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Now, here's a question, as the McCanns have ADMITTED to leaving the patio door "unlocked and unsecured" has a crime even been commited?

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Now, here's a question, as the McCanns have ADMITTED to leaving the patio door "unlocked and unsecured" has a crime even been commited?

Post by jeanmonroe on 25.01.14 12:57

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2545632/We-drug-addict-sons-bedroom-police-wont-anything.html

We found a drug addict in our son's bedroom... but the police won't do anything
Drug addict Mark Hill, 24, was found sleeping in a four-year-old's bedroom
James and Tanja Compton chased the bearded stranger out of their home
Despite confessing to trespass, Hill was only prosecuted for drug offences

As he got into house THROUGH an UNLOCKED door NO crime was commited.
Police told couple trespass is a civil matter so they dropped all charges

He was arrested and admitted he had been in the boy’s room. But to the astonishment of Mr Attrill and Miss Compton, police dropped all the charges and let him go.
Officers told the couple that Hill had been cautioned for drug offences but otherwise had not broken the law - as he had gained access to the house through the back door, which had been left UNLOCKED.
Hill, of Newport, Isle of Wight, is believed to have got in through the back door, which had been UNLOCKED to let the family dog out earlier that morning.
The ONLY action that could be taken was for trespass – which is a civil matter, not a criminal offence.
‘He has admitted he was there. But still the police won’t do anything about it.’
‘Surely it must be against the law for a stranger to go into a little boy’s bedroom without his parents’ consent.’

Police told the couple he could NOT be pursued for BURGLARY or breaking and entering as he HAD ENTERED VIA AN UNSECURED DOOR.
Hampshire Police said: ‘A man was arrested on suspicion of criminal damage and drugs offences. He was released with no further action in respect of criminal damage and was given a formal caution for drugs offences.

" NO other criminal offences were identified" by our officers.’
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Does anyone KNOW if a 'similar' law exists in Portuguese Law, in regard to burglers not commiting a criminal offence by gaining access to a property through 'unlocked and unsecured' doors?

IF there is such a law, in Portugal, that only leaves the McCanns being able to bring a 'civil action' against anyone, and that only for 'trespass'

IF there is such a law, in Portugal, that only leaves the Met, being able to charge 'the three burglars', with......er, um, i don't exactly know what with!

Any 'guesses'?

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Re: Now, here's a question, as the McCanns have ADMITTED to leaving the patio door "unlocked and unsecured" has a crime even been commited?

Post by MRNOODLES on 25.01.14 13:12

jeanmonroe wrote:http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2545632/We-drug-addict-sons-bedroom-police-wont-anything.html

We found a drug addict in our son's bedroom... but the police won't do anything
Drug addict Mark Hill, 24, was found sleeping in a four-year-old's bedroom
James and Tanja Compton chased the bearded stranger out of their home
Despite confessing to trespass, Hill was only prosecuted for drug offences

As he got into house THROUGH an UNLOCKED door NO crime was commited.
Police told couple trespass is a civil matter so they dropped all charges

He was arrested and admitted he had been in the boy’s room. But to the astonishment of Mr Attrill and Miss Compton, police dropped all the charges and let him go.
Officers told the couple that Hill had been cautioned for drug offences but otherwise had not broken the law-as he had gained access to the house through the back door, which had been left UNLOCKED.
Hill, of Newport, Isle of Wight, is believed to have got in through the back door, which had been UNLOCKED to let the family dog out earlier that morning.
The ONLY action that could be taken was for trespass – which is a civil matter, not a criminal offence.
‘He has admitted he was there. But still the police won’t do anything about it.’
‘Surely it must be against the law for a stranger to go into a little boy’s bedroom without his parents’ consent.’

Police told the couple he could NOT be pursued for BURGLARY or breaking and entering as he HAD ENTERED VIA AN UNSECURED DOOR.
Hampshire Police said: ‘A man was arrested on suspicion of criminal damage and drugs offences. He was released with no further action in respect of criminal damage and was given a formal caution for drugs offences.

" NO other criminal offences were identified" by our officers.’
--------------------------------------------------------------------

Does anyone KNOW if a 'similar' law exists in Portuguese Law, in regards to burglers not commiting a criminal offence by gaining access to a property through 'unlocked and unsecured' doors?

IF there is such a law, in Portugal, that only leaves the McCanns being able to bring a 'civil action' against anyone, and that only for 'trespass'

IF there is such a law, in Portugal, that only leaves the Met, being able to charge 'the three burglars', with......er, um, i don't exactly know what with!


Therefore they're not actually burglars. Come to think of it, they'll be no different to a mystery couple entering an unlocked door to comfort a crying child as it were.
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Re: Now, here's a question, as the McCanns have ADMITTED to leaving the patio door "unlocked and unsecured" has a crime even been commited?

Post by PeterMac on 25.01.14 14:25

Technically and legal the police were correct.
Burglary consists of
Entering as a Trespasser, but then must include the intent to
steal, commit damage, rape, or arson.
(Or having entered as a trespasser does one or two of those things)

Merely wandering into someone's house or onto their land is a civil tort
If the door is not locked then the police cannot even charge Criminal damage, which is the usual standby
( - and also a complete mystery as to why they don't arrest squatters who have usually broken the lock to gain access.)

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Re: Now, here's a question, as the McCanns have ADMITTED to leaving the patio door "unlocked and unsecured" has a crime even been commited?

Post by plebgate on 25.01.14 14:38

It is strange why he decided to sleep in the 4 year old's bedroom though.   Of all the rooms why choose the child's room in which to "fall asleep"?

If he had stolen something of value or indeed the child he would have been charged with an offence no doubt.   If not then why do shops even bother contacting the police when people steal an item of value from their them.   They not only leave their doors open for thousands to enter but also advertise and ask people to walk in, but they do expect people to pay for the items not to steal them.     

So I am guessing that as Maddie was "stolen" a crime was definitely commited even though the doors were left unlocked.

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Re: Now, here's a question, as the McCanns have ADMITTED to leaving the patio door "unlocked and unsecured" has a crime even been commited?

Post by Guest on 25.01.14 14:51

plebgate wrote:

So I am guessing that as Maddie was "stolen" a crime was definitely commited even though the doors were left unlocked.

Ah, but when you only have the parents' word for it that she was there in the first place? (Imagine what a strange sentence that would be, in the case of any family other than this one....)
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Re: Now, here's a question, as the McCanns have ADMITTED to leaving the patio door "unlocked and unsecured" has a crime even been commited?

Post by PeterMac on 25.01.14 14:57

Clay Regazzoni wrote:
plebgate wrote:
So I am guessing that as Maddie was "stolen" a crime was definitely commited even though the doors were left unlocked.
Ah, but when you only have the parents' word for it that she was there in the first place? (Imagine what a strange sentence that would be, in the case of any family other than this one....)
Well quite. Only the parents say that Madeleine was alive on 3rd. There is little or no convincing evidence to corroborate their claims.
The rest of the Tapas crew are fairly sure they didn't see her (apart from 30 second Payne who can't even remember pink pyjamas and who can usefully be ignored)
The creche sheets can be ignored, as Kate helpfully confirms in her book.

There is a school of thought which holds on consideration of the admittedly sparse evidence available, that Madeleine Beth McCann was probably not alive on 3rd May 2007.

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Re: Now, here's a question, as the McCanns have ADMITTED to leaving the patio door "unlocked and unsecured" has a crime even been commited?

Post by jeanmonroe on 25.01.14 14:59

plebgate wrote:It is strange why he decided to sleep in the 4 year old's bedroom though.   Of all the rooms why choose the child's room in which to "fall asleep"?

If he had stolen something of value or indeed the child he would have been charged with an offence no doubt.   If not then why do shops even bother contacting the police when people steal an item of value from their them.   They not only leave their doors open for thousands to enter but also advertise and ask people to walk in, but they do expect people to pay for the items not to steal them.     

So I am guessing that as Maddie was "stolen" a crime was definitely commited even though the doors were left unlocked.

WOW!
"So I am guessing that as Maddie was "stolen" a crime was definitely commited even though the doors were left unlocked"

That's a bold statement to make!

As there is not a scintilla of evidence that Madeleine was 'stolen' by anyone  i think we'd better stick to saying 'missing' from 5A

And also not a scintilla of evidence that a crime was 'definitely commited'

Trish Cameron: 4th May 2007 “Nothing had been touched in the apartment, no valuables taken, no passports"

So NO 'crime' commited there then!

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Re: Now, here's a question, as the McCanns have ADMITTED to leaving the patio door "unlocked and unsecured" has a crime even been commited?

Post by plebgate on 25.01.14 15:04

The police are investigating on the info given by Maddie's parents.   They have said that Maddie has been "stolen".  Why have I made a bold statement in posting that.?

Also JM look at the title of your thread, it asked would a crime have been commited if the doors had been left open, that is what my post is based on.

edited - spelling

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Re: Now, here's a question, as the McCanns have ADMITTED to leaving the patio door "unlocked and unsecured" has a crime even been commited?

Post by PeterMac on 25.01.14 15:14

plebgate wrote:The police are investigating on the info given by Maddie's parents.   They have said that Maddie has been "stolen".  Why have I made a bold statement in posting that.?
Not even Carter-Ruck went as far as that.
Even Mrs Mattorell admitted, under oath, on cross examination by TB in the High Court of England, that there was no evidence that Madeleine had been abducted = stolen
And the McCanns paid stooge Mitchell said it was only a "working hypothesis"
Only very determined people are using the word "abducted" now.
Most are sticking to "missing".


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Re: Now, here's a question, as the McCanns have ADMITTED to leaving the patio door "unlocked and unsecured" has a crime even been commited?

Post by russiandoll on 25.01.14 15:17

Including Redwood. MISSING, WENT MISSING, DISAPPEARED, DISAPPEARANCE.  SMITHMAN ,THE MAN WHO TOOK MADELEINE.

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Re: Now, here's a question, as the McCanns have ADMITTED to leaving the patio door "unlocked and unsecured" has a crime even been commited?

Post by jeanmonroe on 25.01.14 15:21

Crossed wires?

Perhaps you should have put in your post 'as the parents have said Madeleine was 'stolen' not '"So I (you) am guessing that as Maddie was "stolen".........

And i personally, would go as far as saying 'ONLY the parents of the 'missing child' have SAID she was 'stolen' i repeat, ONLY the two parents have said that!

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Re: Now, here's a question, as the McCanns have ADMITTED to leaving the patio door "unlocked and unsecured" has a crime even been commited?

Post by plebgate on 25.01.14 15:26

jeanmonroe wrote:Crossed wires?

Perhaps you should have put in your post 'as the parents have said Madeleine was 'stolen' not '"So I (you) am guessing that as Maddie was "stolen".........
Yes crossed wires it seems JM.   That's why I put the quotes in.   smilie

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Re: Now, here's a question, as the McCanns have ADMITTED to leaving the patio door "unlocked and unsecured" has a crime even been commited?

Post by jeanmonroe on 25.01.14 15:30

So, on and on and on we goes,
Where we'll end, nobody knows.

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Re: Now, here's a question, as the McCanns have ADMITTED to leaving the patio door "unlocked and unsecured" has a crime even been commited?

Post by jeanmonroe on 25.01.14 15:43

Back on topic:
If, IF, the Portuguese do have a law saying one cannot be charged with burglary or breaking and entering through an unlocked or unsecured door and if no valuables have been taken from the 'property' what criminal charges could possibly be brought against 3 burglars that haven't burgled anything, after having been questioned by the PJ with Met officers 'in attendance'?

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Re: Now, here's a question, as the McCanns have ADMITTED to leaving the patio door "unlocked and unsecured" has a crime even been commited?

Post by Lioned on 25.01.14 17:29

Maybe they nicked the blue 'tennis' bag as it is still missing ?

Suppose Madeleine was not there on the night of the third (already gone) but they got burgled at the most awkward moment.
Sorry gone off on a bit of a tangent there.
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Re: Now, here's a question, as the McCanns have ADMITTED to leaving the patio door "unlocked and unsecured" has a crime even been commited?

Post by Nina on 25.01.14 18:15

Lioned wrote:Maybe they nicked the blue 'tennis' bag as it is still missing ?

Suppose Madeleine was not there on the night of the third (already gone) but they got burgled at the most awkward moment.
Sorry gone off on a bit of a tangent there.

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Re: Now, here's a question, as the McCanns have ADMITTED to leaving the patio door "unlocked and unsecured" has a crime even been commited?

Post by jeanmonroe on 25.01.14 18:27

BACK OT.

IS there a Law in Portugal that states it is a criminal offence to enter an unlocked or unsecured property?

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Re: Now, here's a question, as the McCanns have ADMITTED to leaving the patio door "unlocked and unsecured" has a crime even been commited?

Post by littlepixie on 25.01.14 20:07

PeterMac wrote:Technically and legal the police were correct.
Burglary consists of
Entering as a Trespasser, but then must include the intent to
steal, commit damage, rape, or arson.
(Or having entered as a trespasser does one or two of those things)

Merely wandering into someone's house or onto their land is a civil tort
If the door is not locked then the police cannot even charge Criminal damage, which is the usual standby
( - and also a complete mystery as to why they don't arrest squatters who have usually broken the lock to gain access.)

Which is why the Police did nothing when a convicted sex offender entered the grounds of my house and was knocking on my daughters bedroom window in the middle of the night. Civil Trespass was not a Police matter.
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Re: Now, here's a question, as the McCanns have ADMITTED to leaving the patio door "unlocked and unsecured" has a crime even been commited?

Post by suep on 26.01.14 10:27

Lioned wrote:Maybe they nicked the blue 'tennis' bag as it is still missing ?

Suppose Madeleine was not there on the night of the third (already gone) but they got burgled at the most awkward moment.
Sorry gone off on a bit of a tangent there.

Maybe they nicked the blue tennis bag which unknown to them contained a body...

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Re: Now, here's a question, as the McCanns have ADMITTED to leaving the patio door "unlocked and unsecured" has a crime even been commited?

Post by Jemmied_Shatter on 26.01.14 20:56

So who the hell are SY hoping to interview? The apartment wasn't burgled it was just an innocent person walking in from the street. Nothing was stolen, even if they say we saw no children asleep the police have to believe them. The people who sanction international police investigations must be raking it in, money for the oldest of rope springs to mind as whatever they so called discover is worth the square root of diddly squat.

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Re: Now, here's a question, as the McCanns have ADMITTED to leaving the patio door "unlocked and unsecured" has a crime even been commited?

Post by Guest on 26.01.14 22:40

Jemmied_Shatter wrote:So who the hell are SY hoping to interview? The apartment wasn't burgled it was just an innocent person walking in from the street. Nothing was stolen, even if they say we saw no children asleep the police have to believe them. The people who sanction international police investigations must be raking it in, money for the oldest of rope springs to mind as whatever they so called discover is worth the square root of diddly squat.

Which innocent person walking in from the street JS?
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Re: Now, here's a question, as the McCanns have ADMITTED to leaving the patio door "unlocked and unsecured" has a crime even been commited?

Post by Jemmied_Shatter on 26.01.14 23:16

dantezebu wrote:
Jemmied_Shatter wrote:So who the hell are SY hoping to interview? The apartment wasn't burgled it was just an innocent person walking in from the street. Nothing was stolen, even if they say we saw no children asleep the police have to believe them. The people who sanction international police investigations must be raking it in, money for the oldest of rope springs to mind as whatever they so called discover is worth the square root of diddly squat.

Which innocent person walking in from the street JS?

Anybody. It is after all only trespassing which is a civil offence. The "suspects of interest" are burglars. But they stole nothing! Unless SY are either playing a dangerous game or have ulterior motives then they will never get to the truth without arresting Kate McCann and (deleted).  A little unlikely in todays climate. I am convinced that right now the only thing that is going to reveal the truth is the sway of public opinion and the revelations of the witnesses that night IE the Tapas 7. The honeyed "we are ready to make arrests" drip fed to us from the tabloids surely cannot fool anyone.

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Re: Now, here's a question, as the McCanns have ADMITTED to leaving the patio door "unlocked and unsecured" has a crime even been commited?

Post by worriedmum on 27.01.14 9:18

suep wrote:
Lioned wrote:Maybe they nicked the blue 'tennis' bag as it is still missing ?

Suppose Madeleine was not there on the night of the third (already gone) but they got burgled at the most awkward moment.
Sorry gone off on a bit of a tangent there.

Maybe they nicked the blue tennis bag which unknown to them contained a body...
The bag you are discussing is pictured here on a shelf in the McCanns' bedroom. The picture was taken by the police after Madeleine disappeared.
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Re: Now, here's a question, as the McCanns have ADMITTED to leaving the patio door "unlocked and unsecured" has a crime even been commited?

Post by sami on 27.01.14 9:27

My understanding of the references to burglars in the recent articles, is that it was the "profession" of these men, not that they are suspected of specifically carrying out the crime of burglary within apartment 5a.  So perhaps they are witnesses in this instances and given the lengths somebody seems to have gone to discredit them already, they might be important witnesses.  Of course, that is all subject to them actually existing in the first place.

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Re: Now, here's a question, as the McCanns have ADMITTED to leaving the patio door "unlocked and unsecured" has a crime even been commited?

Post by Jemmied_Shatter on 27.01.14 9:29

Jemmied_Shatter wrote:
dantezebu wrote:
Jemmied_Shatter wrote:So who the hell are SY hoping to interview? The apartment wasn't burgled it was just an innocent person walking in from the street. Nothing was stolen, even if they say we saw no children asleep the police have to believe them. The people who sanction international police investigations must be raking it in, money for the oldest of rope springs to mind as whatever they so called discover is worth the square root of diddly squat.

Which innocent person walking in from the street JS?

Anybody. It is after all only trespassing which is a civil offence. The "suspects of interest" are burglars. But they stole nothing! Unless SY are either playing a dangerous game or have ulterior motives then they will never get to the truth without arresting Kate McCann and (deleted).   Give her a 70s Gene Hunt interview A little unlikely in todays climate. I am convinced that right now the only thing that is going to reveal the truth is the sway of public opinion and the revelations of the witnesses that night IE the Tapas 7. The honeyed "we are ready to make arrests" drip fed to us from the tabloids surely cannot fool anyone.

Fixed that for you
 spin 

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