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The Complete Mystery of Madeleine McCann™
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Post by MoonGoddess 03.11.13 20:35

candyfloss wrote:
@MoonGoddess wrote:
@Tony Bennett wrote:
@MoonGoddess wrote:Is it a myth that one of the Smith party asked ‘oh is she sleeping’?
It is claimed on behalf of - but not by - Mrs Mary Smith that she spoke to Smithman and challenged the man, asking if he was sleeping, but he is said to have put his head down and not answered, carrying on walking.

I can find no verbal or written statement by Mrs Smith confirming that.

Mrs Smith did not apparently travel to Portugal along with her husband and two children to confirm this encounter by way of a witness statement.
Thank You Tony roses
Mary Smith made a statement I think but it is not in the files we have, but it is withheld for some reason, I wonder why.
that would put an altogether different complexion on things, very interesting if that's the case candyfloss

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Post by Guest 03.11.13 20:35

Sharon, the name in the article is Kimber, not Kimbler.

P.S. I see that the name Kimber is connected with EMCOR though.
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Post by Cristobell 03.11.13 20:37

@canada12 wrote:Regarding Smithman, Tony Bennett wrote: "when they used it in the 2009 documentary, spent FIVE PAGES of their book developing it further in 2011"


Sorry, but have I been reading the facts wrong? I thought Kate suppressed all mention of the Smith sighting in her book and the McCanns kept it quiet, hence the writing of the Sunday Times article.

Tony, are you now telling us that Kate spent 5 pages in her book talking about the Smith sighting? Or am I misunderstanding you? And if that's the case, then the Sunday Times article is wrong?
Canada12, we have all known about the Smith sighting for several years.  It was the line of enquiry being followed by Goncalo Amaral when he was removed from the case.  Some believe his removal from the case was as a result of political interference.

The PJ then changed the course of their direction and the Smith sighting was forgotten.  However, if you read Goncalo Amaral's book The Truth of The Lie, it is discussed there.  Kate and Gerry had no option but to use the Smith in their own documentary, but they changed the man's appearance to match the Tanner sighting.  That is, the man seen with the child had long hair - 3 of the Smith family state that he had short hair.  Kate does indeed discuss the Smith family in her book, again it would have been highly suspicious if she had not.  However she did not use the e-fits that were in their possession according to the Sunday Times article, and interestingly she added to the Smith family evidence by stating that the man did not look comfortable holding a child. The Smiths never said that.  

While we were all aware of the Smith family sighting, we did not know that e-fits had been commissioned, nor did we know that a professional report was produced by that first team of investigators and suppressed by the McCanns.  The Smith sighting is very sensitive to Kate and Gerry, for whatever reason, in all the hundreds of appeals and interviews they have done, they have never used those e-fits nor the description given by Mr and Mrs Smith.  We now learn that not only did they allow that evidence to gather dust, but they also instructed lawyers to warn off their previous employees should they ever release details of their findings.  

I believe the Smith family, as there is no motive whatsoever for them to lie and a lie shared by 9 people, among them children, wouldn't strand up to scrutiny.  I believe they saw Gerry, not just by the accurate description they gave, but by the cover up afterwards beginning with the hastily dream't sighting of Jane Tanner and the actions taken by the McCanns to keep this evidence out of the public domain.
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Post by Tony Bennett 03.11.13 20:38

@susible wrote:I'm still waiting for the straightforward explanation for dismissing the Smith sighting from Tony, which he said he would pm to me as it was too sensitive to post on the forum.  I know people can be busy etc, but that was nearly an hour ago, and obviously I am not going to post anymore thoughts about the Smith sighting until I've read what he has to say.
Sorry, I have just returned to the forum, I have been in session with Les Balkwell (father of Lee Balkwell) since the last time I was on here and also been speaking to a nearby friend at length about his father who suddenly collapsed on the strret and died in hospital a couple of days ago (many issues to discuss about his financial affairs, wills, probate etc.), so it is unlikely to be tonight that I send my 'pm', I apologise

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Amelie McCann (aged 2): "Maddie's jammies!".  

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Post by Tony Bennett 03.11.13 20:42

@littlepixie wrote:
@ChillyHeat wrote:Another Irish man describing Gerry getting off the plane......

05-01-Apensos V, Vol 1, Pages 131
apenso5_vol_1_Page131
APENSOS V, Volume I, Supposed Sightings and Locations (FILE 01)....(PDF Page 119)....Page 137?"  Handwritten Richard McCluskey statement"
Page 137 (Page 1 of 1) (Copied and pasted from the Page 131 reference)
Statement made 12th September 2007


I am the above named person and I live at an address know to Police. In early May 2007 myself and my wife were on holiday in Portugal. I have already provided a witness statement in relation to the disappearance of Madeleine McCann. I would like to add the following;

The events of the past week or so, with the McCanns being very much in the news, have triggered my memory in relation to the incident.

In my original statement I described a distressed female who ran down a road towards a white van I had described.

Having viewed recent news footage of Mrs McCann I am now almost certain that she is the female I described as being in a distressed state. I say this because of her slight build, high cheekbones and her eyes and hairstyle.

I've agonised for days over whether or not to contact the police about this because it is a terrible thing to accuse somebody of. It had just not crossed my mind that the child?s parents could in some way be involved in her disappearance.

I have watched a good deal of news coverage about the McCanns over the past week or so. Another thing which has played on my mind is the coverage of Mr McCann walking off the aeroplane holding one of his young children. The way he was holding the child over his left shoulder reminded me of the man carrying the child from the white van in Portugal.

Although I could not describe the male I'd seen in Portugal because he had his back to me, it was the particular way Mr. McCann held the child that made me think. He held the child over his left shoulder with his left arm supporting the child?s weight.

The child's head was sort of hanging over behind Mr. McCann, this made me think back to the night in Portugal and it just looked like the same person.

(signed).......R McCluskey 
I have never understood this statement. IIRC the couple were identified and were not the McCanns? The statement is VERY similar to Mr Smiths though isn't it.
That is a very very interesting find, littlepixie, thank you - potentially very relevant to this thread, I will look into it further when I have some time to do so

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Dr Martin Roberts: "The evidence is that these are the pjyamas Madeleine wore on holiday in Praia da Luz. They were photographed and the photo handed to a press agency, who released it on 8 May, as the search for Madeleine continued. The McCanns held up these same pyjamas at two press conferences on 5 & 7June 2007. How could Madeleine have been abducted?"

Amelie McCann (aged 2): "Maddie's jammies!".  

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Post by NickE 03.11.13 20:45

Today you can read 16 extra pages in the Swedish newspaper 'Aftonbladet' about Maddie´s disappearance in a special story that you have to pay extra money for!no 


http://www.aftonbladet.se/nyheter/article17761929.ab?teaser=true
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Post by sharonl 03.11.13 20:47

No Fate Worse Than De'Ath wrote:Sharon, the name in the article is Kimber, not Kimbler.

P.S. I see that the name Kimber is connected with EMCOR though.
Sorry, a typo - the name is Kimber

Emcor is a Partner to Pact

Colin Kimber is account manager at Emcor Facilites

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Post by chillyheat 03.11.13 20:52

We know the file was suppressed but are we sure the e-fits were in there for all those years also ?
http://www.herald.ie/news/irish-couple-to-help-new-maddie-probe-28003417.html
In this link from the Herald dated 19 MARCH 2012
Now, the Irish couple who were interviewed by police following the girl's disappearance are bracing themselves to be reinterviewed.
Reports in British newspapers have claimed Scotland Yard officers will approach the Smith family in the coming weeks as they attempt to construct a photofit on the prime suspect.



So its possible that there is something more suppresible in the file.
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Post by littlepixie 03.11.13 21:00

@Tony Bennett wrote:
@littlepixie wrote:Susible, I hope Tony could send it to me too as I am really interested in this.
Yes I will do this.
Thanks Tony.
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Post by Cristobell 03.11.13 21:04

@MarleneP wrote:At the moment it looks to me like this:
The two sightings were invented to relieve somebody. Tanner  protected Gerry and Smith wanted to take Murat from the firing line. 
Why the two needed help?
The sightings helped McCanns for their abduction theory.
If there were no sightings and no kidnapping, two suspects remain: Gerry and Murat.
Has Murat tknown the tractor driver, who died in 2009 of accidental death?
I can't agree with Tony on the Smith sighting I am afraid.  I believe it to be genuine.

Why would an innocent man on holiday with his wife, kids and grandchildren, lie for an acquaintance who may be the perpetrator of an evil crime against a child?  Not only that, said Martin Smith also implicated his wife and his children in a complex scenario that could see them all prosecuted if they are lying.  

Again and again, I have to convince myself to Keep It Simple Stupid (KISS).  We have always known that the McCanns did not want the Smith sighting publicised.  We now discover that they instructed solicitors to suppress it.  

I tend to think Murat is not involved.  There is no evidence of collusion between him and the McCanns, he was the perfect distraction when things were getting hot.  I am not sure they are completely done with him, and wouldn't be at all surprised if they point the finger at him again if they get trapped in a corner.  

I am not quite sure why you think the Smith sighting is suspicious Tony, especially given the McCanns wanted it kept hidden.
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Post by littlepixie 03.11.13 21:05

@Tony Bennett wrote:
@littlepixie wrote:
@ChillyHeat wrote:Another Irish man describing Gerry getting off the plane......

05-01-Apensos V, Vol 1, Pages 131
apenso5_vol_1_Page131
APENSOS V, Volume I, Supposed Sightings and Locations (FILE 01)....(PDF Page 119)....Page 137?"  Handwritten Richard McCluskey statement"
Page 137 (Page 1 of 1) (Copied and pasted from the Page 131 reference)
Statement made 12th September 2007


I am the above named person and I live at an address know to Police. In early May 2007 myself and my wife were on holiday in Portugal. I have already provided a witness statement in relation to the disappearance of Madeleine McCann. I would like to add the following;

The events of the past week or so, with the McCanns being very much in the news, have triggered my memory in relation to the incident.

In my original statement I described a distressed female who ran down a road towards a white van I had described.

Having viewed recent news footage of Mrs McCann I am now almost certain that she is the female I described as being in a distressed state. I say this because of her slight build, high cheekbones and her eyes and hairstyle.

I've agonised for days over whether or not to contact the police about this because it is a terrible thing to accuse somebody of. It had just not crossed my mind that the child?s parents could in some way be involved in her disappearance.

I have watched a good deal of news coverage about the McCanns over the past week or so. Another thing which has played on my mind is the coverage of Mr McCann walking off the aeroplane holding one of his young children. The way he was holding the child over his left shoulder reminded me of the man carrying the child from the white van in Portugal.

Although I could not describe the male I'd seen in Portugal because he had his back to me, it was the particular way Mr. McCann held the child that made me think. He held the child over his left shoulder with his left arm supporting the child?s weight.

The child's head was sort of hanging over behind Mr. McCann, this made me think back to the night in Portugal and it just looked like the same person.

(signed).......R McCluskey 
I have never understood this statement. IIRC the couple were identified and were not the McCanns? The statement is VERY similar to Mr Smiths though isn't it.
That is a very very interesting find, littlepixie, thank you - potentially very relevant to this thread, I will look into it further when I have some time to do so
Credit to Chillyheat as they posted the article.
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Post by bellum 03.11.13 21:16

Already in 2007, perhaps September, at least one of the Tapas wanted to change his/her statement. This person told a lawyer of his/her fear of the political lobby around the McCanns, that is why the statement was not changed.

On his documentary, Amaral tells that the Smiths were somewhat afraid to talk.
That was in 2009, when nobody knew that News International (Murdoch) was the motor behind the case. The power of the MCanns was a mystery.

Things have changed, 180 degrees, and now we have the story turned upside down, and I even believe that at least Jane Tanner changed her statement. That is why the Scotland Yard cancelled her sighting. The Eggman never existed. It was a loving father, going to the creche instead of coming back.  Mistakes are human.

I think that the Smiths are prepared to keep their same statements, now that they know that the McCanns' power went down to zero.  No Gordon Brown around. No News International.

I believe the Smithman was Gerry and that is why the McCanns refuse to do a reconstruction.
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Post by DurhamGuy1967 03.11.13 21:18

@bellum wrote:Already in 2007, perhaps September, at least one of the Tapas wanted to change his/her statement. This person told a lawyer of his/her fear of the political lobby around the McCanns, that is why the statement was not changed.

On his documentary, Amaral tells that the Smiths were somewhat afraid to talk.
That was in 2009, when nobody knew that News International (Murdoch) was the motor behind the case. The power of the MCanns was a mystery.

Things have changed, 180 degrees, and now we have the story turned upside down, and I even believe that at least Jane Tanner changed her statement. That is why the Scotland Yard cancelled her sighting. The Eggman never existed. It was a loving father, going to the creche instead of coming back.  Mistakes are human.

I think that the Smiths are prepared to keep their same statements, now that they know that the McCanns' power went down to zero.  No Gordon Brown around. No News International.

I believe the Smithman was Gerry and that is why the McCanns refuse to do a reconstruction.
That and the fact I think there would be issues with their timeline
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Post by Tony Bennett 03.11.13 21:23

@Tony Bennett wrote:
@SixMillionQuid wrote:Can some enlighten me about this Kellys Bar receipt for 21:55pm?

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MARTIN_SMITH.htm

There's an entry 21:50 then it jumps to 22:16
Thank you for raising this point.

I have always understood that the story was that the Smiths paid their 'bar billl' at 9.55pm, then walked out of Kelly's Bar on their way back to the Estrela da Luz complex, seeing Smithman at about 10.00pm.

I have always taken it on trust that there existed a receipt for drinks, ordered by the Smiths, at 9.55pm. I assumed that for some reason the Smiths had kept the receipt themselves.

Here we have the till receipts from 8pm to midnight.

If indeed there are no receipts between 9.50pm and 10.16pm, then are we to assume that the Smiths paid their bar bill at 9.50pm? I can't read the receipts very easily.

I assume then that (if it is indeed theirs) the 9.50pm receipt would be for around 9 (or more) drinks?

The whole timing of the Smiths' 'sighting' has been fixed around this 9.55pm receipt, so one way or another, these till receipts must prove which one is theirs.
I am not sure if anyone has carried this point on any further.

I have now checked the till receipts mentioned by SixMillionQuid.

There are 20 receipts, total value during the four hours: 148.50 euros

This is a full record of them, from 8.00pm on 3 May 2007 to 12.02am:


8.01  18.25 euros

8.15  3.15 euros

8.20 24.50 euros

8.52 1.50 euros

9.39 13.75 euros

9.46 8.00 euros

9.49 8.00 euros

9.50 5.00 euros

10.16 8.00 euros

10.24 4.00 euros

10.28 3.00 euros

10.29 1.25 euros

10.31 5.75 euros

10.47 1.00 euros

10.53 16.50 euros

11.09 5.75 euros

11.30 5.75 euros

11.49 10.00 euros

11.50 2.75 euros

12.02 2.50 euros

The four in bold are the only four that fit the Smiths' account of moving from the Dolphin restaurant at 'between 9.00pm and 9.30pm to Kelly's Bar' and leaving 'around or shortly before 10.00pm'.

I cannot find any information about which (if any of them) is said to be the Smiths' bill.

All four IMO are small bills for a family of 9. The Smiths do not say what they ordered.

8 euros might buy 3 or 4 drinks.

Did they pay when the drinks were ordered? - probably.

Or when they left? - unlikely.

So, did they order 13.50 euros worth of drinks at 9.39pm - and then leave about quarter of an hour later? We do not know.

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Amelie McCann (aged 2): "Maddie's jammies!".  

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Post by bellum 03.11.13 21:35

Apparently all of the vans in Portugal are white and all of the reliable witnesses are Irish.
A lot easier for the PJ.
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Post by JackieL 03.11.13 21:38

@bellum wrote:Apparently all of the vans in Portugal are white and all of the reliable witnesses are Irish.
A lot easier for the PJ.
LOL!! laughat laughat 

By the way, great previous post - good summary of how things stand in my opinion.
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Post by bellum 03.11.13 21:44

It could be that the Smiths payed their bills separately.
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Post by susible 03.11.13 21:48

@bellum wrote:It could be that the Smiths payed their bills separately.
Yes, that's a valid point
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Post by justthinking 03.11.13 21:48

Is it OK for Tony Bennett to be commenting on all this? (with the court injunction etc.)
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Post by sonic72 03.11.13 21:49

@Cristobell wrote:
I tend to think Murat is not involved.  There is no evidence of collusion between him and the McCanns, he was the perfect distraction when things were getting hot.  I am not sure they are completely done with him, and wouldn't be at all surprised if they point the finger at him again if they get trapped in a corner.  
Gerry and Murat were on the phone at the same time on 3rd May, to the minute. Big coincidence imo.

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Post by chillyheat 03.11.13 21:50

SY has almost certainly crushed any chance of a reconstruction...And possibly any chance of any convictions.
Tossed out Tannerman. Told to focus on the new "revelation". Do you honestly think Gerry would do a reconstruction. His first answer would be "How the eff could I have been in 2 places at once".
I think thats SY answer too.

I hope Im making sense.
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Post by Tony Bennett 03.11.13 21:52

@justthinking wrote:Is it OK for Tony Bennett to be commenting on all this? (with the court injunction etc.)
How very kind of you to ask.

I do have the freedom to write about the case but not to repeat any alleged libels.

It has not actually been established by a court that I have libelled anyone.

What is established is that - never mind what pressures I was under to do so - I gave Court undertakings not to libel the McCanns and must abide by them.


ETA:  Are you any relation to 'StraightThinking'?

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Amelie McCann (aged 2): "Maddie's jammies!".  

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Post by MoonGoddess 03.11.13 21:56

@Tony Bennett wrote:
@justthinking wrote:Is it OK for Tony Bennett to be commenting on all this? (with the court injunction etc.)
How very kind of you to ask.

I do have the freedom to write about the case but not to repeat any alleged libels.

It has not actually been established by a court that I have libelled anyone.

What is established is that - never mind what pressures I was under to do so - I gave Court undertakings not to libel the McCanns and must abide by them.
It must be like walking on eggshells.... tread carefully Tony. x

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Post by justthinking 03.11.13 21:57

ah right....it's just that I seem to remember seeing several posts where people have commented on the irony/injustice of you apparently being the "only person in the country not allowed to comment on the case"
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Post by Okeydokey 03.11.13 22:01

@ChillyHeat wrote:Another Irish man describing Gerry getting off the plane......

05-01-Apensos V, Vol 1, Pages 131
apenso5_vol_1_Page131
APENSOS V, Volume I, Supposed Sightings and Locations (FILE 01)....(PDF Page 119)....Page 137?"  Handwritten Richard McCluskey statement"
Page 137 (Page 1 of 1) (Copied and pasted from the Page 131 reference)
Statement made 12th September 2007


I am the above named person and I live at an address know to Police. In early May 2007 myself and my wife were on holiday in Portugal. I have already provided a witness statement in relation to the disappearance of Madeleine McCann. I would like to add the following;

The events of the past week or so, with the McCanns being very much in the news, have triggered my memory in relation to the incident.

In my original statement I described a distressed female who ran down a road towards a white van I had described.

Having viewed recent news footage of Mrs McCann I am now almost certain that she is the female I described as being in a distressed state. I say this because of her slight build, high cheekbones and her eyes and hairstyle.

I've agonised for days over whether or not to contact the police about this because it is a terrible thing to accuse somebody of. It had just not crossed my mind that the child?s parents could in some way be involved in her disappearance.

I have watched a good deal of news coverage about the McCanns over the past week or so. Another thing which has played on my mind is the coverage of Mr McCann walking off the aeroplane holding one of his young children. The way he was holding the child over his left shoulder reminded me of the man carrying the child from the white van in Portugal.

Although I could not describe the male I'd seen in Portugal because he had his back to me, it was the particular way Mr. McCann held the child that made me think. He held the child over his left shoulder with his left arm supporting the child?s weight.

The child's head was sort of hanging over behind Mr. McCann, this made me think back to the night in Portugal and it just looked like the same person.

(signed).......R McCluskey 
Extremely interesting. Do we have the original statement?  I have a vague recollection of this...it is a rather important sighting isn't it?
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