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Kate upset with Gerry?

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Re: Kate upset with Gerry?

Post by Smokeandmirrors on 18.02.14 19:55

Not sure if this is OT or not, but an observation comparing 2007 to now is this:

In the early days, discussions on the Mirror forum talked about Gerry being controlling and Kate looking scared and dominated (taking due consideration of the media madness and the situation they were in) and so forth. Now she seems the more dominant of the two, the book shows she has balls of steel etc.

It could be that she was always in possession of balls of steel, and that the early days were out of character
OR
Perhaps there is something which has given her power. Something that has given her the "whip hand".

At any rate, there has been something of an observable change, almost a reversal of roles.

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Re: Kate upset with Gerry?

Post by justathought on 18.02.14 20:00

@Smokeandmirrors wrote:Not sure if this is OT or not, but an observation comparing 2007 to now is this:

In the early days, discussions on the Mirror forum talked about Gerry being controlling and Kate looking scared and dominated (taking due consideration of the media madness and the situation they were in) and so forth. Now she seems the more dominant of the two, the book shows she has balls of steel etc.

It could be that she was always in possession of balls of steel, and that the early days were out of character
OR
Perhaps there is something which has given her power. Something that has given her the "whip hand".

At any rate, there has been something of an observable change, almost a reversal of roles.
S&M
Maybe she had balls of steel from the start. Some folks grow them when they are looking down a barrel.

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Re: Kate upset with Gerry?

Post by Guest on 18.02.14 21:09

@Loving Mom wrote:
@Portia wrote:I've said it before and I say it again:

The night she slept away from him, she robbed him of any conceivable aliby



Agreed, maybe that was the plan?  If he got caught hiding the body or doing anything illegal then she could claim (because she was in the kids bedroom all night) that she didn't know what he was up to.  If he goes to prison that still leaves her to raise the twins.
IIRC: he left the party early that night while she went on boozing with the other Tapas. Allegedly

This means, that, well known to all, he left and was absent.

Where did he go?

Who saw him there?

When did he return/or reach his own bed?

DID he reach his own bed?

How do we know?

His own wife has put herself in the position of NOT being able to confirm or deny ANY explanation her husband could conceivably come up with

He walked out on the rest of the group early and was missing for the rest of the night, till seen again the following day; which was when?

Period
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Re: Kate upset with Gerry?

Post by Watching on 18.02.14 21:58

@Loving Mom wrote:
@Portia wrote:I've said it before and I say it again:

The night she slept away from him, she robbed him of any conceivable aliby



Agreed, maybe that was the plan?  If he got caught hiding the body or doing anything illegal then she could claim (because she was in the kids bedroom all night) that she didn't know what he was up to.  If he goes to prison that still leaves her to raise the twins.
Hello,

Just a thought - If she was in the kids bedroom, then to claim she did not know what the proud father was up to, wouldn't quite wash - that is if her '3 beautiful children' as she referred to them,  were asleep in the room, as she claimed in the Tubridy Show Interview.   McCann would then have had to enter that room and take Madeleine from under her nose!   If he left the apartment and was up to something else, of course then she could claim she did not know he had done so.

Equally if Kate was up to no good at any time during that night, he could claim he was out cold and did not know of it.

My feeling is that they both were (up to no good on the Wednesday after dining out) and concocted the sleeping in separate rooms for a very specific reason.

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Re: Kate upset with Gerry?

Post by Watching on 18.02.14 22:12

I might add - the Wednesday night, is the night Mr and Mrs have suggested that Madeleine and one of the twin children were disturbed by an intruder, telling also the tale of Madeleine informing them of the crying on that night, over breakfast on the Thursday morning.

Two children awake and crying - yet Mr. staggers in after a few drinks, and none of the children stir.   Some time later, Mrs strolls in, after a few drinks, and still the children don't stir.  Given that Mrs slept in the kids room, made her way between the cots to get to the bed at the window, and having children who were prone to waking, seems odd they never stirred when either parent arrived home?  Now if Mr really left Mrs alone at the bar standing around like a spare part, and Mrs was mad at him doing this - do we believe she crept in quietly, didn't bang around a bit to annoy the snoring Mr?

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Re: Kate upset with Gerry?

Post by kimHager on 19.02.14 0:07

OK this is my theory based on what I know is ...K & G are getting toasted at the bar and of course quizmaster was making Googley eyes at G or vice versa and K got angry.. They argue at apt 5a..It turns physical... At that point M comes out of her room and ran to intervene as Lil ones do when their moms and dads fighting which no one could forsee... A hard shove at the wrong time and M gets knocked against the wall where she slides down bleeding onto the tile behind the sofa. Too much alcohol impairs judgement and the parents decide to treat her at home. Perhaps using an adult medication for the pain and all is OK (or so it seems) and G leaves to the bar again... Meanwhile K puts M in her bed to keep an eye on head wound and notices she isn't breathing... Panics... Calls(? A friend ) who comes to help with CPR... Too late... Hysterical crying for Maddie.. Someone goes finds G...he comes back and puts M in the blue bag... Knows this can't be explained without losing everything... Begs K to forgive and keep this between them... Both sleep in the twins room... And so begins the truth of the lie.

Admin this is only a theory no accusations being made..

What do you think... Possible? Filling in the blanks is so hard.

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Re: Kate upset with Gerry?

Post by kimHager on 19.02.14 0:11

Please delete if need be admin. I never know when to shush myself

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Re: Kate upset with Gerry?

Post by canada12 on 19.02.14 0:16

A long time ago, I considered this possibility, kimHager... and I still think it could be a possibility.

Kate's bruises are there and on display, and I don't buy the explanation that she was slamming her hands into the wall in frustration. They are, imo, bruises caused by restraint.

The crying could have been "Daddy" but it could just as easily have been "Maddie"... the McCanns went to great lengths to try and convince us that it was Madeleine (and / or a twin or twins) calling for "Daddy"... but as heard through a balcony door and a floor, with only one consonant different.... who knows?

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Re: Kate upset with Gerry?

Post by aquila on 19.02.14 0:25

@kimHager wrote:OK this is my theory based on what I know is ...K & G are getting toasted at the bar and of course quizmaster was making Googley eyes at G or vice versa and K  got angry.. They argue at apt 5a..It turns physical... At that point M comes out of her room and ran to intervene as Lil ones do when their moms and dads fighting which no one could forsee... A hard shove at the wrong time and M gets knocked against the wall where she slides down bleeding onto the tile behind the sofa. Too much alcohol impairs judgement and the parents decide to treat her at home. Perhaps using an adult medication for the pain and all is OK (or so it seems) and G leaves to the bar again... Meanwhile  K puts M in her bed to keep an eye on head wound and notices she isn't breathing... Panics... Calls(? A friend ) who comes to help with  CPR... Too late... Hysterical  crying for Maddie.. Someone goes finds G...he comes back and puts M in the blue bag... Knows this can't be explained without losing everything... Begs K to forgive and keep this between them... Both sleep in the twins room... And so begins the truth of the lie.

Admin this is only a theory no accusations being made..

What do you think... Possible?  Filling in the blanks is so hard.
There was a poster on this forum called 'Curioser' who made similar 'fascinating' posts.
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Re: Kate upset with Gerry?

Post by jeanmonroe on 19.02.14 1:57

And don't forget Rachel Oldfield saying about 'accidental bump on her head' and 'they would know how to resuscitate a child, or anyone else for that matter'!

RO:

"You know, if you take the common sense approach as well and just look at, you know, timings of how things happened and the fact that they’re both medics, there are four other medics in the group, they would know what to do to resuscitate a child… or anyone else for that matter. Anyone with an ounce of common sense really would be able to see that they couldn’t have done it. I was there and I know that they didn’t do it."

She never did explain what the 'IT' was they couldn't have done and the 'IT' was they didn't do.

eta; RO just blurted out the above statement, she wasn't even being asked about anything related to what she came out with!

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Re: Kate upset with Gerry?

Post by Guest on 19.02.14 2:02

and Kate saying something like, that its not like a tin of beans just fell from a shelf and landed on the floor..( to convey mrs fenns reaction on hearing of the disappearance..)
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Re: Kate upset with Gerry?

Post by kimHager on 19.02.14 3:19

Hi all
Aquila I have no idea I know it wasn't me. I didn't think my post was fascinating it just made sense. Some things just do and we'll I could be way off with what I thought. I still don't know whats allowed to be posted. I am afraid to post one or two other possible theories that could fit because it just sounds sinister.
Jeanmonroe I thought one of the tapas friends made that statement didn't remember who though.The *it* was never clarified and I'm shocked how no one of the PJ caught that..
Bellisa the tin of beans what an odd comparison maybe Kate spilled the beans lol.. Maybe instead of fighting late was throwing a can of baked beans... I wonder what the dogs would say"roll that beautiful bean footage "ROFL!!

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Re: Kate upset with Gerry?

Post by Guest on 19.02.14 11:16

@Portia wrote:
@Loving Mom wrote:
@Portia wrote:I've said it before and I say it again:

The night she slept away from him, she robbed him of any conceivable aliby



Agreed, maybe that was the plan?  If he got caught hiding the body or doing anything illegal then she could claim (because she was in the kids bedroom all night) that she didn't know what he was up to.  If he goes to prison that still leaves her to raise the twins.
IIRC: he left the party early that night while she went on boozing with the other Tapas. Allegedly

This means, that, well known to all, he left and was absent.

Where did he go?

Who saw him there?

When did he return/or reach his own bed?

DID he reach his own bed?

How do we know?

His own wife has put herself in the position of NOT being able to confirm or deny ANY explanation her husband could conceivably come up with

He walked out on the rest of the group early and was missing for the rest of the night, till seen again the following day; which was when?

Period

Portia - thank you for your insight of the night of the 2nd, I think it is significant and a time period that has not been scrutinised.  I have been suspicious of the fact that Kate informed us that they slept apart that night.
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Separate beds; another retrofit?

Post by Guest on 19.02.14 11:40

When the separate bed story came up, was that before of after the pictures of the master bedroom had become public?

Because, as you see there, the two beds were pushed together, and the one closest to the photographer was neatly made up, not slept in at all.

Only the bed nearest to the window is rumpled (you remember that window, the one whose shutters GM allegedly smashed on their first night, in a fit of manliness, according to KH?)

So: right bed slept in.
Left bed not slept in

Maddies bed not slept in
Bed underneath window in childrens room: slept in (at least rumpled)

Would it be too farfetched to assume the parent who did not sleep in his/her bed disposed of little Maddie before she used and rumpled her bed?

Just a tought
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Re: Kate upset with Gerry?

Post by PeterMac on 19.02.14 11:57

@Portia wrote:
So: right bed slept in.
Left bed not slept in
Maddies bed not slept in
Bed underneath window in childrens room: slept in (at least rumpled)
Would it be too farfetched to assume the parent who did not sleep in his/her bed disposed of little Maddie before she used and rumpled her bed?
Just a thought
Or here is another one, K comes back, crying at lack of attention, throws herself onto the bed under the window, without switching on the light, and cries herself to sleep. Sleeps badly, thrashing about, tossing and turning.
G comes back after whatever happened with the busty girl, throws himself into bed and goes to sleep, again without turning on lights.
Neither checks the children
Neither notices Madeleine dying of a brain haemorrhage behind the sofa where she fell earlier
Following morning rigor mortis, 'leakage'. and panic sets in.
Place in blue tennis bag on shelf,
take afternoon off tennis with ruptured but self-healing "achilles tendon"  ! ! !
G's afternoon unaccounted for.
Dispose / hide, then replace blue tennis bag, but 'leakage" contaminates shelf
Agree half baked idea, but fail to go into sufficient details - both "Highly intelligent" so not need to spell it all out.
And so on.

Then after the agreed story is blown wide open, start trying to retro-fit, with Last Photo moved from Sunday to Thursday, and so on.
And the rest of the slow motion car crash follows.

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Re: Kate upset with Gerry?

Post by tigger on 19.02.14 12:21

Belts and braces type of lie imo.

The one bed was very rumpled, the cots didn't have sheets.
There are several instances where either G or K  mention the twins on a bed.
Soon afterwards the blog tells us all about the twins now sleeping on real beds. As if it's big news.

For some reason it was very important to them to hide the fact that the twins didn't sleep in cots.
So we have hints from the PJ that all children (except M) were in one room together.
That would mean  the twins likely slept on a bed and were used to it. The cots could be pushed against the side of the bed to stop them falling out.

Another reason for this particular fairy story may have to do with the dog alerts in the main bedroom and the very strong denial that one of the cots was seen in the main bedroom on the Wednesday by the cleaner.

No idea why.

Another example of these seemingly pointless lies is Gerry buying sunglasses. That 's on Tuesday afternoon.
Thus  shoring up the pool photo.
G buys sunglasses  before photo is taken, therefore photo is of later date than the buying of sunglasses.

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Re: Kate upset with Gerry?

Post by kimHager on 19.02.14 12:28

Portia yes that could be what happened I only saw the beds seperated and Maddy's bed not slept in made no sense no abductor makes the bed unless they say th8e housekeeper did it? Totally agree they never thought to ruffle the bed.. They did play alot by ear I'm thinking PeterMac as they did think they could pull it all off... The confusion I don't think was planned but like the old saying goes never let your right hand. Know what the left one is doing....
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Re: Kate upset with Gerry?

Post by Cristobell on 19.02.14 12:29

@PeterMac wrote:
@Portia wrote:
So: right bed slept in.
Left bed not slept in
Maddies bed not slept in
Bed underneath window in childrens room: slept in (at least rumpled)
Would it be too farfetched to assume the parent who did not sleep in his/her bed disposed of little Maddie before she used and rumpled her bed?
Just a thought
Or here is another one, K comes back, crying at lack of attention, throws herself onto the bed under the window, without switching on the light, and cries herself to sleep. Sleeps badly, thrashing about, tossing and turning.
G comes back after whatever happened with the busty girl, throws himself into bed and goes to sleep, again without turning on lights.
Neither checks the children
Neither notices Madeleine dying of a brain haemorrhage behind the sofa where she fell earlier
Following morning rigor mortis, 'leakage'. and panic sets in.
Place in blue tennis bag on shelf,
take afternoon off tennis with ruptured but self-healing "achilles tendon"  ! ! !
G's afternoon unaccounted for.
Dispose / hide, then replace blue tennis bag, but 'leakage" contaminates shelf
Agree half baked idea, but fail to go into sufficient details - both "Highly intelligent" so not need to spell it all out.
And so on.

Then after the agreed story is blown wide open, start trying to retro-fit, with Last Photo moved from Sunday to Thursday, and so on.
And the rest of the slow motion car crash follows.



Thats probably the most likely scenario I have ever read Petermac, but it opens up the question of why on earth the tapas friends would go along with it.

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Re: Kate upset with Gerry?

Post by kimHager on 19.02.14 12:40

Tigger good point I remember the cot in the master bedroom and maybe they thought if anyone knew the twins slept in the bed someone would think they could get. Up and. Move about more freely at night??? Did they use the correct for Maddy maybe? I think there is something there we don't know and only they did what that is I don't know... I started thinking just now if I'm a parent and my child died why would I go to all this trouble...
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Re: Kate upset with Gerry?

Post by kimHager on 19.02.14 12:59

Cristobell I wonder if one of the tapas was babysitting... Maybe heard Kate come in and just left without checking the kids a last time? Possibly there because of Maddy's fall... To make sure she was OK...

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Re: Kate upset with Gerry?

Post by kimHager on 19.02.14 13:03

I think more likely they knew what happened or what K and G said happened and they were in a foreign country they banded together for the good of the children possibly so they didn't lose the twins also

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Re: Kate upset with Gerry?

Post by lj on 19.02.14 14:20

@justathought wrote:
@Smokeandmirrors wrote:Not sure if this is OT or not, but an observation comparing 2007 to now is this:

In the early days, discussions on the Mirror forum talked about Gerry being controlling and Kate looking scared and dominated (taking due consideration of the media madness and the situation they were in) and so forth. Now she seems the more dominant of the two, the book shows she has balls of steel etc.

It could be that she was always in possession of balls of steel, and that the early days were out of character
OR
Perhaps there is something which has given her power. Something that has given her the "whip hand".

At any rate, there has been something of an observable change, almost a reversal of roles.
S&M
Maybe she had balls of steel from the start. Some folks grow them when they are looking down a barrel.

In the past I used to describe Kate as a "steel magnolia", but I agree "steel balls" fits her much better.

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Re: Kate upset with Gerry?

Post by lj on 19.02.14 14:27

@PeterMac wrote:
@Portia wrote:
So: right bed slept in.
Left bed not slept in
Maddies bed not slept in
Bed underneath window in childrens room: slept in (at least rumpled)
Would it be too farfetched to assume the parent who did not sleep in his/her bed disposed of little Maddie before she used and rumpled her bed?
Just a thought
Or here is another one, K comes back, crying at lack of attention, throws herself onto the bed under the window, without switching on the light, and cries herself to sleep. Sleeps badly, thrashing about, tossing and turning.
G comes back after whatever happened with the busty girl, throws himself into bed and goes to sleep, again without turning on lights.
Neither checks the children
Neither notices Madeleine dying of a brain haemorrhage behind the sofa where she fell earlier
Following morning rigor mortis, 'leakage'. and panic sets in.
Place in blue tennis bag on shelf,
take afternoon off tennis with ruptured but self-healing "achilles tendon"  ! ! !
G's afternoon unaccounted for.
Dispose / hide, then replace blue tennis bag, but 'leakage" contaminates shelf
Agree half baked idea, but fail to go into sufficient details - both "Highly intelligent" so not need to spell it all out.
And so on.

Then after the agreed story is blown wide open, start trying to retro-fit, with Last Photo moved from Sunday to Thursday, and so on.
And the rest of the slow motion car crash follows.

Yes, I can see that.

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Re: Kate upset with Gerry?

Post by ultimaThule on 19.02.14 15:31

@PeterMac wrote:
@Portia wrote:
So: right bed slept in.
Left bed not slept in
Maddies bed not slept in
Bed underneath window in childrens room: slept in (at least rumpled)
Would it be too farfetched to assume the parent who did not sleep in his/her bed disposed of little Maddie before she used and rumpled her bed?
Just a thought
Or here is another one, K comes back, crying at lack of attention, throws herself onto the bed under the window, without switching on the light, and cries herself to sleep. Sleeps badly, thrashing about, tossing and turning.
G comes back after whatever happened with the busty girl, throws himself into bed and goes to sleep, again without turning on lights.
Neither checks the children
Neither notices Madeleine dying of a brain haemorrhage behind the sofa where she fell earlier
Following morning rigor mortis, 'leakage'. and panic sets in.
Place in blue tennis bag on shelf,
take afternoon off tennis with ruptured but self-healing "achilles tendon"  ! ! !
G's afternoon unaccounted for.
Dispose / hide, then replace blue tennis bag, but 'leakage" contaminates shelf
Agree half baked idea, but fail to go into sufficient details - both "Highly intelligent" so not need to spell it all out.
And so on.

Then after the agreed story is blown wide open, start trying to retro-fit, with Last Photo moved from Sunday to Thursday, and so on.
And the rest of the slow motion car crash follows.
As, on another thread, it took me less than 5 minutes to come up with a credible story which would have got them off the hook had such a scenario occurred, I would imagine that the combined grey matter of the Tapas 9 would have had no problem whatsoever in making it go away without resorting to literally making the body go away.

There can be only one reason why it was necessary to hide the child's body and that is her death was non-accidental and, as far as I recall, within a short time of the child's disappearance this was also the opinion of Leics police..
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Re: Kate upset with Gerry?

Post by Guest on 19.02.14 15:35

Hm. This theory of KimHager only diminishes KH's culpability.
Makes KH a loving mother, doing CPR with the big bad Gerry not around, it places the tapasmember babysitter present at what happened, and makes KH's actions not good, but somewhat understandable.
 
If I were KH and got caught, and I would not know any moral loyalty, I'd propagate this.
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