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7 Years...

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7 Years...

Post by Curious_Bystander on Thu 13 Feb 2014 - 19:05

Apologies for the "hit and run" post - I don't have very much time.

Although the Presumption of Death Act 2013 has not yet been published, to my knowledge, I wonder whether with MBM as a Ward of Court, an official pronouncement of death (after the normal seven years) would be sufficient to cause an inquest?

Certainly, the circumstances of MBM's disappearance are suspicious, which would support any perceived need for an inquest...

Do people think that there is a 'biding of time' going on before the curtains on MBM's legal status Whoosh open, in May..?

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HOW LONG BEFORE AN INQUEST IS HELD

Post by Woofer on Sun 16 Feb 2014 - 0:46

Does anyone know how long someone has to be missing before an Inquest is raised?  I wonder if it will take place after SY complete (or close) the investigation.

A couple of years ago Jailhouse Lawyer was going to apply for a death certificate so it would spark an Inquest - but I haven`t been able to get on his blog recently.  I don`t even know if what he was suggesting was possible.
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Re: 7 Years...

Post by Guest on Sun 16 Feb 2014 - 0:54

Similar asked here just a couple of days ago..

https://jillhavern.forumotion.net/t9155-7-years

Will merge threads.
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Re: 7 Years...

Post by Woofer on Sun 16 Feb 2014 - 1:01

Thanks Candyfloss.
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Re: 7 Years...

Post by ultimaThule on Sun 16 Feb 2014 - 11:08

It's a fallacy to suppose that 7 years have to elapse before an inquest can be opened or a missing person can be declared dead. 

However, in this case it would not serve any purpose for the child to be presumed or declared dead as it is highly unlikely she had any estate, as in monetary assets, which requires settlement.   

Furthermore, while the child remains a Ward of Court, only the Court can make application for a presumption or declaration of death, which I very much doubt they will be inclined to do unless at the request of the Attorney General or the parents - in which case the Court will hold a hearing to consider the merits of any such application before giving judgement in the matter.

Unrelated parties who interpret 'anyone who has an interest' as being licence to make application are likely to be given short shrift by the relevant authorities.
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Re: 7 Years...

Post by plebgate on Sun 16 Feb 2014 - 12:28

ultimaThule wrote:It's a fallacy to suppose that 7 years have to elapse before an inquest can be opened or a missing person can be declared dead. 

However, in this case it would not serve any purpose for the child to be presumed or declared dead as it is highly unlikely she had any estate, as in monetary assets, which requires settlement.   

Furthermore, while the child remains a Ward of Court, only the Court can make application for a presumption or declaration of death, which I very much doubt they will be inclined to do unless at the request of the Attorney General or the parents - in which case the Court will hold a hearing to consider the merits of any such application before giving judgement in the matter.

Unrelated parties who interpret 'anyone who has an interest' as being licence to make application are likely to be given short shrift by the relevant authorities.
I don't doubt that at all (red highlighting) after having read the response to Tony's FOI request recently.

I was flabberghasted to read that he had had a reply saying that they thought it was a vexacious request and I hope Tony does appeal.

How I remember when it was announced  (Nu Liebor) that the British public would be able to have answers to all our questions.   YEAH RIGHT GOV.

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Re: 7 Years...

Post by Curious_Bystander on Mon 17 Feb 2014 - 17:07

ultimaThule wrote:It's a fallacy to suppose that 7 years have to elapse before an inquest can be opened or a missing person can be declared dead. 

However, in this case it would not serve any purpose for the child to be presumed or declared dead as it is highly unlikely she had any estate, as in monetary assets, which requires settlement.   

Furthermore, while the child remains a Ward of Court, only the Court can make application for a presumption or declaration of death, which I very much doubt they will be inclined to do unless at the request of the Attorney General or the parents - in which case the Court will hold a hearing to consider the merits of any such application before giving judgement in the matter.

Unrelated parties who interpret 'anyone who has an interest' as being licence to make application are likely to be given short shrift by the relevant authorities.

Seven years is the customary period, however, with applications for preumption of death an option long before that period has elapsed.

I disagree, though, when you suggest that there would be no purpose served.  Upon presumption of death, it is my understanding that the 'missing person' legally becomes a decedent, which would warrant an inquest, given suspicious circumstances etc.

You are correct when you state MM is a Ward of Court and, for this reason, I think the presumption of death is only a possibility, rather than a certainty.  However, we should remember that there is to be 'no stone left unturned' and perhaps the AG might view an inquest as a logical and proper part of a full investigation.  I mean, after all, the McCanns wanted a full investigation, right?

I agree with your last statement - there will be few that could properly expect a positive response to such a request.

If the status quo is one of an amassing of evidence for an attack, metaphorically, upon the sainted pair, I would not be surprised were the court to apply a presumption of death.

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Re: 7 Years...

Post by ultimaThule on Mon 17 Feb 2014 - 22:23

If, for example, a Ward dies before attaining their majority, of if someone or someones was found to be guilty of causing the death of a Ward of Court, the death would be recorded in the usual manner.  

However, in the absence of any such events, until such time as a Wardship is discharged it is improbable that consent would be given to presume or otherwise the death of a missing Ward and, more particularly, where there is no body to prove that death has occurred. 

With regard to your question "However, we should remember that there is to be 'no stone left unturned' and perhaps the AG might view an inquest as a logical and proper part of a full investigation.  I mean, after all, the McCanns wanted a full investigation, right?" I very much doubt that, were he to have to power to do so, the AG would be minded to pre-empt the findings of Operation Grange or set any precedent whereby an inquest formed part of any such police investigations.
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