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Post by Carver on 03.11.13 12:19

@plebgate wrote:
@worriedmum wrote:
Dee Coy wrote:
@Carver wrote:
Dee Coy wrote:
@Carver wrote:
Doesn't this explain precisely why the McCann's may have dismissed Smithman before?
The McCanns are not, and should never have been in a position to 'dismiss' anything.
Excuse me? It was the McCanns fund paying for it wasn't it (regardless of it being donations, they raised them) This makes them more than entitled to choose what lead they want to spend the money on.
Actually,  his latter comment here made me wonder if he was from TM. So vehement and indignant all of a sudden, as if he'd been provoked into sudden outrage.
Yes and the use of the word 'entitled', lol! 
Re. the red highlighting that made me laugh -"they raised them".  

Did they really.  My understanding of people raising money is to actually go out interact with the general public, usually standing for hours with a tin/box or to take part in different events involving lots of training such as cycle races, running races, swimathons etc.

As I remember it they had a spokesperson appearing on tv/radio asking people to put money in an envelope marked Kate and Gerry, Rothley and it would get to them.   They also had the world media reporting on poor little missing Maddie with the message help us look for her, leave no stone unturned and the money was flooding in from that to.

Oh that all charities/funds had such a spokesperson, access to the media.

I am not saying that people did not do local fun runs and baking events etc., but to say THEY raised the monies, is I believe, a slight exaggeration.
You donate to a website they run. They're responsible for keeping the case in the public eye. Strange actions for a guilty couple who committed the 'perfect crime' with what must have been only minutes of planning.
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Post by mouse on 03.11.13 12:22

To be honest I don't know where I stand on the Smith family sightings - I never have. I just feel there is too much vagueness, tbh about all the witness statements - so I await what the PJ say with much interest. 

I do think however, like many others on here that poor Madeleine did have an accident in/or around the very close vicinity of the apartment. The admittance of a drug to her and her siblings has always seemed the most likely explanation to what happened to her. Not necessarily that she was over prescribed, more that she might have woken due to being possibly under prescribed/or it just didn't work on her - we're all so different. That she when awoke called out for her parents, maybe felt a little muzzy in the heard from the drug, tottered out of bed, unsteady on her feet, and fell in the apartment, or going out of the apartment. Either way, if she was dozy her head would have hit a hard floor, or perhaps outside...? I think more likely inside. As for not leaving her siblings. Well what if she had tried to wake them and due to their being medicated too - perhaps she couldn't, and was worried about their welfare..Her reason for going to find Mum and Dad...

Sorry just thinking aloud.

And sorry - just realised I posted this on the wrong thread. Please ignore folks
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Post by SchrodingersBody on 03.11.13 12:24

@Carver wrote:And so it begins. I'm a troll because I don't share your opinion?

I don't have proof of the abduction I just find it the easiest explanation to believe.

Why don't you require the same level of proof for your own theory? All these years and not one mistake by these 2 doctors turned mastermind criminals?
Leaving their kids alone wasn't a mistake ? and that's just the biggest one.

Abduction is not the easiest explanation to believe, in my opinion, but I acknowledge it is a possibility. Whilst it remains a possibility, and no single course of events can be proven to have happened, to the satisfaction of a courthouse, then those involved, whoever they may be have "got away with it" as it were.

You believe that an abductor has got away with it, I think somebody else got away with something. I guess we both remain frustrated until some more is revealed and a case can be brought, and even then, some people are so entrenched in their views, that the words cover-up will then feature by whichever side is proven to be "wrong".
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Post by Guest on 03.11.13 12:26

Carver, there are so many WTF moments for me in the way that the McCanns have behaved, from setting up a dodgy limited company in near record time, the pre-planning of anniversary events when Madeleine had in all likelihood wandered off and would be found at any moment to being unable to hide their laughter at inappropriate moments.

Can you honestly say that there has been nothing ever about their behaviour which makes you think that something is very wrong?
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Post by plebgate on 03.11.13 12:31

They may run the website but large amounts of money were not gained from that.  Read my post.

If you can show me a breakdown of monies received, how much from website donations etc.  I might start to go with what you say, but until then, do think about what you post please.

As to why they keep the case in the public eye, there are threads which have been posted on the subject.  You might like to read and give us your considered thoughts on them. smilie

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Post by plebgate on 03.11.13 12:33

@Carver wrote:And so it begins. I'm a troll because I don't share your opinion?

I don't have proof of the abduction I just find it the easiest explanation to believe.

Why don't you require the same level of proof for your own theory? All these years and not one mistake by these 2 doctors turned mastermind criminals?
What do you mean when you say all these years and not one mistake by these 2 doctors turned mastermind criminals please?
edited, spelling.
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Post by sami on 03.11.13 12:39

@plebgate wrote:
@Carver wrote:And so it begins. I'm a troll because I don't share your opinion?

I don't have proof of the abduction I just find it the easiest explanation to believe.

Why don't you require the same level of proof for your own theory? All these years and not one mistake by these 2 doctors turned mastermind criminals?
What do you mean when you say all these years and not one mistake by these 2 doctors turned mastermind criminals please?
edited, spelling.
How glad am I you are not a police officer !  You find something the easiest explanation so it must be true.  Seriously ??

I would beg to differ about mistakes, IMO they have made plenty of mistakes over the years, most of which you will find discussed in this forum.
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Post by Carver on 03.11.13 12:44

@plebgate wrote:
@Carver wrote:And so it begins. I'm a troll because I don't share your opinion?

I don't have proof of the abduction I just find it the easiest explanation to believe.

Why don't you require the same level of proof for your own theory? All these years and not one mistake by these 2 doctors turned mastermind criminals?
What do you mean when you say all these years and not one mistake by these 2 doctors turned mastermind criminals please?
edited, spelling.
If the couple found their daughter dead and impulsively agreed to cover up the death, and Smithman being GM, this would mean Gerry running to the beach with the body, hiding it so well in a strange country in the dark that even the locals and authorities couldn't find it, returning to the Tapas as though nothing happened just in time for Kate to raise the alarm. They instantly become experts in lying to the police. Then the couple later move the body to more permanent hiding place at a later date in the hire car despite being under under constant media watch. Having seemingly gotten away with this master coverup, instead of putting it behind them like any guilty couple would be desperate to do, they try their hardest to keep the case in the public eye and write letters to the Prime Minister, begging various authorities to dig deeper.

And I'm a troll because I have an easier time believing an unknown abductor walked into the apartment and took the child. Jeezo.
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Post by plebgate on 03.11.13 12:45

Exactly Sami, I think there might be a bit of "baiting" going on?

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Post by Carver on 03.11.13 12:47

@sami wrote:
@plebgate wrote:
@Carver wrote:And so it begins. I'm a troll because I don't share your opinion?

I don't have proof of the abduction I just find it the easiest explanation to believe.

Why don't you require the same level of proof for your own theory? All these years and not one mistake by these 2 doctors turned mastermind criminals?
What do you mean when you say all these years and not one mistake by these 2 doctors turned mastermind criminals please?
edited, spelling.
How glad am I you are not a police officer ! 
You mean like Scotland Yard dectives who also believe the same as I do?
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Post by plebgate on 03.11.13 12:48

@Carver wrote:
@plebgate wrote:
@Carver wrote:And so it begins. I'm a troll because I don't share your opinion?

I don't have proof of the abduction I just find it the easiest explanation to believe.

Why don't you require the same level of proof for your own theory? All these years and not one mistake by these 2 doctors turned mastermind criminals?
What do you mean when you say all these years and not one mistake by these 2 doctors turned mastermind criminals please?
edited, spelling.
If the couple found their daughter dead and impulsively agreed to cover up the death, and Smithman being GM, this would mean Gerry running to the beach with the body, hiding it so well in a strange country in the dark that even the locals and authorities couldn't find it, returning to the Tapas as though nothing happened just in time for Kate to raise the alarm. They instantly become experts in lying to the police. Then the couple later move the body to more permanent hiding place at a later date in the hire car despite being under under constant media watch. Having seemingly gotten away with this master coverup, instead of putting it behind them like any guilty couple would be desperate to do, they try their hardest to keep the case in the public eye and write letters to the Prime Minister, begging various authorities to dig deeper.

And I'm a troll because I have an easier time believing an unknown abductor walked into the apartment and took the child. Jeezo.
Many threads here on all your points.  If you are really intereted in the beliefs of posters here, I understand use of the search tool will take you to the threads.

No point imo going over old ground with someone for sake of it.

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Post by Guest on 03.11.13 12:49

@plebgate wrote:Exactly Sami, I think there might be a bit of "baiting" going on?
I would think the trolls become more active when someone gets a little nearer the truth.
It's just to distract and derail
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Post by tasprin on 03.11.13 12:50

@plebgate wrote:
@Carver wrote:And so it begins. I'm a troll because I don't share your opinion?

I don't have proof of the abduction I just find it the easiest explanation to believe.

Why don't you require the same level of proof for your own theory? All these years and not one mistake by these 2 doctors turned mastermind criminals?
What do you mean when you say all these years and not one mistake by these 2 doctors turned mastermind criminals please?
edited, spelling.
Haha! Priceless! You said it.

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Post by Guest on 03.11.13 12:51

As I said before, it's the behaviour of the McCanns ever since whatever happened in May 2007 that needs to be taken into account too.

It sets the alarms off at every turn.
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Post by sami on 03.11.13 12:55

@Carver wrote:
@sami wrote:
@plebgate wrote:
@Carver wrote:And so it begins. I'm a troll because I don't share your opinion?

I don't have proof of the abduction I just find it the easiest explanation to believe.

Why don't you require the same level of proof for your own theory? All these years and not one mistake by these 2 doctors turned mastermind criminals?
What do you mean when you say all these years and not one mistake by these 2 doctors turned mastermind criminals please?
edited, spelling.
How glad am I you are not a police officer ! 
You mean like Scotland Yard dectives who also believe the same as I do?
Do they ?   Because its the easiest explanation or its the truth ?  Last i heard from Redwood, abduction was possible based on ONE reading of the evidence.  Have I missed a Crimewatch episode this week ?
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Post by ProfessorPPlum on 03.11.13 13:07

Carver, you'd be responded to the same way if you went to an atheism forum and expected the people there to believe in your god because you just KNEW he existed...period.

'Trolling' doesn't mean you love team McCann or believe everything they say. It means engaging in online activity with the intent of disrupting the conversation. Sure have a different view. You have one. Nobody's insulting you for that. You think an abduction is the most rational explanation - to YOU. It's clear that that view is not shared by the majority of people here. 

You suggest that WE don't require the same levels of proofs WE demand of you. Of course we do. And we've already (over the years) put forward the body of evidence suggesting that a) MM died in 5A and b) the McCanns (for some unknown reason) staged an abduction. Supporting this theory is everything in the PJ investigation and conclusions before it was shelved, all the clear inconsistencies in the statements of the T9 freely available in the files and all of Team McCann's various behaviours over the years. 

By comparison, you just think that it makes more sense. Without a single piece of evidence other than Carver's 'say so'. And when we point out that it's in fact YOU who doesn't feel you have to answer any questions or supply any evidence to back up your thesis, you get upset? 

THAT is the trademark behaviour of a troll. 

If you're not trolling, then engage in this discussion and by the conventional rules of investigation: a theory (just like a scientific theory) is proposed to be deliberately knocked down. If the evidence is strong and cannot be knocked down, that theory stands and is the likely explanation. 

Be clear - there are no other rules in this game.

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Post by Jackie Regan on 03.11.13 13:17

Is  there ANY evidence whatsoever of an abduction???

I would say NO....BUT the large problem here is a 3 year old child went missing & has never been found.

It's the emotion & enormity that IMO prevents alot of people (Sheeple?) being able to see past this scenario.

I personally believe that not all of the T7 are fully aware of what really occurred....and as from a wider public perspective..I don't think we EVER WILL!!
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Post by ProfessorPPlum on 03.11.13 13:28

From a police and legal perspective, if there's no evidence of something happening then we should proceed as if it didn't happen. If we find evidence that points to an abduction happening, then we can open that line of investigation up again. 

Just imagine all of the million things that 'could have happened' and where we'd be if we took them all seriously (without any supporting evidence). That would be chaos - aka The Great British Mainstream Media. sarcastic

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Post by plebgate on 03.11.13 13:34

@ProfessorPPlum wrote:From a police and legal perspective, if there's no evidence of something happening then we should proceed as if it didn't happen. If we find evidence that points to an abduction happening, then we can open that line of investigation up again. 

Just imagine all of the million things that 'could have happened' and where we'd be if we took them all seriously (without any supporting evidence). That would be chaos - aka The Great British Mainstream Media. sarcastic
I am not a policeman, but if I were I think I would have first of all asked Mrs. exactly how she just knew Maddie had been abducted.   How can you just know something like that?   Didn't Mrs. at one point say something like - I know things that happened and "you" don't.  I know it's not exact wording-  but have the police ever asked her exactly what those things were?

As it is public money being used (AFAWAA) aren't the public entitled to an update every few weeks as to what has transpired since the CW appeals?
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Post by worriedmum on 03.11.13 13:54

@Carver wrote:
@plebgate wrote:
@Carver wrote:And so it begins. I'm a troll because I don't share your opinion?

I don't have proof of the abduction I just find it the easiest explanation to believe.

Why don't you require the same level of proof for your own theory? All these years and not one mistake by these 2 doctors turned mastermind criminals?
What do you mean when you say all these years and not one mistake by these 2 doctors turned mastermind criminals please?
edited, spelling.
If the couple found their daughter dead and impulsively agreed to cover up the death, and Smithman being GM, this would mean Gerry running to the beach with the body, hiding it so well in a strange country in the dark that even the locals and authorities couldn't find it, returning to the Tapas as though nothing happened just in time for Kate to raise the alarm. They instantly become experts in lying to the police. Then the couple later move the body to more permanent hiding place at a later date in the hire car despite being under under constant media watch. Having seemingly gotten away with this master coverup, instead of putting it behind them like any guilty couple would be desperate to do, they try their hardest to keep the case in the public eye and write letters to the Prime Minister, begging various authorities to dig deeper.

And I'm a troll because I have an easier time believing an unknown abductor walked into the apartment and took the child. Jeezo.
Jeezo!

Kate says a similar thing here!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=J0pBdLyJJhE#t=633
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Post by Hicks on 03.11.13 13:58

@Carver wrote:
@sami wrote:
@plebgate wrote:
@Carver wrote:And so it begins. I'm a troll because I don't share your opinion?

I don't have proof of the abduction I just find it the easiest explanation to believe.

Why don't you require the same level of proof for your own theory? All these years and not one mistake by these 2 doctors turned mastermind criminals?
What do you mean when you say all these years and not one mistake by these 2 doctors turned mastermind criminals please?
edited, spelling.
How glad am I you are not a police officer ! 
You mean like Scotland Yard dectives who also believe the same as I do?
Please can you put forward a reasonable explanation of why a specialist cadaver dog gave markings- ONLY- in the McCann's apartment- ONLY on Kate's clothes- ONLY in the McCann's hire car?

How can this ignored?

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Post by russiandoll on 03.11.13 14:47

quote   :    You mean like Scotland Yard detectives who also believe the same as I do?


 Unless you are part of the Grange team you do not know what the theory is re Maddie's disappearance.
 

 btw no one asked you for proof of an abduction; I believe you were asked what made you conclude that a stranger abduction had taken place..I have yet to see any answer from you. How about some evidence from the files which leads to your conclusion?

Why are you here if you are not going to provide any points for debate?

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Post by Guest on 03.11.13 14:47

@worriedmum wrote:

Jeezo!

Kate says a similar thing here!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=J0pBdLyJJhE#t=633
***
Worriedmum, can you please give an indication as at what time in this video she says that?
I'm a bit weary of going through yet another quarter of an hour of TM talk ...
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Post by jeanmonroe on 03.11.13 14:56

"If the couple found their daughter dead and impulsively agreed to cover up the death, and Smithman being GM, this would mean Gerry running to the beach with the body, hiding it so well in a strange country in the dark that even the locals and authorities couldn't find it, returning to the Tapas as though nothing happened just in time for Kate to raise the alarm."
..............................................................................................................

And GM and his friend DP going back out again only TO THE BEACH at 4:00AM, 4th May 2007,, when supposedly EVERYONE else had gone 'home' as KM said.

Surely not to 'remove something' to 'somewhere'?

There are no 'actual' reports of these two being 'seen' searching by anyone else at that time...............ONLY their word!
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Post by stillsloppingout on 03.11.13 15:16

CarverIf the couple found their daughter dead and impulsively agreed to cover up the death, and Smithman being GM, this would mean Gerry running to the beach with the body, hiding it so well in a strange country in the dark that even the locals and authorities couldn't find it, returning to the Tapas as though nothing happened just in time for Kate to raise the alarm. They instantly become experts in lying to the police. Then the couple later move the body to more permanent hiding place at a later date in the hire car despite being under under constant media watch. Having seemingly gotten away with this master coverup, instead of putting it behind them like any guilty couple would be desperate to do, they try their hardest to keep the case in the public eye and write letters to the Prime Minister, begging various authorities to dig deeper. wrote:
And I'm a troll because I have an easier time believing an unknown abductor walked into the apartment and took the child. Jeezo.
OK Lets go over your points one by one [ Firstly though welcome to the forum , and also hi to everybody new posting from overseas [ really !!!!  its friends associates on holiday with a lap top  , the new tactic is to make challenge for challenge sake , but at the same time try not to annoy the forum members . ALL  very transparent to me ] .

Where was we oh yes .

 First point and i do expect a reply with you OWN OPINIONS and not the three line whip !! .  

Point 1  the Body ; IMO with help, ended up in the small church in PDL . [ Gerry was on his way to it when he was seen , if the sighting is genuine . 

Point 2 the hire car . i know about half a dozen snappers who were over there .

 I have said before ,there was NO MEDIA FOLLOWING THEM AT ANY TIME ,[ except when they were made arguido outside the court ]  AND NO PAPARAZZI  EITHER , they were free to go wherever they wished , even if that included taking an extra passenger in the wheel well of a car !!.

Point 3 . Keeping in the media eye . They have to they have no choice ,as they started the media ball rolling , any refusals to comply would be questioned , and like Jimmy Saville the bigger the person's you try to associate with the more credibility it gives you . 

It is called Hiding in Plain sight . Good tactic it has served them well . so well it has fooled you .
stillsloppingout
stillsloppingout

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