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Game over?

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Re: Game over?

Post by HelenMeg on 31.03.14 15:02

@PeterMac wrote:
@Cristobell wrote:He reports the news, he speaks on behalf of those in the public eye.

But in this case, he has NEVER said he was speaking on behalf of the McCanns.  He has always insisted that he KNEW the facts.
He was said they are innocent, that if Madeleine was dead it was not by their hands, that the Fund was not going to be used for legal fees,and so on.
He has thus placed himself deeper inside any conspiracy which may emerge, and may live to regret that he did not say "On behalf of my clients"  or "My clients wish me to say that . . "
Yes and it is for that reason that he is such a mystery. He has not merely acted as a media spokesman for the Mc Canns, he has offered his own opinions as to their innocence.
Almost as if he could have said exactly what he liked knowing nothing would ever happen to them. Similar to how the MC CANNS would often speak, as if they were above the law.
That is what is so intriguing about CM. He appears to be nothing but a jumped-up buffoon yet extremely useful to one and all. I think perhaps that through his BBC career he has acquired so many contacts that he is useful - he also knows how media works etc . I think he a useful tool that every party should have in their shed. But why state from his opinion that the Mc Canns are innocent when he could so easily have
talked as a spokesperson on their behalf without portraying them as anything.

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Re: Game over?

Post by Mirage on 31.03.14 16:55

HelenMeg wrote:

'I think he's a useful tool that every party should have in their shed.'


Preferably one with a padlock on.    big grin

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Re: Game over?

Post by tigger on 31.03.14 17:21

@Mirage wrote:HelenMeg wrote:

'I think he's a useful tool that every party should have in their shed.'


Preferably one with a padlock on.    big grin

'i'm a decent human being' . That's from the man himself, well - perhaps he was waiting for someone else to tell the world but waited in vain.

So now we know. He added something like: 'If I can help, I will'. He did too, telling the good people of Britain to put money in an eveloppe and send it to Gerry and Kate, Rothley. It will get there.

Gosh they must miss that daily avalanche of cash..... laughat 

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Re: Game over?

Post by Tony Bennett on 31.03.14 18:47

@tigger wrote:
'i'm a decent human being' . That's from the man himself, well - perhaps he was waiting for someone else to tell the world but waited in vain.

So now we know. He added something like: 'If I can help, I will'.
This sounds like a faint echo of Tony Blair's comments, soon after being elected in 1997:

++++++++++++++++++++

"I think most people who have dealt with me think I am a pretty straight sort of guy, and I am." [Speaking on the BBC's On The Record programme, November 2007, after the disclosure that Formula One boss Bernie Ecclestone would be made a Lord, soon after donating £1 mlilion to the Labour Party]

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Re: Game over?

Post by Monty Heck on 31.03.14 18:48

@PeterMac wrote:
@Cristobell wrote:He reports the news, he speaks on behalf of those in the public eye.

But in this case, he has NEVER said he was speaking on behalf of the McCanns.  He has always insisted that he KNEW the facts.
He was said they are innocent, that if Madeleine was dead it was not by their hands, that the Fund was not going to be used for legal fees,and so on.
He has thus placed himself deeper inside any conspiracy which may emerge, and may live to regret that he did not say "On behalf of my clients"  or "My clients wish me to say that . . "

He was certainly overly fond of the royal "we", as though he, K & G were a trio in complete accord rather than referring to them as clients on whose behalf he was speaking.

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Re: Game over?

Post by Monty Heck on 31.03.14 18:50

@tigger wrote:
@Mirage wrote:HelenMeg wrote:

'I think he's a useful tool that every party should have in their shed.'


Preferably one with a padlock on.    big grin

'i'm a decent human being' . That's from the man himself, well - perhaps he was waiting for someone else to tell the world but waited in vain.

So now we know. He added something like: 'If I can help, I will'. He did too, telling the good people of Britain to put money in an eveloppe and send it to Gerry and Kate, Rothley. It will get there.

Gosh they must miss that daily avalanche of cash..... laughat 
As the saying goes, if it needs to be pointed out, it's patently not true.  It's like saying, "I'm a cool human being" - if it needs said, then you're not.

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Re: Game over?

Post by The Rooster on 31.03.14 20:33

Personally I can't attribute any skill set to CM. He took the Faustion 70K income which must have excited him, it must have been an improvement on his then position or at least some improvement with prospects. Cheapskate. How do you sleep at night?

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Re: Game over?

Post by canada12 on 31.03.14 21:30

Do we know where Clarence Mitchell was during the week that the McCanns were on holiday in PDL, up until the night of May 3?
Since we're having a new look at all possibilities, and who was staying there, and who might have made a quick departure?
Just a thought.

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Re: Game over?

Post by XTC on 31.03.14 21:49

@The Rooster wrote:Personally I can't attribute any skill set to CM. He took the Faustion 70K income which must have excited him, it must have been an improvement on his then position or at least some improvement with prospects.  Cheapskate. How do you sleep at night?
Hi Rooster

Clarence Mitchell is only one of many PR people who embody the art of presenting black as white.

The likes of Blair and his ilk who present a lie as a truth are ten a penny these days and how they can look themselves in the mirror
each day I don't know. Most journalists and editors are only one step behind as well.

Mrs Thatcher was accused - possibly by Jim Prior? - as knowing the price of everything and the value of nothing but to be fair to her- despite my dislike for her and her policies - what you saw was what you got.

The startling thing about these types of people is that they believe they are worth the money paid for their services. Self decievers come with a high price tag I think. Personally I wouldn't pay them in washers and would put them to real work such as cleaning the toilets at Euston Station. They live in a different world than all of us whether you are Conservative or Labour.

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Re: Game over?

Post by The Rooster on 31.03.14 22:49

Nice one XTC, Mitchell is a ****

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Re: Game over?

Post by The Rooster on 31.03.14 22:56

Tony, Nelsonian, well maybe! I'm trying to look at the the thing in an empirical way. Nontheless a fair comment dear boy.

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Re: Game over?

Post by lj on 05.04.14 15:14

@sharonl wrote:We should consider the reason that this review was set up in the first place.  Remember that Theresa May was against the idea to start with and only agreed to it under pressure from David Cameron who was told by Rebekah Brooks that he would be exposed in the headlines every day if he didn't comply with her request.

Before the review was set, we had the McCann private detectives Metedo 3, Oakley International and Alphaig supplying the press with the latest nonsense on the case.  We had sightings galore, witnesses galore and many other spoof articles about what the PI's were up to.  Since the arrest or imprisonment of most of these clowns these stories seem to have dried up and we have had to make do with mystery men, un-named witnesses, sources and dead paedophiles..

So what has this review achieved?

1. It has kept David Cameron out of the headlines with whatever it is that Rebekah threatened to expose
2. It has provided the Rebekah and the press with numerous stories on the McCann case

Nothing else has been achieved, and if it had what could the Met police do about it?  They have no jurisdiction in Portugal, they may not even be recognised as police officers in Portugal.  To make an arrest they would need the assistance of the Portuguese Police, otherwise they may be seen as running a case alongside the official one or interfering, they may even get arrested themselves.

The British police have even stated that this is a case for the Portuguese Police, we are just assisting them.

Notice how there have been fewer sightings since the review started, the press now focus on what they say that the Met are doing.  Notice how the press stories have changed from weekly sightings to weekly suspects.

For me, this review is nothing more than a PR exercise, set up to keep Rebekah Brooks happy and to protect Cameron from adverse publicity in the headlines.

Imagine if there was no review, the press would have no story to sell.

I have often wondered what the relation between these two is now. Do you think Rebekah Brooks still signs her messages with LOL, and David Cameron still thinks it means "lots of Love"?

If someone blackmailed me our friendship would be over. Apart from that I take to not have a lot in my life I can be blackmailed with.

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Re: Game over?

Post by lj on 05.04.14 15:18

@Pershing36 wrote:I personally think that operation Grange is near the end, maybe just a few months, six at best.

The seeds have been sown in the red tops.  SY will claim "We were closing in but the Sardine cops wouldn't play ball".  "We kept sending requests but they followed different lines to us".  Then the most recent David Cameron will intervene says just about it.

I can never be sure why it was ordered in the first place, but my own suspicion is to let certain people get their hands on anything the PJ hadn't released.  Maybe I am totally wrong but the timings of all the releases of 'persons of interest' seemed to happen every time the libel trial might have caught some headlines.

Lets see if it all starts to fade away now.

Exavtly. The white wash only has to conclude they could not come to a conclusion and that's all Portugal's fault. Rooster Gerry will cackel again they are exonerated and Kate can resume her appearances.

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Re: Game over?

Post by lj on 05.04.14 15:20

Châtelaine wrote:
@Bishop Brennan wrote:Maria, are you AR in disguise?!   Or just an ace hacker that got into his laptop and stole his script?! A worryingly plausible whitewash scenario.  It doesn't stand up to detailed scrutiny of course, but in the media it wouldn't have to!
***
Of course, it doesn't. It still doesn't explain the cadaver scent on Kate's pants of ganga and top, the children's t-shirt, cuddle cat, the car ...

Seabass, periods and leftover of the pre-vacation deceaseds.

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Re: Game over?

Post by lj on 05.04.14 15:33

@ultimaThule wrote:On a point of information, Cristobell, AR said that 'Madeleine may not have left apartment 5A alive' which statement in itself does not equate to a "death in the apartment theory", nor does it indicate that your theory is one "they are now following".

There will of course be speculation here as to what alternative meaning may be read into AR's words, but IMO such speculation should  not be disseminated on social networks by those who are known to be members of this forum as it can only serve to adversely reflect on the credibility of the membership as a whole.

So now you are even dictating what members from this forum can post elsewhere?

 what 

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Re: Game over?

Post by ultimaThule on 05.04.14 16:37

'Dictate'?!  Not at all, lj - I wouldn't dream of dictating what other members post on social networking sites.  However, IMO is it incumbent on those who are widely known to be associated with this site to refrain from publicly disseminating information which is blatantly untrue in connection with this case. 

While writing, if Grange is intent on a whitewash what do you envisgage will happen in the event the PJ's investigation concludes there is evidence to substantiate charges against the McCanns and/or their pals?
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Re: Game over?

Post by Seek truth on 05.04.14 17:03

Well I'd like to hear the PJ say they have evidence and charge them, but I don't believe it'll happen. I hope I'm wrong. After 7 years, and Mr Amaral tried but he was pushed away. They've had lots of opportunities, but the  English quickly come in and change things, just ask Mr Amaral!

The trial, stopped, and when things weren't working for them, things change and Tannerman is found etc.

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Re: Game over?

Post by Cristobell on 05.04.14 17:59

@ultimaThule wrote:'Dictate'?!  Not at all, lj - I wouldn't dream of dictating what other members post on social networking sites.  However, IMO is it incumbent on those who are widely known to be associated with this site to refrain from publicly disseminating information which is blatantly untrue in connection with this case. 

While writing, if Grange is intent on a whitewash what do you envisgage will happen in the event the PJ's investigation concludes there is evidence to substantiate charges against the McCanns and/or their pals?
As I am the one being spoken about, I was not disseminating information that was blatantly untrue.  DCI Redwood said Madeleine may not have been alive when she left the apartment - not alive = dead.  I really don't see where the confusion comes from.  I'm more concerned with the fact that you don't want us to discuss the theory of death in apartment, which is something most of us have believed since this case first hit the news.  

As for your suggestion that my discussing the theory of death in the apartment would reflect badly on this forum, I really don't understand your logic. Perhaps you could explain.

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Re: Game over?

Post by Guest on 05.04.14 18:10

Are you both sure to be in a "discussion"? Instead of repeating mantras? Launching "attacks"?
IMO better take this to the back in PM and come out again, when things are sorted.

Sorry, Mods  big grin I know, I should know my place, but ...

I do appreciate both members. And read their posts with interest - until - the bitch-fight starts again  nah
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Re: Game over?

Post by Guest on 05.04.14 18:18

Your comment is very timely, Chatelaine, thank you.

Claws in, please everyone.
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Re: Game over?

Post by TheTruthWillOut on 05.04.14 18:25

@Seek truth wrote:Well I'd like to hear the PJ say they have evidence and charge them, but I don't believe it'll happen. I hope I'm wrong. After 7 years, and Mr Amaral tried but he was pushed away. They've had lots of opportunities, but the  English quickly come in and change things, just ask Mr Amaral!

The trial, stopped, and when things weren't working for them, things change and Tannerman is found etc.

This is what annoys me about this TBH. IMO, the Portuguese government are just as complicit as the UK government if they "allowed" the UK to come in and change things...

Are there/where there any statements from Portuguese government officials/politicians that have questioned either the Tapas 9 story or the UK government interference? (Excluding Amaral)  

The lack of anything from the Portuguese authorities side is seldom talked about IMO. The PJ may have secrecy laws, but does that stop a Portuguese politician from defending their police and country? Or questioning the motives of the UK side?

And "rising above it" (UK trash talk) doesn't really wash for me either.

Sorry for the rant, but this really does bother me and I'm pretty meek!
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Re: Game over?

Post by lj on 05.04.14 18:38

@j.rob wrote:As this case has been so politically driven from the outset, I would imagine that the way in which the case unravels (I do believe it will, eventually) will also be governed by political interests. Timing is everything in politics. There are good times to bury bad news and there are bad times to bury good news. And so on. Politicians want to gain votes. The Government of the day have a need to keep at least a semblance of law and order and that means the public having at least some level of confidence in the police force, the NHS, our legal system and other professional/state bodies. I think this case demonstrated just how much sleaze there had been under B LIAR and it carried on under Brown. It happened at a very sensitive time politically and provided a convenient platform for many people to jump on. I think the unfolding of the case will also be governed at least in part by what else in going on politically and the prevailing mood and climate of the economy generally. There is also diplomacy to be considered - not just relations with Portugal but how the UK is perceived internationally. To continue to allow a bunch of mediocre and neglectful doctors to lead a major crime investigation, control and gag the media, launder money around in a fraudulent fund which finances libel suits against detractors would not be good for the UK's image. It's quite ironic really that Clarence Mitchell used to be involved in media relations for the Government. The zeal with which he attached himself to the McCann wagon from practically the outset was proof, in one were needed, that politics was always a defining feature of this case. Quite sickening really when you consider what the case SHOULD really be about.


Great post.
I do believe that it is not so much something the McCanns holding something on an important person it is this process that you describe so much better than I could. I used to describe it as "not wanting to look stupid". Of course with every step the government took, the stakes got higher, reaching a new zenith with operation Grange.
That's one of the reasons why I believe Operation Grange will be a "whitewash". Now way they will come out with the parents as suspects, because that means they also have to admit to the very undue malversations from diplomats, politicians, and likely their now defunct forensics lab.

As far as Clarence goes: I think Tigger characterizing it as the Peter principle is correct. He has almost fascinated me with his almost comedy central statements. I think if anyone ever does a parody of him, they can use everything he ever said unedited. They should not forget the way he dressed up at times: the fake policeman, the optimistic McCann fan etc.

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Re: Game over?

Post by Guest on 05.04.14 18:42

@ultimaThule wrote:

While writing, if Grange is intent on a whitewash what do you envisgage will happen in the event the PJ's investigation concludes there is evidence to substantiate charges against the McCanns and/or their pals?

The $64 question.

The Portuguese insistence on rejecting the advances of the British to 'join forces' coupled with their absolute cloak of secrecy regarding their investigation and the recent chirpiness of Goncalo Amaral, convinces me the PJ are seeking evidence for the truth. This to the horror of the Brits who suspect as much, and are therefore compelled to continue with their own limping investigation with it's questionable remit, in the hope that at some point they will be able to achieve infiltration.

If that should happen, then the Met would learn how and where to direct any ammunition designed to terminate the PJ's investigation. If it should not, will we see governmental intervention again, recently indicated as a possibility from the very mouth of David Cameron himself?

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Re: Game over?

Post by tigger on 05.04.14 19:46

@lj wrote:
@j.rob wrote:As this case has been so politically driven from the outset, I would imagine that the way in which the case unravels (I do believe it will, eventually) will also be governed by political interests. Timing is everything in politics. There are good times to bury bad news and there are bad times to bury good news. And so on. Politicians want to gain votes. The Government of the day have a need to keep at least a semblance of law and order and that means the public having at least some level of confidence in the police force, the NHS, our legal system and other professional/state bodies. I think this case demonstrated just how much sleaze there had been under B LIAR and it carried on under Brown. It happened at a very sensitive time politically and provided a convenient platform for many people to jump on. I think the unfolding of the case will also be governed at least in part by what else in going on politically and the prevailing mood and climate of the economy generally. There is also diplomacy to be considered - not just relations with Portugal but how the UK is perceived internationally. To continue to allow a bunch of mediocre and neglectful doctors to lead a major crime investigation, control and gag the media, launder money around in a fraudulent fund which finances libel suits against detractors would not be good for the UK's image. It's quite ironic really that Clarence Mitchell used to be involved in media relations for the Government. The zeal with which he attached himself to the McCann wagon from practically the outset was proof, in one were needed, that politics was always a defining feature of this case. Quite sickening really when you consider what the case SHOULD really be about.


Great post.
I do believe that it is not so much something the McCanns holding something on an important person it is this process that you describe so much better than I could. I used to describe it as "not wanting to look stupid". Of course with every step the government took, the stakes got higher, reaching a new zenith with operation Grange.
That's one of the reasons why I believe Operation Grange will be a "whitewash". Now way they will come out with the parents as suspects, because that means they also have to admit to the very undue malversations from diplomats, politicians, and likely their now defunct forensics lab.

As far as Clarence goes: I think Tigger characterizing it as the Peter principle is correct. He has almost fascinated me with his almost comedy central statements. I think if anyone ever does a parody of him, they can use everything he ever said unedited. They should not forget the way he dressed up at times: the fake policeman, the optimistic McCann fan etc.

What worries me is that McVey and Mitchell have both been made safe. i find it too coincidental. Anyone else? What's Jim Gamble doing these days? There's been some kind of merger of various missing people/children charities.
It's obviously the high profile participants in the McCann saga being taken out of harm's way.
Perhaps it works both ways and it's a good sign.  winkwink 

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Re: Game over?

Post by lj on 06.04.14 3:30

@ultimaThule wrote:'Dictate'?!  Not at all, lj - I wouldn't dream of dictating what other members post on social networking sites.  However, IMO is it incumbent on those who are widely known to be associated with this site to refrain from publicly disseminating information which is blatantly untrue in connection with this case. 

While writing, if Grange is intent on a whitewash what do you envisgage will happen in the event the PJ's investigation concludes there is evidence to substantiate charges against the McCanns and/or their pals?

I remain of the opinion that you cannot tell members from this forum what they can write elsewhere. Sorry No Fate Worse Than De'Ath, I have my nails in but this as friendly as I can be. BTW I did not see anything about planning attacks?

Sorry my english today sucks. I have been speaking 4 languages all day, my head is spinning and I really can't find the right words so let me give you a quote:

John Stuart Mill, On Liberty
If all mankind minus one, were of one opinion, and only one person were of the contrary opinion, mankind would be no more justified in silencing that one person, than he, if he had the power, would be justified in silencing mankind.
Were an opinion a personal possession of no value except to the owner; if to be obstructed in the enjoyment of it were simply a private injury, it would make some difference whether the injury was inflicted only on a few persons or on many.
But the peculiar evil of silencing the expression of an opinion is, that it is robbing the human race; posterity as well as the existing generation; those who dissent from the opinion, still more than those who hold it.
If the opinion is right, they are deprived of the opportunity of exchanging error for truth: if wrong, they lose, what is almost as great a benefit, the clearer perception and livelier impression of truth, produced by its collision with error.

What I think will happen is that the most PJ can come up with is hiding the body, and maybe neglect. I wonder if the statute of limitations won't come in  play then. But even if they are charged I think CR will do their thing, everyone will stall and stall. I think in the end the McCanns won't go to Portugal on free vacations anymore, the Portuguese are not heart broken about that and nothing will happen. The case goes silent until a body is being discovered.

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