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Terminally McCanned?

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Terminally McCanned?

Post by kimHager on 14.03.14 16:47

May have been asked before but...
Hypothetical scenario..all things being alleged and in no way posting as facts. . Suppose Madeleine was terminally ill hence the trips maybe family vacations IE donegal and Portugal.... The purple wristband which I googled. Purple medical bands have a few different meanings. One was do not draw blood  one was a do not rescussitate. Anyway  KM talked about how tired she ( Madeleine )was and had to be carried one day. Suppose she passed away and the mccanns with all their medical training couldn't bring her back. Does anyone think the possible cover up was or could have been done due to medical negligence?  Say maybe because they were experimenting with new drugs or possibly no meds. Maybe they knew time was short and planned an abduction scenario to cash in on the already tragic circumstances. Was just wondering if anyone believes it could have been planned but not as in murder maybe just as need money. Why would two doctors need money in that large a sum... Could it have been huge medical bills that did it? Sorry I know this may have been covered and i really don't know if it's even possible. I could never do it... Just can't figure it out.Trying to look at any angle I might have missed.
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Re: Terminally McCanned?

Post by frost on 14.03.14 16:56

None of the photos I have seen of Madeleine make me think she was terminally ill . I have spent 2 years previously on and off on a childrens cancer ward and also spent time on a childrens cardiac ward . Images I will never forget . She does not resemble a child close to the end of life nor does she resemble a child on steroids which many take for various medical conditions including children on chemo etc . I have been visiting a childrens day hospital for over 15 years and nothing in any photos , videos I have seen of her make me think she was ill .

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Re: Terminally McCanned?

Post by kimHager on 14.03.14 18:31

Type frost. Honestly she looked healthy in the few pics I've seen except for the eye shadow pic but that was a horrible pic IMO.

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Re: Terminally McCanned?

Post by kimHager on 14.03.14 19:21

Thank you frost not type :)

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Re: Terminally McCanned?

Post by suzyjohnson on 14.03.14 21:22

No, Madeleine did not appear to be seriously ill.

 However, medical negligence could be the cause of a possible cover up, if for example, MM had sustained a concussion on the Wednesday night (perhaps while her parents were out drinking) which was not attended to, by not taking her to the hospital. 

If she had had such an accident (falling behind the sofa) it may have been a hour, or much longer, before her parents discovered she had been injured (another reason for not going to the hospital?)

In that case she could have appeared to be well enough to attend the Creche on the Thursday, but by Thurs evening be showing signs of a more serious injury (for example, she was very tired after the Creche) or, she could have fallen again, a second concussion often being more dangerous than a first.

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Re: Terminally McCanned?

Post by Irisheyes on 14.03.14 21:38

My own thought is that the reason she said Madeline was tired etc was that Madeline was acting up like most kids at the end of the day on holidays and was taking home by a stressed out bad humoured Kate and sedated that little bit extra. She cannot bring herself to think or talk about it so just makes Madeline sleepy to avoid it. I always find that part of the book very false and feel like she is disassociating herself from it as she so often does. All my own opinion of course.

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Re: Terminally McCanned?

Post by Woofer on 14.03.14 22:14

The tiredness (if this can be believed as happening on the 3rd) could have come from a head injury earlier in the week.  On the Monday Maddie was taken out of the Lobsters after only 15 minutes.  Had she hit her head and her parents were called to collect her? - Not necessarily at the creche, could have been in the lunch hour.  Maybe Cat advised them to get her checked out at a hospital but they decided to handle the situation themselves (as they are all doctors).  If she had concussion, its affects are wide ranging and could be why she woke and couldn`t sleep on the Tuesday night.  It would explain `we`ve let her down`and the cosying up with Cat Baker afterwards.  Just an thought though.
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Re: Terminally McCanned?

Post by ultimaThule on 14.03.14 22:35

frost wrote:None of the photos I have seen of Madeleine make me think she was terminally ill . I have spent 2 years previously on and off on a childrens cancer ward and also spent time on a childrens cardiac ward . Images I will never forget . She does not resemble a child close to the end of life nor does she resemble a child on steroids which many take for various medical conditions including children on chemo etc . I have been visiting a childrens day hospital for over 15 years and nothing in any photos , videos I have seen of her make me think she was ill .
I have seen photos in which the child* does not look well; some in which it could be she's taking, or has taken, steroids, and others in which I've suspected foetal alcohol sydrome.

*The reason I've opted to use 'the child' is that, IMO, many of the images which are puported to be those of Madeleine appear to be photos of two or more different children.
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Re: Terminally McCanned?

Post by PeterMac on 14.03.14 22:48

Woofer wrote:The tiredness (if this can be believed as happening on the 3rd) could have come from a head injury earlier in the week.  On the Monday Maddie was taken out of the Lobsters after only 15 minutes.  Had she hit her head and her parents were called to collect her? - Not necessarily at the creche, could have been in the lunch hour.  Maybe Cat advised them to get her checked out at a hospital but they decided to handle the situation themselves (as they are all doctors).  If she had concussion, its affects are wide ranging and could be why she woke and couldn`t sleep on the Tuesday night.  It would explain `we`ve let her down`and the cosying up with Cat Baker afterwards.  Just an thought though.

This is a very interesting observation.
Some of us who think 2nd, have perhaps believed that the event ( IT ) happened, and then the sequelae were inevitable over a short time.

Here in Spain, some time ago, a lad sustained an injury to the head - either falling off a ladder or tripping backwards once he had got off, or . . . . what ?
The ambulance had great difficulty in persuading him that he should go to hospital for checks. He was refusing.
Conscious, and loquacious, and adamant that he was AOK.
He did go to the local hospital, and later that afternoon was airlifted to the ICU in Malaga.
Three days later he died.

And a friend of mine has been under civil and criminal proceedings for the last six years for being owner of the ladder, from which he may, or may NOT, have fallen.
Diagnosis - - - - ?
Compensation has set in

Follow the money.

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Re: Terminally McCanned?

Post by kimHager on 14.03.14 23:06

Exactly PeterMac my thoughts too was they cashed in. I just have a hard time thinking the dreaded M word.... I've thought accident but that doesn't need covering up.... Nothing about this case makes sense... Except in AC/DC's words.. Come on come on listen to the money talk...

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Re: Terminally McCanned?

Post by kimHager on 14.03.14 23:09

UltimaThule.... Her ears were very low set and her hand was extremely odd looking maybe a very notable birth defect possibly why the pics were photoshopped so much

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Re: Terminally McCanned?

Post by jeanmonroe on 14.03.14 23:27

kimHager wrote:UltimaThule.... Her ears were very low set and her hand was extremely odd looking maybe a very notable birth defect possibly why the pics were photoshopped so much

Madeleine was 'ALMOST PERFECT' says her loving father, Gerry. (CW. OCT 2013)

Implying that Madeleine did indeed have an IMPERFECTION of 'some sort'

What a great thing for a father to say about his first born daughter..................NOT!

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Re: Terminally McCanned?

Post by frost on 15.03.14 6:53

I think the most plausible theory in this case is tragic accident eg head injury from falling off the sofa whilst looking for parents who were not in the apartment . This age group tends to soon tire when doing things out of their normal routine of which a holiday fits this category . When children begin nursery parents often remark how tired their children are and again when they start school full time . Every child is different but tiredness when doing something out of a childs normal routine is nothing unusual . One of mine at that age could literally fall asleep on a pin head and on starting nursery came home at lunch and slept all afternoon until time to pick up the others from school . Clumbsiness is not uncommen in this age group either and also having no sense of danger ie a child of this age would not think hmm no I best not climb on the sofa as I might fall and bang my head . 

It is true what they say when you have kids  especially this age group you need eyes in the back of your head that is why I find it even more abhorrent that 2 so called educated people doctors no less found it totally acceptable to leave a 3 year old and 2 year old twins alone to fend for themselves .

It also angers me greatly that these parents have not been charged with child neglect infact child abuse  and the twins taken into care . I have seen children placed into care for far less over the years and it really does beggar belief that according to Gerry he had been informed that their actions were well within the bounds of reasonable parenting . I would love to know who exactly informed the Mccanns of this as personally I think they should be struck of and never allowed to work with children ever again .

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Re: Terminally McCanned?

Post by frost on 15.03.14 7:12

ultimaThule wrote:
frost wrote:None of the photos I have seen of Madeleine make me think she was terminally ill . I have spent 2 years previously on and off on a childrens cancer ward and also spent time on a childrens cardiac ward . Images I will never forget . She does not resemble a child close to the end of life nor does she resemble a child on steroids which many take for various medical conditions including children on chemo etc . I have been visiting a childrens day hospital for over 15 years and nothing in any photos , videos I have seen of her make me think she was ill .
I have seen photos in which the child* does not look well; some in which it could be she's taking, or has taken, steroids, and others in which I've suspected foetal alcohol sydrome.

*The reason I've opted to use 'the child' is that, IMO, many of the images which are puported to be those of Madeleine appear to be photos of two or more different children.
 Ultima I have 3 children myself and worked with disabled children for many years . These children were either born disabled or became disabled through accident , illness or abuse  . Madeleine does not look to me to be suffering from any illness whether that be congenital , acquired  or an illness as a result of something her mother did during pregnancy . 

A lot of children this age can look a little odd ie eyes too big for their face , forehead too big , hands not in proportion to the rest of the body etc etc . Usually it is merely the pace at which a child has developed infact if I am honest one of my children looked like an alien until about 2 1/2 years old and started  nursery at age 3 looking no more than 18 mths - 2 years old yet had the vocabulary of a 6 year old purely and simply because they were born at 26 weeks . To this day they still have a very high forehead  though not as noticeable which is a common feature of prem babies but now look  perfectly 'normal ' in every way and I suspect very few would be able to tell they were born so prematurley especially as they are now 5ft 10 . 

Many people have little quirks and who is to say what is normal and what is not normal . Im sure everyone on this forum could remark on some part of their body that they do not think is quite 'normal' I know I can  . I hate that word by the way I mean define 'normal' ............ it is not easy is it

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Re: Terminally McCanned?

Post by Woofer on 15.03.14 9:29

kimHager wrote:Exactly PeterMac  my thoughts too was they cashed in. I just have a hard time thinking the dreaded M word.... I've thought accident but that doesn't need covering up.... Nothing about this case makes sense... Except in AC/DC's words.. Come on come on listen to the money talk...

It would need covering up if they had been arrogant enough not to take her to hospital but treat her/care for her themselves.   I doubt whether the cover-up would extend to calling in favours from officialdom - but who knows what aspects are involved.
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Re: Terminally McCanned?

Post by ultimaThule on 15.03.14 15:29

Wherever possible I try to avoid using the 'n' word and I came to this forum with the belief that Madeleine was nothing other than a healthy little girl who had achieved all of the milestones which signify appropriate progress on the childhood road to maturity, frost.

However, as reported to the PJ by her parents after she was 'taken', Madeleine's height of 90cm is well below average for a white British female child who was just a few days off her 4th birthday and, as such, would/should have been cause for concern to health practitioners as it can be an indication of failure to thrive which may have a physical and/or emotional cause. 

As stated, I have seen images purportedly of Madeleine in which the child appears to be unwell and looks to be afflicted by certain disorders of which I have named only one.  In other images of what is purported to be the same the child, there is an absence of any sign which may give rise to speculation about her health and wellbeing.

This post by tigger may be of interest to you https://jillhavern.forumotion.net/t8577p10-could-a-preplanned-adbuction-mean-the-same-as-a-staged-or-false-abduction#227618 and while I am not entirely convinced that, had she not been 'taken' at an early age, Madeleine was not long for this life, I don't feel able to discount the possibility that when her doting father described her 'almost perfect' appearance he was referring to that miniscule defect of the eye which is the coloboma that, against advice from the PJ - advice, I might add, that police forces around the world would give in similar circumstances and which one would have expected any concered parent to act upon - the McCanns were at pains to make known to the world as soon as was practically possible and which her loving mother subsequently claimed they 'didn't make much of'.   

Fwiw, to my eye the child shown tripping on the aircraft steps when boarding what is alleged to be the holiday flight on 29 April 2007 appears to have ginger hair not dissimilar in shade to that of Gerry McCann's natural hair colour and, regardless of whether or not she was afflicted with health issues, I remain of the opinon that after the birth of her twin siblings Madeleine became a scapegoat who was, effectively, excess baggage.
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Re: Terminally McCanned?

Post by cockerspaniel on 15.03.14 16:01

frost wrote:I think the most plausible theory in this case is tragic accident eg head injury from falling off the sofa whilst looking for parents who were not in the apartment . This age group tends to soon tire when doing things out of their normal routine of which a holiday fits this category . When children begin nursery parents often remark how tired their children are and again when they start school full time . Every child is different but tiredness when doing something out of a childs normal routine is nothing unusual . One of mine at that age could literally fall asleep on a pin head and on starting nursery came home at lunch and slept all afternoon until time to pick up the others from school . Clumbsiness is not uncommen in this age group either and also having no sense of danger ie a child of this age would not think hmm no I best not climb on the sofa as I might fall and bang my head . 

It is true what they say when you have kids  especially this age group you need eyes in the back of your head that is why I find it even more abhorrent that 2 so called educated people doctors no less found it totally acceptable to leave a 3 year old and 2 year old twins alone to fend for themselves .

It also angers me greatly that these parents have not been charged with child neglect infact child abuse  and the twins taken into care . I have seen children placed into care for far less over the years and it really does beggar belief that according to Gerry he had been informed that their actions were well within the bounds of reasonable parenting . I would love to know who exactly informed the Mccanns of this as personally I think they should be struck of and never allowed to work with children ever again .
 agree  agree  agree  goodpost  goodpost  goodpost

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Re: Terminally McCanned?

Post by Guest on 15.03.14 16:06

ultimaThule wrote:Wherever possible I try to avoid using the 'n' word and I came to this forum with the belief that Madeleine was nothing other than a healthy little girl who had achieved all of the milestones which signify appropriate progress on the childhood road to maturity, frost.

However, as reported to the PJ by her parents after she was 'taken', Madeleine's height of 90cm is well below average for a white British female child who was just a few days off her 4th birthday and, as such, would/should have been cause for concern to health practitioners as it can be an indication of failure to thrive which may have a physical and/or emotional cause. 

As stated, I have seen images purportedly of Madeleine in which the child appears to be unwell and looks to be afflicted by certain disorders of which I have named only one.  In other images of what is purported to be the same the child, there is an absence of any sign which may give rise to speculation about her health and wellbeing.

This post by tigger may be of interest to you https://jillhavern.forumotion.net/t8577p10-could-a-preplanned-adbuction-mean-the-same-as-a-staged-or-false-abduction#227618 and while I am not entirely convinced that, had she not been 'taken' at an early age, Madeleine was not long for this life, I don't feel able to discount the possibility that when her doting father described her 'almost perfect' appearance he was referring to that miniscule defect of the eye which is the coloboma that, against advice from the PJ - advice, I might add, that police forces around the world would give in similar circumstances and which one would have expected any concered parent to act upon - the McCanns were at pains to make known to the world as soon as was practically possible and which her loving mother subsequently claimed they 'didn't make much of'.   

Fwiw, to my eye the child shown tripping on the aircraft steps when boarding what is alleged to be the holiday flight on 29 April 2007 appears to have ginger hair not dissimilar in shade to that of Gerry McCann's natural hair colour and, regardless of whether or not she was afflicted with health issues, I remain of the opinon that after the birth of her twin siblings Madeleine became a scapegoat who was, effectively, excess baggage.

Yes, uT, Madeleine being a scapegoat.  One of the aspects of this case which upsets me is when I read of MBM being described as demanding, a screamer etc.  IMO most children are these at various times of their development and is quite normal behaviour.  Of course, any young child is going to be affected by the arrival of twin siblings and this is the time when they need more attention, not to be pushed aside and expected to behave as an adult would.  Some people are simply not suited to being parents and perhaps there is a reason why K&G were not able to conceive naturally.  Apologies if I appear harsh in my opinion of this issue.

Regarding MBM's hair colour, I commented a while ago about a photo of her with ginger hair.
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Re: Terminally McCanned?

Post by canada12 on 15.03.14 17:40

This picture has always made me feel a bit sad for Madeleine...
Here are the newly arrived twins, lined up for a photo in their carrycots... and there's Madeleine, parked on the end, to complete the picture of the offspring...and she looks so unhappy.



I'm the elder of two children and I well remember when my sister was born (I was four). I was very very resentful of not being the centre of attention anymore, and often had temper tantrums to try and get that attention back.

Consider Madeleine, who had to deal with double the effect.

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Re: Terminally McCanned?

Post by j.rob on 15.03.14 18:00

I also find that photo very sad. She looks miserable. I think that when the twins came along the McCanns had a ready-made family of a boy and a girl and Madeleine, unfortunately, became 'surplus to requirements'. I know that sounds horrible, but that is what I believe. This could especially be the case if Gerry is not the biological father. Even if he is (and there was a story in a foreign newspaper which claimed he wasn't, I do believe - but how accurate it is I have no idea) both parents may well have found Madeleine 'very difficult' as she had colic. And, given that imo they are both narcissistic, it must have been quite a shock having their first child. Especially one who, according to the McCanns, had a strong personality. 

It sounds to me as though the McCanns were not up to the challenge of parenting an 18 month year old child who would have needed a lot of time and attention when twins came along. It's hard enough having a child of around that age when one sibling comes along. The situation needs to be handled with sensitivity in order for the child not to feel usurped. But with twins it must be doubly difficult.

But given that the McCanns were well educated people, with supportive family networks on both sides and with a reasonable amount of money to employ extra help with child-care, I cannot see why they could not have coped as well as anyone else with the first few years. Once the twins had reached the age of around three, and Madeleine five, it would all have become a lot easier. 

But I do believe that Madeleine had become the family scapegoat. And we know how much the McCanns love a scapegoat and are inclined to either idolize or despise people (especially Kate). 

When you look at that photo you can see that, despite Kate's saccharine prose in her book, family life chez-McCann was not exactly a bed of roses. And Gerry did not seem particularly 'bonded' with Madeleine. Once the twins came along, he could have played a very important role with her. But - even on the family holiday - Gerry was out playing tennis at that all-important (and frankly exhausting) part of the evening when the children are winding down and getting ready for bed. 

All in my opinion, obviously.

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Re: Terminally McCanned?

Post by canada12 on 15.03.14 18:09

Agree with a lot of what you've said j.rob. And I remember that some members of the family - not sure if it was Kate's side or Gerry's - mentioning that at one point they were spending time with Kate to "help her look after the children" while Gerry was away working. If there's already a discussion about this elsewhere on the site, it would be great to revisit exactly what the details were. But to me, when I was reading this account, and reading between the lines, I got the impression that Kate really wasn't able to cope with looking after the children on her own. Which to me raises red flags about her emotional stability. Was she suffering from post-partum depression? Was she suffering from depression anyway? Were there any other emotional issues at work?

And I really have to question why they felt they needed to have more children in such a quick succession. One was enough of a handful. Why would you want another (or two?) so quickly?

One thought has occurred to me, and I'm not sure how valid it is. But if you have one child with a diagnosed disorder, and the only cure is a donation of blood or bone marrow, some parents have been known to have another child in order to provide a suitable donor for the first child. I wonder if the twins were conceived for that purpose...?

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Re: Terminally McCanned?

Post by juliet on 15.03.14 18:22

I don't think Madeleine had anything like Foetal Alcohol Syndrome but she did look unwell very often, with those bags under her eyes. She looked particularly unwell in the b/w family photo. She also often looked very unhappy. Questions include: why only one pic of newborn Madeleine ("so wanted, so precious!") which has Gerry holding the baby and Kate looking as if she had just popped by...not given birth.
Why no Christening pictures?
Why no pix that I can remember where she is having a birthday party or with little friends? Nearly always alone...
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Re: Terminally McCanned?

Post by kimHager on 15.03.14 20:31

Yeah the few pics we have seen really don't tell us much except Madeleine looks sad. I really have to wonder if maybe she was sick and doesn't look it.... You know I believe she got in their way she probably did help with the twins and that is what I think happened.She was alone with the babies and had an accident maybe she drowned or fell whatever it was I think she probably wasn't in the best of health .whatever happened I think she died alone with only the babies there. That is so so sad. But my opinion only

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Re: Terminally McCanned?

Post by Penfold on 15.03.14 20:36

canada12 wrote:One thought has occurred to me, and I'm not sure how valid it is. But if you have one child with a diagnosed disorder, and the only cure is a donation of blood or bone marrow, some parents have been known to have another child in order to provide a suitable donor for the first child. I wonder if the twins were conceived for that purpose...?
 Canada12  -I've been toying with that idea for a while now, but didn't feel confident enough to voice it.

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Re: Terminally McCanned?

Post by ultimaThule on 15.03.14 20:44

There is a photo of a child who is purported to be Madeleine on a see-saw, wearing ill-fitting clothes which look as if they've come out of a rag bag, and to my eye it appears the child may have FAS or Downs syndrome, juliet.  However, as has been remarked on by others and as appears to be the case to me, the images which are in the public domain and which are all purported to be Madeleine McCann seem to be of more than one child.

As for the 'supportive family network' referred to by j.rob, the clans McCann and Healy may have turned out in force to enjoy a free holiday lend their support in Luz but are we expected to believe that family members such as auntie Trish, a nurse, and uncle Phil, a teacher, regularly took leave of absence from their professions or spent numerous weekends commuting between Scotland and Leicestershire to lend a hand in Queniborough while Kate was immobilised for months prior to the birth of the twins, or that they continued to provide ad hoc childcare after they were born and the family moved to Rothley?  

In actuality, any 'help' K&G received from family prior to their eldest daughter being 'taken' appears to have consisted of Kate's parents making regular trips from Sale to Rothley, supplemented with occasional babysitting by uncle Brian Kennedy and his wife Janet who, conveniently, live in the village.

Neverthless, the close ties Gerry has with his in laws, together with any indebtedness he may have felt for their help with caring for his spouse and children, didn't prevent him despatching them, along with his own mother, back to Blighty within 3 days of their arriving in Luz to console the bereft couple and I suspect uncle Phil may have suffered the same fate had she not been under orders to remain in Ullapool until the holiday for umpteen family members to Turkey the following month. 

Similarly, we are led to believe that Kate successfully conceived Madeleine on the second round of IVF in the UK and was first time lucky with the twins when she received free IVF in Amsterdam little more than a year later.   How fortunate the couple's savings were not depleted by treatment which can often result in others finding themselves broke or in debt and in a state of continuing childlessness. 

As to why the couple chose to increase their family so quickly, canada12, I suspect 'free' is a word which is music to Gerry's ears and it was Kate's intention to have 6 children...
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