The Complete Mystery of Madeleine McCann™
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The Complete Mystery of Madeleine McCann™
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Post by iamfreecanigo 22.10.13 22:09

Hi everyone, hope this is the correct forum, I had been following the McCann case from the days of the daily mirror forum. By the time it had grown to the 3a forum, I was convinced the McCanns were guilty and the way the press was protecting them really made me angry, as a result I took a step back and put the case out of my mind for a few years.

I see now the case is back in the press, so I got reading all about the case again, and again in frustrated, it feels like being against the McCanns is just a way to torture yourself, it seems so evident to me that when people don't agree they did anything I get frustrated. The reality is they probably wont ever go to jail over it, jeez the british tabloids are scared to say a bad word against them. However it got me thinking, when I look at other conspiracy theorists, they always seem so sure of the evidence, they always see others who disagree as sheep and believing what the press tells them. I'm starting to worry im doing that in this case, I mean it can't be as obvious as it seems right?

To test this I went onto the Randi forums and posted in the thread about it, before I started I was told to give evidence, so I did I gave evidence from the case files, but their responses were so petty, no evidence was presented to deny anything, just excuses.

The cadaver odour
ugh, dogs can produce false positives
they only produce false positives on the mccanns stuff?
Even if they found a cadaver, not proof its maddies
So the mccanns just happened to get the dead persons apartment and hire car
the dogs are not evidence because it didn't lead to anything, its just a coincidence.

Every bit of evidence was put down as a conincidence, or you don't know how you would react in that situation. Eventually I got banned, but I realised there really is zero evidence for an abduction, none, but then I get frustrated again, I really want to see these two get brought to justice, at the very least for neglect.
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Post by Hicks 22.10.13 22:19

Well I don't know about being a conspiracy theorist. I have had three children so I know when big porkies are being told!
I only need to watch the McCann's body language during an interview to know that something doesn't quite add up. yes
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Post by iamfreecanigo 22.10.13 22:23

Hicks wrote:Well I don't know about being a conspiracy theorist. I have had three children so I know when big porkies are being told!
I only need to watch the McCann's body language during an interview to know that something doesn't quite add up. yes
Yea, I always thought used a lets try and look sad face and voice, but it just does not seem true. Gerry seems quite passive aggressive.

Saying that, I find it hard to work out how they could have disposed of the body,espically if we talk about it, using the hire car, too much media coverage at that time, to move a body.
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Post by Hicks 22.10.13 23:00

iamfreecanigo, I could easily believe that M was abducted by a couple known to the McCann's, there is so much that points to this, however the dogs are the stumbling block. Are these dogs really 100%reliable? Thinking of Tia Sharp, the dogs used in that case did not detect the smell of death. Would it possible that the McCann's did actually transfer the scent of death somehow from the UK? 

It is those strange actions that makes me wonder whether they do know exactly where M is and who she might be with, like the ...'they've taken her'......F******g  b******ds have taken her.......GM laughing on the balcony a few days after the event ......not searching for her.....telling Yvonne Martin that 'a couple had taken M'... those mysterious deleted phone calls......Swansea and so on.
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Post by Woofer 22.10.13 23:27

Hicks wrote:iamfreecanigo, I could easily believe that M was abducted by a couple known to the McCann's, there is so much that points to this, however the dogs are the stumbling block. Are these dogs really 100%reliable? Thinking of Tia Sharp, the dogs used in that case did not detect the smell of death. Would it possible that the McCann's did actually transfer the scent of death somehow from the UK? 

It is those strange actions that makes me wonder whether they do know exactly where M is and who she might be with, like the ...'they've taken her'......F******g  b******ds have taken her.......GM laughing on the balcony a few days after the event ......not searching for her.....telling Yvonne Martin that 'a couple had taken M'... those mysterious deleted phone calls......Swansea and so on.
I believe they did Hicks. 

" The first ‘brief examination’ of the house was undertaken by local officers on August 3, the day Tia was reported missing.

The second, a more thorough check, was carried out the next day by two sergeants and two PCs.

Among them was Sgt Keith Lyons who told the jury that Hazell helped him, providing a chair and telling him - chillingly - that he ‘always’ used it to access the loft.

Sgt Lyons spent five minutes searching with his torch in the unlit loft.

He said: ‘My legs were dangling down. ‘I know I’m clumsy and I was concerned I was going to go through the roof.

‘I was surprised how clear it was. I expected there to be much more junk.

‘I was searching for a missing girl and from what I could see the loft seemed very clear. I thought ‘she is not hiding in here.’

In the early hours of the following morning a specialist team, comprised of a sergeant and five PCs, carried out a third search.

PC Steven Jeffries, one of the officers involved, said: ‘I have never searched a loft before and I didn’t want to cause any damage.’

The officers spent 25 minutes searching, including moving black bags around that the team believed did not contain anything significant.

On a fourth search of the house on August 8 a specially trained dog also signalled towards the ceiling under the loft.
But officers decided it was not necessary to check again as it had been searched before and the animal was too big to put in the loft safely.

It took another two days, until officers noticed a stench in rooms at the top of the house, for Tia to be found.

A so-called ‘cadaver dog’, trained to detect the smell of decomposition, indicated that it was coming from the loft.

This time, after removing an overfilled bin bag, officers found Tia wrapped in a ‘body shaped package’ within three feet of the hatch."

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Post by galena 23.10.13 7:55

IMO people who are just trying to solve the mystery in a normal way  are armchair sleuths, people who think there is a vast government conspiracy behind it are indeed conspiracy theorists.
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Post by Hicks 23.10.13 10:30

Woofer wrote:
Hicks wrote:iamfreecanigo, I could easily believe that M was abducted by a couple known to the McCann's, there is so much that points to this, however the dogs are the stumbling block. Are these dogs really 100%reliable? Thinking of Tia Sharp, the dogs used in that case did not detect the smell of death. Would it possible that the McCann's did actually transfer the scent of death somehow from the UK? 

It is those strange actions that makes me wonder whether they do know exactly where M is and who she might be with, like the ...'they've taken her'......F******g  b******ds have taken her.......GM laughing on the balcony a few days after the event ......not searching for her.....telling Yvonne Martin that 'a couple had taken M'... those mysterious deleted phone calls......Swansea and so on.
I believe they did Hicks. 

" The first ‘brief examination’ of the house was undertaken by local officers on August 3, the day Tia was reported missing.

The second, a more thorough check, was carried out the next day by two sergeants and two PCs.

Among them was Sgt Keith Lyons who told the jury that Hazell helped him, providing a chair and telling him - chillingly - that he ‘always’ used it to access the loft.

Sgt Lyons spent five minutes searching with his torch in the unlit loft.

He said: ‘My legs were dangling down. ‘I know I’m clumsy and I was concerned I was going to go through the roof.

‘I was surprised how clear it was. I expected there to be much more junk.

‘I was searching for a missing girl and from what I could see the loft seemed very clear. I thought ‘she is not hiding in here.’

In the early hours of the following morning a specialist team, comprised of a sergeant and five PCs, carried out a third search.

PC Steven Jeffries, one of the officers involved, said: ‘I have never searched a loft before and I didn’t want to cause any damage.’

The officers spent 25 minutes searching, including moving black bags around that the team believed did not contain anything significant.

On a fourth search of the house on August 8 a specially trained dog also signalled towards the ceiling under the loft.
But officers decided it was not necessary to check again as it had been searched before and the animal was too big to put in the loft safely.

It took another two days, until officers noticed a stench in rooms at the top of the house, for Tia to be found.

A so-called ‘cadaver dog’, trained to detect the smell of decomposition, indicated that it was coming from the loft.

This time, after removing an overfilled bin bag, officers found Tia wrapped in a ‘body shaped package’ within three feet of the hatch."

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Woofer....I stand corrected. The dogs rock!thumbsup
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Post by Ayniia 23.10.13 12:33

galena wrote:IMO people who are just trying to solve the mystery in a normal way  are armchair sleuths, people who think there is a vast government conspiracy behind it are indeed conspiracy theorists.
I am a conspiracy theorist and I have no problem admitting it. I firmly believe "conspiracies " way too far fetched to most people.
This case is not a conspiracy. It's an unsolved case. With too many loose ends, as GM would say, confusion is good...
Don't ever let other people's ideas cloud your own. You are free to believe whatever you feel like it!

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Words from an ExPat Algarve resident
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Post by galena 23.10.13 12:54

Ayniia wrote:
galena wrote:IMO people who are just trying to solve the mystery in a normal way  are armchair sleuths, people who think there is a vast government conspiracy behind it are indeed conspiracy theorists.
I am a conspiracy theorist and I have no problem admitting it. I firmly believe "conspiracies " way too far fetched to most people.
This case is not a conspiracy. It's an unsolved case. With too many loose ends, as GM would say, confusion is good...
Don't ever let other people's ideas cloud your own. You are free to believe whatever you feel like it!
Good for you!  I however will continue to define myself as an amateur sleuth!
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Post by Ayniia 23.10.13 13:27

galena wrote:
Ayniia wrote:
galena wrote:IMO people who are just trying to solve the mystery in a normal way  are armchair sleuths, people who think there is a vast government conspiracy behind it are indeed conspiracy theorists.
I am a conspiracy theorist and I have no problem admitting it. I firmly believe "conspiracies " way too far fetched to most people.
This case is not a conspiracy. It's an unsolved case. With too many loose ends, as GM would say, confusion is good...
Don't ever let other people's ideas cloud your own. You are free to believe whatever you feel like it!
Good for you!  I however will continue to define myself as an amateur sleuth!
Good for you too,
Just to be clear, regarding this case I define myself as someone who just wants justice for Madeleine, whatever that may be.

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Words from an ExPat Algarve resident
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Post by Curioser 23.10.13 23:02

The thing about conspiracy theorists is that sometimes there is a conspiracy. If there weren't theorists willing to look wacky they would never come to light. 

O/T 
That said I believe 9/11 was organised by Khalid Sheikh Mohammed and sanctioned by Osama bin Laden. Actually there is a similarity here it occurs to me. This horrible thing happened and the people most affected made hay. Anyway. Sorry. Way off topic.

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Post by ultimaThule 23.10.13 23:41

Woofer wrote:
Hicks wrote:iamfreecanigo, I could easily believe that M was abducted by a couple known to the McCann's, there is so much that points to this, however the dogs are the stumbling block. Are these dogs really 100%reliable? Thinking of Tia Sharp, the dogs used in that case did not detect the smell of death. Would it possible that the McCann's did actually transfer the scent of death somehow from the UK? 

It is those strange actions that makes me wonder whether they do know exactly where M is and who she might be with, like the ...'they've taken her'......F******g  b******ds have taken her.......GM laughing on the balcony a few days after the event ......not searching for her.....telling Yvonne Martin that 'a couple had taken M'... those mysterious deleted phone calls......Swansea and so on.
I believe they did Hicks. 

" The first ‘brief examination’ of the house was undertaken by local officers on August 3, the day Tia was reported missing.

The second, a more thorough check, was carried out the next day by two sergeants and two PCs.

Among them was Sgt Keith Lyons who told the jury that Hazell helped him, providing a chair and telling him - chillingly - that he ‘always’ used it to access the loft.

Sgt Lyons spent five minutes searching with his torch in the unlit loft.

He said: ‘My legs were dangling down. ‘I know I’m clumsy and I was concerned I was going to go through the roof.

‘I was surprised how clear it was. I expected there to be much more junk.

‘I was searching for a missing girl and from what I could see the loft seemed very clear. I thought ‘she is not hiding in here.’

In the early hours of the following morning a specialist team, comprised of a sergeant and five PCs, carried out a third search.

PC Steven Jeffries, one of the officers involved, said: ‘I have never searched a loft before and I didn’t want to cause any damage.’

The officers spent 25 minutes searching, including moving black bags around that the team believed did not contain anything significant.

On a fourth search of the house on August 8 a specially trained dog also signalled towards the ceiling under the loft.
But officers decided it was not necessary to check again as it had been searched before and the animal was too big to put in the loft safely.

It took another two days, until officers noticed a stench in rooms at the top of the house, for Tia to be found.

A so-called ‘cadaver dog’, trained to detect the smell of decomposition, indicated that it was coming from the loft.

This time, after removing an overfilled bin bag, officers found Tia wrapped in a ‘body shaped package’ within three feet of the hatch."

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It is as Woofer said.  The dogs alerted but the officers assigned to Tia Sharp's case were far from alert.

A catalogue of shocking blunders by the Met's finest led to the cause of death failing to be established and this could have compromised the prosecution.
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Post by Okeydokey 23.10.13 23:59

iamfreecanigo wrote:
Hicks wrote:Well I don't know about being a conspiracy theorist. I have had three children so I know when big porkies are being told!
I only need to watch the McCann's body language during an interview to know that something doesn't quite add up. yes
Yea, I always thought used a lets try and look sad face and voice, but it just does not seem true. Gerry seems quite passive aggressive.

Saying that, I find it hard to work out how they could have disposed of the body,espically if we talk about it, using the hire car, too much media coverage at that time, to move a body.
I believe some people have said the car was used to dispose of clothes, textiles or other material. So not all theorists require you to believe in a body being transported.
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Post by Okeydokey 24.10.13 0:07

iamfreecanigo wrote:Hi everyone, hope this is the correct forum, I had been following the McCann case from the days of the daily mirror forum. By the time it had grown to the 3a forum, I was convinced the McCanns were guilty and the way the press was protecting them really made me angry, as a result I took a step back and put the case out of my mind for a few years.

I see now the case is back in the press, so I got reading all about the case again, and again in frustrated, it feels like being against the McCanns is just a way to torture yourself, it seems so evident to me that when people don't agree they did anything I get frustrated. The reality is they probably wont ever go to jail over it, jeez the british tabloids are scared to say a bad word against them. However it got me thinking, when I look at other conspiracy theorists, they always seem so sure of the evidence, they always see others who disagree as sheep and believing what the press tells them. I'm starting to worry im doing that in this case, I mean it can't be as obvious as it seems right?

To test this I went onto the Randi forums and posted in the thread about it, before I started I was told to give evidence, so I did I gave evidence from the case files, but their responses were so petty, no evidence was presented to deny anything, just excuses.

The cadaver odour
ugh, dogs can produce false positives
they only produce false positives on the mccanns stuff?
Even if they found a cadaver, not proof its maddies
So the mccanns just happened to get the dead persons apartment and hire car
the dogs are not evidence because it didn't lead to anything, its just a coincidence.

Every bit of evidence was put down as a conincidence, or you don't know how you would react in that situation. Eventually I got banned, but I realised there really is zero evidence for an abduction, none, but then I get frustrated again, I really want to see these two get brought to justice, at the very least for neglect.
The Randi Forum are like that!  They don't seem to understand statistics.  The McCann version requires us to believe in a lot of unlikely events.  Abduction of a tourist's child from Portugal is as far as I know unique. That's OK...but then you have to believe a lot of other unlikely things. In what proportion of child homicide cases where police teams suspect parental wrongdoing do they turn out to be wrong? Maybe it's 5% say.  You have to go through all these events and then combine them statistically - how likely is it that such unlikely events co-exist in one case?
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Post by Cerinthe 24.10.13 0:30

Criminal conspiracies do exist.  There are laws against them because legislators recognise their existence.  In the context of an investigation into a conspiracy to cover up a crime the police could be called conspiracy theorists, following the logic of the people making that particular accusation.

What they dismissed on the Randi forum as "coincidence" could also be described as various types of evidence including circumstantial or a lead in the case of the dogs.  Circumstantial evidence is often used to make prosecution cases. 

So no I don't think I"m a conspiracy theorist.  I just want to know what the dogs alerted to, and can recognise that the McCanns are lying a lot of the time.
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Post by stumo 24.10.13 1:30

In this case i don't think there's a solid theory to conspire against.

Unlike the Titanic/Olympic conspiracy, 9/11, the assination of JFK, Roswell, Paul McCartney died in 1966, HAARP.
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Post by columbostogeys 24.10.13 6:43

galena wrote:
Ayniia wrote:
galena wrote:IMO people who are just trying to solve the mystery in a normal way  are armchair sleuths, people who think there is a vast government conspiracy behind it are indeed conspiracy theorists.
I am a conspiracy theorist and I have no problem admitting it. I firmly believe "conspiracies " way too far fetched to most people.
This case is not a conspiracy. It's an unsolved case. With too many loose ends, as GM would say, confusion is good...
Don't ever let other people's ideas cloud your own. You are free to believe whatever you feel like it!
Good for you!  I however will continue to define myself as an amateur sleuth!
I think i am an amateur sleuth lol. I knew straight away that Phillpott was lying about the fire, and the mother of the young lass who went missing I felt straight away she was lying (sorry brain dead this morning cant remember her name), and others too.

I think there is deception with the McCanns but not sure what it is.

I deal with LOGICS. Logically never believed Jane Tanner, why would an abductor take a child through the town, think the Smith sighting logically not GM, why would he do that, logically the abductor if one would not use the window.

I believe also that GM has friends in high places and that is why anything on the Internet more or less in the last 7 years has been zapped if it criticised them......does that make me a conspiracy theorist perhaps, but there is something very odd about it...........

I have my theory but no one wants to hear it, as it could be about abduction.....lol...I also have a theory about how the family could have done it and why, but then thats staying with me, i dont particularly want to be zapped lol.....
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