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'The Last Photo': The key questions

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Re: 'The Last Photo': The key questions

Post by Veritas on Tue 12 Nov 2013 - 9:42

@canada12 wrote:
@Veritas wrote:The image is genuine, only its timing in dispute. There is no credible motive, nor evidence of it being fabricated. Either a 'we have no photos' or an edited exif datestamp would be equally useful. 
If the image is genuine, Veritas, but its timing is in dispute, when do you suppose the photo was taken? If it was taken the previous year, we'd need to see proof that the McCanns had visited PDL the previous year. Do we have any proof of that?

Or are you saying that the photo was taken on a day other than May 3, but during the same visit? If that's the case, then why would they lie about it being taken on May 3? Why not just be honest, and say it was taken on May 2, or May 1?
No, I haven't got a theory or a timeline that I need to make fit. The rest is open to interpretation. I know that the photo is real. I know that it wasn't taken a year earlier. The evidence makes it plausible that it was taken earlier in the trip. The EXIF doesn't tell me anything either way.

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Re: 'The Last Photo': The key questions

Post by canada12 on Tue 12 Nov 2013 - 9:44

candyfloss wrote:I would suggest those arguing here leave it now, you have made your points, you are obviously not going to agree.  
I'm happy to agree to disagree.
Thank you.

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Re: 'The Last Photo': The key questions

Post by Veritas on Tue 12 Nov 2013 - 9:46

@canada12 wrote:
@Veritas wrote:Canada,  the photoshopped rotated glasses were not, bloody not, the perfect reflection. They were what the cloud-gazers wanted to see... 'ah yes... That proves it'  But in real world terms those glasses would never have reflected what the detractors need it to. Why? Because it is a three dee object subject to three dee dynamics. If hung vertically those glasses would never reflect pool, more pool and pool edge. They'd reflect sky or a fenceline, and knees.
How can you say that with any degree of knowledge? Were you there?
Physics, my dear Canada.  Very elementary physics.

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Re: 'The Last Photo': The key questions

Post by tigger on Tue 12 Nov 2013 - 10:38

@Veritas wrote:Tigger, there isn't a missing arm. It, like the rest of the objects in the image, is a three dee object in a three dee world, subject to the perspective of the point of observation, captured in a brief fluid moment by a lens which produces a two dee rendering of a three dee scene and which introduces limiting dynamics based on its own depth of focus and curvature. You do know that all those tourist snaps which show happy holidaymakers holding the Eiffel Tower on the palm of their hand are just optical illusions, right? They're not photoshopped. 

Your rhetoric of hysterical deniers is oddly telling. Your camp are very noted for their leaps of logic, dogged adherence to vivid imagination, utter lack of credibility, and flagrant ignorance of evidence over a pre-formed narrative. I'll repeat the same thing I've been saying - sanely and soberly - throughout... This isn't a denial of guilt. It isn't some red herring to cast you off the trail. This is Occam's Razor. Make the least assumptions unless the evidence supports it... If the photograph was faked it would fulfil no purpose that could not be fulfilled more easily by leaving the world with no photo atall. They didn't need it, it doesn't define or hinge a single aspect of the case, it increases the risk tenfold for no discernible benefit.
Sorry, you're talking rubbish. I have a science degree and also did a year of photography in art college. A 'brief fluid moment'by a lens (I will understand if you use 2D and 3D)  does not wipe out a discrete part of the picture. Not in digital nor in analogue photography. As CF has requested us to stop discussing this, you are simply creating discord by being rude and it you don't like ''my camp' you are free to either leave or ignore it. You are not discussing this, not answering post, just using the topic as a soap box as if you're holding forth to mentally challenged members. Occam's Razor has nothing do with it and yes, they did need the photograph, still do as a matter of fact, because it comes up every time they're asked what their last memory of Maddie is. The Photograph!   It's produced like a rabbit out of a hat and that Professor Veritas, is exactly what it is, a conjuring trick.

Their LAST memory of Maddie would surely be the last time they saw her, played with her, talked with her? Gerry standing there with his 'proud father moment?'. Kate with Maddie telling her she had the best day ever?

You have not answered any questions here. By the way, I am not hysterical and your sentence above which I highlighted says more about you than any other member here. spit coffee  I choose to find the amusment value in things I can't change, such as your mind. Long way from hysterical.

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Re: 'The Last Photo': The key questions

Post by PeterMac on Tue 12 Nov 2013 - 11:00

@tigger wrote:SNNIP.. .yes, they did need the photograph, still do as a matter of fact, because it comes up every time they're asked what their last memory of Maddie is. The Photograph!   It's produced like a rabbit out of a hat and that Professor Veritas, is exactly what it is, a conjuring trick.
Their LAST memory of Maddie would surely be the last time they saw her, played with her, talked with her? Gerry standing there with his 'proud father moment?'. Kate with Maddie telling her she had the best day ever?
It is one of the more extraordinary features. Remembering a photograph.
I could understand it if they had LOST a photograph, but this photograph exists, (however it was produced is irelevant at the moment.)
So why would you need to remember it ?
Why not just look at it.

Their choice of words and use of language is quite bizarre at times. As if they were struggling to find the mots justes, or were trying not to slip up !

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Re: 'The Last Photo': The key questions

Post by aquila on Tue 12 Nov 2013 - 11:04

Snipped from tigger's post

"...and yes, they did need the photograph, still do as a matter of fact, because it comes up every time they're asked what their last memory of Maddie is. The Photograph!   It's produced like a rabbit out of a hat and that Professor Veritas, is exactly what it is, a conjuring trick.

Their LAST memory of Maddie would surely be the last time they saw her, played with her, talked with her? Gerry standing there with his 'proud father moment?'. Kate with Maddie telling her she had the best day ever?"


To my mind that really is the crux of the matter and why the photoshopping subject is so sensitive to some that it has to be denied categorically.
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Re: 'The Last Photo': The key questions

Post by dan55 on Tue 12 Nov 2013 - 11:12

I concluded some six years ago that the mccann's were guilty 

based on their testimony. I came across this photo 6 years 

later it gave me a sick feeling as all photo's that don't 

look right do I don't mean bad composition I mean contrary to 

the real world. I am glad veritas can read minds as well! 

There are no foregone conclusions as he says but a 

preponderance of the evidence before me. "You`ve hamstrung 

your own investigation into the image with prejudice" I think 

you are the one who is prejudiced in favour of the Mccanns 

you are beginning to sound more and more like a hired gun! 

You cannot prove a digital photo that is photoshopped is 

genuine, even I am taken in by some of them but you can say it 

is false if there are glaring error's in it that despite your high 

sounding arguments using words like "dynamicto" that don't 

exist nothing you have said is any less than dogma. This is a 

ludicrous statement "There is no evidence to support the 

claim that it is fake" you just don't want to see it none so 

blind and all that, followed by this "Since there is no tonal 

discontinuity" I have never seen a more jumbled mess of 

discordant tones. MM is lighter the tone of her skin and 

clothes is that of a slightly overexposed picture and are not 

as rich and deep as AM's look at the hat for instance one is 

rich and colourful the other is bleached out with little 

detail. MM's face is whiter and a different tone to her 

sister and GM even though she is shaded by her hat and he is 

in direct sunlight. Her skin tone is nothing like her sisters 

or Gerrys yet it is supposed to be the same lighting.  The 

tree behind and grass has richer tones than Gerry's shorts 

MM's dress and Amelies top. MM's face is sharper than the 

other two's her exposure is different. If the shadows were 

falling as you said upper to GM's right then why is the 

shadow from the hat of Amelie darker than other shadows and 

would indicate the sun being upper and to her left? The 

shadow from that and the one from GM's chin almost converge?

The shadows on the bench are light and dark grey but from the 

hat black as is the background shadows given there is only 

one light source the background should be as bright as the 

foreground it has a different tone and exposure. Are you 

trying to tell me round objects don't give oval or round 

shadows ????? ridiculous !!!!! Just use your eyes look how 

rich and green and deep the tone of the grass is behind MM's 

hat and look at GM'S shorts not anywhere near the same tone 

or richness yet both in the same sunlight!Look at the tree 

compared to Gerry's arm richer different deeper colours! 

fake, fake, fake.Yet the shadows under Amelie's chin are not 

as dark as the ones under GM's and MM's are even lighter how 

can that be. I deal in cold hard facts not speculation like 

"or light reflecting off any number of other objects" show me 

these objects or spaceships in this picture there aren't any 

it's a figment of your imagination. 
As for why someone like GM would do this would 2 people who 

have lied about everything else suddenly become honest about 

photo's especially when his brother in law has his own site 

full of gory photoshopped images and says he has photoshop 

deluxe 6 that is noted for morphing, that is altering peoples 

faces taking out backgrounds COMBINING PHOTO,S etc. That is 

covered by another thread. Gerry Mccan suffers from hubris he 

thinks everyone else is thick that is why he lies in front of 

millions on tv and people that arrogant make mistakes. Maybe 

the photo's were all posed and photoshopped prior to this one 

this is just an extension of that because they were 

promotional photo's as singers have for GM to show them to 

porn rings or child traffickers before he sold Madelaine on 

the 3rd may that is probably why like you he is so confident 

they won't find the body! PS light does not bend!

Yes tigger exactly, it hits a nerve when brought into question and you get people popping up to discredit real evidence! Without it they would struggle to con people. A picture and a thousand words come to mind, other people see it as proof and that is crucial to their gameplan.

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Re: 'The Last Photo': The key questions

Post by dan55 on Tue 12 Nov 2013 - 11:21

Why would anyone defend the actions of people who are guilty of negligence, possibly fraud and possibly murder or child abuse. Verita's your actions don't make sense to you they are guilty and they are liars but they would not photoshop images to further their cause! illogical argument. Habitual liars seldom tell the truth.

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Re: 'The Last Photo': The key questions

Post by Snifferdog on Tue 12 Nov 2013 - 11:22

Many of the photos of Madeleine look photoshopped to me as many others and I have said before. It is obvious that A's arm is missing. IMO. And just purporting a theory, the horrible make up photo of Madeleine taken from below with the blank stare and deathly white skin with blue streaks and what looks like blue/grey marks on her neck is a warning/blackmail photo to someone? Perhaps surreptitiously taken?
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Re: 'The Last Photo': The key questions

Post by Snifferdog on Tue 12 Nov 2013 - 11:26

Well said Canada 12 Aquila Dan 55 and Tigger.
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Re: 'The Last Photo': The key questions

Post by Guest on Tue 12 Nov 2013 - 11:34

I am totally fed up with this and probably others here to. We are getting nowhere - you have your opinions and made them clear, going round and round in circles and the posts getting more argumentative, and it is getting disruptive now. Please agree to disagree.
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Re: 'The Last Photo': The key questions

Post by MarleneP on Tue 12 Nov 2013 - 11:43

I say to you, I have left the forum 3A years ago for the discussion about "the last photo". At that time, GESTALT was the leader. I think it does not matter whether the photo is genuine or not. It appeared anyway to way too late and the main mistakes were already made​​. The issues are still like this: why the video recording of the hotel was deleted?

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Re: 'The Last Photo': The key questions

Post by Snifferdog on Tue 12 Nov 2013 - 11:45

Sorry to have upset you Candyfloss but the photo shopping aspect is perhaps very important to those that are of the opinion that they are photoshopped. It is interesting to note that it is mostly posters who are trained in the arts who can see it.
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What video?

Post by worriedmum on Tue 12 Nov 2013 - 11:51

@MarleneP wrote:I say to you, I have left the forum 3A years ago for the discussion about "the last photo". At that time, GESTALT was the leader. I think it does not matter whether the photo is genuine or not. It appeared anyway to way too late and the main mistakes were already made​​. The issues are still like this: why the video recording of the hotel was deleted?
What was that please?
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Re: 'The Last Photo': The key questions

Post by Guest on Tue 12 Nov 2013 - 11:52

@Snifferdog wrote:Sorry to have upset you Candyfloss but the photo shopping aspect is perhaps  very important to those that are of the opinion that they are photoshopped. It is interesting to note that it is mostly posters who are trained in the arts who can see it.  
Not you Snifferdog, others who are becoming rather agitated.
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Re: 'The Last Photo': The key questions

Post by Mirage on Tue 12 Nov 2013 - 11:58

@aquila wrote:Snipped from tigger's post

"...and yes, they did need the photograph, still do as a matter of fact, because it comes up every time they're asked what their last memory of Maddie is. The Photograph!   It's produced like a rabbit out of a hat and that Professor Veritas, is exactly what it is, a conjuring trick.

Their LAST memory of Maddie would surely be the last time they saw her, played with her, talked with her? Gerry standing there with his 'proud father moment?'. Kate with Maddie telling her she had the best day ever?"


To my mind that really is the crux of the matter and why the photoshopping subject is so sensitive to some that it has to be denied categorically.
Ditto. Just as sensitive as the dogs IMO.

I've watched GM many times  on the 'last photo' subject. It is always prompted by the same question. Obviously an agreed set of questions beforehand. I'm thinking particularly of the Skavlan interviews on Swedish tv, last year.

"What is your last memory of Madeleine?"

And you know what's coming. The same rehearsed script. You can chant it with them.

The giveaway is that this particular question is always addressed to GM or picked up by GM. This time the question was definitely directed at him (he and Kate sat on opposite sofas for this interview).

Gerry takes a  few moments to arrange his face into the distant fond look and says - It was that last photo.

If you put yourself in a similar situation - for instance, the last time you saw a friend who later dies, or your daughter who emigrates. Someone asks you about that memory. Would the first words that trip off your tongue be: it was that last photo. As if nothing took place before or after was more significant than the moment a shutter clicked and an image produced.

You might say something like - We had a fabulous day together, laughing our heads off when my heel got stuck in the museum grating. We sat down for a coffee to recover and the waiter took this snap of us. I love this photo.  Carry it everywhere. It brings back that wonderful last day we had together.

Gerry talks about MM laughing, splashing and turning her head. Just beaming etc. Descriptions of what she is doing.  Does he actually reveal any emotional connection to the child?

 Can you imagine your very first response to emotional recall being a photographic image. Now that puzzles me. He talks about a photo being his last memory of a lost daughter. You would think he would reach into his pocket, draw out his wallet and show the interviewer the precious image. The photo forever embedded in his mind is presumably not in his wallet, not brought to the studio. This pivotal thing, this last connection. Absent. 

But wait. Some animal stole Gerry's wallet in London - Waterloo or Whitehall, pick your version. And inside it ....... some irreplaceable photos of MM. Something he is in the habit of carrying then. As well as some credit cards he told PT police he never owned.

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Re: 'The Last Photo': The key questions

Post by Guest on Tue 12 Nov 2013 - 12:00

candyfloss wrote:
@Snifferdog wrote:Sorry to have upset you Candyfloss but the photo shopping aspect is perhaps  very important to those that are of the opinion that they are photoshopped. It is interesting to note that it is mostly posters who are trained in the arts who can see it.  
Not you Snifferdog, others who are becoming rather agitated.
But to be fair on the other posters, only one poster has resorted to sarcasm and abusive remarks.
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Re: 'The Last Photo': The key questions

Post by dan55 on Tue 12 Nov 2013 - 12:05

Like you snifferdog I think there is a lot more to this gang and the photo's that would probably be unimaginable to most normal people. I still think it sad and KM has aged 25 years in 6 if she doesn't get off her chest what is bothering her I don't think she will be around much longer.I spent time working with abused children and you would not believe the files if you read them. I don't think about it anymore unless I have to.
I must apologise for my sarcasm or dark humour I am a bit OCD so I ask for some leeway and clemency.
Yes indeed what happened to the tapes the recordings.I think that night was the only one missing at the time!

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Re: 'The Last Photo': The key questions

Post by Guest on Tue 12 Nov 2013 - 12:16

@dan55 wrote:Like you snifferdog I think there is a lot more to this gang and the photo's that would probably be unimaginable to most normal people. I still think it sad and KM has aged 25 years in 6 if she doesn't get off her chest what is bothering her I don't think she will be around much longer.I spent time working with abused children and you would not believe the files if you read them. I don't think about it anymore unless I have to.
I must apologise for my sarcasm or dark humour I am a bit OCD so I ask for some leeway and clemency.
Yes indeed what happened to the tapes the recordings.I think that night was the only one missing at the time!
I didn't mean you Dan...thinking
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Re: 'The Last Photo': The key questions

Post by Snifferdog on Tue 12 Nov 2013 - 12:19

I did not notice any dark humour or sarcasm from you Dan 55. Dealing with child abuse must be an incredibly taxing occupation to be in and I take my hat off to you. it must be so difficult to shut out what you have seen and experienced and not let it affect your life too much. Don't know if Kates physical ageing has to do with her knowing what happened to Madeleine or the pressures of keeping the heat off. Be that as it may I do not see K coming forward to offer anything re what happened to Madeleine. She looked too happy walking around the streets of Praia da Luz with Gerry just after Madeleine disappeared.
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Re: 'The Last Photo': The key questions

Post by Snifferdog on Tue 12 Nov 2013 - 12:26

K Dan 55 and Dantezebu I'll help out here! . Let's call a spade a spade and stop beating round the bush. It was Veritas wot did it! :innocent face:
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Re: 'The Last Photo': The key questions

Post by Guest on Tue 12 Nov 2013 - 12:38

@Snifferdog wrote:K Dan 55 and Dantezebu I'll help out here! . Let's call a spade a spade and stop beating round the bush.  It was Veritas wot did it! :innocent face:
notme lol
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Re: 'The Last Photo': The key questions

Post by Guest on Tue 12 Nov 2013 - 12:39

Be careful! Wasn't it an innocent face emoticon which got Sally Bercow into such hot water with Lord McAlpine?

sarcastic
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Re: 'The Last Photo': The key questions

Post by Veritas on Tue 12 Nov 2013 - 12:44

dantezebu wrote:
candyfloss wrote:
@Snifferdog wrote:Sorry to have upset you Candyfloss but the photo shopping aspect is perhaps  very important to those that are of the opinion that they are photoshopped. It is interesting to note that it is mostly posters who are trained in the arts who can see it.  
Not you Snifferdog, others who are becoming rather agitated.
But to be fair on the other posters, only one poster has resorted to sarcasm and abusive remarks.
Out of curiosity, which bits of my posts were sarcasm and which were objectively stating the obvious? When did either become verboten? When specifically did anyone level an abusive remark, and how many people rather churlishly leapt to take offence and feign injury and then USE that false injury and the resort to the persecution complex as a means of keeping their untenable and unsupported imaginative fantasy regarded as if it were material fact? 

Someone very inAccurately just described, it seems, the support group for the feigned last photo as comprising a large number of trained graphics professionals. Who are they, what are their credentials, and can they present a convincing breakdown in graphic detail of the evidence of a forger which can stand up to academic scrutiny and hold water as a testament to itself? I'm curious, because after a working lifetime in design, print and publishing during which time most of my working life was spent in Photoshop from back when it came on floppy discs and you needed a £4k computer to use it, I just ain't seeing what you're saying you're seeing. I'm seeing a cloud, you're seeing a face.

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Re: 'The Last Photo': The key questions

Post by Snifferdog on Tue 12 Nov 2013 - 12:45

No Fate Worse Than De'Ath wrote:Be careful! Wasn't it an innocent face emoticon which got Sally Bercow into such hot water with Lord McAlpine?

sarcastic
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