Did tannerman exist or not?

Clay Regazzoni wrote:

ChillyHeat wrote:1am is when they knocked on JWs door and said Gerrys daughter has gone missing....When JW told BoD that Gerrys daughter had gone missing, Im surprised she didnt say Gerry who. It would be a shock moment to recall someone you had only met days earlier.....IMO

Not if everybody was "really into each other".

I jokingly made a reference to Balu and Berry being a couple the other day (thanks NFWTD by the way - I did know that they had "regular" partners) but at first reading of the case they seem like an inseparable item, joined at the hip. And they had drinks with the Jensen sisters. I always drink with strange women while I'm on holiday with my wife and child too! Like I said before, a whole load of strangers on holiday, all seemingly on first name terms with each other.

And boy did that tennis court take some hammer. They must have got that photo of Maddie all alone during the four nanoseconds of daylight that there wasn't a lesson or match going on.

ChillyHeat wrote:


Almost every person at the place was a suit and boot, a Doctor, TV Producer, etc etc all moneymen......Where are the families that scrimped and scraped to save for a holiday there...
They all seemed to fly in together (not all but you understand). It seems the place was a stage for the week. A bit Sandy Hookish IMHO.

ScallyScouser wrote:Hi All

This has probably been discussed many a time, However i was shocked when i heard it.

Here is link [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

At 10:17 of video listern to what JT says "I would have said something to you because KM said you had been gone along time watching football" ?

Now i am 70/30 on Madeleine being abducted but even i had to re listen a few times to believe what i heard 

Thanks Richie









This is not letting me type in the right box!!

This video:
Same old words and confusion(which is good for them)
"I think,   I think....." (Tanner) 
and then Gerry says the opposite to Tanner about where he was standing.

Deliberately confusing things. There will be no way to figure it out, and they've made sure of it.
Thank you.

Madeleine will be very disappointed.

russiandoll wrote:

 Tennis Player
Slang for a bisexual person.

suep wrote:In my very, very humble opinion, being very,very new to all this, Tannerman never existed and Jane Tanner never walked up that road because if she had done Jes Wilkins would definitely have seen her, as would Gerry. I think its very possible that had Jes not happened along at that very moment Gerry would have made sure those shutters looked like they'd been 'jemmied' open (probably while wearing surgical gloves) and the agreed narrative that was first of all relayed to all the relatives and media back home would have matched the scene found by the police later. All Jane had to do was simply tell her story and there would have been no witnesses to know for sure that she never walked up that road at the salient time. Unfortunately Jes threw a spanner in the works by unexpectedly passing by just as Gerry was checking if anyone was about and there was no opportunity  for Gerry to let Jane know she would actually have to act out her story by walking past them (and who knows what extra complications that could have caused). Gerry had no choice but to acknowledge Jes, since he knew him, and have a brief chat with him, but by doing so he must then have been left with no time to fake the window break in scene because this was clearly not done.

This suggests to me that for some reason things had to happen at that time and it was not possible to somehow regroup and adjust the script. Gerry just had to carry on and hope that when he told the rest of the group at the table he'd bumped into Jes they'd pick up on the implications because Dianne Webster was at that table and I'm pretty sure she wasn't in on the conspiracy so they couldn't discuss it and adjust the script. (By the time the script reached the point where Kate raises the alarm they were sufficiently aware something had gone wrong to find an excuse for Dianne to stay behind at the table, thus giving them their first opportunity to collaborate).

I'm not sure what role Matthew Oldfield was supposed to play at 9.30pm but if this hypothesis I'm purporting here were true then he would have expected to see some damage to those shutters and an open window if he hadn't already picked up on the significance of what Gerry said about bumping into Jes, then once he got to 5A he would certainly have done so. Maybe he tried unsuccessfully to lift them from outside, who knows.

Kate, of course, may still have failed to realise that Gerry hadn't been able to set the scene so when she got to 5A at 10pm and saw that the window and shutter were still intact she opened the window herself leaving her prints on it because unlike Gerry she didn't have any gloves, and attempted to lift the shutter manually from the inside again leaving prints (which were not forensically clear enough for identification). Maybe she even went outside to have a go.What's certain is that later several people who should have been forensically aware enough to know better messed around with those shutters before the police arrived thus ensuring that any prints left by Kate/Matthew were totally smudged.

I'm not sure if this next bit is significant in terms of the why or when of Madeleine's death and I don't want to speculate about that since apart from the evidence that points strongly to the fact of her death (cadaverine) there is no hard evidence of the why and when that I've come across yet.  However, I wonder if anyone else has worried about the bit in Kate's book where she mentions that workmen were coming to the apartment one day to fix the washing machine and the shutters because Gerry had broken those shutters shortly after they arrived. She doesn't, as far as I remember, say exactly which window shutters Gerry broke and she dismisses it jokingly by saying its the 'Gerry touch' implying that an apparently skilled cardiologist used to doing delicate procedures is a heavy handed blunderer. It has niggled me a lot wondering what Gerry was doing interfering with shutters that they were never going to raise anyway. It also niggles me that she even bothered to mention it at all, unless it was the children's bedroom shutters he messed with and broke and Mark Warner has some documentary record of the work done to repair them.

suep wrote:because Dianne Webster was at that table and I'm pretty sure she wasn't in on the conspiracy

Clay Regazzoni wrote:

suep wrote:because Dianne Webster was at that table and I'm pretty sure she wasn't in on the conspiracy

What was Dianne Webster there for? She would have been an ideal babysitting candidate. Is there any more on her background anywhere?

suep wrote:
One thing, above everything else that has convinced me she wasn't in on the conspiracy was something she said in her statements to do with the last time she'd seen Madeleine. She was talking about the high tea that MW regularly provided for the children at the Tapas restaurant around 5pm,  and she said 'apparently' she saw her there on the 3rd May. Why 'apparently'? That sounds to me that she'd been unsure and someone assured her that she'd seen Madeleine there. As many people have pointed out Dianne is the only one of the Tapas group whose statements have been consistent throughout and that word 'apparently' is part of that consistency.

Diane Webster rogatory
4078   "Do you remember if you saw Madeleine that day?”
 Reply"I don’t think I did see her that day because the fact that we’d gone down to the beach in the afternoon and we hadn’t got the kid, the high tea, had we gone to the high tea err with the children then yes we would have seen her, but err I don’t recollect err seeing her because in the morning at the tennis she would have been in the kids club.”
4078   "And if the time that you were watching the men play tennis, well if it was that day or a different day, can you remember much about that time if that’s sort of clear in your mind?”
Reply  "What, in relation to…”
4078  "If, I’m just, it seemed to be clearer in your mind than some other things, you said you can remember standing there and the courts were lower and you can remember standing watching.”
Reply  "Well yeah I can remember err I can remember watching the men playing tennis but I can’t put a day on it, I can’t, I can’t remember err I don’t know if it was that, I don’t think it was that night I think it might be another night.”
4078  "Okay.”
Reply  "Because err when err when Madeleine went missing I, you know, I, my memory would have been fresher then and I don’t, I don’t remember seeing her on that day.”

Miraflores wrote:As a cardiologist, I don't think that Gerry would need to be particularly skilled with his hands: he doesn't need to perform delicate surgery.

Portia wrote:

Miraflores wrote:As a cardiologist, I don't think that Gerry would need to be particularly skilled with his hands: he doesn't need to perform delicate surgery.

Let's all pray there wasn't a tracheotomy went awry, shall we?

PeterMac wrote:

suep wrote:
One thing, above everything else that has convinced me she wasn't in on the conspiracy was something she said in her statements to do with the last time she'd seen Madeleine. She was talking about the high tea that MW regularly provided for the children at the Tapas restaurant around 5pm,  and she said 'apparently' she saw her there on the 3rd May. Why 'apparently'? That sounds to me that she'd been unsure and someone assured her that she'd seen Madeleine there. As many people have pointed out Dianne is the only one of the Tapas group whose statements have been consistent throughout and that word 'apparently' is part of that consistency.

This is one of my pet theories, so here is the bit from her Rogatory.

Diane Webster rogatory
4078   "Do you remember if you saw Madeleine that day?”
 Reply"I don’t think I did see her that day because the fact that we’d gone down to the beach in the afternoon and we hadn’t got the kid, the high tea, had we gone to the high tea err with the children then yes we would have seen her, but err I don’t recollect err seeing her because in the morning at the tennis she would have been in the kids club.”
4078   "And if the time that you were watching the men play tennis, well if it was that day or a different day, can you remember much about that time if that’s sort of clear in your mind?”
Reply  "What, in relation to…”
4078  "If, I’m just, it seemed to be clearer in your mind than some other things, you said you can remember standing there and the courts were lower and you can remember standing watching.”
Reply  "Well yeah I can remember err I can remember watching the men playing tennis but I can’t put a day on it, I can’t, I can’t remember err I don’t know if it was that, I don’t think it was that night I think it might be another night.”
4078  "Okay.”
Reply  "Because err when err when Madeleine went missing I, you know, I, my memory would have been fresher then and I don’t, I don’t remember seeing her on that day.”

And if Diane Webster is correct, then lots more falls into place. As we know know that Kate has told two different and mutually exclusive and contradictory stories about arriving back from the run.
In the book she says she returned to find them all at tea.  The creche sheets show her signing Madeleine out at 5:30
Everyone else is very carful to state that they were all down at the Paraiso - first and only time - and well away from having to give any form of statement or testimony.
Then Kate says that Madeleine was so shattered and exhausted she had to be carried back to the apartment, and safely out of the way.
Despite an afternoon doing nothing more than finger-painting - no high diving, or scuba or wind surfing, or half marathons on soft sand for the toddlers that afternoon !
And that is the day of the Last Photo, taken at lunch time, when there was no one else there.
Also the day that Payne visited for his 30 second or 30 minute session and saw all the children dressed in WHITE.  One supposes therefore that they changed into their coloured pyjamas later.

But let us not try to make it make sense.

Mirage wrote:

PeterMac wrote:

suep wrote:
One thing, above everything else that has convinced me she wasn't in on the conspiracy was something she said in her statements to do with the last time she'd seen Madeleine. She was talking about the high tea that MW regularly provided for the children at the Tapas restaurant around 5pm,  and she said 'apparently' she saw her there on the 3rd May. Why 'apparently'? That sounds to me that she'd been unsure and someone assured her that she'd seen Madeleine there. As many people have pointed out Dianne is the only one of the Tapas group whose statements have been consistent throughout and that word 'apparently' is part of that consistency.

This is one of my pet theories, so here is the bit from her Rogatory.

Diane Webster rogatory
4078   "Do you remember if you saw Madeleine that day?”
 Reply"I don’t think I did see her that day because the fact that we’d gone down to the beach in the afternoon and we hadn’t got the kid, the high tea, had we gone to the high tea err with the children then yes we would have seen her, but err I don’t recollect err seeing her because in the morning at the tennis she would have been in the kids club.”
4078   "And if the time that you were watching the men play tennis, well if it was that day or a different day, can you remember much about that time if that’s sort of clear in your mind?”
Reply  "What, in relation to…”
4078  "If, I’m just, it seemed to be clearer in your mind than some other things, you said you can remember standing there and the courts were lower and you can remember standing watching.”
Reply  "Well yeah I can remember err I can remember watching the men playing tennis but I can’t put a day on it, I can’t, I can’t remember err I don’t know if it was that, I don’t think it was that night I think it might be another night.”
4078  "Okay.”
Reply  "Because err when err when Madeleine went missing I, you know, I, my memory would have been fresher then and I don’t, I don’t remember seeing her on that day.”

And if Diane Webster is correct, then lots more falls into place. As we know know that Kate has told two different and mutually exclusive and contradictory stories about arriving back from the run.
In the book she says she returned to find them all at tea.  The creche sheets show her signing Madeleine out at 5:30
Everyone else is very carful to state that they were all down at the Paraiso - first and only time - and well away from having to give any form of statement or testimony.
Then Kate says that Madeleine was so shattered and exhausted she had to be carried back to the apartment, and safely out of the way.
Despite an afternoon doing nothing more than finger-painting - no high diving, or scuba or wind surfing, or half marathons on soft sand for the toddlers that afternoon !
And that is the day of the Last Photo, taken at lunch time, when there was no one else there.
Also the day that Payne visited for his 30 second or 30 minute session and saw all the children dressed in WHITE.  One supposes therefore that they changed into their coloured pyjamas later.

But let us not try to make it make sense.

Whilst Dianne Webster has been by far the most consistent of the Tapas group, let's not forget her volte face about whether she - along with DP and FP -  saw MO on their way to the tapas bar on 3/5.  She had originally testified they had definitely not encountered MO coming to chivvy them along. Then in her Rogatory with Leicester Police, she retracted that - volunteered it right at the start of the interview in fact. She even recounted the conversation  between them that MO had originally given in his statement. Interestingly this change of mind happened post Rothley. Hence, I'm not a bit surprised by her "apparently in respect of seeing MM at tea.

If she knew nothing at the time ( I suspect she probably didn't on balance) , she sure knew more by the time she came to give these statements. IMO.

Miraflores wrote:As a cardiologist, I don't think that Gerry would need to be particularly skilled with his hands: he doesn't need to perform delicate surgery.

Penfold wrote:

They do insert stents in the heart -not a procedure I'd particularly want a clumsy cardiologist to do!