Re: CMTV THE DISAPPEARANCE OF MADELEINE McCANN: CRIME SCENE RECONSTRUCTION

by **tigger** 07.01.14 16:06

Portia wrote:
Bellisa wrote:well done for translations,I have been keen to read this since programme aired.
It certainly has shown some information that hasn't been available before.
M Wright-very surprised he seems so heavily involved,crazy they were using taxis while had a hire car at their disposal.
D Payne-yvonne Martins statements seem a little clearer to me now and personally I believe the whole group were aware of the truth behind the Gaspar statements.
Great read, The lengths Goncalo Amaral has gone to for Madeleine supersede anything her parents have ever done.

RED ALERT HERE:

From what we know so far, Yvonne Martin has never positively identified "the man with the Mecs" as having been connected to the events in the Gaspar statements, let alone as being named David Payne!

She has never alluded to the Gaspar statements AFAIC, and we don't know if she has had access to these statements

From : The statements of Yvonne Warren Martin.
Yvonne Martin is shown photographs of Dr David Payne]

On 13th June, 2007 at the Portimao DIC, Yvonne Warren Martin appeared before me, José Monteiro, Inspector, in order to proceed with photographic recognition. When asked, she described the suspect and she was shown photographs of various individuals who made up the McCann couple holiday group. Upon seeing the photographs, she recognised David Anthony Payne, an individual who appeared in several photographs, as being the person she referred to in her statements and who she supposedly had known on another occasion.
Unquote

by Doug D 07.01.14 16:21

Yvonne Martin

Her next statement adds:

Processos Vol XIII Pages 3430 – 3433 14^th November 2007

“She adds that her hypothesis is that she may have come to know him professionally through work, potentially having been colleagues at work or have worked at the same place but she cannot be certain where she met him as she does not remember…………

She declares that one of her main aims when she wrote the anonymous letter was for the British police to check the paedophile or child abusers registers and whether David Payne was on that list.”

by tiny 07.01.14 16:27

Doug D wrote:Yvonne Martin

Her next statement adds:

Processos Vol XIII Pages 3430 – 3433 14^th November 2007

“She adds that her hypothesis is that she may have come to know him professionally through work, potentially having been colleagues at work or have worked at the same place but she cannot be certain where she met him as she does not remember…………

She declares that one of her main aims when she wrote the anonymous letter was for the British police to check the paedophile or child abusers registers and whether David Payne was on that list.”

Yvonne Martin couldn't make it any plainer,that and the Gaspars, it don't look good for payne

by bobbin 07.01.14 16:32

tiny wrote:
Doug D wrote:Yvonne Martin

Her next statement adds:

Processos Vol XIII Pages 3430 – 3433 14^th November 2007

“She adds that her hypothesis is that she may have come to know him professionally through work, potentially having been colleagues at work or have worked at the same place but she cannot be certain where she met him as she does not remember…………

She declares that one of her main aims when she wrote the anonymous letter was for the British police to check the paedophile or child abusers registers and whether David Payne was on that list.”

Yvonne Martin couldn't make it any plainer,that and the Gaspars, it don't look good for payne

Based on the above, I still do not feel that there has been a clear explanation from Jim Gamble / CEOPS, for why Gerry and Kate McCann have file numbers attached to their names, but which have no contents in them.

by jay2001 07.01.14 17:12

This transcript should be in all UK media - it would certainly open a few eyes!

Thanks to everyone who brought this to the forum.

by Guest 07.01.14 17:27

Why haven't they all been taken in for serious questioning ? I do try to keep faith in SY and AR and understand there are difficulties with two police

forces in different countries, but reading this surely they have enough reasons? Yet from where I'm standing they appear to be treated with kid gloves.

(only my opinion of course.)

by tiny 07.01.14 17:35

daffodil wrote:Why haven't they all been taken in for serious questioning ? I do try to keep faith in SY and AR and understand there are difficulties with two police

forces in different countries, but reading this surely they have enough reasons? Yet from where I'm standing they appear to be treated with kid gloves.

(only my opinion of course.)

exactly,it seems the mccanns have hired sy as their own investigators,still at the moment they are on par with edgar and cowley

by Praia 07.01.14 18:20

Daffodil, love the name, the PJ have one shot at this, imo. The McCann's and their circle of friends have had access to some of the best legal advice in the world. We have seen all the " discrepancies " in their statements and they have been pulled to pieces and every word pondered by people worldwide. The problem is the McCann's et al have read what has been pointed out and had time to come up with explainations and cover stories, imo.

So the PJ's case needs to be watertight.

by Praia 07.01.14 18:21

Just to add, that was the reasoning behind Ms Healy's bewk of fiction, ass covering, imo.

by gbwales 07.01.14 18:33

Thanks so much for the translation and posting.

Some seriously jaw-dropping stuff in there - not least how GA came by the Gaspar Statements!

by Guest 07.01.14 18:37

Praia wrote:Daffodil, love the name, the PJ have one shot at this, imo. The McCann's and their circle of friends have had access to some of the best legal advice in the world. We have seen all the " discrepancies " in their statements and they have been pulled to pieces and every word pondered by people worldwide. The problem is the McCann's et al have read what has been pointed out and had time to come up with explainations and cover stories, imo.

So the PJ's case needs to be watertight.

I understand that Praia, truly I do. What I struggle with is understanding why they have been backed from the start by such powerful people.

What could possibly make them so special ??

My heart goes out to GA. This frustrates me immensely, I can't begin to understand how frustrating and difficult it must be for him.

by Praia 07.01.14 18:44

I know, I have no words to express my admiration for Dr Amaral and his family.

I think the cover up goes beyond the McCann's and co. What the heck was a member of one of the richest families in the world doing on "holiday" with his sons in the Ocean Club, in truth a glorified Butlin's in the sun.
BTW the cost of the MW package was crazy, I do not understand why so many well off families were on holiday there at that time of the year when the weather can not be guaranteed.
Imo, some were there for other reasons.

by Praia 07.01.14 19:03

To add, an amazing amount of Doctor's, people related to science fields there.

Check out something long known by many locals that the staff said Gerry was the one who came and sat down before the alarm was raised, not ROB.

by Olympicana_Reloaded 07.01.14 21:12

Praia wrote:Wow, just wow.... Perhaps this topic should be a sticky admin? I can't believe members are posting about Sonia Poultin and not commenting on this.

Look at what Dr Amaral says about the Gasper statements, he appears to confirm Payne bathed the children on occasion, the 30 second - 30 minute confusion, the possibility of a paedophile within the group.

Everyone interested in justice for Madeleine Beth McCann needs to read, reread and reflect on what Dr Amaral says here.

I am going to do just that.

Thank you so much whoever did the translation.

Its certainly a 'possibility' Praia.

CEOP, for example, has started using the following behavioural typologies, which were developed on the basis of first-hand research and practical work with travelling child sex offenders: “opportunity instigation” (taking advantage of holiday environments to abuse children), “self-contained abuse” (travelling abroad in the company of intended child victims), “speculative exploring” (travelling abroad to locations where children are reported to be available for sex), “informed networking” (arranging in advance to abuse children at a specific location), “resident foreigner abuse”(abuse by foreigner resident in developing countries), “pseudo-care work”(professionals and volunteers abusing the children with whom they work), “Internet-facilitated offending overseas” (using the Internet to abuse children in foreign countries).

In addition, an increasing number of tourists are renting or owning property, thereby having access to a private venue in which to exploit children, reducing the risk of being detected by hotel staff, other tourists or concerned locals.

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United Nations General Assembly
Human Rights Council

by TMH 07.01.14 21:19

Wow!! Thanks for posting this and for the hard work of the translators!

DP should obviously be investigated thoroughly, I've had my suspicions about him for a long time. How can they cover all this up? All the evidence is there! I just wish they'd hurry up and pull their fingers out!

by bobbin 07.01.14 21:41

Olympicana_Reloaded wrote:
Praia wrote:Wow, just wow.... Perhaps this topic should be a sticky admin? I can't believe members are posting about Sonia Poultin and not commenting on this.

Look at what Dr Amaral says about the Gasper statements, he appears to confirm Payne bathed the children on occasion, the 30 second - 30 minute confusion, the possibility of a paedophile within the group.

Everyone interested in justice for Madeleine Beth McCann needs to read, reread and reflect on what Dr Amaral says here.

I am going to do just that.

Thank you so much whoever did the translation.

Its certainly a 'possibility' Praia.

CEOP, for example, has started using the following behavioural typologies, which were developed on the basis of first-hand research and practical work with travelling child sex offenders: “opportunity instigation” (taking advantage of holiday environments to abuse children), “self-contained abuse” (travelling abroad in the company of intended child victims), “speculative exploring” (travelling abroad to locations where children are reported to be available for sex), “informed networking” (arranging in advance to abuse children at a specific location), “resident foreigner abuse”(abuse by foreigner resident in developing countries), “pseudo-care work”(professionals and volunteers abusing the children with whom they work), “Internet-facilitated offending overseas” (using the Internet to abuse children in foreign countries).

In addition, an increasing number of tourists are renting or owning property, thereby having access to a private venue in which to exploit children, reducing the risk of being detected by hotel staff, other tourists or concerned locals.

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United Nations General Assembly
Human Rights Council

This truly saddens me because I think it may be getting close to the truth IMO.
There was a time when adverts for Ocean Club /Mark Warner holidays had the usual blurb about good for this, for that, for families. Then it had the word, boys, as if added but attached to nothing, just 'boys'. The next year it had 'girls' added. Then I have been unable to find it any more. It just advertises the normal good for couples, families etc.
The 'boys' 'girls' made me think immediately, 'available' ? What ? It was discussed a bit on the fora, maybe MM as well as here. It was a long time back. Does anyone have any memory of this.

by Guest 07.01.14 21:51

bobbin i can't share links on phone but vaguely remember that from burgau thread?

by Guest 07.01.14 22:42

No wonder the mccanns are trreatened by amaral ... Very smart man and quite a threat to them as he seems to have a very good handle on what probably happened and thepolitical interference that has been a feature of this right from the start. Wish we could have such reporting done here rather than the drivel the media put out on this case.

Bobbin - i remember finding via the internet way back machine previous versions of the jaconto e murat website The company had some involvement with robert murat and they owned and maintained holiday properties including the infamous burgau apartment. There were some questionable keywords on that website on archived versions of the site including boys , girls, sex so this might be what you are referring to. Think it was on the burgau topic .. Or It will be under my postings ..

Found it - page 20 of burgau topic:

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by Guest 07.01.14 22:47

[quote="Olympicana_Reloaded"

CEOP, for example, has started using the following behavioural typologies, which were developed on the basis of first-hand research and practical work with travelling child sex offenders: “opportunity instigation” (taking advantage of holiday environments to abuse children), “self-contained abuse” (travelling abroad in the company of intended child victims), “speculative exploring” (travelling abroad to locations where children are reported to be available for sex), “informed networking” (arranging in advance to abuse children at a specific location), “resident foreigner abuse”(abuse by foreigner resident in developing countries), “pseudo-care work”(professionals and volunteers abusing the children with whom they work), “Internet-facilitated offending overseas” (using the Internet to abuse children in foreign countries).

In addition, an increasing number of tourists are renting or owning property, thereby having access to a private venue in which to exploit children, reducing the risk of being detected by hotel staff, other tourists or concerned locals.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

United Nations General Assembly
Human Rights Council[/quote]

This is what concerns me so much. Noone has an excuse not to be informed nowadays with the [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] As obscene or difficult we find it, the

situation has to be faced head on. It happens, it is ongoing. It occurs in the western world as well as elsewhere. Personally I believe certain people

in a professional capacity are deemed 'above reproach' in society nowadays, which allows them freedom to behave in a manner which is totally

unacceptable and - dare I say it - unnatural.

Somebody has to stand up for the innocents.

I don't mean to disrupt the thread, so admin feel free to delete.

by sonic72 08.01.14 4:31

Amaral is like a real life Columbo!

This has really helped get an even clearer picture of this case.

I do fear that no justice will ever happen for Madeline, and this will carry on being a complete white wash.

by canada12 08.01.14 6:56

I remember this issue being very cautiously touched on in the previous forums back in 2007-2009, years before the Jimmy Saville scandal and the child porn investigations blew the lid off how pervasive and entrenched this kind of thing was among some very high profile individuals and, indeed, in the population at large.

Back then, any hint of this sort of thing in the forum discussions was roundly leaped on by disrupters. Anyone who even dared raise the suggestion that something like this might have been at the heart of what happened was accused of having a filthy mind, of smearing the image of an innocent child, etc etc.

A lot of people saw the photos of M with eye makeup and in poses that made them wonder. And they didn't have filthy minds, they just asked questions that came about as a result of these pictures, the statements of the Gaspers, the obvious pact of silence among the Tapas 9, their non-cooperation with the investigation, etc.

One reason why there seemed to be such a high-level of protection and "cover up" might be because the people who might be involved in this sort of thing might have included high-level individuals. And because of the level of protection we might never know who those individuals might have been, whether they were there that week, whether they departed discreetly, etc.

All of this just imho and my memory of the early speculation on other forums "back then".

The other thing that occurred to people was that the high level of protection and "cover up" might have been because of the investigations into child porn that were going on at the time - specifically Operation Ore. It's possible that finding out what happened to Madeleine might have, in some way, compromised Operation Ore's investigations.

Again, imho and my memory of the early speculation.

by Praia 08.01.14 10:48

For any new poster's or reader's, I and many others who have followed this from day one believe Apt 5A was probably not used as a holiday apartment by the McCann's and they stayed elsewhere. There was a huge thread, "What was 5A really used for?" if people want more to ponder. I am certain as I can be there was no neglect and the other children were looked after probably in the Payne's larger apt.

Whatever happened to Madeleine happened in the first few days, IMO. God love her and God Bless Dr Amaral, Sofia Leal and family.

by Guest 08.01.14 11:00

Thank you, Praia, for your interesting and thought-provoking post. I'm newish here and have much to read, but do not believe M. was taken on 3rd but something happened earlier in the week. Who would have been looking after the children - one of the parents or a hired babysitter?

by bobbin 08.01.14 12:44

Stewie wrote:No wonder the mccanns are trreatened by amaral ... Very smart man and quite a threat to them as he seems to have a very good handle on what probably happened and thepolitical interference that has been a feature of this right from the start. Wish we could have such reporting done here rather than the drivel the media put out on this case.

Bobbin - i remember finding via the internet way back machine previous versions of the jaconto e murat website The company had some involvement with robert murat and they owned and maintained holiday properties including the infamous burgau apartment. There were some questionable keywords on that website on archived versions of the site including boys , girls, sex so this might be what you are referring to. Think it was on the burgau topic .. Or It will be under my postings ..

Found it - page 20 of burgau topic:

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Thank you Stewie, that is absolutely what I was looking for.
Clear as day, the key words, 'sex' 'boys' 'girls' were there on the Murat Holiday apartment advertising and removed once forum members started highlighting this information.
For any posters who have not studied this thread, please take the time to go through it. It is possibly much more significant than previously imagined.

by flamingboy 08.01.14 13:44

Praia wrote:For any new poster's or reader's, I and many others who have followed this from day one believe Apt 5A was probably not used as a holiday apartment by the McCann's and they stayed elsewhere. There was a huge thread, "What was 5A really used for?" if people want more to ponder. I am certain as I can be there was no neglect and the other children were looked after probably in the Payne's larger apt.

Whatever happened to Madeleine happened in the first few days, IMO. God love her and God Bless Dr Amaral, Sofia Leal and family.

Thanks for that Praia. I appreciate the differing views and slants that allow a more fuller picture especially, as you say, for new poster's / readers. With respect, having followed the unfolding events from day one, this I'm sure shows how well read up you all are.

By the same token; it highlights how little some of us know and are only now being introduced to. I was reading late last night threads going back to 2010/11. Old news to you guys but revelations to the newbies. All necessary if we are to have some understanding of what's really been going off. It is and was devastating what happened to Madeleine. How so very, very sad.

Peace & Love x

by Praia 08.01.14 13:48

Hi Ladyinred, nice to "meet" you. There was an adult member of the party either sick or missing nearly every night, but some feel one of the nannies could have been used. One was called Pauline McCann and much older than the other nannies who seemed to be young girls there to earn cash and party. Check Pauline out in the files, she is more GM and KM's age.

by Praia 08.01.14 13:51

Flamingboy, you are right, just keep reading, questioning things for yourself and spread the word if possible.
I hope we all find peace this year, Madeleine has been exploited in every way possible by greedy people all over the world. Enough is enough.

by flamingboy 08.01.14 14:07

Praia wrote:....... There was a huge thread, "What was 5A really used for?".........

Please can somebody tell me how to find this particular thread so I can read up on it?

Thanks in advance.

by Guest 08.01.14 14:10

also if anyone can easily pinpoint Pauline mccann thread too never heard her name before,thanks praia.

by Guest 08.01.14 14:13

flamingboy wrote:
Praia wrote:....... There was a huge thread, "What was 5A really used for?".........

Please can somebody tell me how to find this particular thread so I can read up on it?

Thanks in advance.

Welcome flamingboy, it is here....

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