The Complete Mystery of Madeleine McCann™
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The Complete Mystery of Madeleine McCann™
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Post by IAmNotMerylStreep 26.12.13 22:36

Babalou wrote:Hi NickE - I have to confess that I am not that well-informed on the libel trial (hence me reading this excellent thread to gen up), but I would love to know the answer to your question.  Wasn't the guy that testified for them just some kind of crisis counsellor? Claims of "depression" etc, would SURELY have to be backed up by medical notes/testimony of a qualified medical practitioner, and it should be proven that the depression was not a pre-existing condition.

Surely the death of your first born would cause more depression than a book?
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Post by Guest 26.12.13 22:43

@IAmNotMerylStreep wrote:
Surely the death of your first born would cause more depression than a book?
 That would be a logical assumption...
To me the McCanns have NEVER looked as "depressed" as they do right now with 2 separate police investigations ongoing, and a growing army of unbelievers. I think they realise that the balance is about to be tipped, and the number of dissenters will be too great for their media monitoring team to control - the cat is well and truly out of the bag.
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Post by PeterMac 27.12.13 7:50

A few details about Pike, and why the judge threw him out  . . .

http://joana-morais.blogspot.com/2013/09/kate-considered-committing-suicide.html
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-490317/I-dont-know-long-hold-says-Kate-McCanns-anxious-mother.html

Clarence Mitchell said: "It is beyond offensive to suggest Kate is suicidal. She is not."

Pike is NOT a qualified Psychiatrist, nor a qualified Psychologist.
This was discovered when he was questioned by the defence lawyer for Guerra and Paz as to his qualifications, his profession.
GP = Guerra and Paz
AP = Alan Pike
Transcript from Court:-
GP – What exactly is your profession?
AP - replies that he is a crisis counsellor.
GP - asks whether he is a psychologist?
AP - says he has some competences in psychology (psychology was one of the elements in his degree)
GP - asks again "are you a psychologist?"
AP - NO
Pity it was not asked - What is his 'degree?'

http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/HELP.htm
ALAN PIKE
MARTIN ALDERTON AND ALAN PIKE (Trauma Counsellors - Centre for Crisis Psychology)
Mark Warner flew out two specialist counsellors to help comfort the McCanns, spending time with the couple through the traumatic days. Leicestershire police sent three family liaison officers. Alan Pike and Martin Alderton from the Centre for Crisis Psychology (whose headquarters are in Skipton, North Yorkshire) flew to Portugal soon after the youngster vanished from the family’s holiday apartment in Praia da Luz on May 3. They have played a vital behind-the-scenes role ever since, both in helping the couple deal with the aftermath of the crime and the devastation of being made official suspects. Martin Alderton became a Partner at the Centre for Crisis Psychology in May 2003 after a number of years as a senior consultant. Before joining CCP Martin worked as a social worker for 13 years specialising in mental health care; most recently he was the manager of a multi-disciplinary community mental health team. Martin also set up and coordinated a Crisis Response Service. Since joining CCP Martin has provided clinical support following the 2003 South Africa Coach Crash in which 6 British Holidaymakers were killed, and the 2003 Manchester Motorway minibus crash in which 7 people were killed. Martin regularly provides crisis aftercare, psychological debriefing and training, and is responsible for the quality control of service delivery. Alan Pike is one of the Clinical Partners at the Centre. He worked as a social worker in Manchester from 1990 to 2004. Alan’s core work as a social worker was in child protection with children from 0-16 years old and their families. His experience in trauma aftercare includes cases of domestic violence, child abuse, child death, and loss and bereavement following adoption. Since joining CCP in 2004 he has been involved in consulting and supporting staff and customers for companies following incidents including the Gran Canaria coach crash (2004), personal attacks, child abduction, terrorist bombings (Sharm el Sheikh 2005), shootings, robberies, hurricanes (Emily, Wilma 2005), drowning and staff bereavement. Alan was made a Clinical Partner in December 2005 and together with consulting also delivers training to CCP customers. The couple's psychologist, Alan Pike, who counselled them every day for a fortnight in May, said Mrs McCann was threatened with losing her other children, two-year-old twins Sean and Amelie.

http://www.ccpsupport.co.uk/Our%20People
Alan Pike, Clinical Partner
Before joining CCP, Alan spent 14 years as a social worker in child protection, working with children from 0-16 years old and with their families. His experience in trauma aftercare includes involvement in cases of domestic violence, child abuse, child death and loss and bereavement following adoption.

Alan was made Clinical Partner in December 2005 and as well as consulting he also delivers training to CCP customers.

http://www.linkedin.com/in/alanpikeccp
Alan Pike
Experienced professional in trauma care, employee assistance, and training at CCP

Alan Pike's Overview
Current
Clinical Partner & Trauma Consultant at CCP
Past
Clinical Consultant at CCP
Child Protection Social Worker at Local Government
Education
The Manchester Metropolitan University

Alan Pike's Summary
My experience is predominantly in the field of supporting employers and their people at times of stress and trauma, by delivering a range of support over a short period of time, focussed on them returning to normal routines as quickly as possible. This ensures a rapid recovery, minimal disruption to the organisation and promotes the the long term psychological health of the individuals concerned. CCP work accross a range of industries including retail, logistics, transport, energy, travel and tourism, leisure and hotels, and construction.

Specialties
- Face to face clinical support
- Telephone based counselling
- Training/preparation of those responding to trauma at work
- Mediation
- Online/E mail counselling.
- Flexibility to deliver support worldwide across all industries

Alan Pike's Experience
Clinical Partner & Trauma Consultant
CCP
Partnership; 11-50 employees; Professional Training & Coaching industry

September 2004 – Present (9 years 3 months)

I am currently a Partner at CCP, a leading UK company who specialise in providing psychological care and employee assistance to orgainisations, their employees, and their customers.

Clinical Consultant
CCP
September 2004 – October 2005 (1 year 2 months)

Clinical Consultant delivering trauma care to the employees and customers of CCP's wide range of clients.

Child Protection Social Worker
Local Government
September 1999 – August 2004 (5 years)

My role involved the protection of children in South Manchester in and area team, working with families experiencing domestic violence, child abuse, and fostering and adoption.

Alan Pike's Skills & Expertise
EAP Coaching Crisis Management Stress ManagementCounseling Psychology Leadership Development Mediation StressChange Management Interviews NLP Management Development TrainingTeamwork Culture Change Psychotherapy Personal DevelopmentPsychology Healthcare Succession Planning
View All (28) Skills

Alan Pike's Education
The Manchester Metropolitan University
BA (Hons) Social Science, Psychology
1986 – 1989

__________________________________________________________________________
So he's got a BA in Social Science and joint Psychology from a Poly-versity !
NO PROFESSIONAL QUALIFICATIONS AT ALL.


See later.
IF you get a 2:2  (!) you can join the next stage and be eligible for the training.
He obviously didn't, or he would have it all over his CV.
And that only if you Major in Psy. for the last two years.  did he even do that.
_________________________________________________________


http://www2.mmu.ac.uk/study/undergraduate/courses/2014/10656/
BA/BSc Combined Honours

Psychology / Sociology 2014 entry
This course allows you to combine the scientific study of human behaviour with an understanding of social relations, social structures and how they influence all aspects of our lives.

Psychology focuses on the central areas of psychological enquiry and the methods used for the study of human behaviour. Studying sociologywill help you to form your own judgements about the fundamental social changes shaping the world today. If you major in psychology in Years 2 and 3 and achieve a 2:2, you will be eligible for Graduate Basis for Chartered Membership with the British Psychological Society.

Year of entry 2014

Length 3 years full-time · 6 years part-time
UCAS code(s) CL83
Fees UK and EU full-time students: £9,000 · Non-EU full-time international students: £11,000
Location
Your studies will be split between two campuses. Psychology is based at the Birley Fields campus and Sociology at the All Saints campus.

Department Faculty of Health, Psychology and Social Care
Features & benefits of the course
Allows you to combine the study of two different subjects.
Choose the balance of your subjects in Years 2 and 3 of the degree.
If you take a major or named route in psychology, complete the required units and achieve a 2:2, you will be eligible for Graduate Basis for Chartered Membership with the British Psychological Society – necessary for training to become a Chartered Psychologist.

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Post by plebgate 27.12.13 9:33

Good post PeterM, the judge was right to throw him out then  Didn't even provide a "real" doctor to give evidence or medical report then?   Two doctors should have known how important it was to the action to provide this and their solicitor, so I have to asked myself what on earth is going on??????
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Post by Smokeandmirrors 27.12.13 9:43

@plebgate wrote:Good post PeterM, the judge was right to throw him out then  Didn't even provide a "real" doctor to give evidence or medical report then?   Two doctors should have known how important it was to the action to provide this and their solicitor, so I have to asked myself what on earth is going on??????

From what I understand from the transcripts of the proceedings, and the supposed basis for the trial, coupled with the very weak and substandard representation from McCann witnesses, is once again that their egos and sense of entitlement have replaced reality and fact.

They live in a dream world where they think they can say or do anything with impunity, dictate and control police investigations, demand obedience from others whilst causing misinformation and obfuscation themselves.

Their case was, and remains, completely inadequate and devoid of substance.

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Post by PeterMac 27.12.13 9:53

what "Real Doctor" is going to swear on oath that they are suffering . . .

LIBEL TRIAL DISCUSSION HERE   - Page 3 <a href=LIBEL TRIAL DISCUSSION HERE   - Page 3 Big_gr10" />
LIBEL TRIAL DISCUSSION HERE   - Page 3 <a href=LIBEL TRIAL DISCUSSION HERE   - Page 3 Punch_10" />
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Post by aiyoyo 27.12.13 10:03

@plebgate wrote:Good post PeterM, the judge was right to throw him out then  Didn't even provide a "real" doctor to give evidence or medical report then?   Two doctors should have known how important it was to the action to provide this and their solicitor, so I have to asked myself what on earth is going on??????

Judge didn't exactly throw him out, but caught him out, rather embarrassing for him.

Even had he possessed the right qualification his statements should be heavily discounted, if not totally disregarded because his friendship with Kate renders it personal hence biased and not professional at all.  

All the rest of their witnesses were caught out as well as being inadequate.
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Post by Tony Bennett 27.12.13 10:04

And, in June 2011, when relaxing with friends, and no TV cameras are looking:


LIBEL TRIAL DISCUSSION HERE   - Page 3 Gerry_16

LIBEL TRIAL DISCUSSION HERE   - Page 3 Gerry_17

____________________

Dr Martin Roberts: "The evidence is that these are the pjyamas Madeleine wore on holiday in Praia da Luz. They were photographed and the photo handed to a press agency, who released it on 8 May, as the search for Madeleine continued. The McCanns held up these same pyjamas at two press conferences on 5 & 7June 2007. How could Madeleine have been abducted?"

Amelie McCann (aged 2): "Maddie's jammies!".  

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Post by aiyoyo 27.12.13 10:05

@PeterMac wrote:what "Real Doctor" is going to swear on oath that they are suffering . . .

LIBEL TRIAL DISCUSSION HERE   - Page 3 <a href=LIBEL TRIAL DISCUSSION HERE   - Page 3 Big_gr10" />
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LIBEL TRIAL DISCUSSION HERE   - Page 3 <a href=LIBEL TRIAL DISCUSSION HERE   - Page 3 Rome__10" />

Not this pair, especially if Defence can use photo as exhibit illustration.  
So happy photos post the book release should come in handy for Defence team.

Holland 'bewk' promotion pic...for example
TV Interview pic...
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Post by aiyoyo 27.12.13 10:08

@Tony Bennett wrote:And, in June 2011, when relaxing with friends, and no TV cameras are looking:


LIBEL TRIAL DISCUSSION HERE   - Page 3 Gerry_16

LIBEL TRIAL DISCUSSION HERE   - Page 3 Gerry_17

If Defence team were to produce these pics in Court, the source will be exposed.
Metadata of the pics would be important for the purpose.
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Post by PeterMac 27.12.13 10:09

All the rest of their witnesses were caught out as well as being inadequate.
And in one famous - infamous - case , caught out Reading from the crib sheet
In others admitting that they were simply repeating what they had been told to say

Rather like Mrs Mattorell in the High Court, who also admitted under oath, during cross examination, that she was merely repeating what she had been told to say - by the principal suspects
And she was doing it for money.

Were the others being paid, one wonders ?
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Post by aiyoyo 27.12.13 10:10

@Smokeandmirrors wrote:
@plebgate wrote:Good post PeterM, the judge was right to throw him out then  Didn't even provide a "real" doctor to give evidence or medical report then?   Two doctors should have known how important it was to the action to provide this and their solicitor, so I have to asked myself what on earth is going on??????

From what I understand from the transcripts of the proceedings, and the supposed basis for the trial, coupled with the very weak and substandard representation from McCann witnesses, is once again that their egos and sense of entitlement have replaced reality and fact.

They live in a dream world where they think they can say or do anything with impunity, dictate and control police investigations, demand obedience from others whilst causing misinformation and obfuscation themselves.

Their case was, and remains, completely inadequate and devoid of substance.

Defence team should and can capitalise on the flaws and weaknesses as part of their closing statements.
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Post by PeterMac 27.12.13 10:11

For people who have paid a fortune - of other people's money, obviously - to experts for "managing" their image, they have been remarkable lax about what they have allowed into the public domain.

Biut then one remembers the definition of an Expert.

It is derived from two latin words
Ex - meaning a "has been"
Spurt - a drip under pressure
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Post by Guest 27.12.13 10:25

@PeterMac wrote:For people who have paid a fortune - of other people's money, obviously - to experts for "managing" their image, they have been remarkable lax about what they have allowed into the public domain.

Biut then one remembers the definition of an Expert.

It is derived from two latin words
Ex - meaning a "has been"
Spurt - a drip under pressure

Aww my dad who is no longer with us used to always say that.
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Post by aiyoyo 27.12.13 10:55

@PeterMac wrote:
All the rest of their witnesses were caught out as well as being inadequate.
And in one famous - infamous - case , caught out Reading from the crib sheet
In others admitting that they were simply repeating what they had been told to say

Rather like Mrs Mattorell in the High Court, who also admitted under oath, during cross examination, that she was merely repeating what she had been told to say - by the principal suspects
And she was doing it for money.

Were the others being paid, one wonders ?


The crib sheet reader also lied in many areas.  
Most of them were caught out lying in fact.
A couple of them were caught out not having done their homework

Depending whether they went in good faith  or in professional capacity.  
One assumes at least a few, if not all, were paid.  No reason why all this professional would work FOC for the Mccanns.
Even if only travel costs were borne by the Fund it is frivolous spending of other people's money ring fenced for the search.
Using it for this purpose is unlawful and they're obliged to repay if found guilty.
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Post by Guest 27.12.13 11:15

@aiyoyo wrote:
The crib sheet reader also lied in many areas.  
Most of them were caught out lying in fact.
A couple of them were caught out not having done their homework

Depending whether they went in good faith  or in professional capacity.  
One assumes at least a few, if not all, were paid.  No reason why all this professional would work FOC for the Mccanns.
Even if only travel costs were borne by the Fund it is frivolous spending of other people's money ring fenced for the search.
Using it for this purpose is unlawful and they're obliged to repay if found guilty.
If and when they are finally found guilty of being involved in their daughter's disappearance, I hope that all the people they have tried to ruin financially and emotionally are recompensed, either from their remaining assets, or if needs be via the government - it would be a bill running into millions of pounds though! Their bully boy tactics of "criticise me and I'll sue" are disgusting. I dearly hope that they lose the libel trial and if they appeal, that they lose that as well, thus emptying the coffers. I cannot wait for the day when they can no longer afford to pay all the people who are employed to cover up the truth.
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Post by Guest 27.12.13 18:23


"Not sure how I feel about seeing Mr Amaral – for the first time ever, I hasten to add! I know I'm not scared but that man has caused us so much upset and anger because of how he has treated my beautiful Madeleine and the search to find her. He deserves to be miserable and feel fear."

Narcissists go into rages in which they blame and criticize others.
They seem like small children throwing huge tantrums, frightening those around them. The anger of narcissists is not only frightening, it is demeaning. Their criticism evolves from their steadfast conviction that others don’t meet their high standards–or worse, that others aren’t letting them get their own way. “Narcissistic injuries,” or wounds to the ego, are often the impetus for narcissistic rages- which can be manifested as aggressive or passive-aggressive, planned out or impulsive. They feel they are superior to you and that you have displeased them; therefore, they feel you deserve whatever punishment they will dole out.

If as is probable, the trial goes against them I don't think it will end there.
It will be another huge narcissitic injury. There will be consequences. Narcissists don't just turn around and say "sorry I was wrong". Would an immediate appeal be enough, who knows.
Feeling fear is an obsession of KMs. How will it manifest next?
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Post by Doug D 27.12.13 19:33

What grounds are they likely to be able to appeal on?
From reading the transcripts & comment, they seem to be fighting a lost (& ill prepared) cause. They apparently tried to settle (pull out?) with GA at the beginning of the year, but he refused. ID looks as though she is now going through the motions and let her no. 2 represent her on Day 10. Unless the Judge comes out with something very strange in her final judgement, giving them some sort of grounds, surely the advice to them will be to let it go, with a statement accepting the verdict , but trying to deflect away from the underlying conclusions people will reach.
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Post by Guest 27.12.13 19:38

@Doug D wrote:What grounds are they likely to be able to appeal on?
From reading the transcripts & comment, they seem to be fighting a lost (& ill prepared) cause. They apparently tried to settle (pull out?) with GA at the beginning of the year, but he refused. ID looks as though she is now going through the motions and let her no. 2 represent her on Day 10. Unless the Judge comes out with something very strange in her final judgement, giving them some sort of grounds, surely the advice to them will be to let it go, with a statement accepting the verdict , but trying to deflect away from the underlying conclusions people will reach.
I believe they are so deluded (and narcissistic) that they won't be able to accept defeat and go away tail between legs. I hope they appeal and leave themselves penniless thus unable to bully anyone else with the threat of litigation.
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Post by Cristobell 27.12.13 20:37

Babalou wrote:
@aiyoyo wrote:
The crib sheet reader also lied in many areas.  
Most of them were caught out lying in fact.
A couple of them were caught out not having done their homework

Depending whether they went in good faith  or in professional capacity.  
One assumes at least a few, if not all, were paid.  No reason why all this professional would work FOC for the Mccanns.
Even if only travel costs were borne by the Fund it is frivolous spending of other people's money ring fenced for the search.
Using it for this purpose is unlawful and they're obliged to repay if found guilty.
If and when they are finally found guilty of being involved in their daughter's disappearance, I hope that all the people they have tried to ruin financially and emotionally are recompensed, either from their remaining assets, or if needs be via the government - it would be a bill running into millions of pounds though! Their bully boy tactics of "criticise me and I'll sue" are disgusting. I dearly hope that they lose the libel trial and if they appeal, that they lose that as well, thus emptying the coffers. I cannot wait for the day when they can no longer afford to pay all the people who are employed to cover up the truth.





I don't think that day is very far off Babylou and welcome btw  smilie 

I think the money is already running out and I wonder how many, if any, people are still being paid by the Fund - from the poor turn out in Lisbon, I don't think there is anyone left. During Tony's trial the McCanns had Queen's Counsel and wall to wall barristers and lawyers - by comparison Isabel Duarte looks very small and alone.

A couple of other people have mentioned an Appeal, but I can't see it. They did not want to go through with this trial, so are unlikely to prepare for another, even if Isabel agreed, which I think would be very unlikely.

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Post by Guest 27.12.13 20:51

Thank you for the welcome, Cristobell winkwink 
You are probably right that they won't appeal, but with their out-of-control egos you never know! Absolutely staggering that as plaintiffs they tried to settle out-of-court anyway - says it all really. They are not interested in justice; they just want a quick buck and for no-one to point the finger at them. It will be interesting to see what happens if the money dries up - that will change the game completely (though I do hope that they don't have loads squirrelled away in offshore accounts as has been suggested.)
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Post by Smokeandmirrors 27.12.13 20:57

Babalou wrote:Thank you for the welcome, Cristobell winkwink 
You are probably right that they won't appeal, but with their out-of-control egos you never know! Absolutely staggering that as plaintiffs they tried to settle out-of-court anyway - says it all really. They are not interested in justice; they just want a quick buck and for no-one to point the finger at them. It will be interesting to see what happens if the money dries up - that will change the game completely (though I do hope that they don't have loads squirrelled away in offshore accounts as has been suggested.)


We know from published accounts what went into the fund, but what we do not know, obviously, is what personally named cheques may have been sent to Kate and Gerry, or cash in envelopes (so distastefully suggested in early TV reporting). It is possible that a great deal of funds were sent direct to Rothley and never saw the fund balance sheets.

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Post by Guest 27.12.13 21:13

Smoke and Mirrors - YUK, that's a horrible thought - them gleefully opening envelopes stuffed with cash and cheques! Hopefully there won't be too much more of that going on, ditto celebrities bunging them huge amounts of loot.
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Post by Smokeandmirrors 27.12.13 21:18

Babalou wrote:Smoke and Mirrors - YUK, that's a horrible thought - them gleefully opening envelopes stuffed with cash and cheques! Hopefully there won't be too much more of that going on, ditto celebrities bunging them huge amounts of loot.

It his horrid. Even more horrid is that they didn't think to downsize their house (to a 3 bed semi for example) in order that they used some of their own cash for the search. That is one of the most disgusting things. They took money off poorer people, yet continued to live in a house far bigger than their needs.

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LIBEL TRIAL DISCUSSION HERE   - Page 3 Empty Re: LIBEL TRIAL DISCUSSION HERE

Post by Guest 27.12.13 21:21

@  smokeandmirrors
That reminds me of their first accounts, which were still "quite" detailed. I would think that Income would be specified as "bank" , "cash", etc. But I cannot remember having seen that. Perhaps when Enid is around, she can enlighten me/us. She must know these accounts by heart ...  smilie
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