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A puzzling response from Jane Tanner....

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A puzzling response from Jane Tanner....

Post by Okeydokey on 01.03.14 2:24

From the Jane Tanner rogatory interview:

4078    “So what happened from then?”
Reply    “Erm, well I think I was in a bit of a, I mean, obviously, erm, the next thing I can remember is seeing Kate and Fiona, they came running from the direction of Kate’s flat, say sort of along the, sort of it’s, I’ll try and describe how it is, but as you come into the flats there’s sort of a passageway and there’s flats above so there’s a roof and there’s a passageway, it’s really badly described, but they came running along there and they were shouting ‘Madeleine’ and they were like looking in the stairwell and what have you.  And Fi started running upstairs and that’s when I ran to Fi and said what I thought, you know, I said ‘I think I’ve seen somebody’.  I didn’t want to say to Kate at that point, which might sound odd now, you know, ‘Oh why wouldn’t you say straight away to Kate’, but, you know, the thought of telling the mother of a child that you might have seen being carried away is, it’s too horrible to even say.  So I just said to Fi, erm, you know, ‘I think I might have seen somebody a bit odd when I came back to do one of the checks’.  And I don’t know whether she, I mean, she was just sort of like, I don’t know whether she took it in properly, but, erm, and then they just carried on, carried on the searching.  They were sort of running around, I mean, I just stayed, erm, me and Rachael just stayed with, in our own, but we were sort of out in the alley, in the sort of stairwell outside our rooms, and we were sort of staying with the kids at that point, so we weren’t actually involved in any physical running around, searching
4078    “One of the questions here is why didn’t you, we kind of already have covered this, why didn’t you warn the MCCANN’S immediately about the man you saw, assuming that because you didn’t see the relevance of it at that point?”

And later...

Reply    “Well I thought Gerry knew because he was there and, well I didn’t want to tell Kate within sort of ten minutes of Madeleine being missing because it just didn’t seem the right thing to say to her to say oh I’ve just seen somebody walking off with potentially somebody err and then after that I hardly, as I say I thought Gerry, Gerry was there when I was talking to the PJ so he would have known from that and after that I hardly saw them, or I never saw them in a state when I felt I could you know raise it so to speak.”


Any observations?

Interesting from what she says that neither she nor anyone else informed Gerry or Kate of this vital information - she is stating Gerry learnt it wehn he heard her talk to the PJ - when was that? An hour or more later? 

Is any of this credible?

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Re: A puzzling response from Jane Tanner....

Post by canada12 on 01.03.14 2:45

Why is she spending so much time describing the geography of the flat and the building? Instead of directly answering the question.

If she'd genuinely seen someone that she believed was important, she wouldn't be dithering about descriptions of the building. She'd be telling the police exactly what she saw and how she recalled it. Her dithering over the physical description of the building and describing how people were running around tells me she's trying to delay so she can try to make her sighting seem more credible in her own mind, and then describe it on the same terms as something real she knows about. So, talk about the building, the hallways, the roof, the people she's seen running around, and then slip in "Oh I've seen someone" - and everything that follows from that is her attempt to link up a real vision in her mind with something not real. IMO.

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Re: A puzzling response from Jane Tanner....

Post by Briohazard on 01.03.14 4:08

What I find strange from that response is Jane never mentioned that Gerry was talking to Jez when she saw the 'abductor'

I would have thought it natural for Jane to assume Gerry or Jez saw the guy too, and direct Fiona to further question Gerry. 

What I'd like to know is when was the colouring book 'timeline' was written and/or handed to the PJ? Because Jane's 'encounter' sure as day made it on both of them. 

I cannot work out from Janes response if Racheal was already with her at the time or not. She kind of just pops up. I also cannot work out from Jane's response if she was already aware of Madeleines disappearance or not. She makes no effort to put forth any description of any 'gut wrenching shock', or any desire to run straight back into her own flat to check her children again. In that situation I would have a hawk eye on my kids to the second and not let them out of my sight. 

I'm going to re read Tanners rog. I've just had a sick feeling about something and want to double check.

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Re: A puzzling response from Jane Tanner....

Post by kimHager on 01.03.14 4:26

Briohazard please let us know if u find something else... Jane Tanner has always held a vital key to those mystery I've felt. I have to reread the tapas statements over and over trying to take out the Erms and the brick a brack to make their statements seem more normal or at least a bit more understanda

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Re: A puzzling response from Jane Tanner....

Post by suzyjohnson on 01.03.14 9:55

@Briohazard wrote:
What I'd like to know is when was the colouring book 'timeline' was written and/or handed to the PJ? Because Jane's 'encounter' sure as day made it on both of them. 

Reply: 

The colouring-book timelines were written while the tapas group were waiting for the PJ to arrive on May 3rd. I don't know if they were handed over or whether the PJ just took possession of them.

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Re: A puzzling response from Jane Tanner....

Post by Guest on 01.03.14 9:59

Briohazard I wonder also why Jane t doesn't say that jez also would have seen tannerman?
I can vaguely remember Jez W statement where he mentions that he wasn't certain of the time and I think I remember him saying it was about 9pm that he Met gerry? He also appeared to receive a lot of pushy calls from gerry on return to UK. Gerry really seemed keen on moving the time forward on his meeting with jez.
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Re: A puzzling response from Jane Tanner....

Post by sami on 01.03.14 10:38

@suzyjohnson wrote:
@Briohazard wrote:
What I'd like to know is when was the colouring book 'timeline' was written and/or handed to the PJ? Because Jane's 'encounter' sure as day made it on both of them. 

Reply: 

The colouring-book timelines were written while the tapas group were waiting for the PJ to arrive on May 3rd. I don't know if they were handed over or whether the PJ just took possession of them.


From Russell O'Briens Rogatory Statement on McCannfiles.com:




Clarified who made the time line handed to Portuguese officers- I had written it- both copies, in consultation with Dave and Gerry. It was written 02:00-03:00 hours in Gerry’s room. It was my idea a form of gathering information and putting things in order. This was after the searches which were again conducted around 01:00-02:00hours. (page nine)

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Re: A puzzling response from Jane Tanner....

Post by Cristobell on 01.03.14 10:43

@Okeydokey wrote:From the Jane Tanner rogatory interview:

4078    “So what happened from then?”
Reply    “Erm, well I think I was in a bit of a, I mean, obviously, erm, the next thing I can remember is seeing Kate and Fiona, they came running from the direction of Kate’s flat, say sort of along the, sort of it’s, I’ll try and describe how it is, but as you come into the flats there’s sort of a passageway and there’s flats above so there’s a roof and there’s a passageway, it’s really badly described, but they came running along there and they were shouting ‘Madeleine’ and they were like looking in the stairwell and what have you.  And Fi started running upstairs and that’s when I ran to Fi and said what I thought, you know, I said ‘I think I’ve seen somebody’.  I didn’t want to say to Kate at that point, which might sound odd now, you know, ‘Oh why wouldn’t you say straight away to Kate’, but, you know, the thought of telling the mother of a child that you might have seen being carried away is, it’s too horrible to even say.  So I just said to Fi, erm, you know, ‘I think I might have seen somebody a bit odd when I came back to do one of the checks’.  And I don’t know whether she, I mean, she was just sort of like, I don’t know whether she took it in properly, but, erm, and then they just carried on, carried on the searching.  They were sort of running around, I mean, I just stayed, erm, me and Rachael just stayed with, in our own, but we were sort of out in the alley, in the sort of stairwell outside our rooms, and we were sort of staying with the kids at that point, so we weren’t actually involved in any physical running around, searching
4078    “One of the questions here is why didn’t you, we kind of already have covered this, why didn’t you warn the MCCANN’S immediately about the man you saw, assuming that because you didn’t see the relevance of it at that point?”

And later...

Reply    “Well I thought Gerry knew because he was there and, well I didn’t want to tell Kate within sort of ten minutes of Madeleine being missing because it just didn’t seem the right thing to say to her to say oh I’ve just seen somebody walking off with potentially somebody err and then after that I hardly, as I say I thought Gerry, Gerry was there when I was talking to the PJ so he would have known from that and after that I hardly saw them, or I never saw them in a state when I felt I could you know raise it so to speak.”


Any observations?

Interesting from what she says that neither she nor anyone else informed Gerry or Kate of this vital information - she is stating Gerry learnt it wehn he heard her talk to the PJ - when was that? An hour or more later? 

Is any of this credible?



Its not in the least bit credible OkeyDokey, it was vital information, particularly for those searching, all she had to say was 'he went that way'. The PJ dismissed her evidence immediately, and the faux police conference with Frankenstein's monster carrying off a child, came directly from Team McCann.

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Re: A puzzling response from Jane Tanner....

Post by Hicks on 01.03.14 10:44

In my opinion the JT statement is a work of pure fiction. I doubt you will get anywhere by trying to understand events that evening based on it.

If these witnesses are to be believed, and I do believe hen, then it proves the JT GM were lying. JW himself did not know the correct time he met GM in the street, it was quite possibly a lot earlier.

Please scroll down the last few paragraphs. The witness on her balcony with a whiskey did NOT see anyone in the road at 9.15.



http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/400796/Mystery-couple-seen-going-into-McCanns-flat-on-night-before-sobbing-Madeleine-disappeared.
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Re: A puzzling response from Jane Tanner....

Post by suzyjohnson on 01.03.14 10:45

@sami wrote:

From Russell O'Briens Rogatory Statement on McCannfiles.com:




Clarified who made the time line handed to Portuguese officers- I had written it- both copies, in consultation with Dave and Gerry. It was written 02:00-03:00 hours in Gerry’s room. It was my idea a form of gathering information and putting things in order. This was after the searches which were again conducted around 01:00-02:00hours. (page nine)
Thanks Sami

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Re: A puzzling response from Jane Tanner....

Post by Okeydokey on 01.03.14 10:54

@Briohazard wrote:What I find strange from that response is Jane never mentioned that Gerry was talking to Jez when she saw the 'abductor'

I would have thought it natural for Jane to assume Gerry or Jez saw the guy too, and direct Fiona to further question Gerry. 

What I'd like to know is when was the colouring book 'timeline' was written and/or handed to the PJ? Because Jane's 'encounter' sure as day made it on both of them. 

I cannot work out from Janes response if Racheal was already with her at the time or not. She kind of just pops up. I also cannot work out from Jane's response if she was already aware of Madeleines disappearance or not. She makes no effort to put forth any description of any 'gut wrenching shock', or any desire to run straight back into her own flat to check her children again. In that situation I would have a hawk eye on my kids to the second and not let them out of my sight. 

I'm going to re read Tanners rog. I've just had a sick feeling about something and want to double check.

Excellent point about how and when the JT sighting made it on to the colouring book timelines.

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Re: A puzzling response from Jane Tanner....

Post by Okeydokey on 01.03.14 10:56

@suzyjohnson wrote:
@Briohazard wrote:
What I'd like to know is when was the colouring book 'timeline' was written and/or handed to the PJ? Because Jane's 'encounter' sure as day made it on both of them. 

Reply: 

The colouring-book timelines were written while the tapas group were waiting for the PJ to arrive on May 3rd. I don't know if they were handed over or whether the PJ just took possession of them.

But that doesn't fit in with JT's account that Gerry heard it first when she spoke to the PJ. She certainly gives that impression, that that was where he heard it first - why would she do that if he had heard it earlier?

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Re: A puzzling response from Jane Tanner....

Post by Okeydokey on 01.03.14 10:58

@sami wrote:
@suzyjohnson wrote:
@Briohazard wrote:
What I'd like to know is when was the colouring book 'timeline' was written and/or handed to the PJ? Because Jane's 'encounter' sure as day made it on both of them. 

Reply: 

The colouring-book timelines were written while the tapas group were waiting for the PJ to arrive on May 3rd. I don't know if they were handed over or whether the PJ just took possession of them.


From Russell O'Briens Rogatory Statement on McCannfiles.com:




Clarified who made the time line handed to Portuguese officers- I had written it- both copies, in consultation with Dave and Gerry. It was written 02:00-03:00 hours in Gerry’s room. It was my idea a form of gathering information and putting things in order. This was after the searches which were again conducted around 01:00-02:00hours. (page nine)

OK, well if that is their version, that is more consistent with JT's account that Gerry first heard of her sighting of the "abduction" when she spoke to the PJ.

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Re: A puzzling response from Jane Tanner....

Post by Okeydokey on 01.03.14 11:05

@Hicks wrote:In my opinion the JT statement is a work of pure fiction. I doubt you will get anywhere by trying to understand events that evening based on it.

If these witnesses are to be believed, and I do believe hen, then it proves the JT GM were lying. JW himself did not know the correct time he met GM in the street, it was quite possibly a lot earlier.

Please scroll down the last few paragraphs. The witness on her balcony with a whiskey did NOT see anyone in the road at 9.15.



http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/400796/Mystery-couple-seen-going-into-McCanns-flat-on-night-before-sobbing-Madeleine-disappeared.

Rather than the credibility of the narrative itself, I'm more interested here in JT's account of how she reacted to hearing of the "abduction" and what she did in terms of informing people of her "sighting" - or indeed acting upon it.

I don't find her account of how she reacted at all credible. Surely, in the circumstances, the first priority would have been to inform Kate and Gerry and organise a search in the direction the "abductor" was heading.  That would have felt like a life and death matter for anyone in possession of that knowledge in my view. And even if she didn't do that, why didn't the others, once they had heard of the sighting from her. Instead, JT tells us herself that the search was just going round and round - i.e. was disorganised. She didn't have to say that by the way - I get the feeling that was one of those unintentional reveals.

I have to say as well that this is one of the softest police interviews you could ever read. Why did they not follow up on these issues? They followed up on plenty of other stuff.

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Re: A puzzling response from Jane Tanner....

Post by sami on 01.03.14 11:24

Having read to the end of the rog interview, my understanding is that Russell claims he took it upon himself to write a timeline and did so, carrying it around.  Later then the second timeline was born, the one signed Gerald. 
It's difficult to understand but it seems he claims the first was written around the time the GNR first arrived.  He is asked about the time difference between the two versions and says it was not long, maybe half an hour.  That cannot be right though, because the GNR arriving and 1 or 2 am is longer than half an hour.  


1578    “You’re saying the one with ‘Gerald’ written on it, was the final document”?
Reply    “Well it was certainly second one, I said I think I was writing this down in a hurry when I”.
1578    “It came after this, this first one”?
Reply    “It came after this one yeah, yeah”.
1578    “So the one that doesn’t bare the name of ‘Gerald’.”
Reply    “Is the earlier one”.
1578    “Was the first attempt, the earlier attempt as you say.  When was this drafted up”?
Reply    “Erm this was drafted er around the time that the initial pair of Officers from the PJ came to 5A (inaudible) early in the morning of the fourth of May, two thousand and seven so erm I can certainly recall writing some of this, I think perhaps the neat, maybe the neater version erm sat down at the table in Gerry’s flat with Gerry erm Dave PAYNE and at least at some stage of it, the two Officers from the, from the PJ”.
1578    “What would have been the time difference between these two documents”?
Reply    “Er that I’m not too sure, I think what, what essentially I’m doing, is I’m, I’ve written something here fairly quickly for myself and then I’ve looked at it and thought it’s, it’s not actually gonna be useful to hand to anyone to read other than me, so I think they’re probably not that far, I’ve written that and then I’ve sat down, perhaps I was writing this with that being on my knee or something and never sat down, but I don’t, I don’t recall the time difference but, but we’re looking at from what I describe about my activities in the run up to this, to these being within you know, a short space of time, half an hour, maybe even less, I don’t think I wrote this, had it in my pocket for a night, the other thing that makes me think that is, is probably the front of the back cover of a book”.

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Re: A puzzling response from Jane Tanner....

Post by SixMillionQuid on 01.03.14 11:52

According to Mrs Payne, Kate was not with her when she FIRST saw Jane Tanner and Jane FIRST told her about the man she saw

Reply
 'No, it was during that time and I think after I'd been in the apartment, I think the furthest I went away from the apartment at that point was just to go to the stairwell to check, because I thought nobody had checked, you know, up, going up in the building to see if she'd gone up there, and I'd started to go up the stairs and then Jane had come out and said 'Oh Rachael's already checked' or somebody else was up there. And, at that point, erm, Jane had sort of rushed out and had said, you know, quietly, sort of almost pulling me away from Kate's door, erm, 'I saw a man carrying a child'. And the horror and realisation I think of what she had seen was quite evident at that point. And I took it as serious at that point, at what she was implying, that she thought she might have seen Madeleine. Erm, and I, in the panic, I just said at that point, I said, well the Police hadn't arrived, I said 'We've just got to tell the Police. We've got to tell the Police what you've seen'. And didn't' say anything to Kate or Gerry about what Jane had told me at that point'.


 1485
 'Did you make a conscious decision not to tell them''
 
 Reply
 'It wasn't a conscious decision, but Kate's, I was just there with Kate trying to be a support and it was no way appropriate to be saying, you know, 'A man's carried Madeleine off''.


At that point the police had not arrived but Mrs Payne was aware of the implications of what Jane had said. And when Kate, as arguido, was asked about her searching after the alarm was raised:

--- Asked if JANE told her about having seen a man with a child, on that night, she did not respond.

--- Asked how the authorities were contacted and that police force was alerted, she did not respond.

--- Asked, during the searches already with the police presence [after the police arrived], in what places she went [and] looked for MADELEINE, how and in what way [manner], she did not respond. Asked why the twins did not wake up during this search, or when they went to the floor above, she did not respond.


But Im sure she answered these questions in her book. Gerry stated in his statement of 10 May 2007 that he heard about the abductor at 1am on 04 May 2007 from Russel who it is assumed heard from Jane. According to Russel, after he's done his massive sweep search of the resort and come back to the apartments:

As I said before, I think I probably went round to Jane before I’d done this, this sort of leg to the beach and back, but it may have been, it may have been that I actually went round at this point.  And, erm, I went round to the, you know, went round to the room, erm, and, from recollection, Jane was stood in the doorway, I think almost certainly with Rachael, possibly with Fiona as well.  Erm, and, you know, I went up and she was, you know, clearly very, very distressed, erm, just, erm, you know, phew, you know, almost, almost sort of shaking, and I, you know, I just thought it was just part of the, you know, the shock that we were all kind of experiencing, and I gave her a quick hug and she said, you know, ‘I think I saw someone.

I think I saw someone taking Madeleine away’ and she sort of told me what, erm, what, you know, what she, what she had witnessed when she’d done her check, but, you know, hadn’t put too much weight on it because you know, until, until your suspicions are raised, you know, why would you, why would you.


So the GNR had not arrived yet and Mrs Payne, Russel and Jane all standing around the apartment not saying a word to Kate or Gerry about the abductor. But then there's the problem with those hand written timelimes that was prepared by the T9 http://www.mccannfiles.com/id30.html . After his third search and returning to the McCanns apartments Russel states:


Erm, and at some stage sort of quietened off and the, the PJ sat down with, you know, came in and sat down with Gerry, the recollections of what happened there are relatively dim now, but the only ones I can really recall was, although it was prompted by what you showed me on Tuesday, was that we were writing on the back of a piece of card, I thought it was a cereal box but obviously it was a children’s book, a very kind of, very, very, draft idea of what happened in the hour and, erm, and what state the windows and the shutters had been in and I think I, that was, that was written with me sat at the table in Kate and Gerry’s room.  Gerry by this point had certainly calmed down but was, his head was just on the table, you know, like that, he was just staring at the, at the table, very, very quiet and very, very low.  Dave PAYNE was in there at least at one point early on.  And I think possibly Sylvia this Housekeeper, I think she came in, I think she was offering to translate at some point.

Bearing in mind he's conducted three searches of the resort come back, written a timeline twice and consulted nobody about their timings. How did he know whether Matt went into apartment 5A or not on his second check? When Jane went relieve him he was still in his own apartment. The hand writing in both timelines are different. He says:

So I’ve probably, I’ve probably written it, thought that’s rubbish, even I can barely read it, let’s start again, I don’t think there’s much time difference

If that's the case why put "Gerald" name at the bottom of the second timeline and not his own name "Russel"? And this is contrary to what Mr McCann states, as Russel hasn't said he told Mr McCann about the abductors description - he doesn't mention speaking to Gerry.
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Re: A puzzling response from Jane Tanner....

Post by Okeydokey on 01.03.14 13:49

@sami wrote:Having read to the end of the rog interview, my understanding is that Russell claims he took it upon himself to write a timeline and did so, carrying it around.  Later then the second timeline was born, the one signed Gerald. 
It's difficult to understand but it seems he claims the first was written around the time the GNR first arrived.  He is asked about the time difference between the two versions and says it was not long, maybe half an hour.  That cannot be right though, because the GNR arriving and 1 or 2 am is longer than half an hour.  


1578    “You’re saying the one with ‘Gerald’ written on it, was the final document”?
Reply    “Well it was certainly second one, I said I think I was writing this down in a hurry when I”.
1578    “It came after this, this first one”?
Reply    “It came after this one yeah, yeah”.
1578    “So the one that doesn’t bare the name of ‘Gerald’.”
Reply    “Is the earlier one”.
1578    “Was the first attempt, the earlier attempt as you say.  When was this drafted up”?
Reply    “Erm this was drafted er around the time that the initial pair of Officers from the PJ came to 5A (inaudible) early in the morning of the fourth of May, two thousand and seven so erm I can certainly recall writing some of this, I think perhaps the neat, maybe the neater version erm sat down at the table in Gerry’s flat with Gerry erm Dave PAYNE and at least at some stage of it, the two Officers from the, from the PJ”.
1578    “What would have been the time difference between these two documents”?
Reply    “Er that I’m not too sure, I think what, what essentially I’m doing, is I’m, I’ve written something here fairly quickly for myself and then I’ve looked at it and thought it’s, it’s not actually gonna be useful to hand to anyone to read other than me, so I think they’re probably not that far, I’ve written that and then I’ve sat down, perhaps I was writing this with that being on my knee or something and never sat down, but I don’t, I don’t recall the time difference but, but we’re looking at from what I describe about my activities in the run up to this, to these being within you know, a short space of time, half an hour, maybe even less, I don’t think I wrote this, had it in my pocket for a night, the other thing that makes me think that is, is probably the front of the back cover of a book”.

You say GNR but he's referring to the PJ - is that not a rather crucial difference as I understand GNR and PJ arrived at different time (i.e. PJ arrived later on).

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Re: A puzzling response from Jane Tanner....

Post by Guest on 01.03.14 13:52

"Well I thought Gerry knew because he was there"


Could this actually mean JT thought GM had seen the eggman also?
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Re: A puzzling response from Jane Tanner....

Post by Okeydokey on 01.03.14 13:58

@SixMillionQuid wrote:According to Mrs Payne, Kate was not with her when she FIRST saw Jane Tanner and Jane FIRST told her about the man she saw

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 'No, it was during that time and I think after I'd been in the apartment, I think the furthest I went away from the apartment at that point was just to go to the stairwell to check, because I thought nobody had checked, you know, up, going up in the building to see if she'd gone up there, and I'd started to go up the stairs and then Jane had come out and said 'Oh Rachael's already checked' or somebody else was up there. And, at that point, erm, Jane had sort of rushed out and had said, you know, quietly, sort of almost pulling me away from Kate's door, erm, 'I saw a man carrying a child'. And the horror and realisation I think of what she had seen was quite evident at that point. And I took it as serious at that point, at what she was implying, that she thought she might have seen Madeleine. Erm, and I, in the panic, I just said at that point, I said, well the Police hadn't arrived, I said 'We've just got to tell the Police. We've got to tell the Police what you've seen'. And didn't' say anything to Kate or Gerry about what Jane had told me at that point'.


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 'Did you make a conscious decision not to tell them''
 
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 'It wasn't a conscious decision, but Kate's, I was just there with Kate trying to be a support and it was no way appropriate to be saying, you know, 'A man's carried Madeleine off''.


At that point the police had not arrived but Mrs Payne was aware of the implications of what Jane had said. And when Kate, as arguido, was asked about her searching after the alarm was raised:

--- Asked if JANE told her about having seen a man with a child, on that night, she did not respond.

--- Asked how the authorities were contacted and that police force was alerted, she did not respond.

--- Asked, during the searches already with the police presence [after the police arrived], in what places she went [and] looked for MADELEINE, how and in what way [manner], she did not respond. Asked why the twins did not wake up during this search, or when they went to the floor above, she did not respond.


But Im sure she answered these questions in her book. Gerry stated in his statement of 10 May 2007 that he heard about the abductor at 1am on 04 May 2007 from Russel who it is assumed heard from Jane. According to Russel, after he's done his massive sweep search of the resort and come back to the apartments:

As I said before, I think I probably went round to Jane before I’d done this, this sort of leg to the beach and back, but it may have been, it may have been that I actually went round at this point.  And, erm, I went round to the, you know, went round to the room, erm, and, from recollection, Jane was stood in the doorway, I think almost certainly with Rachael, possibly with Fiona as well.  Erm, and, you know, I went up and she was, you know, clearly very, very distressed, erm, just, erm, you know, phew, you know, almost, almost sort of shaking, and I, you know, I just thought it was just part of the, you know, the shock that we were all kind of experiencing, and I gave her a quick hug and she said, you know, ‘I think I saw someone.

I think I saw someone taking Madeleine away’ and she sort of told me what, erm, what, you know, what she, what she had witnessed when she’d done her check, but, you know, hadn’t put too much weight on it because you know, until, until your suspicions are raised, you know, why would you, why would you.


So the GNR had not arrived yet and Mrs Payne, Russel and Jane all standing around the apartment not saying a word to Kate or Gerry about the abductor. But then there's the problem with those hand written timelimes that was prepared by the T9 http://www.mccannfiles.com/id30.html . After his third search and returning to the McCanns apartments Russel states:


Erm, and at some stage sort of quietened off and the, the PJ sat down with, you know, came in and sat down with Gerry, the recollections of what happened there are relatively dim now, but the only ones I can really recall was, although it was prompted by what you showed me on Tuesday, was that we were writing on the back of a piece of card, I thought it was a cereal box but obviously it was a children’s book, a very kind of, very, very, draft idea of what happened in the hour and, erm, and what state the windows and the shutters had been in and I think I, that was, that was written with me sat at the table in Kate and Gerry’s room.  Gerry by this point had certainly calmed down but was, his head was just on the table, you know, like that, he was just staring at the, at the table, very, very quiet and very, very low.  Dave PAYNE was in there at least at one point early on.  And I think possibly Sylvia this Housekeeper, I think she came in, I think she was offering to translate at some point.

Bearing in mind he's conducted three searches of the resort come back, written a timeline twice and consulted nobody about their timings. How did he know whether Matt went into apartment 5A or not on his second check? When Jane went relieve him he was still in his own apartment. The hand writing in both timelines are different. He says:

So I’ve probably, I’ve probably written it, thought that’s rubbish, even I can barely read it, let’s start again, I don’t think there’s much time difference

If that's the case why put "Gerald" name at the bottom of the second timeline and not his own name "Russel"? And this is contrary to what Mr McCann states, as Russel hasn't said he told Mr McCann about the abductors description - he doesn't mention speaking to Gerry.

To use an old fashioned word, it's a cockamamie version of events isn't it?

Thanks for that - some very telling observations.

I think a key point is that once you know about the alleged abduction sighting (by a trusted friend) surely that would influence the direction of your search.  Notice also how passive all the Tapas 9 are when they "hear" about the sighting from JT.  No one is saying "I was amazed! I immediately asked her where she'd seen them and in what direction they were going, whether he got in a car with Madeleine etc etc" .

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Re: A puzzling response from Jane Tanner....

Post by sami on 01.03.14 14:07

@Okeydokey wrote:You say GNR but he's referring to the PJ - is that not a rather crucial difference as I understand GNR and PJ arrived at different time (i.e. PJ arrived later on).

I'm repeating what he said earlier, he referenced the GNR. The statement is too long and dis-jointed to copy and paste here, it will only serve to make the thread difficult to read.  The discussion about the timelines crop up in different parts of his statement. If you read it in its entirety you will see what I mean.

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Re: A puzzling response from Jane Tanner....

Post by SixMillionQuid on 01.03.14 15:11

@Okeydokey wrote:
To use an old fashioned word, it's a cockamamie version of events isn't it?

Thanks for that - some very telling observations.

I think a key point is that once you know about the alleged abduction sighting (by a trusted friend) surely that would influence the direction of your search.  Notice also how passive all the Tapas 9 are when they "hear" about the sighting from JT.  No one is saying "I was amazed! I immediately asked her where she'd seen them and in what direction they were going, whether he got in a car with Madeleine etc etc" .
Yes they're all doing their bit according to the pre-planned script, so there's no need to sound surprised at this devastating news.
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Re: A puzzling response from Jane Tanner....

Post by CynicAl on 01.03.14 15:34

What if Tannerman IS real? But far from being prime suspect number one, what if he was a last minute afterthought, an expediency? What if the group was increasingly turning to panic in the quiet town where a 'prime suspect' had to be plausible at the earliest? Perhaps JT 'suddenly' remembered having seen some guy carrying his kid and she and the group just found it easier to focus on a real but unrelated sighting than rely on their ability to tell a common lie, collectively pointing away from themselves, but with nothing tangible to deflect attention toward? What if the need for Tannerman is simply that he's the only tangible part of the story for the T7 which actually presents an authentic mystery to give the illusion of chasing? Maybe the importance of SY's revelation moment is that literally they eliminated from enquiry the only 'real' thread of the reported T7 story which was not, in itself,corrupted by any contact with the T7? Perhaps the importance is that now all the T7 have to go on is their ability to corroborate an elaborate fiction with continuity and authenticity? Is it possible that the objectively insignificant ruling out of this character was conducted with such fanfare because the police, with listening devices at the ready, might have wanted to hear whether a few phones suddenly started ringing each other to attempt to collaborate a propping up of the crumbling pillars of their seven year old diversion? Just a thought.

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Re: A puzzling response from Jane Tanner....

Post by Guest on 01.03.14 16:01

@CynicAl wrote: [...] Is it possible that the objectively insignificant ruling out of this character was conducted with such fanfare because the police, with listening devices at the ready, might have wanted to hear whether a few phones suddenly started ringing each other to attempt to collaborate a propping up of the crumbling pillars of their seven year old diversion? Just a thought.
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That's indeed, what a renowned Dutch criminal journalist said the day after CW: it's a fishing expedition ...
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Re: A puzzling response from Jane Tanner....

Post by Research_Reader on 01.03.14 18:16



@SixMillionQuid wrote:
 '...I was just there with Kate trying to be a support and it was no way appropriate to be saying, you know, 'A man's carried Madeleine off''.


So there we have it folks. Jane Tanner's guide to abduction-scene etiquette. 

Remember, if you are ever in a group of people who are searching for a missing toddler, even if there are large numbers of people searching through the wee dark hours of the night, even if every single lost minute means the toddler is less likely to be found alive, under no circumstances let on that you've seen the person who took the toddler and you know the direction they headed off in. 

It just wouldn't be appropriate.

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Re: A puzzling response from Jane Tanner....

Post by Okeydokey on 01.03.14 18:21

dantezebu wrote:"Well I thought Gerry knew because he was there"


Could this actually mean JT thought GM had seen the eggman also?

No - I think she is referring there to GM being present at the first PJ interview of her. It's not very clear but I am pretty sure that is what she means.

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