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CRIMEWATCH Update on MadeleineMcCann case tonight 19th March - Page 18 Mm11

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The Complete Mystery of Madeleine McCann™
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CRIMEWATCH Update on MadeleineMcCann case tonight 19th March - Page 18 Mm11

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Post by jeanmonroe 20.03.14 13:31

pennylane wrote:

The McCanns are in sink or swim mode, and dirty tactics are their modus operandi.
-----------------------------------------------------------

Surely you meant to type "The McCanns are in STINK or swim mode..........."

 laughat laughat 
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Post by Cristobell 20.03.14 13:37

@Nereid wrote:So amongst all the Edgar/Alphaig fluff, this is the most significant:

"Redwood said the assumption that Madeleine had been alive when she left the apartment "may not follow with all our thinking" on the case."

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/mar/19/madeleine-mccann-police-intruder-girls-algarve

So, this means that the dogs' evidence is taken seriously and that Gerry's check at 9.10 is highly implausible. (Cadaver odour needs more than 50 minutes to develop).

Now why would Gerry have fabricated his 9.10 check? (allegedly of course).



Why would Matt go into the apartment to check on the kids and say all was well at 9.30? Albeit he could not confirm seeing Madeleine in her bed, a murder would cause quite a commotion, yet he reported the twins sleeping peacefully and no sign of disturbance. How is going to get out of that one?
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Post by pennylane 20.03.14 13:39

@Cristobell wrote:
@pennylane wrote:Scotland Yard is painting the Algarve to be a despicably lawless place whereby paedophiles abound, entering properties up and down the coast, molesting and stealing little children. It's (imo) a revenge tactic because the Portuguese authorities will not play ball with them. I believe the relationship is very sour indeed!

I have no doubt there is rivalry between them Penny, but even if there is, DCI Redwood has announced (lost in smelly man headlines) that they are looking at the idea that Madeleine was dead when she left the apartment.  Ergo, they are saying what Goncalo Amaral said, 7 years ago and they are looking at the McCanns - how could they not, if she died in the apartment?  

I don't think they are treating smelly man very seriously at all.  Are we to believe that a man with the intent of climbing in windows to sexually assault young girls would go out dressed in a luminous (artistic licence, lol) red sweater with a big white target on the back?  Not a good choice of clothes if you are expecting to be chased through the dark streets by an angry mob.  
I'm sorry Cristobell, I don't believe Scotland Yard would play such games and destroy the Algarve's reputation in the process. It's not how professionals work (imho).  The reason this is farcical is because the McCanns left such a mess in their wake, and cleaning it up can only be done with a Jesters hat on.
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Post by russiandoll 20.03.14 13:40

Cristobell  re MO     " How is going to get out of that one? "

  He isn't as far as I can see.

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Post by pennylane 20.03.14 13:42

@jeanmonroe wrote:pennylane wrote:

The McCanns are in sink or swim mode, and dirty tactics are their modus operandi.
-----------------------------------------------------------

Surely you meant to type "The McCanns are in STINK or swim mode..........."

 laughat laughat 
Even better!  big grin
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Post by jeanmonroe 20.03.14 13:56

Lowering the tone a tad:

I'm sure there are some soiled erm, er, 'nappies' at Rothley Towers , RIGHT NOW, after DCI Redwood's Guardian 'article'!

Hope the MCs have put them in the open car boot, to air, before taking them to the DUMP!
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Post by canada12 20.03.14 13:59

@Nereid wrote:So amongst all the Edgar/Alphaig fluff, this is the most significant:

"Redwood said the assumption that Madeleine had been alive when she left the apartment "may not follow with all our thinking" on the case."

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/mar/19/madeleine-mccann-police-intruder-girls-algarve

So, this means that the dogs' evidence is taken seriously and that Gerry's check at 9.10 is highly implausible. (Cadaver odour needs more than 50 minutes to develop).

Now why would Gerry have fabricated his 9.10 check? (allegedly of course).


Exactly. Following this along logically... if DCI Redwood is suggesting that Madeleine was dead when she was removed from the apartment.

Either someone broke in and killed her and removed her body...

Or someone broke in and removed an already dead Madeleine...

What are the chances of the above two happening (in between all the checks)?

Or Madeleine died and the parents knew about it and arranged for her removal, either by themselves or someone else.

There are no other answers.
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Post by Silverspeed 20.03.14 14:05

@jeanmonroe wrote:Despite, the bad breath, the unkempt hair and beard, the odour of garbage, the nicotine dripping from his grimy fingers, he left no trace of his DNA in the apartment whatsoever.
-----------------------------------------

AND not a single dew-drop from his dark tanned face, that was dripping profusely, from his liberally applied K&G's exclusive "Eau de De'ath" aftershave.

  big grin  big grin
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Post by Liz Eagles 20.03.14 14:08

Scotland Yard appeal for Smithman on Crime Watch = Libel trial postponement

Scotland Yard appeal for Smellyman on Crime Watch = Libel trial dead duck?

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Post by pennylane 20.03.14 14:08

@jeanmonroe wrote:Lowering the tone a tad:

I'm sure there are some soiled erm, er, 'nappies' at Rothley Towers , RIGHT NOW!

Hope the MCs have put them in the open car boot, to air, before taking them to the DUMP!
 
That's a tad low jean, but I'm afraid Redwood's beaten you by a long shot with his bed hopping, necrophiliac paedophile suspect, on whose head there's a juicy reward! sarcastic
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Post by lj 20.03.14 14:12

@canada12 wrote:
@Seek truth wrote:Didn't Kate write about this in her book years ago?


 sarcastic

If Kate wrote about this in The Bewk then I can see the logic in SY investigating it.

I believe AR was being honest when he said they were investigating with a view towards identifying and eliminating this person from their lines of inquiry.

As I said before, knocking the legs out from underneath all McCann lines of defense if this should go to court.

Due diligence, no matter how silly it seems on the surface.

That's not exactly what he said canada. He said "proof or disproof" with equal emphasis.

I understand you like to think this is all to eliminate other possible suspects. We'll see, my prediction is still: this is nowhere leading to the McCanns being charged with anything. it's just to look busy. The Portuguese will be blamed for their failure.

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Post by Guest 20.03.14 14:14

@jeanmonroe wrote:Lowering the tone a tad:

I'm sure there are some soiled erm, er, 'nappies' at Rothley Towers , RIGHT NOW, after DCI Redwood's Guardian 'article'!

Hope the MCs have put them in the open car boot, to air, before taking them to the DUMP!



I heard they had to borrow some more nappies from Gordon!  winkwink
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Post by j.rob 20.03.14 14:15

@Cristobell wrote:
@Nereid wrote:So amongst all the Edgar/Alphaig fluff, this is the most significant:

"Redwood said the assumption that Madeleine had been alive when she left the apartment "may not follow with all our thinking" on the case."

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/mar/19/madeleine-mccann-police-intruder-girls-algarve

So, this means that the dogs' evidence is taken seriously and that Gerry's check at 9.10 is highly implausible. (Cadaver odour needs more than 50 minutes to develop).

Now why would Gerry have fabricated his 9.10 check? (allegedly of course).



Why would Matt go into the apartment to check on the kids and say all was well at 9.30?  Albeit he could not confirm seeing Madeleine in her bed, a murder would cause quite a commotion, yet he reported the twins sleeping peacefully and no sign of disturbance.  How is going to get out of that one?

Does this bring us back to the changing time-scales of that evening with many eyewitnesses claiming that they heard commotion that a child had gone missing as early as 9.15pm that evening and certainly well before the 10pm time later claimed by Kate in her book. At 9.05pm when Gerry was allegedly checking the children in the apartment, what was really going on? The Jane Tanner 'sighting' at 9.15 - was this to take the heat off Gerry being seen near the apartment by an independent eye-witness, Jez Wilkins, at between 9.15 and 9.30pm? (Which was clearly a crucial time on this evening as that is when the alarm was first raised.)

So was the alleged Matt 'check' at 9.30pm, when he conveniently did not actually look right inside the apartment -  so could not say whether Madeleine was in there or not - a way to 'buy time' and claim the later abduction at the time of Kate's alleged 'check' at 10pm? This delayed the police arrival considerably. And was the Jane Tanner 'sighting' designed to take the heat of the Smith sighting of Gerry walking away with a sedated Madeleine at around 10pm?

I know this has all been covered at length already, but the McCanns and their friends give so much weight to the time-line that evening, the timings of their 'checks' and to the Jane Tanner 'sighting' that all these factors must be crucial, imo, in terms of alibis and 'red herrings'

The fact that Kate tries very hard indeed to suggest that the man who Jane Tanner allegedly saw is the same man that the Smith family saw at 10pm is also suspicious, imo. Despite the absurdity that an abductor would wander around the resort for so long after being spotted once already.

The Matt check at 9.30pm must have been designed to 'buy more time' so that Madeleine could be removed from the resort before the police arrived (even if, as the sniffer dog evidence suggests, she was brought back into the apartment at a later date either already dead or where she subsequently died.)

So can we postulate that Gerry bumping into Jez Wilkins put a spanner in the works - delaying the removal of Madeleine from the resort until later which meant that it was imperative to delay the arrival of the police in the resort?
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Post by lj 20.03.14 14:18

@aiyoyo wrote:
@Woofer wrote:
@loopzdaloop wrote:Its surely great news that the Portugese have reopened the case.

Does this mean arrests soon ?

They started their review months before SY and their proper investigation has been going on for ages - can`t remember exactly when it commenced.

IIRC, Portuguese starts their own review 10 months or a year ahead of MET.
If this - a string of itinerary crimes involving children - is the basis that justifies the official re-opening of the Maddie case, the Mccanns would have been informed of the re-opening.  This would make sense how Kate knew about it hence her mentioning of it in her bewk, and hence why it was not in released files.
It therefore goes without saying MET were also told of this from the outset when they accepted PT invite to join the review.

Why did Redwood not announce this earlier, why now ?
Why is the bin man faceless ?
Is this bin man one of the two e-fits ?
Is this a new appeal or a re-appeal of the CW ?


Why did Redwood not announce this earlier, why now ?
Because he had to kick back at the Portuguese.
Why is the bin man faceless ?
Because he is not important, Andy knows he has nothing to do with the case.
Is this bin man one of the two e-fits ?
No
Is this a new appeal or a re-appeal of the CW ?
No, this is another episode to finally proof that SY's utter failure was all Portugal's fault.

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Post by whatliesbehindthesofa 20.03.14 14:27

@j.rob wrote:

Does this bring us back to the changing time-scales of that evening with many eyewitnesses claiming that they heard commotion that a child had gone missing as early as 9.15pm that evening and certainly well before the 10pm time later claimed by Kate in her book. At 9.05pm when Gerry was allegedly checking the children in the apartment, what was really going on? The Jane Tanner 'sighting' at 9.15 - was this to take the heat off Gerry being seen near the apartment by an independent eye-witness, Jez Wilkins, at between 9.15 and 9.30pm? (Which was clearly a crucial time on this evening as that is when the alarm was first raised.)

So was the alleged Matt 'check' at 9.30pm, when he conveniently did not actually look right inside the apartment -  so could not say whether Madeleine was in there or not - a way to 'buy time' and claim the later abduction at the time of Kate's alleged 'check' at 10pm? This delayed the police arrival considerably. And was the Jane Tanner 'sighting' designed to take the heat of the Smith sighting of Gerry walking away with a sedated Madeleine at around 10pm?

I know this has all been covered at length already, but the McCanns and their friends give so much weight to the time-line that evening, the timings of their 'checks' and to the Jane Tanner 'sighting' that all these factors must be crucial, imo, in terms of alibis and 'red herrings'

The fact that Kate tries very hard indeed to suggest that the man who Jane Tanner allegedly saw is the same man that the Smith family saw at 10pm is also suspicious, imo. Despite the absurdity that an abductor would wander around the resort for so long after being spotted once already.

The Matt check at 9.30pm must have been designed to 'buy more time' so that Madeleine could be removed from the resort before the police arrived (even if, as the sniffer dog evidence suggests, she was brought back into the apartment at a later date either already dead or where she subsequently died.)

So can we postulate that Gerry bumping into Jez Wilkins put a spanner in the works - delaying the removal of Madeleine from the resort until later which meant that it was imperative to delay the arrival of the police in the resort?

You can postulate what you like :)  I postulate that Kate went either to check or to just be in a different place from Gerry at 9:30pm - almost immediately after Gerry returned to the table according to witness statements - and that the reason for the half hour shift to 10pm was to push the alert beyond the time of the Smith sighting.  Which is all nice and simple, and I'm sure William of Ockham would be pleased.

Also, I find the idea that Madeleine's dead body was brought back into the apartment after the 3rd most improbable.

ETA - but this is off-topic, probably best if this is discussed elsewhere :)
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Post by lj 20.03.14 14:34

@Mirage wrote:
@canada12 wrote:
@Seek truth wrote:Didn't Kate write about this in her book years ago?


 sarcastic

If Kate wrote about this in The Bewk then I can see the logic in SY investigating it.

I believe AR was being honest when he said they were investigating with a view towards identifying and eliminating this person from their lines of inquiry.

As I said before, knocking the legs out from underneath all McCann lines of defense if this should go to court.

Due diligence, no matter how silly it seems on the surface.

Can you imagine the size of court bundles? CR will be directing the jury to page so and so, then page so and so. Eons could pass.


"that's gonna be storage locker 15, box 483 on the left, folder MO, page 216"
 biggergrin 

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Post by jozi 20.03.14 14:38

@Cristobell wrote:
@pennylane wrote:Scotland Yard is painting the Algarve to be a despicably lawless place whereby paedophiles abound, entering properties up and down the coast, molesting and stealing little children. It's (imo) a revenge tactic because the Portuguese authorities will not play ball with them. I believe the relationship is very sour indeed!

I have no doubt there is rivalry between them Penny, but even if there is, DCI Redwood has announced (lost in smelly man headlines) that they are looking at the idea that Madeleine was dead when she left the apartment.  Ergo, they are saying what Goncalo Amaral said, 7 years ago and they are looking at the McCanns - how could they not, if she died in the apartment?  

I don't think they are treating smelly man very seriously at all.  Are we to believe that a man with the intent of climbing in windows to sexually assault young girls would go out dressed in a luminous (artistic licence, lol) red sweater with a big white target on the back?  Not a good choice of clothes if you are expecting to be chased through the dark streets by an angry mob.  

Wow just seen this...is it true AR said Madeleine could have been dead when left apartment, this is a BIG breakthrough IMO.Please please be true that they are now looking at the death of Maddie, wonder WHAT brought this on !!!
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Post by lj 20.03.14 14:43

@CynicAl wrote:Either SY are indeed whitewashing. And this is risky given that their reputation is already in the gutter and they are a laughing stock. 

Or this is a new, admittedly painful, stage of sifting and flushing. 

First, we already know that Stinkyman does not gel with any of the known facts at all, either the facts about Stinkyman or the facts that cling to the necks of that child's derelict parents and their licenscious chums. 

However, look at the profile of Amaral's 'prime suspects' - look at their response to AR ruling out Tannerman... It is only the fictional perpetrator of a felonious crime who would shrug and allow authorities to randomly pursue any other vaporous perpetrator or scenario as long as it points away from them, because that represents a loss of control. You become as much a subject of the roller coaster pursuit as the victim did. All those carefully crafted fables and corroborated accounts, while you were directing the police where to look. Do you think TM want Tannerman ruled out again? Do they want to be interviewed again about a whole new perp profile? To have to re-weave their fables to fit in with the new suspect? To have to admit that they disregarded and failed to support Edgar's enquiries years ago, making them as blundersome as Porto Plod? To have to face the imminent closure of their lifestyle fund and the possible writing off of their case, ascribed to a long-gone random pervert, case closed? What do you think that would do to sociopathic control freaks? 

Who unearthed Stinkyman? PJ? Amaral? Edgar? If the latter, I would want to know if he actually raised evidence of factual events, or found a half dozen curiously English-only people to give him testimony? Was Edgar running an investigation? Or an interference operation? How could I find out? By seeking victims beyond the profiled control group. By blowing it open to four countries of tourists in that region. By ringing bells. By taking it beyond the control of the one who staged the information. I'd be unravelling my opponents intricately crafted 'exhaustive' investigation, until all I was left with were the suspects that their investigators refused to consider... Themselves. 

Or it could just be a very expensive, pointless, easier-to-whitewash-than-this kind of self-affirming self-whitewash of a formerly effective whitewash. 

I can't help but sense that whatever mechanics put this investigation back on rails in two countries wanted to cause as much pain and discomfort as possible to the Tapas group. 

Payne/Gaspar still noticeable by absence. The dogs are being ignored. Kate's arguido silence still a moot point, yet all three would be sterling silver evidence in a prosecution or investigation in any credible country of the world. And GA would be commended as the only investigator to actually behave like a good detective, letting statistical likelihoods and pertinent facts steer his suspicions from the outset.

It does not have a whitewash in the sense that it declares the pathetic parents innocent. Look how the reaction of the pros, media and TM themselves was on the case being shelved in Portugal. Iso "there was enough evidence to charge them with a crime, it became: "fully exonerated".

Imagine now if SY can't charge them. That would solidify Gerry's "there is not a shred of evidence" etc.

The only thing SY has to do is find 0, zilch, nada to prosecute, blame Portugal for that, and every one is home safe. Andy gets his (golf) balls and the conning couple can continue their rise in the public/politic arena.

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Post by Doug D 20.03.14 14:44

Lazzeri’s on a roll now
 
‘And Smelly Man is not the only thing that stinks in this case’.
 
http://l-azzeri-lies-in-the-sun.com/Roux__v___Redwood.html
 
 
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Post by jeanmonroe 20.03.14 14:48

The fact that Kate tries very hard indeed to suggest that the man who Jane Tanner allegedly saw is the same man that the Smith family saw at 10pm is also suspicious, imo. Despite the absurdity that an abductor would wander around the resort for so long after being spotted once already.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

But would explain how Smithman managed to have 'short, cropped hair' (Andy's E-Fits) as opposed to JT's Tannerman who had a "Good head of dark glossy hair, with possible flick of hair to the right. The hair was longer at the back (i.e not clippered or shaven).

He had 'popped into' the all night barbers between 9:20pm and 9:55pm before continuing his 'journey' to the beach at 10:00pm!
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Post by HelenMeg 20.03.14 14:53

At least Andy has seen to it that the Fund will not be receiving many donations from now on..
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Post by Seek truth 20.03.14 14:53

@Cristobell wrote:
@russiandoll wrote:quote from Kate's book :

'It broke my heart to read the terrible accounts of these devastated parents and the experiences of their poor children......there was a familiar thread running through them all. The parents had called the police; they hadn't felt that the crime was taken seriously by the police or by their tour operators; statements were often not take; DNA and fingerprint evidence was frequently not sought. In most cases there was no sign of a break-in.'


I am a parent in such a situation. Not only do I want justice for my own child who thank God is still with us, but I think my child's awful experience might have some bearing on the case of a missing little girl. Police in the country where the offence was committed are doing nothing. I can complain to UK police but they have no jurisdiction, it would seem.

 Who do I go to to draw attention to this? The Maddie-obsessed media might be a good start, they would for sure put it on their front pages.




Indeed  smilie  They had the world's media sitting on their doorstep who would have given their right arms and thrown in a lung to get a scoop like that.  A 'cooey' out of the window to one of them would have been all that was necessary.
Maybe the papers and SY forgot to read Kate's book.

Funny these stories were never ever printed at the time they occurred, nothing on the news or papers. Even though this man liked to sit by their beds many times throughout all those years.
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Post by jeanmonroe 20.03.14 14:54

jozi wrote:

Please please be true that they are now looking at the death of Maddie, wonder WHAT brought this on !!!
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ASK THE DOGS, JOZI!
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Post by jozi 20.03.14 15:00

@jeanmonroe wrote:jozi wrote:

Please please be true that they are now looking at the death of Maddie, wonder WHAT brought this on !!!
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ASK THE DOGS, JOZI!

LOL I know about the dogs jean but does Andy ?
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Post by lj 20.03.14 15:02

@russiandoll wrote:I have read and heard the media trashing the Portuguese police, but I have not heard UK police do so. Where did this happen, please , as I have clearly missed something yesterday.

 Don't like to be gruesome, but is it not the case that abductor MO in cases of sexual assault/ murder is to abduct...assault....murder....dump the body?

 In this case the theory of those who believe this latest suspect is responsible for Maddie's disappearance and who integrate Redwood's belief that Maddie might not have left 5a alive is that the abductor

 assaulted then killed Maddie, before removing her body and dumping it.

 Please do not tell me that these people believe that a man working the bins as part of a team, wearing suitable clothing rather than a shirt or bare chested, left work for a break when he committed these crimes. in Maddie's case killing her, then carrying her body to the bin lorry to conceal it, where he would have been witnessed by his colleagues? Or that he extended his break by carrying a body , dumping it and then returning to work?
 It is preposterous.

 btw no abduction word from Redwood or Kirsty Young on CW.

https://www.thinglink.com/scene/502807952751591426

Watch Andy's video.
Also note his barely contained chuckle

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