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Daily Mail - The truth about Labour's apologists for paedophilia:

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Re: Daily Mail - The truth about Labour's apologists for paedophilia:

Post by Research_Reader on 25.02.14 11:15

@Mirage wrote:Reflecting on that car crash of an interview by Harman, isn't the failure to take responsibility for actions and a haughty imperviousness to the opinions of others the very essence of sociopathy?

Yes!

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Re: Daily Mail - The truth about Labour's apologists for paedophilia:

Post by Guest on 25.02.14 11:17

@Cristobell wrote:
We are responsible for our own children, thank goodness, we should not be looking to people like Harriet Harman to take over our job.  

I have to laugh at that NSPCC "full stop" advert. "Please send us money, to stop child abuse!" I've already done MY bit to prevent child abuse, thank you very much, by not practising it. I don't see what I can realistically do to moderate what goes on behind other people's closed doors. Besides, in what way are the accumulated £3's going to make a difference? Or are they intending to pay people to leave their poor kids alone?
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Re: Daily Mail - The truth about Labour's apologists for paedophilia:

Post by Mirage on 25.02.14 11:22

Thank you CR and RR for your answers.  big grin 

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Re: Daily Mail - The truth about Labour's apologists for paedophilia:

Post by mouse on 25.02.14 11:34

"I have to laugh at that NSPCC "full stop" advert. "Please send us money, to stop child abuse!" I've already done MY bit to prevent child abuse, thank you very much, by not practising it. I don't see what I can realistically do to moderate what goes on behind other people's closed doors. Besides, in what way are the accumulated £3's going to make a difference? Or are they intending to paypeople to leave their poor kids alone?


Clay Regazzoni - I can't watch that advert. Child actors crying, looking unkempt, locked in a room or whatever. It makes my blood boil. I never give to NSPCC - for the pure fact that I don't trust them! As far I know, I believe I heard it somewhere, that this group's idea of child abuse prevention actaully means providing counciling to Child Abusers so that they can overcome their problems. Taking money from people who care about the children to actually spend on the abusers rather than the children. I believe it might include the practice of keeping a family with an abuser in it together.....Now where did I hear that before - oh yes Ray Wyre - he was a big fan of this kind of therapy. His thoughts on the matter were that it was far worse for the abused child to have their father torn away from the family fold to be put in prison....Beggars belief doesn't it! 


Also I thought it rather telling that when Kevin McGuire (He of the MIrror and it would appear chief spinmeister/spokesman for the Lab Party today) saying that PIE - as an organisation would not be so obvious with their name today. He said they'd probably call themselves something 'very nice'....Makes you wonder doesn't it - which other organisations are really a front for this abhorrent perversion. 

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Re: Daily Mail - The truth about Labour's apologists for paedophilia:

Post by PeterMac on 25.02.14 11:38

Clay Regazzoni wrote:Besides, in what way are the accumulated £3's going to make a difference? Or are they intending to pay people to leave their poor kids alone?

www.telegraph.co.uk › News › Politics‎
Aug 8, 2013 - Andrew Flanagan, the NSPCC's chief executive, saw his pay increase from £ 160,000 to £170,000,

Like most of the Charities we have been talking about, it will take 56,666 donations of £3 just to pay his wages, let alone his expenses.

And they employ 2,500.

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Re: Daily Mail - The truth about Labour's apologists for paedophilia:

Post by Guest on 25.02.14 11:40

I remember a few years ago reading critical articles about the Full Stop campaign.  Just found one:

http://www.deabirkett.com/pages/journalism_film/journalism/it_needs_to_be_stopped.htm
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Re: Daily Mail - The truth about Labour's apologists for paedophilia:

Post by Research_Reader on 25.02.14 11:46

A lot of what these charities do is about 'raising awareness'. That sounds a noble aim, and is probably necessary to some extent, but there is a fine line between that and making everyone paranoid and tainting healthy relationships. It may seem paradoxical, but these organisations depend on the perpetuation of the problem in order for them to exist. How many of their activities actually make the problem worse in the long run?

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Re: Daily Mail - The truth about Labour's apologists for paedophilia:

Post by mouse on 25.02.14 11:53

Interesting Reading LadyinRed

Just looked up the NSPCC Webpage - and apparently they now man an abuse prevention phoneline for offenders. Apparently if you are an offender who thinks he might offend or re-offend you call a hotline number. Don't really know what they do to stop you from offending. And just how much does this cost the charity. Surely this should not be paid for by the NSPCC. I know prevention is in their name - but it hasn't prevented much lately if you read LadyinRed's link about the group. I would love to see the success rate they have on this, but I don't suppose we will ever get to hear this. All feels rather odd. Rather like the phone-line set up for the Mccanns - ring up and let us know, don't go to the police.

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Re: Daily Mail - The truth about Labour's apologists for paedophilia:

Post by Mirage on 25.02.14 11:54

@mouse wrote:"I have to laugh at that NSPCC "full stop" advert. "Please send us money, to stop child abuse!" I've already done MY bit to prevent child abuse, thank you very much, by not practising it. I don't see what I can realistically do to moderate what goes on behind other people's closed doors. Besides, in what way are the accumulated £3's going to make a difference? Or are they intending to paypeople to leave their poor kids alone?


Clay Regazzoni - I can't watch that advert. Child actors crying, looking unkempt, locked in a room or whatever. It makes my blood boil. I never give to NSPCC - for the pure fact that I don't trust them! As far I know, I believe I heard it somewhere, that this group's idea of child abuse prevention actaully means providing counciling to Child Abusers so that they can overcome their problems. Taking money from people who care about the children to actually spend on the abusers rather than the children. I believe it might include the practice of keeping a family with an abuser in it together.....Now where did I hear that before - oh yes Ray Wyre - he was a big fan of this kind of therapy. His thoughts on the matter were that it was far worse for the abused child to have their father torn away from the family fold to be put in prison....Beggars belief doesn't it! 


Also I thought it rather telling that when Kevin McGuire (He of the MIrror and it would appear chief spinmeister/spokesman for the Lab Party today) saying that PIE - as an organisation would not be so obvious with their name today. He said they'd probably call themselves something 'very nice'....Makes you wonder doesn't it - which other organisations are really a front for this abhorrent perversion. 

I noticed Kevin McGuire walking an uncomfortable tightrope on the newspaper reviews on Sky last night with the Harman discussion.

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Re: Daily Mail - The truth about Labour's apologists for paedophilia:

Post by Guest on 25.02.14 12:00

@Mirage wrote:

I noticed Kevin McGuire walking an uncomfortable tightrope on the newspaper reviews on Sky last night with the Harman discussion.

Maybe he will slip and it will go up his.... well, you get the picture.
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Re: Daily Mail - The truth about Labour's apologists for paedophilia:

Post by Cristobell on 25.02.14 12:06

Clay Regazzoni wrote:
@Cristobell wrote:
We are responsible for our own children, thank goodness, we should not be looking to people like Harriet Harman to take over our job.  

I have to laugh at that NSPCC "full stop" advert. "Please send us money, to stop child abuse!" I've already done MY bit to prevent child abuse, thank you very much, by not practising it. I don't see what I can realistically do to moderate what goes on behind other people's closed doors. Besides, in what way are the accumulated £3's going to make a difference? Or are they intending to pay people to leave their poor kids alone?


Amen to that Clay. Utterly ridiculous. The only way to prevent child abuse is through education. I have long been tubthumping about parenting lessons as part of the curriculum. In the past our ideology came from Religious lessons, through religion, we were taught right from wrong, society's codes and conventions, Thou Shalt Not Kill, Thou Shalt Not Commit Adultery etc. As tiny tots we learned all about Sin and sang hymns to an all seeing eye who was watching our every move. Whilst Mr. Walt Disney taught us its good to work all day without any pay, its gets us singing.

I am not advocating a return to religious lessons - though I think Religious Education should be a vital part of our childrens' education, they need an understanding of the world around them. But if our children knew how to look after their children, then the future would be much brighter.

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Re: Daily Mail - The truth about Labour's apologists for paedophilia:

Post by Mirage on 25.02.14 12:23

Clay Regazzoni wrote:
@Mirage wrote:

I noticed Kevin McGuire walking an uncomfortable tightrope on the newspaper reviews on Sky last night with the Harman discussion.

Maybe he will slip and it will go up his.... well, you get the picture.

Strapline?

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Re: Daily Mail - The truth about Labour's apologists for paedophilia:

Post by tasprin on 25.02.14 13:30

Quote from the Telegraph: 'According to Sophy Ridge of Sky News, Labour sources are claiming the reason the Mail has gone in so hard against Harman is because the paper got its nose bloodied over the Ralph Miliband story last year'
Imo it's more a case of the Mail getting in first. They know there is a scandal brewing involving Tory paedophiles - The Express published a censored piece on it at the weekend but the full story will come out eventually.

Telegraph
Harriet Harman owes the British public a full explanation about the NCCL's links with paedophile group

By Toby Young Politics Last updated: February 25th, 2014

After refusing to admit that the National Council for Civil Liberties link to the Paedophile Information Exchange was a "mistake" on Newsnight last night (see above), Harriet Harman has changed tack this morning. A spokesman for Harman told the BBC that she "regrets the existence of" the PIE. "Of course she regrets any organisation's involvement with them, including the National Council for Civil Liberties,” the spokesman said. "But they were immaterial to her work."
That's a step in the right direction, but hardly sufficient. Her spokesman emphasised that the PIE became an "affiliate" of the NCCL's before Harman joined the organisation ("[Harman] regrets the existence of PIE and she regrets their involvement with NCCL before she joined"), but she still hasn't addressed the question of why she agreed to become the NCCL's legal officer in the first place, given the organisation's links with the notorious paedophile group, or why the PIE was allowed to remain under the umbrella of the NCCL until 1983. Let's not forget that the PIE lobbied for the legalisation of sex between adults and children – children as young as four. There's also the question of why Harman, in her capacity as the NCCL's legal officer, petitioned the Home Office to reduce sentences for convicted paedophiles and urged the Crown not to prosecute people found in possession of naked pictures of children unless it could be proven that the children in question had been harmed.

On Newsnight, Harman went on the attack against the Daily Mail, accusing the paper of trying to "smear" her, and senior members of the Labour Party are continuing to push out that line this morning. According to Sophy Ridge of Sky News, Labour sources are claiming the reason the Mail has gone in so hard against Harman is because the paper got its nose bloodied over the Ralph Miliband story last year:

Ed Miliband has clearly approved this strategy. Yesterday, Miliband stood on College Green surrounded by members of his Shadow Cabinet and backed Harmon to the hilt, describing her as someone of "huge decency and integrity" and claiming he "didn't set any store by these allegations".
The problem is, they're not "allegations". The links between the NCCL and the Paedophile Information Exchange are well documented, as is Harman's opposition to various changes in the law in connection with paedophilia when she was the NCCL's legal officer. Indeed, Newsnight flashed up one of these documents, signed by Harman herself and submitted to the Home Office, calling for the "maximum sentence" for people found in possession of indecent images of children to be "reduced". Not only that, but Harman's colleague, the former Labour Health Secretary Patricia Hewitt, was the general secretary of the NCCL in 1976 when the organisation submitted the following "evidence" to Parliament: “Childhood sexual experiences, willingly engaged in, with an adult result in no identifiable damage… The real need is a change in the attitude which assumes that all cases of paedophilia result in lasting damage.”

It's a bit of a stretch to dismiss these facts as "allegations". Harman went further yesterday and issued a statement before her Newsnight interview in which she attacked the Mail for launching a "politically motivated smear campaign" against her. "The editor and proprietor of the Daily Mail are entitled to their political views and they are of course entitled to oppose what I stand for but they are not entitled to use their newspaper to smear me with innuendo because they disagree with me politically and hate my values," she said.

One of the most unconvincing things about Harman's attempt to dismiss the story as a Daily Mail "smear campaign" is that the Mail isn't the only publication to have raised questions about the NCCL's links with the PIE. Private Eye has been writing about the group and its links to various members of the Establishment for decades and Damian Thompson, the editor of Telegraph Blogs, referred two years ago to Harman and Hewitt's involvement in the NCCL when it was linked to the paedophile group. Earlier this week, Andrew Gilligan wrote a piece for this newspaper in which he pointed out that the NCCL believed the right of adults to sleep with children was a "civil liberty" and that Harman, in her capacity as the organisation's legal officer, argued that child pornography should not be banned. Even the Labour-supporting Observer ran a piece at the weekend suggesting that Harman should offer an explanation for the NCCL's links to this notorious lobby group. "PIE's influence was such that the NCCL lobbied for what was dubbed a 'Lolita charter', where the age of consent would be lowered to 10 (if the child 'understood the nature of the act'); another proposal argued for incest to be legalised," wrote Barbara Ellen. If this is a "smear campaign", it's one that the whole of Fleet Street appears to be complicit in.

On the face of it, Harman and Miliband's decision to go on the offensive yesterday rather than offer any sort of explanation looks like a political blunder – and that's underlined by Harman's statement this morning in which she has at least expressed "regret". What's baffling is that senior Labour figures are continuing to brief against the Mail. Surely, if Harman now "regrets" the NCCL's links to the PIE, then the Mail's coverage of those links isn't a "smear"? The inescapable conclusion is that Harman and Miliband's visceral hatred of the Daily Mail has clouded their judgment. They clearly believe that by taking on the Mail they'll win the public's sympathy, just as Miliband did when he objected to the Mail's depiction of his father as "the man who hated Britain". Well, not this time they won't. This isn't an inflammatory opinion piece, but an important news story backed up by reams of documentary evidence and it's not just the Mail that's asking questions. It's all of us.

"It's a very simple question," said Laura Kuenssberg on Newsnight. "Was it a mistake to allow an overt group who were publicly campaigning for paedophiles, to be affiliated, which is the term they use, to be publicly affiliated to the National Council for Civil Liberties of which you were the legal officer?"
She refused to acknowledge that it was a mistake last night and, this morning, she hasn't gone nearly far enough. Harman owes the British public a full explanation of why the NCCL, an organisation she worked for, allowed its name to be used to legitimise paedophilia and campaigned against the government's attempts to toughen up the laws against child pornography.
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/tobyyoung/100261019/harriet-harman-owes-the-british-public-a-full-explanation-about-the-nccls-links-with-paedophile-group/

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Re: Daily Mail - The truth about Labour's apologists for paedophilia:

Post by Guest on 25.02.14 13:42

Sweet Jesus Christ almighty. If the Mail is trying to "smear" Harman with "allegations" then what are the CPS doing to Dave Lee Travis?

This odious woman obviously believes that she has some God given right to lord it over the rest of us, whilst being handsomely financially rewarded, for the rest of her days. What would it take to make her go away and never come back?
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Re: Daily Mail - The truth about Labour's apologists for paedophilia:

Post by jeanmonroe on 25.02.14 13:47

So Harlot slags of the Mail for putting out pictures of Courtney Stodden and sisters in bikinis AND then POSTS the very SAME picture herself on her twitter!

Far from protecting girls from 'sexualisation' here's Harlot consciously putting out a picture of a 12 year old girl in a bikini!

POT and KETTLE i say!



Courtney must be loving it!

Memo to Harlot: WHEN YOU'RE IN A HOLE.......STOP DIGGING!

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Re: Daily Mail - The truth about Labour's apologists for paedophilia:

Post by Guest on 25.02.14 13:50

@jeanmonroe wrote:So Harlot slags of the Mail for putting out pictures of Courtney Stodden and sisters in bikinis AND then POSTS the very SAME picture herself on her twitter!

If that was an attempt to shoot the messenger I can tell her she missed.
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Re: Daily Mail - The truth about Labour's apologists for paedophilia:

Post by tasprin on 25.02.14 14:10

@jeanmonroe wrote:So Harlot slags of the Mail for putting out pictures of Courtney Stodden and sisters in bikinis AND then POSTS the very SAME picture herself on her twitter!

Far from protecting girls from 'sexualisation' here's Harlot consciously putting out a picture of a 12 year old girl in a bikini!

POT and KETTLE i say!



Courtney must be loving it!

Memo to Harlot: WHEN YOU'RE IN A HOLE.......STOP DIGGING!

Exactly. If Harman's point is to demonstrate that the Mail has posted indecent images of children on its site why is she re-posting them on her twitter account? She's quite prepared to exploit indecent images of children if it helps get her some kind of revenge on the Mail.

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Re: Daily Mail - The truth about Labour's apologists for paedophilia:

Post by Tony Bennett on 25.02.14 14:48

@jeanmonroe wrote:So Harlot slags of the Mail for putting out pictures of Courtney Stodden and sisters in bikinis AND then POSTS the very SAME picture herself on her twitter!

Memo to Harlot: WHEN YOU'RE IN A HOLE.......STOP DIGGING!
I have led a fairly sheltered existence so have never heard of Courtney Stodden.

I assume she must be some kind of minor celebrity.

'B' list or 'C' list or someerthing.

I assume that the Daily Mail was publishing a story about her and illustrated the feature with that pic of her and her sister in bikinis - a sight one can see on any English beach in the summer.

For Harriet Harman to dredge up that pic against the Daily Mail - when she and Patricia Hewitt and Jack Dromey and others sheltered child rapists under their wing at the NCCL, even promoting their activities, is woeful, woeful, utterly woeful.

She is obsessed with vitriolic hatred for the Mail. 

A sort of 'Mailophobe'

 

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Re: Daily Mail - The truth about Labour's apologists for paedophilia:

Post by mouse on 25.02.14 14:50

Just seen Hatties latest interview - she won't apologise because she has nothing to apologise for. The Mail should apologise to her apparently. What kind of warped world does this woman live in? Perhaps she should now apologise for tweeting these photos she thinks are so offensive, though personally I see nothing wrong in healthy young teenage girls wearing bikinis. What does she expect young girls to wear at the beach - a nice victorian one piece perhaps? Maybe be wheeled down to the water's edge in one of those old bathing machines as I believe they called them. 


I find this woman's warped view of what a young teenager/girl should or shouldn't wear far more offensive and hypocritical considering what she put her name to as legal officer at that organisation. Though I do believe that she is not particularly liked by many of her own party. The Late Gwyneth Dunwoody Labour MP famously said of Harriet  ".....was one of certain, particular women who are of the opinion that they have a God-given right to be among the chosen". Hence why I guess she'll never apologise. Though I do believe this applies to some of the male population as well.  K & G Mccann always give this impression.

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Re: Daily Mail - The truth about Labour's apologists for paedophilia:

Post by Guest on 25.02.14 15:03

HH has always been lecturing us women how we should run our lives, mouse, particularly with regards to children.  Get them into full-time day care asap was her mission.

She comes from a privileged background, niece of the late Lord Longford, private schooling, lawyer.
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Re: Daily Mail - The truth about Labour's apologists for paedophilia:

Post by Guest on 25.02.14 15:04

I've read a few pages of this thread today. Does it have anything at all to do with Madeleine or is it just a fan thread for the Daily Mail? Just wondering why it's not in the news section.
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Re: Daily Mail - The truth about Labour's apologists for paedophilia:

Post by plebgate on 25.02.14 15:08

To those who do not want to see anything banned ever - yeah yeah yeah, heard it all before.

Too difficult for someone to do their jobs, too difficult for the police to stop the drugs trade.  On and On it goes.   Liberal tripe imo.     Start making examples and we would soon see this country fit for hard working, clean living familes and the vulnerable who have no families to look after them.   

Time for change and for me it can't come to soon.   For those who say look after your own children, can't believe what I read, what about when our children visit friends homes or on school computers or indeed, those teachers/adults who have unsavoury things on their minds.   Parents cannot be there 100 percent of the time.   Make examples and a parents job would be much easier.

As for Harman and co.   sue, sue, sue would soon stop the headlines.

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Re: Daily Mail - The truth about Labour's apologists for paedophilia:

Post by Mirage on 25.02.14 15:13

Clay Regazzoni wrote:
@jeanmonroe wrote:So Harlot slags of the Mail for putting out pictures of Courtney Stodden and sisters in bikinis AND then POSTS the very SAME picture herself on her twitter!

If that was an attempt to shoot the messenger I can tell her she missed.
By three cup sizes.

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Re: Daily Mail - The truth about Labour's apologists for paedophilia:

Post by tasprin on 25.02.14 15:17

@mouse wrote:Just seen Hatties latest interview - she won't apologise because she has nothing to apologise for. The Mail should apologise to her apparently. What kind of warped world does this woman live in? Perhaps she should now apologise for tweeting these photos she thinks are so offensive, though personally I see nothing wrong in healthy young teenage girls wearing bikinis. What does she expect young girls to wear at the beach - a nice victorian one piece perhaps? Maybe be wheeled down to the water's edge in one of those old bathing machines as I believe they called them. 


I find this woman's warped view of what a young teenager/girl should or shouldn't wear far more offensive and hypocritical considering what she put her name to as legal officer at that organisation.

No, but she does. To excuse her own failures, in turning a blind eye to an 'organisation that abused kids on an industrial scale', she has accused the Mail of publishing indecent images of children and used the above photo as an example, then promptly posted it on her twitter page. Perhaps you're right, and she'll now have to apologise for posting 'indecent images',

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Re: Daily Mail - The truth about Labour's apologists for paedophilia:

Post by Mirage on 25.02.14 15:19

@Tony Bennett wrote:
@jeanmonroe wrote:So Harlot slags of the Mail for putting out pictures of Courtney Stodden and sisters in bikinis AND then POSTS the very SAME picture herself on her twitter!

Memo to Harlot: WHEN YOU'RE IN A HOLE.......STOP DIGGING!
I have led a fairly sheltered existence so have never heard of Courtney Stodden.

I assume she must be some kind of minor celebrity.

'B' list or 'C' list or someerthing.

I assume that the Daily Mail was publishing a story about her and illustrated the feature with that pic of her and her sister in bikinis - a sight one can see on any English beach in the summer.

For Harriet Harman to dredge up that pic against the Daily Mail - when she and Patricia Hewitt and Jack Dromey and others sheltered child rapists under their wing at the NCCL, even promoting their activities, is woeful, woeful, utterly woeful.

She is obsessed with vitriolic hatred for the Mail. 

A sort of 'Mailophobe'

 

Or Hate Mail???

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