCanns to have their daughter officially presumed dead. Whilst she is still presumed to be alive, it makes a prosecution for culpability in her death more difficult. Proving that Madeleine is in fact dead is a major stumbling block at the moment for the investigating authorities and the McCanns are hardly likely to assist in resolving this problem. Turkeys don't vote for Yultide.

The only circumstance  that I can foresee the McCanns agreeing to have their daughter declared dead is in the event that the Met. Police are permitted to fit some dead or feeble minded person up for her kidnapping/murder, thereby declaring them to be totally exonerated in this matter.

In the event of the aforementioned, one would find them queuing up outside the applicable gov. building in a blistering hail storm, pens in hand to sign on the dotted line long before it opened, in much the same vein as a New Yr. bargain hunter camping outside Harrods for that bargain basement priced, Ermine coat.

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Re: Maddie McCann's parents: ''We won't apply for death certificate and still hold out hope 7 years on"

Post by jozi on 26.04.14 14:22

PeterMac wrote:A certificate of Presumed death sounds the death knell for the

FUND

My thinking too........ clapping 
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