CW was actually very clever I think

by Greycatofoxford 29.11.13 5:42

I was very heartened by CW and believe it was structured well. The opening shot of K with her " Whoosh curtains "now known to be arrant nonsense was put there to reinforce a point. "Abduction" was replaced with missing. Redwood ignores Tractor man, thanks the public( we know that they were inundated with 1 name) deliberately makes clear they no longer NEED any more names. He is shown live @ Incident room highlighting that they are now relentlessly closing in.
K & G are neither present nor referred to for an input and the other content of the CW show, shows just how a grieving mother really looks and feels, and in all these other cases, murder is the motive.
Lastly, I believe it is NO coincidence that SY have allowed to be reported the suggestion of PJ and SY further merging of ideas, this sends to the appropriate suspects, the thought that SY are now very much working on PJ theories.
It was not about what WAS said last night, what it was designed to do, and will do is send a clear message to K & G that they cannot fail to pick up on.
I notice, that as the days become weeks with the FUND closed, it seems unlikely that it is being " updated " and more likely that there is a connection to increased speculation as to the purpose of the fund.

by IKNOWWHATHAPPENED 29.11.13 5:50

They were clever in that they sandwiched an update on Madeleine McCANN directly in between 2 cases of Pedophilia.

by Greycatofoxford 29.11.13 5:51

Yes, very clever, it was all very structured.

by ultimaThule 29.11.13 6:26

What it's coming down to is who can the McCanns trust? Who's been got at by the police and promised goodness knows what for their co-operation? And how will they know whether those closest to them have had overtures which haven't been reported back to Gerry the Great Controller, or whether any overtures that have been reported back have been done so in collaboration with, and at the behest of. the police ?

At least Rothley Towers is a luxurious bunker in which to wait it out until the inevitable early morning knock on the door.

by watendlath 29.11.13 6:32

To my mind it was a big PR exercise.

Kirsty Young raved about the highest number of calls "ever"....which doesn't necessarily mean anything at all; one viewer once rang Crimewatch saying she had sold a pair of curtains exactly like those a murdered woman had been wrapped in, and even though they turned out not to be the same pair, that one call did lead the police to the village where the murderer lived and the case was eventually solved.
It was a fantastic co-incidence and it happened because of only one call in a case where the police had nearly given up.

In Madeleine's case an unprecedented number of viewers ring in about e-fits of a face the witnesses claimed they couldn't see properly because it was so dark...not much to get excited about.

Kate (looking quite happy) says it shows how "supportive" the general public are and "how keen they are for us to find Madeleine..."

All that gives the impression that the search is for a living person.
It also gives the impression that the public (an unprecedented number of them) are quite happy for the search to continue.

That search is costing UK taxpayers a lot of money so it's very important to convince them that they agree with it.

by Smokeandmirrors 29.11.13 6:32

So what was the point of the "update"?

Apart from Redwood saying they had months of work ahead of them. Tractorman mentioned but no point made by Redwood about it, unprecedented calls, but none of those seems to have led to NEW suspects or e-fits.

My feeling is that they are not now looking for anyone outside the Tapas gang, nothing was said that indicated looking for swarthy lurking strangers. I think the so-called months of work ahead is going to be working on the PJ thesis and seeing if they can get a good enough case for charges to be brought.

There was no specific point to the "update" so it must have been geared towards making people sweat.

by ultimaThule 29.11.13 6:44

watendlath wrote:To my mind it was a big PR exercise.

Kirsty Young raved about the highest number of calls "ever"....which doesn't necessarily mean anything at all; one viewer once rang Crimewatch saying she had sold a pair of curtains exactly like those a murdered woman had been wrapped in, and even though they turned out not to be the same pair, that one call did lead the police to the village where the murderer lived and the case was eventually solved.
It was a fantastic co-incidence and it happened because of only one call in a case where the police had nearly given up.

In Madeleine's case an unprecedented number of viewers ring in about e-fits of a face the witnesses claimed they couldn't see properly because it was so dark...not much to get excited about.

Kate (looking quite happy) says it shows how "supportive" the general public are and "how keen they are for us to find Madeleine..."

All that gives the impression that the search is for a living person.
It also gives the impression that the public (an unprecedented number of them) are quite happy for the search to continue.

That search is costing UK taxpayers a lot of money so it's very important to convince them that they agree with it.

I doubt she'd have looked quite so happy if she'd known when they were being filmed in Germany last month that the 'donate' button wouldn't be available on their limited company's website when the update was aired big grin

IMO Crimewatch is little more than a PR agency for police forces who are too preoccuped with fawning over their political masters to catch crooks in a timely manner.

by Liz Eagles 29.11.13 7:22

I don't know what to make of any of it. I read a positive post and totally agree and then I read a negative post and totally agree. So if CW was meant to confuse then it's done a good job on me.

by Smokeandmirrors 29.11.13 7:43

aquila wrote:I don't know what to make of any of it. I read a positive post and totally agree and then I read a negative post and totally agree. So if CW was meant to confuse then it's done a good job on me.

Must be the sign of a good investigation, if no-one can fathom what's going on. Tyhe thing that frustrates me the most is that Redwood said they have months of work ahead. It just goes on, and on, and on. After so many years you just wish someone would crack on and conclude it.

by ProfessorPPlum 29.11.13 8:03

aquila wrote:I don't know what to make of any of it. I read a positive post and totally agree and then I read a negative post and totally agree. So if CW was meant to confuse then it's done a good job on me.

Well put Aquila, I have to admit that's me. One other thing that struck me last night though was that AR was even MORE expressionless than I've ever seen him this far. I got the impression of a man fixing the biggest poker face ever, as if what was really going on was so critical that now, more than ever, he has to give nothing away.

by MarleneP 29.11.13 8:12

I see AR as a marionette in the hands of power.

by Smokeandmirrors 29.11.13 8:26

MarleneP wrote:I see AR as a marionette in the hands of power.

Without wishing to be rude, I do hope you are wrong big grin

I really do hope he is playing a clever game with the right result in his sights.

by noddy100 29.11.13 8:41

I hope you are all right!
He could make a name for himself by closing the biggest case ever
I hope he does

by Humanist 29.11.13 8:41

I too am confused but am linking in to Chatelaine's optimism.
I don't know why it is just what unfolds.
Too big to cover this up.

by Shrike 29.11.13 8:58

Greycatofoxford wrote:I notice, that as the days become weeks with the FUND closed, it seems unlikely that it is being " updated " and more likely that there is a connection to increased speculation as to the purpose of the fund.

Regarding the fund and what looks like a possible closure of donations either forced (by SY?) or advised I was wondering if anybody has tried to donate not through the "Donate" button within the store but by a bank transfer for example. Does anybody know somebody who has tried and failed as this could be a further indication that the "fund" has been stopped?

I was thinking of doing a transfer of a quid to check this but am in 2 minds as even the thought of giving a penny to these people is abhorrent IMO.

An interesting thought though.........

by Over The Hill 29.11.13 9:03

If you compare it to all other appeals and updates on Crimewatch, you will see it was very different

In particular, there was no reminder of the efits - or clarification of which of the two is the more accurate

That means they either know who they are after or Smithman is now irrelevant

But if Smithman was relevant a month ago, and is no longer relevant, he would have been dismissed on last night's programme and there would have been a further appeal for other sightings

There wasn't, so they know who they are looking for

by noddy100 29.11.13 9:10

Over The Hill wrote:If you compare it to all other appeals and updates on Crimewatch, you will see it was very different

In particular, there was no reminder of the efits - or clarification of which of the two is the more accurate

That means they either know who they are after or Smithman is now irrelevant

But if Smithman was relevant a month ago, and is no longer relevant, he would have been dismissed on last night's programme and there would have been a further appeal for other sightings

There wasn't, so they know who they are looking for

I agree they made virtually no reference to the previous show whereas normally updates do a mini recap

by Okeydokey 29.11.13 9:10

So either it was an episode of the Woodentops or it was an episode of Columbo - it can't be both!

That comment won't make much sense to anyone under 40 or not from the UK!

by DIBarlow 29.11.13 9:14

Smokeandmirrors wrote:Apart from Redwood saying they had months of work ahead of them.

I haven't seen the update, but did he really say this?

If so, it is tantamount to admitting that Maddie is no longer alive.

He's not expecting her to turn up in the next half-hour, day, week, or even month. Oh no, they've got months of work ahead of them......

It's as blatant a giveaway as the McCanns planning the first anniversary months in advance and delaying the publication of that awful (but very confessional) bewk.

by aiyoyo 29.11.13 9:14

Re the context of the title I beg to differ.
The CW was a farce and total waste of money.
The e-fits could easily have been circulated without need for the CW if that is the main (and seemingly only) objective.

As for the update? what update?
The only thing that made an impression (stood out as sore thumb) was AR filmed in his plush incident room.
Why did BBC go to him instead of him going into the BBC studio?
Is this indicative that it was BBC that desired an update and got zilch.
Which begs the question why did AR agree to participate when he's nothing to update?

by noddy100 29.11.13 9:17

DIBarlow wrote:
Smokeandmirrors wrote:Apart from Redwood saying they had months of work ahead of them.
I haven't seen the update, but did he really say this?

If so, it is tantamount to admitting that Maddie is no longer alive.

He's not expecting her to turn up in the next half-hour, day, week, or even month. Oh no, they've got months of work ahead of them......

It's as blatant a giveaway as the McCanns planning the first anniversary months in advance and delaying the publication of that awful (but very confessional) bewk.

When they talk about months ahead etc it is the same as when Gerry and his flip chart talked about the wider agenda imho of course
It is like they are investigating paedophiles and missing children/people in general and not even thinking about Madeleine.

by Guest 29.11.13 9:23

I am trying to remain optimistic.
I hope that AR after 6m quid and 2 1/2 years has finally come to the same conclusion as the first officers on the scene.
And thats why they now want to join forces with the PJ. All their investigations have gone nowhere.
Usually in an update after showing efits, they would say. Thank you, we now have several leads etc, etc. And repeat the call for more info.
None of that. It seems he doesn't need any more info. He was very serious and looked to me like a man who knows the end is in sight, and is not giving anything away.
(Either that or he was shocked by the number of people phoning the same name for the efit, and hadn't gauged the public feeling very well.)

Kates grimace and deep intake of breath, when saying "the general public have shown how keen they are..." my favourite bit.
She didn't like saying that at all.

by Greycatofoxford 29.11.13 9:27

I don't see it that way> It would be impossible for CW or SY to reveal their hand, give away anything vital at this stage, I never expected they would on CW. I did , however see some very clever semi overt messages, that will have a real effect on the McCanns and the Tapas gang.
Every thing that was said, not said, juxtaposed last night was extraordinarily well done, from they deliberate use of Redwood speaking from the MURDER Investigation unit, to the choice of Kate spouting a now discredited " Whoosh" story, to the word abduction now changed, to the true grieving mothers, etc.
It would be inconceivable that any police spokesperson would tell us exactly what the status is, it was never going to happen.
To those within the McCann circle, they will have watched that with a feeling of dread, uncertainty and they will be vulnerable like never before

by aiyoyo 29.11.13 9:31

DIBarlow wrote:
Smokeandmirrors wrote:Apart from Redwood saying they had months of work ahead of them.
I haven't seen the update, but did he really say this?

If so, it is tantamount to admitting that Maddie is no longer alive.

He's not expecting her to turn up in the next half-hour, day, week, or even month. Oh no, they've got months of work ahead of them......

It's as blatant a giveaway as the McCanns planning the first anniversary months in advance and delaying the publication of that awful (but very confessional) bewk.

He knows she's dead. Statistics prove that anyway if nothing else, he must know that.

Needing a few more months could only mean they haven't got the hard evidence and still working on it, but hard evidence on what though he did not say. In spite of the update (lack of) we're not an inch closer to the direction MET is working on.
The PJ silence speaks more volume than MET verbose.

by Guest 29.11.13 9:38

Greycatofoxford wrote:I don't see it that way> It would be impossible for CW or SY to reveal their hand, give away anything vital at this stage, I never expected they would on CW. I did , however see some very clever semi overt messages, that will have a real effect on the McCanns and the Tapas gang.
Every thing that was said, not said, juxtaposed last night was extraordinarily well done, from they deliberate use of Redwood speaking from the MURDER Investigation unit, to the choice of Kate spouting a now discredited " Whoosh" story, to the word abduction now changed, to the true grieving mothers, etc.
It would be inconceivable that any police spokesperson would tell us exactly what the status is, it was never going to happen.
To those within the McCann circle, they will have watched that with a feeling of dread, uncertainty and they will be vulnerable like never before

Whilst I largely agree with what you say, it does sort of leave one wondering exactly what they were trying to achieve with the Crimewatch appeal. Who they are trying to convince, and of what?

I don't like this prevailing idea that public opinion needs to be massaged before action can be taken against the McCanns though. That isn't the place of the police. I think they're spectacularly misguided if they are thinking like that anyway.

by Greycatofoxford 29.11.13 9:39

"Months away" would in fact be a reality, the McCanns employ the best legal brains around, the evidence must be water tight. The public always have a tendency ( I do it myself) to expect dawn raids, screeching police cars etc as if it were an hour long TV programme.
I believe the cautionary use of "months, patience, etc " is to prepare the public for the reality of Police work .
I have myself been most critical of SY in recent months, however, I now am getting a far more positive feeling of stoic bloody minded resolve and that there is only one real line of investigation now.

by Guest 29.11.13 9:41

aiyoyo wrote:
DIBarlow wrote:
Smokeandmirrors wrote:Apart from Redwood saying they had months of work ahead of them.
I haven't seen the update, but did he really say this?

If so, it is tantamount to admitting that Maddie is no longer alive.

He's not expecting her to turn up in the next half-hour, day, week, or even month. Oh no, they've got months of work ahead of them......

It's as blatant a giveaway as the McCanns planning the first anniversary months in advance and delaying the publication of that awful (but very confessional) bewk.
He knows she's dead. Statistics prove that anyway if nothing else, he must know that.

Needing a few more months could only mean they haven't got the hard evidence and still working on it, but hard evidence on what though he did not say. In spite of the update (lack of) we're not an inch closer to the direction MET is working on.
The PJ silence speaks more volume than MET verbose.

If there's no imperative to find a living child, they could be getting everything in place for an operation that would need to be enormous in scope and probably with one chance of success. If it was me I'd like to know in advance every question I was going to ask every single person.

Assuming the worst, how many individuals could be implicated in this? I can think of about thirty I'd like to speak to just off the top of my head.

by currio 29.11.13 9:43

Shrike wrote:
Greycatofoxford wrote:I notice, that as the days become weeks with the FUND closed, it seems unlikely that it is being " updated " and more likely that there is a connection to increased speculation as to the purpose of the fund.
Regarding the fund and what looks like a possible closure of donations either forced (by SY?) or advised I was wondering if anybody has tried to donate not through the "Donate" button within the store but by a bank transfer for example. Does anybody know somebody who has tried and failed as this could be a further indication that the "fund" has been stopped?

I was thinking of doing a transfer of a quid to check this but am in 2 minds as even the thought of giving a penny to these people is abhorrent IMO.

An interesting thought though.........

@Shrike
$i don\'t know$ .....that's been bugging me too.....there's even an address to post it to, if your real anxious big grin

...I'm sure plenty old Granny's will have their Xmas donation in with the card...

Surely if there is more to it, all of this would have been wiped...

by russiandoll 29.11.13 9:56

Greycatofoxford wrote:I don't see it that way> It would be impossible for CW or SY to reveal their hand, give away anything vital at this stage, I never expected they would on CW. I did , however see some very clever semi overt messages, that will have a real effect on the McCanns and the Tapas gang.
Every thing that was said, not said, juxtaposed last night was extraordinarily well done, from they deliberate use of Redwood speaking from the MURDER Investigation unit, to the choice of Kate spouting a now discredited " Whoosh" story, to the word abduction now changed, to the true grieving mothers, etc.
It would be inconceivable that any police spokesperson would tell us exactly what the status is, it was never going to happen.
To those within the McCann circle, they will have watched that with a feeling of dread, uncertainty and they will be vulnerable like never before

The only time I heard Andy R say the "a" word on the previous CW programme was when he said that on one reading of the evidence the case had the hallmarks of a pre planned abduction, recently the only word I have read or heard used by SY and the media is disappearance.

by Over The Hill 29.11.13 10:02

SY are obviously assuming she's dead because the previous Crimewatch programme was all about finding an unspecified man rather than finding Maddie. So was the update. There was no attempt to say what she might look like now, reminders of distinguishing features, where she might be etc. They know it's pointless.