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Was Kate alone when she discovered Madeleine Missing?

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Re: Was Kate alone when she discovered Madeleine Missing?

Post by sami on 26.02.14 21:04

It was repaired on 1st, iirc.

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Re: Was Kate alone when she discovered Madeleine Missing?

Post by justathought on 26.02.14 21:10

Sharoni wrote...
Cat became very close to the McCanns.  There are photos of her with the family in Portugal, she even visited them at home in Rothley.

Madeleines disappearance was obviously very upsetting but even so, the reaction from Cat Baker was way over what you would expect from a nanny who had known her for just a few days.


Surely a bit of a "red flag"? Cat B appears to be the only non Tapas individual welcomed into the TMCCann fold? The first and only "outsider" and completely out of keeping with how TMCCann operate. TMMCann do things for reasons and Cat would not have been welcomed into the fold to ease her pain as to events.

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Re: Was Kate alone when she discovered Madeleine Missing?

Post by kimHager on 26.02.14 21:39

So.. I believe yes Gerry and Kate were together hence the "when we found her"comment they made in one interview I remember. I didn't know there was another Madeleine there that week? **could she be one of the look alikes that didn't look alike? **sorry I'm just sorting it out in my head

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Re: Was Kate alone when she discovered Madeleine Missing?

Post by Hicks on 26.02.14 21:49

@kimHager wrote:So.. I believe yes Gerry and Kate were together hence the "when we found her"comment they made in one interview I remember. I didn't know there was another Madeleine there that week?  **could she be one of the look alikes that didn't look alike? **sorry I'm just sorting it out in my head
Are you sure there was 'another' child called Madeleine? never knew that.
There was a day early on in the week that Madeleine was signed into the crèche for 15 minutes only, in the afternoon. What day was that?
Could this be the day that the McCann's needed to use a substitute?
Why bother to take M to the crèche for only 15 minutes?
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Re: Was Kate alone when she discovered Madeleine Missing?

Post by Guest on 26.02.14 21:53

@Hicks wrote:
Are you sure there was 'another' child called Madeleine? never knew that.

That is the claim being made. The child in question has been explicitly identified on Twitter.
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kate alone

Post by travis macbickle on 26.02.14 21:57

@Hicks wrote:
@kimHager wrote:So.. I believe yes Gerry and Kate were together hence the "when we found her"comment they made in one interview I remember. I didn't know there was another Madeleine there that week?  **could she be one of the look alikes that didn't look alike? **sorry I'm just sorting it out in my head
Are you sure there was 'another' child called Madeleine? never knew that.
There was a day early on in the week that Madeleine was signed into the crèche for 15 minutes only, in the afternoon. What day was that?
Could this be the day that the McCann's needed to use a substitute?
Why bother to take M to the crèche for only 15 minutes?
madelene r????r,friend of elizabeth naylor. it was  the afternoon of monday 30th april.maybe she was having a tantrum.maybe dp wanted to see her!

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Re: Was Kate alone when she discovered Madeleine Missing?

Post by Guest on 26.02.14 22:02

I've just had a 'moment' as well Clay (I am a fan of your posts by the way  clapping )

Could she have been sedated on the plane over to Faro and it all went wrong and she never woke up from the sedation?

Hence those videos of her going up the plane steps (whichever plane that was) and on the airport bus - we all know the Mccanns don't show us anything without a reason behind it.

Hence MBM's death on the 28th and nearly a week to plan the faked abduction.

Hence RM's swift return to P de Luz

I would have thought that if MBM was a lively 3 year old then a plane trip would be an utter nightmare, especially with two two-year olds as well. 


I have always thought that her death/dispearance was planned much earlier than this from the UK due to the sheer number of connections that seemed to exist between everyone that was in/around P de Luz at the same time, I dunno.


What does anyone think?  Are there any accounts of their arrival from Faro to P de Luz apart from Kate's journals and bewk?

All in my opinion of course.
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Re: Was Kate alone when she discovered Madeleine Missing?

Post by Guest on 26.02.14 22:19

BlackCatBoogie wrote:

I would have thought that if MBM was a lively 3 year old then a plane trip would be an utter nightmare, especially with two two-year olds as well. 


Better people than me have commented on M's somewhat static performance on the airport bus video. Frankly I don't know what to make of that. Could have been filmed anywhere really.

Said it many, many times before but I would love to see the CCTV of them at Faro airport.
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Re: Was Kate alone when she discovered Madeleine Missing?

Post by ultimaThule on 26.02.14 22:38

On my monitor the child who tripped up the airplane steps looked to have ginger hair. 

I'm definitely in the camp which has death occuring prior to 3 May and, given that the website was registered in 2006, it appears entirely within the realms of possibility that the 'disappearance' was planned before the holiday

Donegal and Burgau appear to be significant, as does the alleged sighting of the McCanns with twins and Madeleine on an Algarve beach cEaster 2007. 

I shall be more than a tad peeved if 3 years and £7million+++ results in a trial which alleges death due to accidental injury followed by panic and concealment of the body as, IMO, the principal charge can only be murder.  yes
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Re: Was Kate alone when she discovered Madeleine Missing?

Post by Guest on 26.02.14 22:45

@ultimaThule wrote:On my monitor the child who tripped up the airplane steps looked to have ginger hair. 

I'm definitely in the camp which has death occuring prior to 3 May and, given that the website was registered in 2006, it appears entirely within the realms of possibility that the 'disappearance' was planned before the holiday

Donegal and Burgau appear to be significant, as does the alleged sighting of the McCanns with twins and Madeleine on an Algarve beach cEaster 2007. 

I shall be more than a tad peeved if 3 years and £7million+++ results in a trial which alleges death due to accidental injury followed by panic and concealment of the body as, IMO, the principal charge can only be murder.  yes
Eh? Am I correct, Ultima, in reading that the Find Madeleine website was registered in 2006?! Or is it to another website you refer?

Not for the the first time studying this case, I feel like I've entered a parallel universe...
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Re: Was Kate alone when she discovered Madeleine Missing?

Post by ultimaThule on 26.02.14 23:08

I'm not referring to another website, DeeCoy.  All of the relevant information is on a thread on this forum which I'll try to locate at some point, but not tonight as I've had a long day. 

When re-entering reality from a trip to the parallel universe I always experience an abrupt jolt from the shock of knowing that, despiite IMO there having been more than sufficient evidence for them to have been charged some years ago, these people are still at large.
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Re: Was Kate alone when she discovered Madeleine Missing?

Post by Guest on 26.02.14 23:42

My God.

Thank you, ultima, I would appreciate that link. What possible conclusion can be reached from this other than that child was the victim of even greater evil than I already thought? I agree, how on earth are they still free?
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Re: Was Kate alone when she discovered Madeleine Missing?

Post by Genbug on 27.02.14 0:00




I suspect it was because they tried to get the shutters jemmied and they wouldn't jemmy. I suspect that the earlier visit of maintenance men to 5A to fix the shutters in Kate and Gerry's room might have been because they'd broken them trying a "trial run" of How to Do It. And I further suspect that they assumed it would be the same for the shutters in the kids' room - however when it came time to make them "jemmy"... for some reason it didn't work. I think some time was wasted trying to make it work... and it didn't. So the alarm was planned for 9.30 and delayed until 10.00pm, and they went without the shutters being broken, and decided to hope for the best by claiming they were.

Not just the McCann shutters apparently, the Oldfield's shutters too. This rather bizarre rambling is from Matthew Oldfield's rogatory interview:

" Erm, somebody had workmen in maybe during, the shutter we broke, the shutter, erm, broke for, the outside shutter by the patio door broke for us on the first day, I think it went back up into its, so you couldn’t actually drop it on the outside, the shutter by the patio, but we didn’t drop that anyway, erm, until we got in at night, but I think it broke and it had to be, and I think they did come, yes, they did come and repair it."

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Re: Was Kate alone when she discovered Madeleine Missing?

Post by tigger on 27.02.14 6:22

@Genbug wrote:



I suspect it was because they tried to get the shutters jemmied and they wouldn't jemmy. I suspect that the earlier visit of maintenance men to 5A to fix the shutters in Kate and Gerry's room might have been because they'd broken them trying a "trial run" of How to Do It. And I further suspect that they assumed it would be the same for the shutters in the kids' room - however when it came time to make them "jemmy"... for some reason it didn't work. I think some time was wasted trying to make it work... and it didn't. So the alarm was planned for 9.30 and delayed until 10.00pm, and they went without the shutters being broken, and decided to hope for the best by claiming they were.

Not just the McCann shutters apparently, the Oldfield's shutters too. This rather bizarre rambling is from Matthew Oldfield's rogatory interview:

" Erm, somebody had workmen in maybe during, the shutter we broke, the shutter, erm, broke for, the outside shutter by the patio door broke for us on the first day, I think it went back up into its, so you couldn’t actually drop it on the outside, the shutter by the patio, but we didn’t drop that anyway, erm, until we got in at night, but I think it broke and it had to be, and I think they did come, yes, they did come and repair it."

'All shutters down'. Including those of the patio doors was the magic mantra that would prove they were keeping their children safe.
Rachel Oldfield confirms the above in her statement to the PJ.
Problem was that not everybody was aware that this had to change once the patio doors had to be accessible.


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Re: Was Kate alone when she discovered Madeleine Missing?

Post by russiandoll on 27.02.14 9:57

Quote travis....." madelene r????r,friend of elizabeth naylor. it was  the afternoon of monday 30th april.maybe she was having a tantrum.maybe dp wanted to see her! "

  Once again I can't copy over mopre than 2/3 of a crèche sheet, apologies.

  Sunday 29th : a Madeleine McCann and and an Elizabeth Naylor were signed in to both am and pm sessions of the Lobsters crèche.  At both sessions, the name Elizabeth is written over the name Robert. There is the characteristic H of Gerry's where there is no horizontal bar in the centre, but there is a diagonal similar to the Russian letter    И     where the line runs from the bottom of the left vertical to the top of the right.

  Monday 30th  : both were signed in in the morning, strangely Robert Naylor's name is there, not the daughter's.

 afternoon : no Elizabeth, Kiko's theory is that the sub was not willing to remain without her friend, hence the rapid removal from the crèche.

 There is afaik no published information about a Madelene being on that holiday. It is Kiko's view that it is this child who was not known by the name Maddie.

 He strongly believes that things were organised back in the UK.

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Re: Was Kate alone when she discovered Madeleine Missing?

Post by Hicks on 27.02.14 14:57

I believe Kate made a Freudian slip when she stated that," the Portuguese don't want a *murder* investigation in Portugal" during an interview not long after Madeleine went missing.

I don't believe it was accident. An accident would not have had them going to such lengths to conceal the body. In my opinion.
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Re: Was Kate alone when she discovered Madeleine Missing?

Post by russiandoll on 27.02.14 15:07

To add to my previous post, Kiko suggested an alternative explanation for the short crèche stay on afternoon of 30th. The sub was not needed because EN did not attend, so she was signed out rapidly.

 He also believes that the Robert instead of Elizabeth being written, or Robert being written first and corrected with the girl's name. was a deliberate ploy by Gerry to convince readers of those sheets that Rpbert Naylor was at the crèche when he was not, it was Gerry signing in both girls.

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Re: Was Kate alone when she discovered Madeleine Missing?

Post by kimHager on 27.02.14 15:52

OMG Russiandoll I feel like this set up with the other Maddie was so crazy and extremely confusing that it worked! I am not sure about this naylor character was he there on holiday also or did he Live there? Time to look him up!

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Re: Was Kate alone when she discovered Madeleine Missing?

Post by russiandoll on 27.02.14 16:15

if I find the 90 page doc Kiko wrote about the arrangements for the crèche and his phone analysis, I will let you see the details re RN.

Kiko iirc believed the Naylors were on holiday at OC but that the sub family were off site.

 It is fascinating stuff, whether you accept it or not.

 The crèche enquiry thread shows many anomalies in the entries  [beginning 29th, the first day crèche was used.]

 You could go to memberlist, click on kikoraton's name and bring up his stats...where and what he has posted, it will keep you busy for a long time.

 He has sent his findings to PJ Norte .

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Re: Was Kate alone when she discovered Madeleine Missing?

Post by Guest on 27.02.14 18:36

@Genbug wrote:



I suspect it was because they tried to get the shutters jemmied and they wouldn't jemmy. I suspect that the earlier visit of maintenance men to 5A to fix the shutters in Kate and Gerry's room might have been because they'd broken them trying a "trial run" of How to Do It. And I further suspect that they assumed it would be the same for the shutters in the kids' room - however when it came time to make them "jemmy"... for some reason it didn't work. I think some time was wasted trying to make it work... and it didn't. So the alarm was planned for 9.30 and delayed until 10.00pm, and they went without the shutters being broken, and decided to hope for the best by claiming they were.

Not just the McCann shutters apparently, the Oldfield's shutters too. This rather bizarre rambling is from Matthew Oldfield's rogatory interview:

" Erm, somebody had workmen in maybe during, the shutter we broke, the shutter, erm, broke for, the outside shutter by the patio door broke for us on the first day, I think it went back up into its, so you couldn’t actually drop it on the outside, the shutter by the patio, but we didn’t drop that anyway, erm, until we got in at night, but I think it broke and it had to be, and I think they did come, yes, they did come and repair it."

Could it be this man has a crying fit?

How else could one explain the total mumbo-jumbo?

British doctors are not supposed to be recruited from a pool of idiots, surely?
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Re: Was Kate alone when she discovered Madeleine Missing?

Post by Penfold on 27.02.14 18:41

Ham fisted idiots wearing boxing gloves!
I've stayed in quite a few apartments in Spain and Portugal -and have never once broken shutters. You just read the instructions, and do it.

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Re: Was Kate alone when she discovered Madeleine Missing?

Post by Guest on 27.02.14 18:50

@Portia wrote:
@Genbug wrote:
I suspect it was because they tried to get the shutters jemmied and they wouldn't jemmy. I suspect that the earlier visit of maintenance men to 5A to fix the shutters in Kate and Gerry's room might have been because they'd broken them trying a "trial run" of How to Do It. And I further suspect that they assumed it would be the same for the shutters in the kids' room - however when it came time to make them "jemmy"... for some reason it didn't work. I think some time was wasted trying to make it work... and it didn't. So the alarm was planned for 9.30 and delayed until 10.00pm, and they went without the shutters being broken, and decided to hope for the best by claiming they were.

Not just the McCann shutters apparently, the Oldfield's shutters too. This rather bizarre rambling is from Matthew Oldfield's rogatory interview:

" Erm, somebody had workmen in maybe during, the shutter we broke, the shutter, erm, broke for, the outside shutter by the patio door broke for us on the first day, I think it went back up into its, so you couldn’t actually drop it on the outside, the shutter by the patio, but we didn’t drop that anyway, erm, until we got in at night, but I think it broke and it had to be, and I think they did come, yes, they did come and repair it."

Could it be this man has a crying fit?

How else could one explain the total mumbo-jumbo?

British doctors are not supposed to be recruited from a pool of idiots, surely?

Portia, On a different thread, or perhaps earlier on in this one, I think, someone has delicately expressed their surprise at the fact that Kate McCann was actually a doctor. For me, I get that feeling of surprise when I read the poor and inarticulate answers given by some of the rest of the party. Errms, erhs, you knows. I find it just so surprising for professionals; it seems more like slangy teenager speak imo. It isn't that I am being snobbish  either. It's just that most people when they hit forty odd find it not too difficult to string a sentence together in their native language without hesitation or interruption. It would never do on 'Just a minute'.
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Re: Was Kate alone when she discovered Madeleine Missing?

Post by NickE on 27.02.14 19:32

Arlindo Epifanio Goncalves Fernandes Peleja

Date/Time: 2007/05/08 21H10
Executive Chef
 
Portuguese 



After parking his vehicle, he entered through the reception of that restaurant, in the left hand direction, toward the side opposite the pool, and passed by the esplanade. He remembers having seen in that esplanade, one table, occupied by three couples, without children, and all of them adults. On the esplanade, he encountered no one else. 
. A few minutes later, when it was around 21H20, he heard some clamour, which made him leave toward the restaurant, a few meters away, and was then informed that a child had disappeared. Given the importance of this, believed that he should be in the surroundings. At that moment, he did not leave the area of the restaurant, and did not have the opportunity to check if the vehicle mentioned before was situated in the same location; 
. Later, at around 21:40, he left the restaurant passing through the same esplanade where moments before, he had seen the same table occupied by the three couples, empty, who had left in the meanwhile various items, principally clothing. He was told by his colleagues that the child who had disappeared was a child of one of those couples; 
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/ARLINDO-PELEGA.htm
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Re: Was Kate alone when she discovered Madeleine Missing?

Post by Cristobell on 27.02.14 19:48

@Hicks wrote:I believe Kate made a Freudian slip when she stated that," the Portuguese don't want a *murder* investigation in Portugal" during an interview not long after Madeleine went missing.

I don't believe it was accident. An accident would not have had them going to such lengths to conceal the body. In my opinion.



And Gerry said 'And if it was an accident, why wouldn't we report it'. Indeed Gerry.

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