CW was actually very clever I think

There is not the sense of urgency that would be involved if they were looking for a live child.
This is more about winding it all up

Redwood was asked three questions.
The first two totally pointless, and the third about Tractorman.
He very pointedly refused to answer that one.

Would you want to play him at Poker ?

noddy100 wrote:There is not the sense of urgency that would be involved if they were looking for a live child.
This is more about winding it all up

Exactly the sense of urgency shown by the parents the first night, where one went to sleep, and the other "kept vigil".
Or shown by the rest of the Tapas 7 for that matter.
Or by any of them the next day, or week, or month, or year

They were not looking for a live child.
They were attempting to draw attention away from a dead one.

PeterMac wrote:

noddy100 wrote:There is not the sense of urgency that would be involved if they were looking for a live child.
This is more about winding it all up

Exactly the sense of urgency shown by the parents the first night, where one went to sleep, and the other "kept vigil".
Or shown by the rest of the Tapas 7 for that matter.
Or by any of them the next day, or week, or month, or year

They were not looking for a live child.
They were attempting to draw attention away from a dead one.

PeterMac, do you think you could proceed with a case right now, today, if it was in your hands?

The longer it goes on like this the more it must indicate higher level interference but K and G who are they to have so much power?

noddy100 wrote:The longer it goes on like this the more it must indicate higher level interference but K and G who are they to have so much power?

I think the really fascinating thing is how that power is applied. I've heard it said that people are motivated essentially by two things - fear, and greed. I don't think the greed angle could hold such an apparently large conspiracy around such a terrible event together indefinitely. I don't want to keep harking back to Stephen Birch as I know he is considered a bit of a figure of fun in these parts but he claimed in his in interview that he had received explicit advice that he would be killed if he returned to the Algarve. Frankly I feel that is the only kind of motivation that could keep so many in check for so long.

Greycatofoxford wrote:I was very heartened by CW and believe it was structured well. The opening shot of K with her " Whoosh curtains "now known to be arrant nonsense was put there to reinforce a point. "Abduction" was replaced with missing. Redwood ignores Tractor man, thanks the public( we know that they were inundated with 1 name) deliberately makes clear they no longer NEED any more names. He is shown live @ Incident room highlighting that they are now relentlessly closing in.
K & G are  neither present nor referred to for an input and the other content of the CW show, shows just how a grieving mother really looks and feels, and in all these other cases, murder is the motive.
Lastly, I believe it is NO coincidence that SY have allowed to be reported the suggestion of PJ and SY further merging of ideas, this sends to the appropriate suspects, the thought that SY are now very much working on PJ theories.
It was not about what WAS said last night, what it was designed to do, and will do is send a clear message to K & G that they cannot fail to pick up on.
I notice, that as the days become weeks with the FUND closed, it seems unlikely that it is being " updated " and more likely that there is a connection to increased speculation as to the purpose of the fund.

Phoey! 
These are some very astute observations you make here. Good thinking!

currio wrote:

Shrike wrote:

Greycatofoxford wrote:I notice, that as the days become weeks with the FUND closed, it seems unlikely that it is being " updated " and more likely that there is a connection to increased speculation as to the purpose of the fund.

Regarding the fund and what looks like a possible closure of donations either forced (by SY?) or advised I was wondering if anybody has tried to donate not through the "Donate" button within the store but by a bank transfer for example. Does anybody know somebody who has tried and failed as this could be a further indication that the "fund" has been stopped?

I was thinking of doing a transfer of a quid to check this but am in 2 minds as even the thought of giving a penny to these people is abhorrent IMO.

An interesting thought though.........

@Shrike
 .....that's been bugging me too.....there's even an address to post it to, if your real anxious  ...I'm sure plenty old Granny's will have their Xmas donation in with the card... 

Surely if there is more to it, all of this would have been wiped...

Oh come on, if cash were stuffed into envelopes (or christmas cards) and simply marked Mccanns@Rothley, it will get there, and you can bet your bottom dollar the Mccanns wont reject it. Ditto bank transfer.
The pertinent question is: are these donations properly recorded in the books of the Fund, as is legal requirement of the Fund Constitution and By-laws I would imagine.   Who's in charge of accounting for cash donations received at Rothley would be a valid question if the auditors were thorough in their job.

Clay Regazzoni wrote:

PeterMac wrote:

noddy100 wrote:There is not the sense of urgency that would be involved if they were looking for a live child.
This is more about winding it all up

Exactly the sense of urgency shown by the parents the first night, where one went to sleep, and the other "kept vigil".
Or shown by the rest of the Tapas 7 for that matter.
Or by any of them the next day, or week, or month, or year

They were not looking for a live child.
They were attempting to draw attention away from a dead one.

PeterMac, do you think you could proceed with a case right now, today, if it was in your hands?

An educated guess say PM could and most certainly would (IMO) b/c there's plenty proven solid circumstance evidence, providing there's no pressure from political quarters or any other quarters to keep the lid on.

Plus DOGS never lie.

Clay Regazzoni wrote:

noddy100 wrote:The longer it goes on like this the more it must indicate higher level interference but K and G who are they to have so much power?

I think the really fascinating thing is how that power is applied. I've heard it said that people are motivated essentially by two things - fear, and greed. I don't think the greed angle could hold such an apparently large conspiracy around such a terrible event together indefinitely. I don't want to keep harking back to Stephen Birch as I know he is considered a bit of a figure of fun in these parts but he claimed in his in interview that he had received explicit advice that he would be killed if he returned to the Algarve. Frankly I feel that is the only kind of motivation that could keep so many in check for so long.

Dr Amarals dog was found dead on his doorstep, he wrote in his book

ultimaThule wrote:What it's coming down to is who can the McCanns trust?  Who's been got at by the police and promised goodness knows what for their co-operation?  And how will they know whether those closest to them have had overtures which haven't been reported back to Gerry the Great Controller, or whether any overtures that have been reported back have been done so in collaboration with, and at the behest of. the police ?
 
At least Rothley Towers is a luxurious bunker in which to wait it out until the inevitable early morning knock on the door.

Der Führerbunker

The Crimewatch update did nothing to support the abduction theory.  

We heard there were over 3,000 calls, but it was nothing statement.  No-one has been eliminated and no-one has been named a suspect, if the previous record breaking Crimewatch show achieved anything, we are still very much in the dark.  DCI Redwood's closing statement was probably the most significant, in that they are determined to find out what happened to Madeleine McCann and they ain't giving up anytime soon.

Okeydokey wrote:So either it was an episode of the Woodentops or it was an episode of Columbo - it can't be both!

That comment won't make much sense to anyone under 40 or not from the UK!

[As Columbo]

"Just 48 more questions..."

I am working on the basis that this investigation is alive or has sadly died. 

noddy100 wrote:There is not the sense of urgency that would be involved if they were looking for a live child.
This is more about winding it all up

Agree Noddy.  They had the pic of 2 year old Maddie in the background and there were no appeals.  It was curious that they used a clip of Kate and Gerry from the German leg of CW tour, rather than an up to the minute reaction from them to the 'fantastic' response the programme received.  

I feel there is a rift now between SY and the McCanns.  Their official website is still promoting the picture of Tannerman and the mighty Fund can no longer beg for donations.  

I did a post to this effect the other day, but due to my left wing leanings and failure to agree with more senior members of this forum, it didn't receive a single reply! Aren't I the popular one.

I agree with you and with everything else you post Cristobell :)

Curious_Bystander wrote:

Okeydokey wrote:So either it was an episode of the Woodentops or it was an episode of Columbo - it can't be both!

That comment won't make much sense to anyone under 40 or not from the UK!

[As Columbo]

"Just 48 more questions..."

(As Woodentops lady voice-over)

And last of all, the biggest spotty dogs you ever did see. 

SO do I cristobell haven't seen your post though :)

Cristobell wrote:

noddy100 wrote:There is not the sense of urgency that would be involved if they were looking for a live child.
This is more about winding it all up

Agree Noddy.  They had the pic of 2 year old Maddie in the background and there were no appeals.  It was curious that they used a clip of Kate and Gerry from the German leg of CW tour, rather than an up to the minute reaction from them to the 'fantastic' response the programme received.  

I feel there is a rift now between SY and the McCanns.  Their official website is still promoting the picture of Tannerman and the mighty Fund can no longer beg for donations.  

I did a post to this effect the other day, but due to my left wing leanings and failure to agree with more senior members of this forum, it didn't receive a single reply! Aren't I the popular one.

I really do want to believe this is the case Cristobel. Reading through the comments here, many seem to veer between two extremes.

The problem of belief v disbelief lies in the historic handling of this case. The McCanns have received unprecedented protection from the highest level. They have even involved themselves with a political drive to curb the historic freedoms of the press in this country. I mean, that is a staggering amount of influence by anyone's estimation.

We talk glibly about press freedom, but I think of people like William Tyndale who was executed for translating the Bible into English. Then I look at the behaviour of the CR outfit against that backdrop. GA says he believes many of his books were destroyed. Pat Brown had her book removed from Amazon without consultation. We are talking about very far-reaching powers here.

Then I look at the insouciance of this couple, who can walk into a police HQ and be afforded the luxury of perusing everyone's statements before making fresh ones. Can you imagine what you or I would be told if we walked into a police interview with this level of entitlement in an investigation as a shelved arguido?

I think people have become highly cynical unfortunately. And who can blame them? As we speak, there is an admission, after months of being told the Pt and UK investigation teams have been working closely, that there are two different investigations going on that are pulling against each other because they have different foci.

The bottom line is, you cannot tell from AR's poker face last night whether he is a scared marionette, wheeled out to take the flak like unheard of govt ministers when their masters are under pressure. Or, whether he is the hero we all want to ride in and bring justice for Madeleine McCann.

I don't have any evidence either way. All I have to go on is the directional impetus of the last six and a half years. And at the moment, I don't hear the screeching of gears and engaging of cogs that indicate the ocean-going liner HMS McCann is doing a 180* turn and heading for port.

If it is doing this manoeuvre in a clandestine night-time operation then no one will be more delighted than me.

I always read your comments with interest, Mirage.

Just a small remark this time: HMS McCann has to make a 180º turn to return to port ...  

So SY are now "determined to find out what happened to MM"

Not "determined to find her" (because there's no point looking)

And, yes, I do believe Det Redwood when he says that

Châtelaine wrote:I always read your comments with interest, Mirage.

Just a small remark this time: HMS McCann has to make a 180º turn to return to port ...  

Haha. But I didn't say "return" I said "heading" for port. I didn't say which port. Could have been Panama!  

But in any case, this is HMS McCann and it requires more spin!

AR/SY are caught between a rock and a hard place:

If it's just the Mecs they have to expose, than they are up against batteries of hired flunkeys plus the public opinion, so far;

If it's a conspiracy, we just don't know what they're up against;

Also AR has to ensure total secrecy from within his own organization, which he has done incredibly well, so far. 
Not a single copper has broken ranks and snitched to the media.

This last fact alone makes his performance a remarkable one. 

I maintain he is a man not to be envied, no matter what, and I hope he pulls the whole operation off successfully and with honor

Chuckling at the ARSY at the beginning of your post Portia!!

There definitely seemed to be a change between the two CW programs. Redwood seemed angry this time, compared to his more chatty approach in CW1.  He clearly didn't want to be on TV (never mind showing up at the studio), said nothing at all, and didn't blink once in his astonishingly brief "update". 

We can only speculate (and indeed we are!) about what this change might mean.  Clearly the 3500 calls were of zero use (how could they be...?!) - as they were either for random / invented strangers glimpsed 6 years ago, or for Gerry.  No wonder he didn't ask for any more! 


And perhaps the CW producers realised that their normally very effective and genuinely helpful program had been debased and turned into a PR exercise for the McCanns.  Hence the placement of the other (very serious) items and a return to their normal format.

Mirage wrote:

"As we speak, there is an admission, after months of being told the Pt and UK investigation teams have been working closely, that there are two different investigations going on that are pulling against each other because they have different foci."
............................................................................................................................

SY/MET=  'stranger abduction' by a (preferably) dead foreign paedo

PJ/GNR= 'live' doctors

DCI Redwood knows what the public 'perception' of him is and his late 'team' leader Hamish Campbell, with his 'mistaken' identification of Barry George as the 'only' killer of Jill Dando and subsequent 'conviction' (overturned) after years of false imprisonment.

WHY would DCI Redwood 'believe', unconditionally, whatever the McCanns told him?

THEY, and only they, are the only people that have ever said 'Madeleine WAS abducted'

(plus their 'friends' who imo were 'persuaded' to go along with that 'claim')

I'm pretty sure that in his long service as a police officer he has been 'lied' to many, many times.

But with his copper's nose has sniffed out the truth from the people that have lied to him.

And got proper convictions to boot.

As in all polls i have seen, over 80% of people do NOT believe a word the McCanns say about them not being 'involved' in one way or another, in a child's 'disappearance'.

And that must surely be reflected among DCI Redwood's 'team'

So logic dictates that 30.4 out of the 38 people on DCI Redwood's own 'team' also don't believe the McCanns 'claim'

I am sure that a 'junior' member(s) or even senior members of the 'team' have pointed out 'inconsistancies and descrepancies' in statements and the files.

Unfortunately i don't know what has said to any 'team' member that has/did/have 'identified' descrepancies in released 'files'.

(DP's 'knows a few things, pertinent and relevent to establish the material truth about the 'case') a MASSIVE RED FLAG!

Even to the most 'junior' member of Andy's 'elite' team.

But can SY/Met really believe that at no time, ever, will a person, working, or has worked on the 'case' will not whistleblow?

Out of sheer 'frustation' of being told, rentlessly, to only persue ONE line of investigation, that of 'stranger abduction'

When there ARE 'other POSSIBLE explanations' as to how the child may have 'disappeared'

IF DCI Redwood can rule out every possible alternative 'explanations' and only be left with 'stranger abduction' and publicly state his reasons that it WAS, and could only be, 'stranger abduction' then he'll go up in my estimation.

But he hasn't, to date, even come close to doing that.

All he has to do is call a press conference and tell us that 'the McCanns and their friends were NOT involved in Madeleines 'disappearance' because, and here is the evidence,.........", dosen't he?

KM made " Whoosh curtains".
was it any wind at all that night in pdl?

The problem is that PJ or SY need a major breakthrough. Or else we are no further forward than when the case was shelved.  SY trying to chase down phantoms on the balcony, or random people who were in the area can never get anywhere.  

The question remains: Is there is any such breakthrough?  This means either finding Maddie (alive or dead), or someone with knowledge of the crime coming forward.  So far, there is nothing from PJ or SY to suggest that either has happened.   And until one or other of these occurs, then I can't see this coming to a conclusion.  How can it?

If, when asked if the Mecs are involved, AR/SY would not reply or would reply they are, then all hell would break loose, and he probably would have to bring them in if only for their own protection. 

This would turn the investigation upside down, complicating it even further than it's already been complicated by who knows what political a/o outside interference

No, let AR hold his tongue, and proceed as he appears to be doing: with caution

NickE wrote:KM made " Whoosh curtains".
was it any wind at all that night in pdl?

It's always a bit windy in the Algarve - just look where it is! That's why I find the slamming door comments a bit odd too.