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Getting back to the Sea Bass

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Getting back to the Sea Bass

Post by whmon on 21.02.14 19:38

We are asked to believe that cadaver odour was present in the apartment because Sean had developed a taste for Sea Bass, there are several reasons why I think this is a lie:

1. They were only on holiday for a week - how many times had the child eaten Sea Bass enough to develop a taste for it?

2. It was only Sean, not the other two children who had 'developed a taste for Sea Bass' in which case we are asked to believe that a mother who:

(a) put her children into a crèche as often as she could so that she could go out drinking, dining and playing sports with friends
(b) had one toothbrush between three children
(c) fed her children biscuits and crisps for supper
(d) left them alone in a dark apartment
 
We are asked to believe that a mother who would happily do points a-d above, would also cook a healthy meal from scratch for just one of the children, while presumably cooking a separate meal from scratch for the other two children - or just feeding the others biscuits and crisps again. Both scenarios are suspect.

Points a-d are NOT compatible with the sort of mother who would cook a healthy fish dish from scratch. The 'healthy fish dish from scratch mother' would not dream of letting them use one toothbrush between three of them or of feeding them biscuits and crisps for supper, much less letting them spend their holiday in the crèche. The 'healthy fish dish from scratch mother' would NEVER leave them all alone at night.

So, I don't believe there ever was any Sea Bass in the apartment which begs the question: Did they already know about the properties of Sea Bass before the holiday, or did they discover this point later? Either way - it was the Mccanns' themselves who pointed out the properties of Sea Bass - not some third party coming to the rescue of innocent parents. Very strange that Sea Bass can produce cadaver odour, and they conveniently had Sea Bass in their apartment (or did they?)

It seems strange that on being informed of cadaver odour in the apartment, and after it was confirmed that the dogs don't lie that they immediately shouted 'Sea Bass' and then kept talking about Sea Bass (the bewk, GM's blog) it might have been more expected for them to have blamed planted evidence/someone else must have died there/say the had no idea how it got there. But no - they had a weird, almost Sherlock Holmes style explanation.

Of course another aspect is that they may have arrived on holiday, (along with their strange bedtime reading collection) with the ready knowledge that Sea Bass produces cadaver odour and actually bought some Sea Bass - but to what end? That is a whole other kettle of fish.

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Re: Getting back to the Sea Bass

Post by Guest on 21.02.14 20:01

And I am sure it's been said before that a 'healthy fish dish from scratch' mother would be highly unlikely to give a toddler fresh sea bass since contains small rib and pin bones which could get stuck in a toddlers throat.  Especially unlikely since they were in a holiday apartment and presumably without the proper knives etc to debone it.  Sea Bass is about 50% waste so an awful lot of bones etc to pick through to make it safe.

Plus I can't really see the Mccanns staying in to fillet fish when there were so much more interesting activities to be had.

All imo.
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Re: Getting back to the Sea Bass

Post by canada12 on 21.02.14 20:17

Just for reference purposes, the original mention of "sea bass" and Sean was on Gerry's blog, 08 June 2007, 36 days after Madeleine disappeared. And the "sea bass" in question is at a restaurant. Kate didn't cook it.

Was it mentioned elsewhere on Gerry's blog? Did I miss it?

http://www.mccannfiles.com/id13.html
[color:2781=000000]Quieter day today. This was a good chance to catch up with campaign e-mails and phone calls after the trips to Berlin and Amsterdam. At lunchtime we went to the release of 1000 yellow balloons at the beach carrying cards with Madeleine’s picture on it and information in 5 different languages including arabic. There were similar launches in Manchester and Madrid. The event was organsied by the Sun who, like almost all of the media, have been incredibly supportive. I told Nick, the Sun journalist, that we are happy to support all strategies which increase the chances of finding Madeleine. Later in the afternoon we went down to the beach and had dinner in one of the restaurants which Sean and Amelie really enjoyed. Sean, in particular has acquired a taste for sea-bass! Kate and I did a short interview for BBC East Midlands to thank everyone for their support and it is likely that this will be shown around most of the regions, certainly Northwest and BBC Scotland. Kate and most of the family headed down to the church for the regular Friday night vigil but I was just too shattered. Tommorrow will largely be a family day although I am not sure what we will be doing yet.

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Re: Getting back to the Sea Bass

Post by whmon on 21.02.14 20:20

BlackCatBoogie wrote:And I am sure it's been said before that a 'healthy fish dish from scratch' mother would be highly unlikely to give a toddler fresh sea bass since contains small rib and pin bones which could get stuck in a toddlers throat.  Especially unlikely since they were in a holiday apartment and presumably without the proper knives etc to debone it.  Sea Bass is about 50% waste so an awful lot of bones etc to pick through to make it safe.

Plus I can't really see the Mccanns staying in to fillet fish when there were so much more interesting activities to be had.

All imo.

That was something I wondered about BCB. Not being a great fish eater I wasn't sure if it was a particularly bony fish or not. All your points are, as you say, reasons for NOT cooking it for a child in a holiday apartment. So why did they have it / say they had it? Only that it is a cadaver odour producer.

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Re: Getting back to the Sea Bass

Post by whmon on 21.02.14 20:23

@canada12 wrote:Just for reference purposes, the original mention of "sea bass" and Sean was on Gerry's blog, 08 June 2007, 36 days after Madeleine disappeared. And the "sea bass" in question is at a restaurant. Kate didn't cook it.

Was it mentioned elsewhere on Gerry's blog? Did I miss it?

http://www.mccannfiles.com/id13.html
Quieter day today. This was a good chance to catch up with campaign e-mails and phone calls after the trips to Berlin and Amsterdam. At lunchtime we went to the release of 1000 yellow balloons at the beach carrying cards with Madeleine’s picture on it and information in 5 different languages including arabic. There were similar launches in Manchester and Madrid. The event was organsied by the Sun who, like almost all of the media, have been incredibly supportive. I told Nick, the Sun journalist, that we are happy to support all strategies which increase the chances of finding Madeleine. Later in the afternoon we went down to the beach and had dinner in one of the restaurants which Sean and Amelie really enjoyed. Sean, in particular has acquired a taste for sea-bass! Kate and I did a short interview for BBC East Midlands to thank everyone for their support and it is likely that this will be shown around most of the regions, certainly Northwest and BBC Scotland. Kate and most of the family headed down to the church for the regular Friday night vigil but I was just too shattered. Tommorrow will largely be a family day although I am not sure what we will be doing yet.

Thanks Canada. I haven't got references to hand, maybe someone else can help me out - but the Mccanns explained away the cadaver scent by saying they'd had Sea Bass in the apartment because Sean had developed a taste for it.

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Re: Getting back to the Sea Bass

Post by canada12 on 21.02.14 20:33

Hmm. Thanks for that.
I think we'd need to find the exact quote from Gerry, and the date he is reported to have said it, in order to:

a. verify whether he actually did state that sea bass can be a source of cadaverine, and
b. if he did state this, when exactly did he make this statement.

If he did actually make this statement, and it was after 08 June 2007, then his first blogging mention of it on 08 June 2007 would seem to indicate some kind of premeditation and preplanning in terms of explaining away a scent which had yet to be discovered by the dogs (ie, a "just in case" mention).

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Re: Getting back to the Sea Bass

Post by whmon on 21.02.14 20:41

@canada12 wrote:Hmm. Thanks for that.
I think we'd need to find the exact quote from Gerry, and the date he is reported to have said it, in order to:

a. verify whether he actually did state that sea bass can be a source of cadaverine, and
b. if he did state this, when exactly did he make this statement.

If he did actually make this statement, and it was after 08 June 2007, then his first blogging mention of it on 08 June 2007 would seem to indicate some kind of premeditation and preplanning in terms of explaining away a scent which had yet to be discovered by the dogs (ie, a "just in case" mention).

Good point. Let's get looking!

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Re: Getting back to the Sea Bass

Post by kimHager on 22.02.14 3:14

So G had sea bass in the bedroom and behind the couch. Wouldn't it be say.. Inth fridge or in the kitchen... 6 dead bodies and a lot of sea bass! What an interesting family to have that all over your clothes or on the cuddlecat who BTW ate the seabass rofl

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Re: Getting back to the Sea Bass

Post by tigger on 22.02.14 5:44

@whmon wrote:
@canada12 wrote:Hmm. Thanks for that.
I think we'd need to find the exact quote from Gerry, and the date he is reported to have said it, in order to:

a. verify whether he actually did state that sea bass can be a source of cadaverine, and
b. if he did state this, when exactly did he make this statement.

If he did actually make this statement, and it was after 08 June 2007, then his first blogging mention of it on 08 June 2007 would seem to indicate some kind of premeditation and preplanning in terms of explaining away a scent which had yet to be discovered by the dogs (ie, a "just in case" mention).

Good point. Let's get looking!

If anyone can have a look in the Scotland Yard Manual which I think Gerry was so kindly given by Jim Gamble I believe and which can be seen in the Grimes video, it might be the source of the sea bass story.
There was another book there as well, The ...something ..of murder.' Which might have such information in it.
G wouldn't be likely to get it from the internet as it might have been traced.

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Re: Getting back to the Sea Bass

Post by sami on 22.02.14 9:27

Many moons ago now, when I looked into sea bass / cadaverine, there was a general train of thought that it would take up to 7 days for the scent to develop from the fish.

So suffice to say the EVRD would not bark at you whilst you sit eating sea bass in a beach side restaurant.  More likely you could be intensive care being treated for severe food poisoning having consumed rotting fish.

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Re: Getting back to the Sea Bass

Post by ultimaThule on 22.02.14 9:50

Here's a review for Gerry's bedside reading 'The Interpretation of Murder' http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/books/reviews/the-interpretation-of-murder-by-jed-rubenfeld-417726.html

I read this book some years back and, without wishing to spoil the plot for those who intend to make it their holiday reading , the 'unpalatable truths' discovered by the three principal characters are considerably more palatable than those which the McCann case presents and, to the best of my recollection, they don't get to eat, or swim with, sea bass nor does any whiff of eau d'corpse assail their nostrils.

IMO it's a distinctly average 'whodunit' which falls well short of Umberto Eco's superb novel, as my well-worn copy of 'The Name of the Rose' can testify.
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Re: Getting back to the Sea Bass

Post by Lance De Boils on 24.02.14 19:38

@ultimaThule wrote:Here's a review for Gerry's bedside reading 'The Interpretation of Murder' http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/books/reviews/the-interpretation-of-murder-by-jed-rubenfeld-417726.html

I read this book some years back and, without wishing to spoil the plot for those who intend to make it their holiday reading , the 'unpalatable truths' discovered by the three principal characters are considerably more palatable than those which the McCann case presents and, to the best of my recollection, they don't get to eat, or swim with, sea bass nor does any whiff of eau d'corpse assail their nostrils.

IMO it's a distinctly average 'whodunit' which falls well short of Umberto Eco's superb novel, as my well-worn copy of 'The Name of the Rose' can testify.

I bought this book, myself, but never read it.
The presence of this particular book in McCann's possessions has never struck me as odd in itself and I've never considered it of any relevance. It was just one of the top sellers at the time and was probably picked up in an airport shop as a holiday read. I would guess.
I could of course be wrong.
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Re: Getting back to the Sea Bass

Post by ultimaThule on 24.02.14 20:11

I can recommend this book for holiday reading as it's not one which compels the reader to keep turning the pages until the suspense-filled end.  

Given the concept - the father of psychoanalysis being called upon to lend his expertise to solving a crime long before the advent of forensic psychology and with an appearance by Jung to boot -it promised to be a memorable read.  Instead, I found it instantly forgettable. 

However, to the best of my recollection, there's nothing in this book which would lead one to suspect it played any part in the disappearance of Madeleine McCann and I suspect it was acquired from a charity shop, or given to the wee one by another holiday maker, as I very much doubt he's the type out to fork out the full price for novels in major retailers.
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Re: Getting back to the Sea Bass

Post by Watching on 24.02.14 20:30

@ultimaThule wrote:I can recommend this book for holiday reading as it's not one which compels the reader to keep turning the pages until the suspense-filled end.  

Given the concept - the father of psychoanalysis being called upon to lend his expertise to solving a crime long before the advent of forensic psychology and with an appearance by Jung to boot -it promised to be a memorable read.  Instead, I found it instantly forgettable. 

However, to the best of my recollection, there's nothing in this book which would lead one to suspect it played any part in the disappearance of Madeleine McCann and I suspect it was acquired from a charity shop, or given to the wee one by another holiday maker, as I very much doubt he's the type out to fork out the full price for novels in major retailers.


Agree regarding The Interpretation of Murder in relation to Madeleine's disappearance.  But have to say I found it an excellent read.   It was at that time recommended as a 'holiday read' quite possible 'Mr' picked it up at the OC or somewhere after having been read and left  by another holiday maker.

As to sea bass.  Mrs didn't cook on that holiday.  Sandwiches for lunch, and children had tea at the creche dining area.  Can't imagine Mrs going out of her way to find a fishmonger!   These people conducted themselves on that holiday as though free agents!

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Re: Getting back to the Sea Bass

Post by ultimaThule on 25.02.14 0:14

And after Madeleine's disappearance, the McCanns were upgraded to an all inclusive holiday with everything being free courtesy of MW until they outstayed their welcome and were eased into a rented villa, presumably paid for from the millions of £s which poured into their limited company 'fund'.
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Re: Getting back to the Sea Bass

Post by tigger on 25.02.14 6:12

@canada12 wrote:Just for reference purposes, the original mention of "sea bass" and Sean was on Gerry's blog, 08 June 2007, 36 days after Madeleine disappeared. And the "sea bass" in question is at a restaurant. Kate didn't cook it.

Was it mentioned elsewhere on Gerry's blog? Did I miss it?

http://www.mccannfiles.com/id13.html
[color:0330=000000]Quieter day today. This was a good chance to catch up with campaign e-mails and phone calls after the trips to Berlin and Amsterdam. At lunchtime we went to the release of 1000 yellow balloons at the beach carrying cards with Madeleine’s picture on it and information in 5 different languages including arabic. There were similar launches in Manchester and Madrid. The event was organsied by the Sun who, like almost all of the media, have been incredibly supportive. I told Nick, the Sun journalist, that we are happy to support all strategies which increase the chances of finding Madeleine. Later in the afternoon we went down to the beach and had dinner in one of the restaurants which Sean and Amelie really enjoyed. Sean, in particular has acquired a taste for sea-bass! Kate and I did a short interview for BBC East Midlands to thank everyone for their support and it is likely that this will be shown around most of the regions, certainly Northwest and BBC Scotland. Kate and most of the family headed down to the church for the regular Friday night vigil but I was just too shattered. Tommorrow will largely be a family day although I am not sure what we will be doing yet.

There's a cluster of events around this date:
8th seabass mentioned
9th? Meeting at Sagres for which some friends and family flew in ( reported differently in the blog and diary)
10th - the curious phonecall between Gerry and ROB. G said ROB was close, 2 km or so, Antenna gave ca. 24 km.
I think this call is connected to the barn and the towel found there.
Later that day the McCanns fly off to Marocco.
On their return Gerry gives a strange statement mentioning 'time to grieve' and a new direction in the search.

What would be good to know is if it was around this date that theneighbour saw the boot being aired. The PJ would know I expect.

Why were the McCanns dressed in black for Marocco? The 9th would have been 40 days if M had a fatal accident on the 30th April - all in my opinion.


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Re: Getting back to the Sea Bass

Post by ultimaThule on 26.02.14 11:08

Whatever became of those matching black suits which Kate was at pains to point out were bought on a trip to a large shopping centre at a time when, a mere 2-3 weeks after her 3 year old daughter had been abducted by a paedophile, she felt guiltly about enjoying a snack in a cafe? 

According to Kate, these items were purchased because Rome awaited she and the wee one were advised dark clothing should be worn when receiving meeting the Pope.  Fwiw, when being granted a private audience there is a dress code to be observed, but for all other occasions when His Popeness will be present the rule is simply that of entry to the Basilica, namely shoulders and knees covered although, presumably, an exception is made for devout Catholic males of Scottish origin.

The couple's choice of mourning wear for their attendance at one of the regular mass (no pun intended) meetings at which Papal beneficence is dispensed to the needy, and the not so needy, is surprising and I fully expected Kate to wear a white Monsoon dress, with the wee one opting for the highland dress he can't wait to slip into whenever legitimate opportunity arises for calling attention to himself in public.  laughat 

Black wool, or polyester as the case may be, off the peg suits in the mid-summer heat of Rome and the sweltering temperatures of Morocco would seem to be an odd choice for those who are not in mourning for the death of a loved one, but perhaps the lifestyle fund hadn't yet provided sufficient readies for K&G to have a couple of black linen numbers run up a Hong Kong tailor Stella McCartney and Giorgio Armani.
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Re: Getting back to the Sea Bass

Post by Guest on 26.02.14 12:25

@ultimaThule wrote:Whatever became of those matching black suits which Kate was at pains to point out were bought on a trip to a large shopping centre at a time when, a mere 2-3 weeks after her 3 year old daughter had been abducted by a paedophile, she felt guiltly about enjoying a snack in a cafe? 

According to Kate, these items were purchased because Rome awaited she and the wee one were advised dark clothing should be worn when receiving meeting the Pope.  Fwiw, when being granted a private audience there is a dress code to be observed, but for all other occasions when His Popeness will be present the rule is simply that of entry to the Basilica, namely shoulders and knees covered although, presumably, an exception is made for devout Catholic males of Scottish origin.

The couple's choice of mourning wear for their attendance at one of the regular mass (no pun intended) meetings at which Papal beneficence is dispensed to the needy, and the not so needy, is surprising and I fully expected Kate to wear a white Monsoon dress, with the wee one opting for the highland dress he can't wait to slip into whenever legitimate opportunity arises for calling attention to himself in public.  laughat 

Black wool, or polyester as the case may be, off the peg suits in the mid-summer heat of Rome and the sweltering temperatures of Morocco would seem to be an odd choice for those who are not in mourning for the death of a loved one, but perhaps the lifestyle fund hadn't yet provided sufficient readies for K&G to have a couple of black linen numbers run up a Hong Kong tailor Stella McCartney and Giorgio Armani.

Could those outfits have been bought at Zara's?

I refer to my talking to a couple of Dutch OAPs last october, who were adamant they had seen the McCs with three children and a buggy, checking out at the Zara store in a mall east of Faro, IIRC. They told me they had recognized the McCs immediately when they first appeared on tv
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Re: Getting back to the Sea Bass

Post by ultimaThule on 26.02.14 16:37

The black suit Kate wore looked cheap and ill-fitting, Portia, and I would expect better cut clothing from Primarni   smilie 

I'm intrigued by the Dutch couple you met... can you recall when/what time of year they claimed to have seen the family of 5 in a Zara store east of Faro?

I also recognised the McCanns immediately when I first saw them on tv, but not because I'd seen them in real life prior to their debut on the world stage.
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Re: Getting back to the Sea Bass

Post by Guest on 26.02.14 17:44

@ultimaThule wrote:The black suit Kate wore looked cheap and ill-fitting, Portia, and I would expect better cut clothing from Primarni   smilie 

I'm intrigued by the Dutch couple you met... can you recall when/what time of year they claimed to have seen the family of 5 in a Zara store east of Faro?

I also recognised the McCanns immediately when I first saw them on tv, but not because I'd seen them in real life prior to their debut on the world stage.

A couple of days before the news about the disappearance hit the media

In Dutch that was: 'een paar dagen daarvoor', which would be 2-4 days

They also mentioned the family being accompanied by a couple of other grown ups
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Re: Getting back to the Sea Bass

Post by lj on 28.02.14 0:17

@ultimaThule wrote:The black suit Kate wore looked cheap and ill-fitting, Portia, and I would expect better cut clothing from Primarni   smilie 

I'm intrigued by the Dutch couple you met... can you recall when/what time of year they claimed to have seen the family of 5 in a Zara store east of Faro?

I also recognised the McCanns immediately when I first saw them on tv, but not because I'd seen them in real life prior to their debut on the world stage.

You make curious OT or was it sarcasm as in "I recognise a fraud from a milke away?"

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Re: Getting back to the Sea Bass

Post by PeterMac on 02.02.15 9:13

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Re: Getting back to the Sea Bass

Post by aiyoyo on 02.02.15 9:47

And the smelly nappies ?

The meat shopping that went "off", dripping blood into the car boot ?

I've never ever before heard such rotten excuses used to explain the cadaverine odour.
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Re: Getting back to the Sea Bass

Post by PeterMac on 02.02.15 11:26

@aiyoyo wrote:And the smelly nappies ?
The meat shopping that went "off", dripping blood into the car boot ?
I've never ever before heard such rotten excuses used to explain the cadaverine odour.

What was more strange is that despite having decided on the "notoriously unreliable" line - even though this was doomed to failure
they then ALSO chose to make excuses for what the dogs HAD found.

And the family helped with that outright blatant LIE about Kate's having attended six corpses in the week leading up to the holiday,
- clearly intending to imply that she wore the same clothes all week for examining corpses, and one assumes also to see and examine living patients,
then wore the same clothes for the holiday, and did not wash or change them either during the holiday or for the many weeks of their extended holiday until the dogs turned up.

And they then wonder why the rest of the world find this a little "difficult" to accept !

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Re: Getting back to the Sea Bass

Post by LombardySkeptik on 02.02.15 11:40

Indeed the corpse attendance by Kate (and CuddleCat) is possibly one of the most bizzare 'qualifiers' to emerge from Camp McCann at that or indeed anytime 

"methinks they doth explain to much" so to speak

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