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The Complete Mystery of Madeleine McCann™
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SMITHMAN 2 - What can account for the 17 remarkable similarities between Tannerman and Smithman?

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Why are there 17 similarities between Tannerman and Smithman?

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Post by cass7 25.10.13 14:07

cocked the quote up - my up too
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Post by Tony Bennett 25.10.13 14:08

pennylane wrote:
tiny wrote:
pennylane wrote:
tiny wrote:
Sockpuppet wrote:Can you please add the option:

'Jane Tanner engineered her sighting to match the appearance of the man witnessed by the Smith family'.
thumbsup that's what I think jane did,because Gerry had been seen so good old jane had to come up with this
That is what Goncalo Amaral said Jane Tanner did!
well I didn't know that.its good to know that there are at least 2 on the right trackbig grin
Goncalo Amaral was interviewed on a TV talk show, and he spoke of Jane Tanner's dodgy dual sighting of Gerry and Bundleman, and what he felt was the reason the "swarthy" Bundleman's attire matched Gerry's.
I wasn't aware of that (bolded bit).

Do you have a link, please, pennylane?

____________________

Dr Martin Roberts: "The evidence is that these are the pjyamas Madeleine wore on holiday in Praia da Luz. They were photographed and the photo handed to a press agency, who released it on 8 May, as the search for Madeleine continued. The McCanns held up these same pyjamas at two press conferences on 5 & 7June 2007. How could Madeleine have been abducted?"

Amelie McCann (aged 2): "Maddie's jammies!".  

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Post by Guest 25.10.13 14:10

Tony Bennett wrote:
Sockpuppet wrote:The Smith sighting was at 9.55pm - 10.00pm.

The first GNR patrol car arrived at 11.00pm - 11.05pm.

That's at least an hour in which to discuss the Smith sighting and write timelines.

How is this impossible?
Intriguing.

Please explain how it is physically possible for Martin Smith to communicate his sighting to Jane Tanner before 11.00pmon 3 May 2007.

(Especially given that he waited several days and was back home in Drogheda before picking up the 'phone and dialling Portimao 1212).

Where is this likely to have happened?
Tony, he wouldn't need to communicate anything...........
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Post by Sockpuppet 25.10.13 14:10

Tony Bennett wrote:
Sockpuppet wrote:The Smith sighting was at 9.55pm - 10.00pm.

The first GNR patrol car arrived at 11.00pm - 11.05pm.

That's at least an hour in which to discuss the Smith sighting and write timelines.

How is this impossible?
Intriguing.

Please explain how it is physically possible for Martin Smith to communicate his sighting to Jane Tanner before 11.00pmon 3 May 2007.

(Especially given that he waited several days and was back home in Drogheda before picking up the 'phone and dialling Portimao 1212).

Where is this likely to have happened?
Who said that Martin Smith communicated with Jane Tanner?  I haven't.  You're putting words in my mouth.

The person that Martin Smith and family saw POSSIBLY returned to apartment 5A and told Jane Tanner.

That is physically POSSIBLE, even if the person walked stupidly slowly all the way.

I believe we have covered possibility, haven't we?

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Post by pennylane 25.10.13 14:14

Tony Bennett wrote:
pennylane wrote:
tiny wrote:
pennylane wrote:
tiny wrote:
Sockpuppet wrote:Can you please add the option:

'Jane Tanner engineered her sighting to match the appearance of the man witnessed by the Smith family'.
thumbsup that's what I think jane did,because Gerry had been seen so good old jane had to come up with this
That is what Goncalo Amaral said Jane Tanner did!
well I didn't know that.its good to know that there are at least 2 on the right trackbig grin
Goncalo Amaral was interviewed on a TV talk show, and he spoke of Jane Tanner's dodgy dual sighting of Gerry and Bundleman, and what he felt was the reason the "swarthy" Bundleman's attire matched Gerry's.
I wasn't aware of that (bolded bit).

Do you have a link, please, pennylane?
Hi Tony, I haven't seen it for ages, but I will look for it.   It's a female interviewer, and Amaral was interviewed alongside another man, that was also talking about the McCann shenanigans.  By the way, the "swarthy" bit is Jane's description, not Amaral's.... I realise that was confusing.

If anyone else can help track it down I'd appreciate it.
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Post by Seek truth 25.10.13 14:16

candyfloss wrote: 8. She was being held on the man’s left side


Both gave different accounts re this.  Tanners was lying in his arms on front of his chest.  Smith said she was being carried over the shoulder.

Did Smith say the girl was barefoot?
Not too certain, but I'm sure I saw on a newspaper, yes, not sure it was smith who said it though.

First time heard of Praia da Luz being - a carry your child in pyjamas resort!

laugh 

Anyway can we have two men carrying a child at the same time one girl goes missing?
Even if it wasn't that busy.
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Post by tiny 25.10.13 14:19

was jane tanners sighting added to the sticker book cover AFTER Gerry had been seen by the Smith Family
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Post by Tony Bennett 25.10.13 14:21

Sockpuppet wrote:
Tony Bennett wrote:
Sockpuppet wrote:The Smith sighting was at 9.55pm - 10.00pm.

The first GNR patrol car arrived at 11.00pm - 11.05pm.

That's at least an hour in which to discuss the Smith sighting and write timelines.

How is this impossible?
Intriguing.

Please explain how it is physically possible for Martin Smith to communicate his sighting to Jane Tanner before 11.00pmon 3 May 2007.

(Especially given that he waited several days and was back home in Drogheda before picking up the 'phone and dialling Portimao 1212).

Where is this likely to have happened?
Who said that Martin Smith communicated with Jane Tanner?  I haven't.  You're putting words in my mouth.

The person that Martin Smith and family saw POSSIBLY returned to apartment 5A and told Jane Tanner.

That is physically POSSIBLE, even if the person walked stupidly slowly all the way.

I believe we have covered possibility, haven't we?
I must admit that my poor old brain is struggling with this.

So, a man wearing a dark jacket and light trousers, and who definitely didn't look like a tourist, and who was carrying a young blonde girl back to..well...somewhere, and after placing her, er, somewhere, 'returned' for some reason to Apartment G5A and then spoke to Jane Tanner?

Before I go any further, I want to check if I've got that bit right.

If I'm on the right lines, we then have to explain why Jane Tanner then described the man she saw in exactly the same terms given by Martin Smith to the PJ three weeks or more later.

I think Option 3 in the poll makes a lot more sense than that.

But, hey, explain a bit more and, if I'm convinced that what you say is a POSSIBILITY, I will include it in the poll.

____________________

Dr Martin Roberts: "The evidence is that these are the pjyamas Madeleine wore on holiday in Praia da Luz. They were photographed and the photo handed to a press agency, who released it on 8 May, as the search for Madeleine continued. The McCanns held up these same pyjamas at two press conferences on 5 & 7June 2007. How could Madeleine have been abducted?"

Amelie McCann (aged 2): "Maddie's jammies!".  

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Post by Tony Bennett 25.10.13 14:27

tiny wrote:was jane tanners sighting added to the sticker book cover AFTER Gerry had been seen by the Smith Family
tiny, that's IF there was any such sighting, of course.

Let's just say for now that there really was a bloke seen by the Smiths at 10.00pm.

Who says it was Gerry McCann, for starters?

ANSWER: A bloke who did nothing about this alleged sighting until days later when he was back in Ireland.

A bloke who more than three weeks after the event says: 'Well, I didn't see his face and it was dark - I'd never be able to recognise him again if I saw him'.

A bloke who FOUR MONTHS LATER says, on watching a TV bulletin 'I'm at least 60% sure I saw Gerry McCann. I don't need anything else to convince me. It's the way he's carrying his child - and the way he has his head down.

?

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Dr Martin Roberts: "The evidence is that these are the pjyamas Madeleine wore on holiday in Praia da Luz. They were photographed and the photo handed to a press agency, who released it on 8 May, as the search for Madeleine continued. The McCanns held up these same pyjamas at two press conferences on 5 & 7June 2007. How could Madeleine have been abducted?"

Amelie McCann (aged 2): "Maddie's jammies!".  

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Post by Sockpuppet 25.10.13 14:28

Tony Bennett wrote:
Sockpuppet wrote:
Tony Bennett wrote:
Sockpuppet wrote:The Smith sighting was at 9.55pm - 10.00pm.

The first GNR patrol car arrived at 11.00pm - 11.05pm.

That's at least an hour in which to discuss the Smith sighting and write timelines.

How is this impossible?
Intriguing.

Please explain how it is physically possible for Martin Smith to communicate his sighting to Jane Tanner before 11.00pmon 3 May 2007.

(Especially given that he waited several days and was back home in Drogheda before picking up the 'phone and dialling Portimao 1212).

Where is this likely to have happened?
Who said that Martin Smith communicated with Jane Tanner?  I haven't.  You're putting words in my mouth.

The person that Martin Smith and family saw POSSIBLY returned to apartment 5A and told Jane Tanner.

That is physically POSSIBLE, even if the person walked stupidly slowly all the way.

I believe we have covered possibility, haven't we?
I must admit that my poor old brain is struggling with this.

So, a man wearing a dark jacket and light trousers, and who definitely didn't look like a tourist, and who was carrying a young blonde girl back to..well...somewhere, and after placing her, er, somewhere, 'returned' for some reason to Apartment G5A and then spoke to Jane Tanner?

Before I go any further, I want to check if I've got that bit right.

If I'm on the right lines, we then have to explain why Jane Tanner then described the man she saw in exactly the same terms given by Martin Smith to the PJ three weeks or more later.

I think Option 3 in the poll makes a lot more sense than that.

But, hey, explain a bit more and, if I'm convinced that what you say is a POSSIBILITY, I will include it in the poll.
Hey, leave it as it is.  If disagreeing with you happens to equal impossibility, that's fine by me.

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Post by Tony Bennett 25.10.13 14:31

Sockpuppet wrote:Hey, leave it as it is.  If disagreeing with you happens to equal impossibility, that's fine by me.
No, no, no. I don't want to leave it as it is.

I don't want to be accused of running an unfair poll.

You can disagree - and put forward a viable fourth option.

It's just that I've not seen it yet.

Please tell us more about how news of the Smithman sighting got to Jane Tanner so quickly (but not to the PJ until 23 days later).

____________________

Dr Martin Roberts: "The evidence is that these are the pjyamas Madeleine wore on holiday in Praia da Luz. They were photographed and the photo handed to a press agency, who released it on 8 May, as the search for Madeleine continued. The McCanns held up these same pyjamas at two press conferences on 5 & 7June 2007. How could Madeleine have been abducted?"

Amelie McCann (aged 2): "Maddie's jammies!".  

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Post by Woofer 25.10.13 14:32

candyfloss wrote:
Tony Bennett wrote:
Sockpuppet wrote:The Smith sighting was at 9.55pm - 10.00pm.

The first GNR patrol car arrived at 11.00pm - 11.05pm.

That's at least an hour in which to discuss the Smith sighting and write timelines.

How is this impossible?
Intriguing.

Please explain how it is physically possible for Martin Smith to communicate his sighting to Jane Tanner before 11.00pmon 3 May 2007.

(Especially given that he waited several days and was back home in Drogheda before picking up the 'phone and dialling Portimao 1212).

Where is this likely to have happened?
Tony, he wouldn't need to communicate anything...........
Agreed.  GM gets back, says `I was seen`, so JT just describes a man similar to GM but going in the opposite direction. And brings the time forward 45 mins.
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Post by Sockpuppet 25.10.13 14:34

Tony Bennett wrote:
Sockpuppet wrote:Hey, leave it as it is.  If disagreeing with you happens to equal impossibility, that's fine by me.
No, no, no. I don't want to leave it as it is.

I don't want to be accused of running an unfair poll.

You can disagree - and put forward a viable fourth option.

It's just that I've not seen it yet.

Please tell us more about how news of the Smithman sighting got to Jane Tanner so quickly (but not to the PJ until 23 days later).  
I've already put forward a viable fourth option.  But hey, it's your poll.

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Post by tiny 25.10.13 14:35

Tony Bennett wrote:
tiny wrote:was jane tanners sighting added to the sticker book cover AFTER Gerry had been seen by the Smith Family
tiny, that's IF there was any such sighting, of course.

Let's just say for now that there really was a bloke seen by the Smiths at 10.00pm.

Who says it was Gerry McCann, for starters?

ANSWER: A bloke who did nothing about this alleged sighting until days later when he was back in Ireland.

A bloke who more than three weeks after the event says: 'Well, I didn't see his face and it was dark - I'd never be able to recognise him again if I saw him'.

A bloke who FOUR MONTHS LATER says, on watching a TV bulletin 'I'm at least 60% sure I saw Gerry McCann. I don't need anything else to convince me. It's the way he's carrying his child - and the way he has his head down.

?
Tony I don't know where you are going with this but its plain you think Robert Murat is being covered up for,so I will leave you too it.
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Post by Tony Bennett 25.10.13 14:37

candyfloss wrote: 8. She was being held on the man’s left side

Both gave different accounts re this.  Tanners was lying in his arms on front of his chest.  Smith said she was being carried over the shoulder.

Did Smith say the girl was barefoot?
ANSWERS - verbatim - from an impeccable source, pages 370-372 of 'madeleine' by Dr Kate McCann.

Tannerman: "Barefoot, no blanket or covering"

Smithman: "Witness unsure (family members say child was barefoot), no blanket or covering"

Tannerman: "Carrying child across arms at front of chest; child's head to the left of man's chest"

Smithman: "Carrying child over arms with child's head towards left shoulder"

____________________

Dr Martin Roberts: "The evidence is that these are the pjyamas Madeleine wore on holiday in Praia da Luz. They were photographed and the photo handed to a press agency, who released it on 8 May, as the search for Madeleine continued. The McCanns held up these same pyjamas at two press conferences on 5 & 7June 2007. How could Madeleine have been abducted?"

Amelie McCann (aged 2): "Maddie's jammies!".  

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Post by Tony Bennett 25.10.13 14:41

tiny wrote:Tony I don't know where you are going with this but its plain you think Robert Murat is being covered up for,so I will leave you too it.
I am going exactly where I say I am going and no further.

And that is, what is the cause of Jane Tanner and Martin Smith describing virtually the same man wearing virtually the same clothing carrying virtually the same young blonde female child?

I think there are three main options - but you and anyone else is able to suggest other plausible alternatives to those three options.

As yet, no viable fourth option has appeared.

For the purposes of this thread, Murat doesn't come into it at all.

____________________

Dr Martin Roberts: "The evidence is that these are the pjyamas Madeleine wore on holiday in Praia da Luz. They were photographed and the photo handed to a press agency, who released it on 8 May, as the search for Madeleine continued. The McCanns held up these same pyjamas at two press conferences on 5 & 7June 2007. How could Madeleine have been abducted?"

Amelie McCann (aged 2): "Maddie's jammies!".  

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Post by Sockpuppet 25.10.13 14:46

The Smith-man poll had a wide range of options.  Nobody had to prove their entire theory just so that an option could be added.  That was a fair poll.

You could of course just add the option whether you think it possible or not.

My interest has waned now, so I'll make my exit with my own little poll:

Is the poll below fair?

a) Yes
b) Terry's Chocolate orange
c) 1984
d) Other (what?)

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Post by johara 25.10.13 14:59

Woofer wrote:
candyfloss wrote:
Tony Bennett wrote:
Sockpuppet wrote:The Smith sighting was at 9.55pm - 10.00pm.

The first GNR patrol car arrived at 11.00pm - 11.05pm.

That's at least an hour in which to discuss the Smith sighting and write timelines.

How is this impossible?
Intriguing.

Please explain how it is physically possible for Martin Smith to communicate his sighting to Jane Tanner before 11.00pmon 3 May 2007.

(Especially given that he waited several days and was back home in Drogheda before picking up the 'phone and dialling Portimao 1212).

Where is this likely to have happened?
Tony, he wouldn't need to communicate anything...........
Agreed.  GM gets back, says `I was seen`, so JT just describes a man similar to GM but going in the opposite direction. And brings the time forward 45 mins.



But that would mean SY have invented creche man and if Smithman was GM why would they do that?hope the Pj can Maker some sense out of allego this
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Post by Woofer 25.10.13 15:04

johara wrote:
Woofer wrote:
candyfloss wrote:
Tony Bennett wrote:
Sockpuppet wrote:The Smith sighting was at 9.55pm - 10.00pm.

The first GNR patrol car arrived at 11.00pm - 11.05pm.

That's at least an hour in which to discuss the Smith sighting and write timelines.

How is this impossible?
Intriguing.

Please explain how it is physically possible for Martin Smith to communicate his sighting to Jane Tanner before 11.00pmon 3 May 2007.

(Especially given that he waited several days and was back home in Drogheda before picking up the 'phone and dialling Portimao 1212).

Where is this likely to have happened?
Tony, he wouldn't need to communicate anything...........
Agreed.  GM gets back, says `I was seen`, so JT just describes a man similar to GM but going in the opposite direction. And brings the time forward 45 mins.



But that would mean SY have invented creche man and if Smithman was GM why would they do that?hope the Pj can Maker some sense out of allego this
IMO SY have invented Crecheman to clear JT. SY`s story of crecheman being found after 6 years is ridiculous.
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Post by Nereid 25.10.13 15:10

Tony Bennett wrote:
tiny wrote:Tony I don't know where you are going with this but its plain you think Robert Murat is being covered up for,so I will leave you too it.
I am going exactly where I say I am going and no further.

And that is, what is the cause of Jane Tanner and Martin Smith describing virtually the same man wearing virtually the same clothing carrying virtually the same young blonde female child?

I think there are three main options - but you and anyone else is able to suggest other plausible alternatives to those three options.

As yet, no viable fourth option has appeared.

For the purposes of this thread, Murat doesn't come into it at all.
What if Smithman was another male member of the Tapas7.

Not O'Brien as he is very tall. So remains Oldfield. His check was at 9.30. He saw the twins, but not Madeleine.

What if he carried Madeleine (or other child in case of decoy) to wherever he went to do whatever he did. He returned to the Ocean Club and told the group he had been seen by a group of holiday makers. Hence Tanner inventing Tannerman.

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SMITHMAN 2 - What can account for the 17 remarkable similarities between Tannerman and Smithman?  - Page 2 Empty Re: SMITHMAN 2 - What can account for the 17 remarkable similarities between Tannerman and Smithman?

Post by thetruthbeknown 25.10.13 15:19

Seek truth wrote:
candyfloss wrote: 8. She was being held on the man’s left side


Both gave different accounts re this.  Tanners was lying in his arms on front of his chest.  Smith said she was being carried over the shoulder.

Did Smith say the girl was barefoot?
Not too certain, but I'm sure I saw on a newspaper, yes, not sure it was smith who said it though.

First time heard of Praia da Luz being - a carry your child in pyjamas resort!

laugh 

Anyway can we have two men carrying a child at the same time one girl goes missing?
Even if it wasn't that busy.
As ive said in other threads...ive never been to PDL, but other Warner resorts, and they have an evening creche (free and included in price for me) Only ever used it on last night of the holiday (we actually enjoyed having our children with us on holiday lol) When we had a last night meal for 'us'..and yes if you wished you could either take your children in pjs or take a changing bag, or just leave them in normal clothes (which we did with our eldest). It started at 7.30pm and you had to collect by 11.30pm, im thinking maybe the Tapas lot were intending 'later' nights maybe?? As to not using that facility?
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Post by johara 25.10.13 15:30

Woofer wrote:
johara wrote:
Woofer wrote:
candyfloss wrote:
Tony Bennett wrote:
Sockpuppet wrote:The Smith sighting was at 9.55pm - 10.00pm.

The first GNR patrol car arrived at 11.00pm - 11.05pm.

That's at least an hour in which to discuss the Smith sighting and write timelines.

How is this impossible?
Intriguing.

Please explain how it is physically possible for Martin Smith to communicate his sighting to Jane Tanner before 11.00pmon 3 May 2007.

(Especially given that he waited several days and was back home in Drogheda before picking up the 'phone and dialling Portimao 1212).

Where is this likely to have happened?
Tony, he wouldn't need to communicate anything...........
Agreed.  GM gets back, says `I was seen`, so JT just describes a man similar to GM but going in the opposite direction. And brings the time forward 45 mins.



But that would mean SY have invented creche man and if Smithman was GM why would they do that?hope the Pj can Maker some sense out of allego this
IMO SY have invented Crecheman to clear JT. SY`s story of crecheman being found after 6 years is ridiculous.
So that would mean GM runs back to 5a they invent tannerman now SY invents crecheman which risks incrimnating GM.
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Post by Guest 25.10.13 15:42

To help the discussion as to why Mr. Smith would have mentioned Smithman was not a tourist. He was asked a question:

Smith Statement May 26, 2007 in Portimao, Portugal

Urged, he states that the individual did not appear to be a tourist. He cannot explain this further. It was simply his perception given the individual's clothing.

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MARTIN_SMITH.htm

And to help the discussion as to WHEN Mr. Smith contacted the police [in Ireland] and how he mentioned it was not Murat.

Summary from “A Verdade da Mentira” bij Gonçalo Amaral

-  Back in Ireland, the Smiths watch the news and learn of Jane's statement and the suspicions falling upon Murat.

- The father contacts the Irish police. He tells his story. The man he saw was NOT Murat. He knows Murat and it was not him.

- The father is almost certain that the girl he saw was Madeleine.

And then:
- The Smiths are secretly brought back to Portugal. On Saturday, 26 May, in Portimão, Smith and his two children are interviewed.

http://www.mccannfiles.com/id162.html
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Post by Guest 25.10.13 15:45

Châtelaine wrote:To help the discussion as to why Mr. Smith would have mentioned Smithman was not a tourist. He was asked a question:

Smith Statement May 26, 2007 in Portimao, Portugal

Urged, he states that the individual did not appear to be a tourist. He cannot explain this further. It was simply his perception given the individual's clothing.

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MARTIN_SMITH.htm

And to help the discussion as to WHEN Mr. Smith contacted the police [in Ireland] and how he mentioned it was not Murat.

Summary from “A Verdade da Mentira” bij Gonçalo Amaral

-  Back in Ireland, the Smiths watch the news and learn of Jane's statement and the suspicions falling upon Murat.

- The father contacts the Irish police. He tells his story. The man he saw was NOT Murat. He knows Murat and it was not him.

- The father is almost certain that the girl he saw was Madeleine.

And then:
- The Smiths are secretly brought back to Portugal. On Saturday, 26 May, in Portimão, Smith and his two children are interviewed.

http://www.mccannfiles.com/id162.html
Thanks Chatelaine, so it looks as if he was asked the question if the man looked like a tourist.
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Post by thetruthbeknown 25.10.13 16:27

candyfloss wrote:
Châtelaine wrote:To help the discussion as to why Mr. Smith would have mentioned Smithman was not a tourist. He was asked a question:

Smith Statement May 26, 2007 in Portimao, Portugal

Urged, he states that the individual did not appear to be a tourist. He cannot explain this further. It was simply his perception given the individual's clothing.

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MARTIN_SMITH.htm

And to help the discussion as to WHEN Mr. Smith contacted the police [in Ireland] and how he mentioned it was not Murat.

Summary from “A Verdade da Mentira” bij Gonçalo Amaral

-  Back in Ireland, the Smiths watch the news and learn of Jane's statement and the suspicions falling upon Murat.

- The father contacts the Irish police. He tells his story. The man he saw was NOT Murat. He knows Murat and it was not him.

- The father is almost certain that the girl he saw was Madeleine.

And then:
- The Smiths are secretly brought back to Portugal. On Saturday, 26 May, in Portimão, Smith and his two children are interviewed.

http://www.mccannfiles.com/id162.html
Thanks Chatelaine, so it looks as if he was asked the question if the man looked like a tourist.
Is there a tanscript?? Ive seen others online, but not one for the smiths??...You are insinuation the police almost 'fed' information to obtain answers...this would not be usual..it would be seen as the witness being 'influenced' or 'coerced'...usually the only prompting would be the showing of an ID photo..and certainly no names mentioned smilie
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