Sunday Express 9 Feb 2014 - MADELEINE - There REALLY WAS a COVER-UP

Woofer wrote:@ Durham Guy - the door swings back behind the end of the wardrobes.  GA didn`t think an intruder could fit behind the door and obviously didn`t think anyone could fit in the wardrobe.

DurhamGuy1967 wrote:I've read lots about this and never realised the variety of layout plans for 4a. 

I found this on [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]  The caption says..."This is the 1st picture to show the interior of Madeleine's bedroom, from where she was allegedly abducted. The picture was taken through the front window after the police had completed their forensic investigation" [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
Where is the door? 

j.rob wrote:

but I think it is true that Madeleine may well have been removed ('taken') from the apartment that evening. The McCanns were behind what happened but it doesn't mean they necessarily physically removed Madeleine or her body. Maybe the chaos that ensued, before the police arrived, provided a cover for a person to scuttle away, perhaps, carrying Madeleine.

Portia wrote:

DurhamGuy1967 wrote:I've read lots about this and never realised the variety of layout plans for 4a. 

I found this on [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]  The caption says..."This is the 1st picture to show the interior of Madeleine's bedroom, from where she was allegedly abducted. The picture was taken through the front window after the police had completed their forensic investigation" [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
Where is the door? 

Is this really the childrens' bedroom?

Where are the cots?

Whence the baby-chair?

How come the bedding is all askew?

Tangled Web wrote:

Portia wrote:

DurhamGuy1967 wrote:I've read lots about this and never realised the variety of layout plans for 4a. 

I found this on [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]  The caption says..."This is the 1st picture to show the interior of Madeleine's bedroom, from where she was allegedly abducted. The picture was taken through the front window after the police had completed their forensic investigation" [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
Where is the door? 

Is this really the childrens' bedroom?

Where are the cots?

Whence the baby-chair?

How come the bedding is all askew?

It looks like a different room to me too.

diatribe wrote:

j.rob wrote:

but I think it is true that Madeleine may well have been removed ('taken') from the apartment that evening. The McCanns were behind what happened but it doesn't mean they necessarily physically removed Madeleine or her body. Maybe the chaos that ensued, before the police arrived, provided a cover for a person to scuttle away, perhaps, carrying Madeleine.

But who and for what reason would a friend or acquaintance agree to participate in a criminal enterprise with the McCanns. It couldn't have been for money because at the time the McCanns were financially strapped for cash. None of their associates would have been criminally minded, let alone had any previous dealings with the police, thereby making them extremely vulnerable to the slightest pressure exerted by the aforementioned. Lets have it right, as was the case with the Krays, there wasn't a staunch henchman such as George Foreman on hand to dispose of a body.

Would you put your trust in a straight person to dispose of a body for you with any confidence. The McCann's friends weren't people with vast criminal experience who had grown up together on the mean streets of South London, they were university graduates from middle class backgrounds who'd scream like stuck pigs at the very thought of a few hrs. in police custody. Gerry McCann's entire cavalier attitude of 'Prove it if you can' oozes confidence that Madeleine's body will never be discovered and that type of confidence doesn't emanate from a person who knows that his destiny lays in the hands of others who could expose him at any time.

As previously stated, there is no honour amongst friends any more than there is with thieves and with the amount of money and offers of immunity from prosecution, you can bet your last cent that had anyone possessed such information, the McCanns would have been offered up as sacrificial lambs many moons ago.There are only two people on this planet who know for certain that Madeleine is dead and where her remains are interred. They are the same two who are perpetually attempting to convince the world and his wife that she is still alive. Whilst this illusion is maintained, it makes it more difficult for the authorities to instigate charges against them and also keeps their donation fund ticking over.

candyfloss wrote:I thought that was a mirror (not window partition)  as there was a chest of drawers there originally I think, and it was over that.

worriedmum wrote:Just looking at the picture above again,I am surprised Matt didn't say ' I thought she was in the bed under the window'.
To paraphrase Kate,''I looked at the bed and I couldn't quite make it out, was that the bedding or was that Madeleine..''

Matt would have seen bedding rumpled and his view obscured by two cots.

SO

I repeat, AT WHAT POINT DID MATT KNOW WHICH BED MADELEINE WAS SLEEPING IN?

Also,
HOW COULD MATT 'MAKE OUT THE TWINS BREATHING' BUT KATE COULDN'T TELL IF IT WAS' MADELEINE OR THE COVERS'? 

The bed looks tidier on other pictures, with the covers neatly folded back. Which would fit in with Gerry's version of Madeleine lying on top of the covers?
[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

Clocker wrote:

worriedmum wrote:Just looking at the picture above again,I am surprised Matt didn't say ' I thought she was in the bed under the window'.
To paraphrase Kate,''I looked at the bed and I couldn't quite make it out, was that the bedding or was that Madeleine..''

Matt would have seen bedding rumpled and his view obscured by two cots.

SO

I repeat, AT WHAT POINT DID MATT KNOW WHICH BED MADELEINE WAS SLEEPING IN?

Also,
HOW COULD MATT 'MAKE OUT THE TWINS BREATHING' BUT KATE COULDN'T TELL IF IT WAS' MADELEINE OR THE COVERS'? 

The bed looks tidier on other pictures, with the covers neatly folded back. Which would fit in with Gerry's version of Madeleine lying on top of the covers?
[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

Mathew states he never saw M.  The following is in his statement with LP.

"So I just sort of went towards the doorway, I didn't step over the threshold, I didn't see Madeleine and I didn't check, I turned round and came back out,"


Rachel, said he never saw M. The following is in her statement with LP. 


"he didn’t put his head round the door to see if Madeleine was in her bed, but he said he did wonder where she slept, erm poked his head, well you know kind of looked into Gerry and Kate’s room, just saw there was a double bed there, so you know, assumed they were all in together or, I mean I think he knew that they were all in together, erm but he didn’t actually look to see whether Madeleine was there or not”.


Yet he saw the bed by the window was empty, it was also unmade, I wonder why he didn't presume that was M's and wondered where she was? Because he did wonder where she slept because he looked in K and G's room but saw she wasn't there. 


He also says later in his statement: 


Reply "No, no, we've talked about that before, I didn't smell anything, I mean, I could see the children breathing, but I didn't clock it as abnormal, erm, it'd be completely to speculate to say whether their breathing was fast or, I couldn't say, I mean, they were breathing and that's what, you know, and that was what I was there to check, erm, no, no funny sort of smells, no sort of funny draughts, no sort of funny sort of noises, no, erm, nothing that I can think of for that. I mean, it was a complete just a shock out of the blue when, you know, I'd been in and then suddenly somebody's saying Madeleine's missing, there was nothing that made me think, oh".


If that is what he was checking i wonder why he didn't check to see if M was breathing? 

aquila wrote:2 beds, one headboard - perhaps the burglars nicked a headboard.

Seriously, it's below bog standard accommodation (compare it with the super duper living area in the Met Crimewatch programme (UK production).

ultimaThule wrote:

aquila wrote:2 beds, one headboard - perhaps the burglars nicked a headboard.

Seriously, it's below bog standard accommodation (compare it with the super duper living area in the Met Crimewatch programme (UK production).

Before the travel cots were placed in the room, it contained 2 single beds separated by a small bedside chest of drawers and positioned under the headboards which are fixed to the wall. 

The chest of drawers shown partially hiding one of the headboards was situated under the mirror which is fixed to the wall against which one of the single beds has been pushed, with the other bed having been moved to under the window which opens on to the front of the apartment.

stillsloppingout wrote:

Clocker wrote:

worriedmum wrote:Just looking at the picture above again,I am surprised Matt didn't say ' I thought she was in the bed under the window'.
To paraphrase Kate,''I looked at the bed and I couldn't quite make it out, was that the bedding or was that Madeleine..''

Matt would have seen bedding rumpled and his view obscured by two cots.

SO

I repeat, AT WHAT POINT DID MATT KNOW WHICH BED MADELEINE WAS SLEEPING IN?

Also,
HOW COULD MATT 'MAKE OUT THE TWINS BREATHING' BUT KATE COULDN'T TELL IF IT WAS' MADELEINE OR THE COVERS'? 

The bed looks tidier on other pictures, with the covers neatly folded back. Which would fit in with Gerry's version of Madeleine lying on top of the covers?
[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

Mathew states he never saw M.  The following is in his statement with LP.

"So I just sort of went towards the doorway, I didn't step over the threshold, I didn't see Madeleine and I didn't check, I turned round and came back out,"


Rachel, said he never saw M. The following is in her statement with LP. 


"he didn’t put his head round the door to see if Madeleine was in her bed, but he said he did wonder where she slept, erm poked his head, well you know kind of looked into Gerry and Kate’s room, just saw there was a double bed there, so you know, assumed they were all in together or, I mean I think he knew that they were all in together, erm but he didn’t actually look to see whether Madeleine was there or not”.


Yet he saw the bed by the window was empty, it was also unmade, I wonder why he didn't presume that was M's and wondered where she was? Because he did wonder where she slept because he looked in K and G's room but saw she wasn't there. 


He also says later in his statement: 


Reply "No, no, we've talked about that before, I didn't smell anything, I mean, I could see the children breathing, but I didn't clock it as abnormal, erm, it'd be completely to speculate to say whether their breathing was fast or, I couldn't say, I mean, they were breathing and that's what, you know, and that was what I was there to check, erm, no, no funny sort of smells, no sort of funny draughts, no sort of funny sort of noises, no, erm, nothing that I can think of for that. I mean, it was a complete just a shock out of the blue when, you know, I'd been in and then suddenly somebody's saying Madeleine's missing, there was nothing that made me think, oh".


If that is what he was checking i wonder why he didn't check to see if M was breathing? 

Spoke once to the only snapper who has ever took pics in that room. ex screws . He said could not believe how small the room actually is ,and he also changed his opinion re this case based on that fact. "  this has been said a few times too
the " trouble is every body knows  they did It, it's just proving it "

Woofer wrote:Screws = prison warders

aquila wrote:

Woofer wrote:Screws = prison warders

My understanding of 'screws' in this context was 'News of the Screws' which was 'News of the World'.

Woofer wrote:

aquila wrote:

Woofer wrote:Screws = prison warders

My understanding of 'screws' in this context was 'News of the Screws' which was 'News of the World'.

Oh - could be - maybe my understanding was determined by the poster`s name being `stillslopingout`  

aquila wrote:

Woofer wrote:Screws = prison warders

My understanding of 'screws' in this context was 'News of the Screws' which was 'News of the World'.

aquila wrote:

Woofer wrote:Screws = prison warders

My understanding of 'screws' in this context was 'News of the Screws' which was 'News of the World'.

brixham wrote:It has always struck me as strange that MO checks on the children to the degree that he can discern that the twins are breathing ( to quote –“I mean, they were breathing and that's what, you know, and that was what I was there to check”) but does not even know if Maddie is present.

But if you look again at what he actually says, he says he was there to check if the twins were breathing – not to check if they were there.

So a possible scenario could be that GM is taking such a long time with his 9.05 check that when MO gets up to check at 9.30, KM asks him to check if all is OK.  On arrival at 5a MO finds a distraught GM with Maddie, injured or worse. A panicked  GM asks MO to check if the twins are breathing.

Only my opinion.