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MURAT revisited

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Re: MURAT revisited

Post by NickE on 22.03.18 22:06

On Sunday April 29 there was a phone call from the UK to a pre paid phone in Pdl.
This phone record appears in the files under 
" - Letter from Vodafone re: calls received/made on lines owned by Robert Murat and Jennifer Murat"

The incoming phone call from the UK came at 22:47 on Sunday the 29th and this UK phone number belonged, according to the source, to Cat Baker's mother, Carol*ne Baker and there was several phone calls during that week


The Police showed interest in this phone as we can see here.

Carol*ne Baker arrived to Pdl later and stayed at the OC.


This is odd.
Murat was in the UK on Sunday the 29th but,as I already said, this phone is listed under Murat's phone records and as it was a pre paid phone we don't know who it belonged to.

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Re: MURAT revisited

Post by Tony Bennett on 22.03.18 23:46

@NickE wrote:On Sunday April 29 there was a phone call from the UK to a pre paid phone in Pdl.
This phone record appears in the files under 
" - Letter from Vodafone re: calls received/made on lines owned by Robert Murat and Jennifer Murat"

The incoming phone call from the UK came at 22:47 on Sunday the 29th and this UK phone number belonged, according to the source, to Cat Baker's mother, Carol*ne Baker and there was several phone calls during that week


The Police showed interest in this phone as we can see here.

Carol*ne Baker arrived to Pdl later and stayed at the OC.


This is odd.
Murat was in the UK on Sunday the 29th but, as I already said, this phone is listed under Murat's phone records and as it was a pre paid phone we don't know who it belonged to.

I have never, ever before seen a reference to Caroline Baker, mother of Catriona Baker, making a telephone call during the holiday.

Given what we have said about the Last Photo, the Make-Up Photo and the events of the Sunday evening, are you able @NickE to supply full details of any or all calls made to or from Caroline or Catriona Baker that week please? (I can't access the screen shots you have put up).

Are you able to extract the details for us and actually type them on to the thread?

Thanks

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Re: MURAT revisited

Post by HiDeHo on 23.03.18 1:26

*04-Processos Volume IV, pgs. 833 to 1118

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/ROBERT-MURAT.htm#p4p1045






Page 1051
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Re: MURAT revisited

Post by polyenne on 23.03.18 9:51

Nick E #351
You state : "this UK phone number belonged, according to the source, to Cat Baker's mother, Carol*ne Baker and there was several phone calls during that week."

Where does this come from ?

The traffic between a "Murat" number ending 518 and a UK mobile number ending 605, is intriguing :

25/4   1 call
29/4   1 call
4/5     5 calls
5/5     1 call
6/5     4 calls
7/5     1 call
9/5     3 calls
10/5   2 calls
11/5   14 calls
12/5   4 calls

In addition, 19 voicemail messages (probably relates to some of the calls above) between 5/5 and 13/5.

Certainly after the 29/4 call, the next and much larger batch coincide with someone (Caroline Baker ?) being in PdL. 

Lastly, notwithstanding Murat's quick exit FROM Exeter, the Flybe info also shows that he booked the flight out to Exeter on 19 March and flew the very next day.........seemingly not a planned visit then ?

ETA   Where was Murat on 8 May when no calls were made between those numbers ?

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Re: MURAT revisited

Post by sallypelt on 23.03.18 10:32

As intriguing as these phone calls appear to be, we must be very careful that we do not over-egg the pudding. I don't see anything suspicious about a mum phoning her daughter on a regular basis. When my daughter goes on DAY trip, for example, we phone each other at least 4 times  and my daughter isn't a teenager. In fact, she has two teenage "children".  

However, if there is a connection between Catriona's mum AND Robert Murat, regarding phone calls made during this period then that DOES raise questions.

Interesting times!

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Re: MURAT revisited

Post by Phoebe on 23.03.18 11:52

I'd like some clarity about these claims - namely, the source for the claim that there was phone traffic between Cat Baker's mother, Caroline, and any of the Murats and the clarification of this claim. Interesting to see that a Caroline Baker (Cat's mother presumably) arrived at the Ocean Club On May 6th. If Cat. was so distraught about the disappearance of one of the children in her charge that her Mummy had to come out to comfort her it's strange that she immediately continued her work as a Mark Warner nanny, albeit in another resort in Greece. It smacks of some kind of terrified panic on Cat's part if true!

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Re: MURAT revisited

Post by NickE on 25.03.18 13:40

@Phoebe wrote:I'd like some clarity about these claims - namely, the source for the claim that there was phone traffic between Cat Baker's mother, Caroline, and any of the Murats and the clarification of this claim. Interesting to see that a Caroline Baker (Cat's mother presumably) arrived at the Ocean Club On May 6th. If Cat. was so distraught about the disappearance of one of the children in her charge that her Mummy had to come out to comfort her it's strange that she immediately continued her work as a Mark Warner nanny, albeit in another resort in Greece. It smacks of some kind of terrified panic on Cat's part if true!
It is Cat's mothers phone number for sure

And the traffic between this pre paid phone in pdl is there, it's in the files under Murat's phone traffic.
The question is if it's wrong in the files and this number wasn't connected to Murat?
I also know that Lynne Fretter who lived with Cat Baker at the time has been asked about this pre paid phone number but she couldn't remember it.

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Re: MURAT revisited

Post by polyenne on 25.03.18 13:55

I So, let’s assume this is Cat Baker’s Mother, with the other phone belonging to Murat.....

First logged call is on 25/4 before the T9 had arrived in PdL. The second at 22.49 on Sunday 29/4. Then a flurry on the day after the “abduction” and one a day (except 8/5) until Caroline Baker arrives in PdL at which point they continue culminating in a total of 14 on the 11/5, the day she leave the OC.
I’ll need to review the logs to see which “calls” are verbal, voicemail or SMS.

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Re: MURAT revisited

Post by Doug D on 25.03.18 14:17

NickE (#351):
 
‘Carol*ne Baker arrived to Pdl later and stayed at the OC.’
 
6th May to 11th May. Caroline Baker shows booked in to room G608.
 
Thanks Nick.
 
I hadn’t picked up on that before.
 
Would a mother really rush out with the need to comfort and support (?) a daughter who had absolutely nothing to do with a child’s disappearance, even if she had been in her playgroup?
 
It is also to be noted that according to the phone records, Cat went incommunicado on this phone (phone/text/voicemail silence) between 22.47 on Sunday 29th until 12.35 on 3rd.
 
A teenage girl, away from home, not making contact with anybody? How likely is that?
 
As ever, it makes no sense and Cat then vanishes off to Greece.
 
I suspect that the PJ got their wires crossed as regards phone ownership and it was Cat’s phone all the time otherwise, there is something very strange here.

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Re: MURAT revisited

Post by polyenne on 25.03.18 14:21

Isn’t it Cat’s mother’s phone or are you assuming it was in Caroline’s name only ?

In any case, the traffic is between the Baker number and a number attributed, by the PJ, to Murat

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Re: MURAT revisited

Post by Phoebe on 25.03.18 15:01

@ DougD  "It is also to be noted that according to the phone records, Cat went incommunicado on this phone (phone/text/voicemail silence) between 22.47 on Sunday 29th until 12.35 on 3rd..2

I'm confused here, I thought the phone allegedly belonged to Cat's mother. Are you suggesting that Cat was using her mother's phone  in Portugal to call the Murats. Who could she have been speaking to at the Murat's home on April 25th and 29th. Robert was still in England until May 1st. Surely the police can check which country the call originated from. If they had spotted phone calls to Murat's (the prime suspect) residence from anyone connected to Madeleine (such a the nanny who minded her, or the nanny's mother) surely this would have been spotted, investigated and remarked upon.

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Re: MURAT revisited

Post by polyenne on 25.03.18 15:19

The logs show the “Baker” mobile number as being +44, so a UK number.

Are we sure “Murat’s” number is a landline and not a mobile ? If a mobile, the 25/4 and 29/4 calls could have occurred.

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Re: MURAT revisited

Post by Doug D on 25.03.18 15:48

The files show:
 
1045 to 1062 Letter from Vodaphone re calls received/made on lines owned by Robert Murat and Jennifer Murat
 
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/ROBERT-MURAT.htm
 
with no. ………7518 making calls to ………..3605 (Caroline Baker’s phone )
 
   
I think the PJ have got their wires crossed as far as the phone ownership goes, as ……7518 must surely be Cat’s unless there is a further line of intrigue we have not come across before.

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Re: MURAT revisited

Post by NickE on 25.03.18 17:37

This is interesting.

We can also see in the files that this Portugal phone number was connected to Murat, 919188441
As we can see in this phone record below this phone number had communication on May 7 and May 8 with +447921225099


Connection between Murat and the Portugal phone number below.

This phone number 447921225099 belongs to Cat Baker's room mate Lynne Fretter.


Lynne Fretter was interviewed by the Police on May 7 and the translator was.....Robert Murat.
What the heck was going on down there?

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Re: MURAT revisited

Post by polyenne on 25.03.18 18:35

Great stuff, Nick. Like my Sunday roast gravy, the plot thickens !!

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Re: MURAT revisited

Post by Doug D on 25.03.18 18:47

Earliest recorded phone contacts between Fretter & Murat show as 7th May, which was the date of her interview/statement, using Murat as translator, so nothing particularly untoward there imo.

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Re: MURAT revisited

Post by polyenne on 25.03.18 19:23

Is it normal for a translator to call a witness ?

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Re: MURAT revisited

Post by NickE on 25.03.18 19:38

@polyenne wrote:Is it normal for a translator to call a witness ?
Two phone calls at 11pm.
Must have been something urgent since he could not wait to the next day.
We should also keep in mind that Mr Amaral said he had the feeling that Murat tried to infiltrate the investigation.

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Re: MURAT revisited

Post by Phoebe on 25.03.18 20:51

I don't see the time given for the calls from Murat to Lynn Fretter. Where did 11 p.m. come from please. I can understand Murat  calling a non-Portuguese speaking witness before her interview at which he was to translate, perhaps to tell her the time or relay another message from the P.J. but not his ringing her afterward. Unless perhaps, he had volunteered to contact the nannies via Lynne to arrange times for the other nannies' interviews he was due to translate. Odd that the P.J. did not pick up on anything untoward in his contacting Fretter or wonder at the contact with the mother of Madeleine's nanny! It should have stood out a mile when they examined the Murat phone records. He was, after all, the prime suspect.

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Re: MURAT revisited

Post by NickE on 25.03.18 21:05

@Phoebe wrote:I don't see the time given for the calls from Murat to Lynn Fretter. Where did 11 p.m. come from please. I can understand Murat  calling a non-Portuguese speaking witness before her interview at which he was to translate, perhaps to tell her the time or relay another message from the P.J. but not his ringing her afterward. Unless perhaps, he had volunteered to contact the nannies via Lynne to arrange times for the other nannies' interviews he was due to translate. Odd that the P.J. did not pick up on anything untoward in his contacting Fretter or wonder at the contact with the mother of Madeleine's nanny! It should have stood out a mile when they examined the Murat phone records. He was, after all, the prime suspect.

23:35.04
23:54.01

May 8: 0:23.18
Three very late phone calls.

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Re: MURAT revisited

Post by NickE on 25.03.18 22:27

@Doug D wrote:NickE (#351):
 
‘Carol*ne Baker arrived to Pdl later and stayed at the OC.’
 
6th May to 11th May. Caroline Baker shows booked in to room G608.
 
Thanks Nick.
 
I hadn’t picked up on that before.
 
Would a mother really rush out with the need to comfort and support (?) a daughter who had absolutely nothing to do with a child’s disappearance, even if she had been in her playgroup?
 
It is also to be noted that according to the phone records, Cat went incommunicado on this phone (phone/text/voicemail silence) between 22.47 on Sunday 29th until 12.35 on 3rd.
 
A teenage girl, away from home, not making contact with anybody? How likely is that?
 
As ever, it makes no sense and Cat then vanishes off to Greece.
 
I suspect that the PJ got their wires crossed as regards phone ownership and it was Cat’s phone all the time otherwise, there is something very strange here.
I don't think it was Cat's phone number because she stated in her Rogatory that her first time in Portugal was the 21st of March 2006 and this phone number that communicate with her mother on April 29th was activated 9-12-2005.

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Re: MURAT revisited

Post by Verdi on 26.03.18 1:46

@NickE wrote:I don't think it was Cat's phone number because she stated in her Rogatory that her first time in Portugal was the 21st of March 2006 and this phone number that communicate with her mother on April 29th was activated 9-12-2005.

Catriona Baker's witness statement - 6th May 2007 [snipped]

In answer to our questions, she responds that she has been in Portugal since March 21st of this year [2007] and that this is her first visit to the country. Next, she says that she came to Portugal to work as a play leader, having obtained a contract of employment with the "Mark Warner" company. She states that her contract started on March 21st and ends on November 7th 2007, the date on which she will return to her own country.

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Re: MURAT revisited

Post by Verdi on 26.03.18 2:02

@NickE wrote:This phone number 447921225099 belongs to Cat Baker's room mate Lynne Fretter.

Where do you get all this information from?

I asked the same of former forum member April24th [Ben Salmon] who apparently produced reams of telephone call detail. I never got a direct reply - only something to the effect of using brute force and/or simple persuasion. What the heck is that supposed to mean?

Apart from anything else, +44 is the international dialing code for the UK, Lynne Fretter was in Portugal wasn't she? What's it got to do with a kids entertainment website anyway?

Catriona Baker's, mother in the name of Carol*ne Baker, suddenly materializes at Praia da Luz after nearly eleven years?

Someone's lost the plot methinks.

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Re: MURAT revisited

Post by NickE on 26.03.18 6:32

@Verdi wrote:
@NickE wrote:This phone number 447921225099 belongs to Cat Baker's room mate Lynne Fretter.

Where do you get all this information from?  

I asked the same of former forum member April24th [Ben Salmon] who apparently produced reams of telephone call detail.  I never got a direct reply - only something to the effect of using brute force and/or simple persuasion.  What the heck is that supposed to mean?

Apart from anything else, +44 is the international dialing code for the UK, Lynne Fretter was in Portugal wasn't she?  What's it got to do with a kids entertainment website anyway?

Catriona Baker's, mother in the name of Carol*ne Baker, suddenly materializes at Praia da Luz after nearly eleven years?

Someone's lost the plot methinks.
She is the owner of "Wriggles and Giggles"


And the phone number to her company is the phone number above.
If I'am abroad, let's say in UK and I need to call someone in the UK with a Swedish phone operator I have to dial +46 and the it's the same procedure if you are in Portugal and need to call a UK phone number inside Portugal, you have to dial +44.
There is no need to hack when Facebook is a couple of clicks away.

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Re: MURAT revisited

Post by skyrocket on 26.03.18 8:17

The Daily Mail reported the following in an article about Cat Baker, October 2007:

'Writing to one concerned friend nine days after Madeleine disappeared, she admitted: 'I was her nanny, so it's been tough for me, you wouldn't recognise me.
'It's hit me so hard I've hardly slept or eaten. My mum came to see me, but transferring me to "San Ag" has put me back at stage one as I am so stressed again'.



Seems likely that Cat's mother would have been accommodated in the Ocean Club if she had visited.
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