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Mail Online Comments ..Kids left in car being compared to Madeleine being left in apartment

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Mail Online Comments ..Kids left in car being compared to Madeleine being left in apartment

Post by Trust Your Instincts on 12.02.14 9:51

Story in todays Mail Online.

Mother berated for leaving her children asleep in locked car. Comparisons being made in comments to Madeleine being left in 'locked'?? apartment and look what happened to her...when will the general public finally become aware of the truth of what happened on that holiday, in particular regarding childcare?!   wft 

Had to reply to one comment, couldnt help myself. Probably wont be printed .

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-2557246/Why-I-treated-like-CRIMINAL-leaving-children-car-Some-think-unwise-did-mother-deserve-shocking-treatment-police-bullies-followed.html

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Re: Mail Online Comments ..Kids left in car being compared to Madeleine being left in apartment

Post by russiandoll on 12.02.14 10:24

This was discussed this morning on tv, presenter agreeing LF needed a reminder re child safety, a mother of 4 who leaves children for a matter of moments in a car if this is all a trip outside the vehicle will take and the children are in her line of sight.

 I don't know if the 3rd woman was a child safety expert or a former police officer, imo the latter because she said she and colleagues had been called to find a 4 year old who had managed to exit the vehicle which was in a supermarket car park [ !!] and was wandering about looking for the parent ; she had on multiple occasions attended a vehicle where children were locked in and the parent found that he/she was locked out, something wrong with the key.

 Re Laurence Fox, I found the language used about him re his child safety issues rather strong, but maybe the " disgusting " comment was not about his bad judgment but about his attitude when he was criticised.
 His 5 year old was awake, so not too problematic to take him by the hand into the chemist's.
 He asked his child was he screaming while he was gone and the child answered no, conclusion by LF  that his critic was lying or exaggerating, it seems.

 If I had asked a 5 year old if he had been screaming or crying and he replied no, when an adult had told me the opposite, I would think that my child was lying to avoid getting into trouble, especially if I had told him to sit quietly while I was gone for a couple of minutes.

Naïve about his child, lazy and irresponsible. How did he know that he would not be in a long queue? Maybe he made his decision to leave his child after observing a small queue or no queue at all.
 If he was getting a prescription, he might have had a long wait for it to be dispensed.


  Just plain daft imo not to have taken the minute to unfasten his seatbelt and ask the child to get out of the car and go with him.
 Was it pouring with rain perhaps and did he want to avoid the child getting soaked?
 That would be the only thing which would make me consider it.....but even then, any sensible parent would wait until rain was lighter and then take a child that age with him/her.

 No sympathy at all with the guy, his attitude stinks. And I would not be surprised if the appalling and disgusting were adjectives used about his response to criticism rather than his irresponsible behaviour.


 Even the fragrant LK said to her pal Aled.....we have all heard about children being left then taken haven't we, [ no names mentioned].

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Re: Mail Online Comments ..Kids left in car being compared to Madeleine being left in apartment

Post by jeanmonroe on 12.02.14 11:13

What's the difference between this car 'case' and the Madeleine 'case'?

All the car doors were LOCKED!

Quote: "Because I had left my babies sleeping in my LOCKED car, outside my house, on their own for minutes at a time."

NOT at least 35 minutes before 'checking' them in an UNLOCKED apartment , totally out of SIGHT!

8:30pm-9:05pm.................. GM!

The LAW, in the UK

It is an offence to leave a child under 16, even for a few minutes, in a locked car on their own.

Maximum sentence ...............(up to) 10 YEARS imprisonment!

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Re: Mail Online Comments ..Kids left in car being compared to Madeleine being left in apartment

Post by Trust Your Instincts on 12.02.14 11:28

Jeanmonroe, my point exactly.  thumbup 
 
So many people are still unaware Madeleine and her younger siblings were left in an unlocked apartment, night after night, out of sight .

I am reluctant to express my opinion on whether this Mother was right or wrong to leave her sleeping children locked in the car for a few minutes but I think the difference in the two cases is huge.

Hmm, doesnt look like my reply to one particular comment is being printed either  sad

Also , I think Russiandoll makes a valid point regarding the 4 year old getting out of the car to look for its parents, found wandering around the car park. Probably after it had climbed up on one of the seats to look out the window first !

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Re: Mail Online Comments ..Kids left in car being compared to Madeleine being left in apartment

Post by PeterMac on 12.02.14 11:40

@Trust Your Instincts wrote:Jeanmonroe, my point exactly.
So many people are still unaware Madeleine and her younger siblings were left in an unlocked apartment, night after night, out of sight .

Or so the McCanns insist.
There is little evidence to support this., but for the abduction scenario it is important to insist on their own criminal and serial neglect.

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Re: Mail Online Comments ..Kids left in car being compared to Madeleine being left in apartment

Post by uppatoffee on 12.02.14 12:11

I think there's a big difference between leaving your children in a locked car for a few minutes and coming and checking on them frequently like this lady, than leaving your kids in a locked/unlocked apartment while you go out on the lash with your mates to a restaurant where you cannot even see the apartment from your seat and your checking frequency is questionable.

Sounds like the police were being unnecessarily harsh to me. However this is an article in the Daily Fail, who seem to delight in putting everyone down to try and sell a few extra papers.
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Re: Mail Online Comments ..Kids left in car being compared to Madeleine being left in apartment

Post by Guest on 12.02.14 12:15

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x3eAJnjiD6g

Re PeterMac's post, here's a reminder of the McCanns' own admission that checks were only being carried out every half an hour as otherwise there could have been no "abduction".
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Re: Mail Online Comments ..Kids left in car being compared to Madeleine being left in apartment

Post by jeanmonroe on 12.02.14 12:15

Only this week, Laurence Fox, who plays DS Hathaway in Lewis, was dubbed a ‘disgusting and appalling human being’ by a police community support officer. His offence? To leave his five-year-old in the car outside a chemist’s while he nipped inside to buy medicine. When Fox asserted his son was fine, the PCSO hurled abuse.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I wonder what 'abuse' this PSCO would have 'hurled' at the MCCanns had he 'discovered' they had left three kids all under 4 years old, alone, out of sight, in a totally unlocked apartment!

'disgusting and appalling human beings'?

( sounds like C Mitchell describing people trying to 'profit' out of Madeleines 'disappearance', conveniently 'forgetting' to ever mention how much he has personally 'profited' from 'donations' to Madeleine's 'fund'  by way of £28,000 pa 'retainer' from Madeleine 'fund' and 'salary' in the last 6 years 9 months )

eta: I think there might also have been a few 'F' words 'hurled' as well!

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Re: Mail Online Comments ..Kids left in car being compared to Madeleine being left in apartment

Post by Trust Your Instincts on 12.02.14 12:25

Thank you PeterMac ...

In two sentences , you gently reminded me to challenge myself on what it is I really believe about this case!

I initially ( many years ago) believed there had been no checking on the children and the apartment had been locked, hence the open window and shutters to allow for an abduction ( which in my opinion did not take place) . When this didnt seem to wash, it was then added the patio doors were unlocked, which I believed was added as an after thought to make the abduction story more believable.

Somewhere along the line, my initial instincts and beliefs have been influenced by 'spin' , confusion sets in and its good to go back every now and again and question what you think you believe.

Great Forum.

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Re: Mail Online Comments ..Kids left in car being compared to Madeleine being left in apartment

Post by HelenMeg on 12.02.14 12:32

@Trust Your Instincts wrote:Jeanmonroe, my point exactly.  thumbup 
 
So many people are still unaware Madeleine and her younger siblings were left in an unlocked apartment, night after night, out of sight .

I am reluctant to express my opinion on whether this Mother was right or wrong to leave her sleeping children locked in the car for a few minutes but I think the difference in the two cases is huge.

Hmm, doesnt look like my reply to one particular comment is being printed either  sad

Also , I think Russiandoll makes a valid point regarding the 4 year old getting out of the car to look for its parents, found wandering around the car park. Probably after it had climbed up on one of the seats to look out the window first !
I really agree with the general consensus that there was no neglect in the Mc Cann case. It was just a rather large red  herring so that posters would discuss it at length diverting from the real issues of the case. The neglect was enacted only on the night of the 3rd May so as to enable a  'staged abduction' to take place. I am surprised that people out there are still believing in the myth of neglect ...

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Re: Mail Online Comments ..Kids left in car being compared to Madeleine being left in apartment

Post by HelenMeg on 12.02.14 12:34

Just to add, thankfully it seems that SY and PJ don't believe in the neglect myth so not to worry too much.

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Re: Mail Online Comments ..Kids left in car being compared to Madeleine being left in apartment

Post by jeanmonroe on 12.02.14 12:48

@HelenMeg wrote:Just to add, thankfully it seems that SY and PJ don't believe in the neglect myth so not to worry too much.

You're right

NO 'neglect' = NO 'abduction'

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Re: Mail Online Comments ..Kids left in car being compared to Madeleine being left in apartment

Post by whatliesbehindthesofa on 12.02.14 12:51

The neglect myth really is a master-stroke of PR. It works because doubters are likely to clutch onto the first thing that they regard as wrong, and then fail to notice the actual evidence that points in another direction.

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Re: Mail Online Comments ..Kids left in car being compared to Madeleine being left in apartment

Post by jeanmonroe on 12.02.14 12:54

@Trust Your Instincts wrote:Thank you PeterMac ...

..... hence the open window and shutters to allow for an abduction ( which in my opinion did not take place) . When this didnt seem to wash,....

Great Forum.

Didn't 'wash' with the GNR, PJ and Ocean Club manager, John Hill, within minutes of THEIR own 'checking' of the 'jemmied, smashed shutters, forced window' related to them by ONLY the McCanns!

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Re: Mail Online Comments ..Kids left in car being compared to Madeleine being left in apartment

Post by Cristobell on 12.02.14 13:45

What a shame the McCanns cannot bury the open window and the jemmied shutters. They must feel, in retrospect, that it has done the abduction story more harm than good. It was quickly proved that the shutters and the window had not been broken open, in fact if anything it confirmed it had been opened from the inside and it carried a set of Kate's fingerprints. Not even the McCanns' loopy criminologist Henri can work a believable story around it. Madeleine walked up to the open window (believing it was a parent) and the abductor lifted her out - Really? Or, the burglar not being able to reach any cash, passports, mobile phones from the open window, took the child who was conveniently standing by the open window expecting her parents to climb in.

During the book banning trial, the McCanns were forced to release a statement saying that the open window could have been a red herring, an attempt by the abductor to mislead the investigation. It sure was, but not quite in that way. The open window plagues them. It fits Jane Tanner's sighting, but that has now been dismissed. No criminologist in the world would accept that an abductor climbed out of that window without leaving a trace. They tried to backtrack, by saying the rear patio doors were always left open, and Gerry suddenly remembered that he didn't use his keys after all.

All this faux news about missing keys is meaningless. Whoever took Madeleine out of that apartment didn't need keys - the back door was open. The story may have kicked off with the open window ,but it quickly changed to the rear patio doors when it became common knowledge that there was no sign of a break in. However, if the abductor had gone out via the patio doors, he also closed them and the curtains behind him. He also closed both safety gates whilst holding the child (awkwardly) and would have been directly in front of Jane Tanner, not crossing the road in the opposite direction.

Had he entered and exited the apartment with keys via the front door, why on earth did he open the bedroom window? The rear of the apartment was overlooked by another apartment block, and metal shutters, as everyone knows, are very noisy. That open window stands out like a sore thumb for any scenario that includes keys - as indeed does the idea that any 3, almost 4 year old little girl 'who could give her tuppence worth', would sleep peacefully whilst being carried off by a stranger.

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Re: Mail Online Comments ..Kids left in car being compared to Madeleine being left in apartment

Post by tiny on 12.02.14 14:01

@jeanmonroe wrote:
@Trust Your Instincts wrote:Thank you PeterMac ...

..... hence the open window and shutters to allow for an abduction ( which in my opinion did not take place) . When this didnt seem to wash,....

Great Forum.

Didn't 'wash' with the GNR, PJ and Ocean Club manager, John Hill, within minutes of THEIR own 'checking' of the 'jemmied, smashed shutters, forced window' related to them by ONLY the McCanns!
So why are s/y letting these pair of sh**s walk free,why does,nt redwood just haul them in for a PROPER INTERROGATION.job done
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Re: Mail Online Comments ..Kids left in car being compared to Madeleine being left in apartment

Post by jeanmonroe on 12.02.14 14:24

@tiny wrote:
So why are SY letting these pair of sh**s walk free,why does not Redwood just haul them in for a PROPER  INTERROGATION. job done

Because his 'boss' is BHH, who led sponsored balloon launch, with all money raised going to McCanns private 'Find Madeleine Fund'?

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Re: Mail Online Comments ..Kids left in car being compared to Madeleine being left in apartment

Post by tiny on 12.02.14 14:34

@jeanmonroe wrote:
@tiny wrote:
So why are SY letting these pair of sh**s walk free,why does not Redwood just haul them in for a PROPER  INTERROGATION. job done

Because his 'boss' is BHH, who led sponsored balloon launch, with all money raised going to McCanns private 'Find Madeleine Fund'?

Well we might as well all go home then(not that im going anywhere) if we have coppers like this working on the case, what hope for Madeleine.
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Re: Mail Online Comments ..Kids left in car being compared to Madeleine being left in apartment

Post by russiandoll on 12.02.14 15:12

apologies, I commented on the " actor Laurence Fox left 5 yr old son in the car while he went to the chemist " incident.

 have read about this other one in the newspaper now, rather an OTT reaction from the mother.

 The arrogance, expecting a passer by who had called the police to stay around until they arrived or go knocking on doors to find out if a parent was inside.
  Breathtaking imo.

  Passer by... parent in nearby home might have intended to return quickly, but in hurrying back for the children, fell and was locked inside the house.
 Anything could happen, why the person rang the police. Maybe a bit hasty, depending on how long hs/she waited before calling the police, and the arrogant mother did not even consider when wanting this person to hang around for the police to arrive, that the person might have been on the way to collect his/ her own children, or needed to be somewhere in a hurry.
 No wonder she got a rocket from the authorities.

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Re: Mail Online Comments ..Kids left in car being compared to Madeleine being left in apartment

Post by PeterMac on 12.02.14 15:14

@Cristobell wrote:What a shame the McCanns cannot bury the open window and the jemmied shutters. . . ..
And Kate has compounded it with the "whooshing curtains" story
In her 4/5/7 statement the curtains were wide open. A year or so later they are tight closed, and demonstrated on the video by holding her forearms together, so that we know.
Then in the PJ photos the curtains are full length and trapped behind the bed and the wicker chair
And the weather reports show a flat calm night, with a light Force 3 breeze, sufficient only to move dust and light paper round.
No gusts
And in any even only on of the panes can open at a time.

It is a tissue of LIES from start to finish.

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Re: Mail Online Comments ..Kids left in car being compared to Madeleine being left in apartment

Post by russiandoll on 12.02.14 15:16

The only video clips I have seen show the sill- length nets billowing.
  Still a crock of merde though.

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Re: Mail Online Comments ..Kids left in car being compared to Madeleine being left in apartment

Post by diatribe on 12.02.14 15:31

@PeterMac wrote:


Or so the McCanns insist.
There is little evidence to support this., but for the abduction scenario it is important to insist on their own criminal and serial neglect.
Absolutely, I've stated many times on this forum that for an abduction to have transpired, there has to have been an element of neglect. The McCanns in all their wisdom, couldn't envisage this and initially tried to defy the law of gravity by denying the latter.

It was only when our 'barrow boy,' Clarence Mitchell arrived on the scene that they, albeit grudgingly, admitted that there may have been an ever so slight element of neglect involved, although to them, it was akin to having a few bevvies io their back lawn..

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Re: Mail Online Comments ..Kids left in car being compared to Madeleine being left in apartment

Post by Swannie on 12.02.14 20:41

But, if there was NO neglect, how come Mrs Fenn heard Madeleine crying for over an hour one night??

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Re: Mail Online Comments ..Kids left in car being compared to Madeleine being left in apartment

Post by tiny on 12.02.14 20:45

@Swannie wrote:But, if there was NO neglect, how come Mrs Fenn heard Madeleine crying for over an hour one night??
It might have been Kate crying
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Re: Mail Online Comments ..Kids left in car being compared to Madeleine being left in apartment

Post by ProfessorPPlum on 12.02.14 21:03

@Trust Your Instincts wrote:Thank you PeterMac ...

In two sentences , you gently reminded me to challenge myself on what it is I really believe about this case!

I initially ( many years ago) believed there had been no checking on the children and the apartment had been locked, hence the open window and shutters to allow for an abduction ( which in my opinion did not take place) . When this didnt seem to wash, it was then added the patio doors were unlocked, which I believed was added as an after thought to make the abduction story more believable.

Somewhere along the line, my initial instincts and beliefs have been influenced by 'spin' , confusion sets in and its good to go back every now and again and question what you think you believe.

Great Forum.
Sorry to quote all but mobile and editing quotes becomes all but impossible on iPhone. Yes, totally agree with PeterMacs reminder there. Back to the basics: everything from the McCs is considered to be a falsehood. No abduction, then also no checking routine because no 'leaving children in locked/unlocked apartment'; no 'Mummy why didn't you come when...?" etc etc.

The facts are: MBM missing, no evidence of abduction. Dogs alert to cadaver and blood. T9 stories highly inconsistent. McCann behaviour over last 7 years combative and focused on controlling the media - consistent with something to hide. 

End of facts. We should stop discussing '35 mins checking' or '...when MO did this' or 'JT did that...' Until we regain that discipline we are sadly doing CM's work for him...as of course they intended.

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