Re: CW was actually very clever I think

by **tigger** 30.11.13 8:19

Thanks Oakeso, imo that makes the Smiths more credible.

Cognitive thinking here, i.e. what people knew at the time can be overlooked. We have so much information that it's easy to think that everybody was fully informed at the time.

by Mikey 30.11.13 9:06

Greycatofoxford wrote:The response by AR regarding PJ was meant to show solidarity.
I have been the most critical in past months of SY and CW, however I have been part of many such TV productions here in the USA and I watched and re watched closely and still believe that the whole sub text was constructed to unsettle the Tapas guys and K & G etc and I think it WILL and SHALL

Agreed Grey. As I already commended, this has been an interesting thread, and the change 'appears' noticeable (insofar as I can assess from reading). Although I was never critical as such of SY, I simply couldn't accept that they could ignore the obvious and prime suspects.

I too hope that this is the beginning of a real show of solidarity between SY and PJ. My fingers are crossed that in these weeks and months to come, we shall see more revealed... sadly, I also feel we will need that patience because quite likely, not too much of 'real' consequence could logically be released until any potential charges are brought?

As I also mentioned, I find it hard to believe that all of the Tapas group will wish to face charges... one or more may crack? We can but hope.

by Cristobell 30.11.13 9:32

Greycatofoxford wrote:I am still of the mind set that CW was extraordinarily well thought out, by a sophisticated team.
My experience has shown that little is random at this stage and we are invited to guess at sub text( which in fairness is all they can allow)
AR is shown outside MURDER Investigation ROOM..hint 1…..he was NOT live it was recorded and the recording could have been done in the studio and CW could have announced that " this was an interview recorded earlier in the studio( they did not on purpose) they wanted to give the impression of the MIT hard at work at 21.30 hours, to send a message to possible UK suspects of 24 hour intense work.
K & G were not invited to be asked their thoughts or feelings as has happened in the past, they were not once referred to.
Abduction was NEVER mentioned once, Tractor man was dismissed almost with a sneer by AR, he thanked the Public for response, a message that the clarion calls of last months CW were noted and helpful, no request was made for MORE help in identifying and one else( deliberate)
The response by AR regarding PJ was meant to show solidarity.
I have been the most critical in past months of SY and CW, however I have been part of many such TV productions here in the USA and I watched and re watched closely and still believe that the whole sub text was constructed to unsettle the Tapas guys and K & G etc and I think it WILL and SHALL

Yes, I think you may well be right Greycat.

by mysterion 30.11.13 10:49

So phone calls have been investigated in PDL. Have SY investigated calls made in the UK by those at OC?

by NickE 30.11.13 16:04

mysterion wrote:So phone calls have been investigated in PDL. Have SY investigated calls made in the UK by those at OC?

I am also curious about it.

by Mikey 30.11.13 16:08

NickE wrote:
mysterion wrote:So phone calls have been investigated in PDL. Have SY investigated calls made in the UK by those at OC?
I am also curious about it.

I would also be very interested in the call records of the McCanns in the preceding days!

by Swannie 30.11.13 19:42

PeterMac wrote:PJ bottoms WHITE - not pink as JT described
Sleeves Short - non existent.

cf. Smithman
Sleeves - LONG

Cruel b_ _ _ _ _ _ s putting little Madeleine in short-sleeved pyjamas when the weather was so chilly at night!

by sallypelt 30.11.13 19:47

Mikey wrote:
NickE wrote:
mysterion wrote:So phone calls have been investigated in PDL. Have SY investigated calls made in the UK by those at OC?
I am also curious about it.
I would also be very interested in the call records of the McCanns in the preceding days!

I believe they know exactly what were in the texts and calls, but the PJ weren't allowed to use them as permission to use phone calls etc can't be made in retrospect.

by Mikey 30.11.13 19:54

sallypelt wrote:
I believe they know exactly what were in the texts and calls, but the PJ weren't allowed to use them as permission to use phone calls etc can't be made in retrospect.

Sorry Sally, could you explain what you mean? To my understanding, the police may gain access to any and all records required in the investigation of a crime, given judicial permission (warrant) perhaps. I could not understand why they would be restricted from this information. Therefore, my guess would be that SY have studied all of the Mc's records over said period, both of calls and sms message transcripts. Would seem rather ridiculous if they hadn't, and plotted any movements of all parties (or at least their mobiles) during same timeframe (where possible).

by oakeso 30.11.13 19:58

tigger wrote:Thanks Oakeso, imo that makes the Smiths more credible.

Cognitive thinking here, i.e. what people knew at the time can be overlooked. We have so much information that it's easy to think that everybody was fully informed at the time.

Yes and no really. I think it's been implied that Martin Smith knew RM and he had already been identified by JT sometime in the week after the "abduction". So while it may not have been in the papers people (McCanns and RM) would have been aware of it so in that sense the sighting must have been good news for RM.

Perhaps it's because Tannerman was so difficult to consider seriously, I can't understand why Smithman featured so prominently in CW or why he's so important and why has the subject caused such heated debate here? 6-7 years on what does that evidence mean, another 6 years of chasing down another lead only to find it's another dad taking his child home from the creche reluctant to talk in case the child awakened. Or assuming they ever come up with a suspect I can't see the sighting ever standing up in a court of law.

by sallypelt 30.11.13 20:02

Mikey wrote:
sallypelt wrote:
I believe they know exactly what were in the texts and calls, but the PJ weren't allowed to use them as permission to use phone calls etc can't be made in retrospect.
Sorry Sally, could you explain what you mean? To my understanding, the police may gain access to any and all records required in the investigation of a crime, given judicial permission (warrant) perhaps. I could not understand why they would be restricted from this information. Therefore, my guess would be that SY have studied all of the Mc's records over said period, both of calls and sms message transcripts. Would seem rather ridiculous if they hadn't, and plotted any movements of all parties (or at least their mobiles) during same timeframe (where possible).

Mikey, I hope this explains it. I have also supplied the link for you to read:

Re- (mobile) phone records;-
Gerry McCann 2007.05.04 : When asked, he says that he authorises a reading of the recorded data of his mobile phone no. 00***7869***88.

Kate McCann 2007.05.04 : Following a request from the inspector, she authorises a reading of the calls on her mobile phone.

The PJ didn't need to ask for the McCann's (or their friends) mobile phone records, they had the records.

Family and Minor Court of Portimao

Of the diligences required by the Public Ministry I do not authorise the delivery in digital format (CD or DVD) of the contents of any message sent or received by SMS or MMS concerning the telephone numbers shown on pages 2681 and 2682 as this would signify gaining knowledge of the content of the conversation or telephone communication that has already taken place and without there having been a previously authorised legal dispatch.

3063 to 3067 - PGR Letter to Evora Judges contesting their decision to not allow access to SMS and MMS messages

A Portuguese Judge rejected the appeal

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

by Mikey 30.11.13 20:18

sallypelt wrote:
Mikey, I hope this explains it. I have also supplied the link for you to read:

Re- (mobile) phone records;-
Gerry McCann 2007.05.04 : When asked, he says that he authorises a reading of the recorded data of his mobile phone no. 00***7869***88.

Kate McCann 2007.05.04 : Following a request from the inspector, she authorises a reading of the calls on her mobile phone.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Not read it all, but in skimming, it is all rather puzzling from both sides... Portuguese and UK. This is presumably all dated during the time of the supposed heavy governmental interference and pressure?

In regard to reading the 'recorded data' of their phones, does this limit it to the phone itself, or extend to provider data?

Still, from my perspective, I could not understand a refusal, not when linked to an active and potential murder/manslaughter investigation.

by NickE 30.11.13 22:10

Is there any confirmed link between Gerry and Robert Naylor?

by Veritas 30.11.13 23:51

Mikey wrote:
sallypelt wrote:
Mikey, I hope this explains it. I have also supplied the link for you to read:

Re- (mobile) phone records;-
Gerry McCann 2007.05.04 : When asked, he says that he authorises a reading of the recorded data of his mobile phone no. 00***7869***88.

Kate McCann 2007.05.04 : Following a request from the inspector, she authorises a reading of the calls on her mobile phone.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Not read it all, but in skimming, it is all rather puzzling from both sides... Portuguese and UK. This is presumably all dated during the time of the supposed heavy governmental interference and pressure?

In regard to reading the 'recorded data' of their phones, does this limit it to the phone itself, or extend to provider data?

Still, from my perspective, I could not understand a refusal, not when linked to an active and potential murder/manslaughter investigation.

Judge responding to the issue created wherein the reading of the data would effectively constitute an illegal wiretap which was basically given an after-the-fact authorisation without having ever presented the risk or the evidence to justify the setting up of the tap, perhaps.

I wonder if it is effectively a case of saying that even if text messages contained a confession, they would be inadmissable as evidence if the information pre-dates the warrant. I would imagine that if substantial evidence already gave the case legitimacy that a court might consider authorising analysis of such available records to fill in details or strengthen an already evidenced case.

by Guest 28.12.13 1:38

Greycatofoxford wrote:I was very heartened by CW and believe it was structured well. The opening shot of K with her " Whoosh curtains "now known to be arrant nonsense was put there to reinforce a point. "Abduction" was replaced with missing. Redwood ignores Tractor man, thanks the public( we know that they were inundated with 1 name) deliberately makes clear they no longer NEED any more names. He is shown live @ Incident room highlighting that they are now relentlessly closing in.
K & G are neither present nor referred to for an input and the other content of the CW show, shows just how a grieving mother really looks and feels, and in all these other cases, murder is the motive.
Lastly, I believe it is NO coincidence that SY have allowed to be reported the suggestion of PJ and SY further merging of ideas, this sends to the appropriate suspects, the thought that SY are now very much working on PJ theories.
It was not about what WAS said last night, what it was designed to do, and will do is send a clear message to K & G that they cannot fail to pick up on.
I notice, that as the days become weeks with the FUND closed, it seems unlikely that it is being " updated " and more likely that there is a connection to increased speculation as to the purpose of the fund.

With the benefit of hindsight, I think that CW was a genius move. We all went beserk at the "not suspects" nonsense, but it needed something outrageous like that to galvanise people into taking to social networks to voice their disgust. Look at the fall-out from CW now - just WOW!

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