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Anyone for scraps?

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Re: Anyone for scraps?

Post by tigger on 21.10.13 15:21

@jozi wrote:When they arrived at the scene, they entered the McCanns' apartment by the front door, and entered the living room, where there were some PJ officers as well as the McCann couple. They just talked to some colleagues from the PJ and asked for a piece of clothing that Madeleine had worn or used recently. They were given a pink/orange blanket that the child had been covered with in her bed. (Kate makes this some time later in the morning - see above. She said she doesn't know about the dogs earlier than 11.00 am!)

Thanks tigger for posting this, could this be the famous pink blanket that is missing now !!!
I bet it is. Now the blanket was on the bed in the first set of photographs But absent in the second lot. 
If we know the time these were taken, we have a possible time when it disappeared. 
After the first set of dogs were finished and before the next set started.

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sunday

Post by Guest on 21.10.13 17:15

Another thing.....


ROB Rogatory:
"And then the second point is, what did I do on Sunday, and on Sunday, erm, on one of the visits at least, erm, I went back to five ‘D’ and checked on our children, but I also went to five, erm, ‘D’ on Matt’s and I, I’m pretty sure that I needed Matt’s key to do that, so I think they were doing the same as us."

And this one (ROB)
"I think actually earlier on, and certainly from my point of view, I actually went into Kate and Gerry’s room, erm, on the Sunday and Matt’s room on the Sunday"

MO Rogatory:

 "So I felt completely icky all the day Sunday, so I think to try and avoid infecting anybody else, I didn’t do much outside the apartment and certainly in the evening I didn’t go for, erm, didn’t go for dinner with everybody else”
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Eyes

Post by Guest on 21.10.13 17:19

But mostly
Kms eye movements to certain questions on CW.
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when?

Post by dotdot on 21.10.13 18:46

COMPLETELY MY OPINION ,,, and just a general wonderment amongst the scraps, but if we , here , untrained professionals, are able to note and examine at length all of these discrepanices and inconsistencies,.....  which are impossible to ignore (surely?  we deal with facts here and there are just too many inconsistencies!- ,,,, in the T7 statements just to name ONE place where this inconsistency is found........... surely the people with the power to make any subsequent action has enough power to bring the McCanns and the T7 in for a reconstruction and further questioning...  WHY ISNT THIS HAPPENING??????  even under the guise of (for lack of a better word!) but a true need for clarification?  WHY DO THE MCCANNS AND THE T7 not want to do this reconstruction and why are questions about inconsistencies not being put to them by SY?  (well, hopefully they are...)  but i just keep thinking When????  What are we waiting for????  When will justice be served...  poor Madeleiene.x [all above just my opinion and thoughts,...]
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back to focus

Post by dotdot on 21.10.13 18:51

-- who did Kate go running with shortly after?  where she claims a dog bit at her ankles, yet the other person she was running with never mentions anything about this?

-- who was Gerry with down by the water and they had mobile phones in their hands??  what was happening there???
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Re: Anyone for scraps?

Post by ultimaThule on 21.10.13 21:53

In the absence of a body and proof of time/cause of death, it's a question of whether or when the weight of circumstantial evidence tips the scale into the probability of successful prosecution.

In this particular case there's also the question of where the accused will be tried which, presumably, is a matter which was under discussion when representatives of the CPS visited Portugal.
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Re: Anyone for scraps?

Post by Ochosi on 21.10.13 21:55

The tennis - general sporty activity and the routine aspect. I think from one statement it would seem KM played tennis twice and jogged in the same day. 
They also refer the routine to be the similar each day. Would have to be quite a routine developed if 16 lessons signed up to the day after arrival.
Not impossible of course - to be so active, just seems exhausting to me. As well as monotonous. Tennis + Tapas timetabled for the whole week. 

The printed photos on the night of the disappearance - on photographic paper, apparently not possible to print at reception as the others were. Where were they printed?

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Re: Anyone for scraps?

Post by Truthandjustice on 21.10.13 23:18

@Hicks wrote:
@Searcher wrote:Juliet - yes, and the shower curtain in the dumped bag!  How odd is that.
Just to mention here that John Geraghty (McCann's millionaire friend who lives near PDL) had a shower curtain stolen from his villa-apparently!
This is very interesting.  How do we know about the shower curtain stolen from the villa?   It ties in with a dream I had about the case (which featured a villa belonging to a very wealthy person).

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Re: Anyone for scraps?

Post by Okeydokey on 22.10.13 0:02

@dotdot wrote:COMPLETELY MY OPINION ,,, and just a general wonderment amongst the scraps, but if we , here , untrained professionals, are able to note and examine at length all of these discrepanices and inconsistencies,.....  which are impossible to ignore (surely?  we deal with facts here and there are just too many inconsistencies!- ,,,, in the T7 statements just to name ONE place where this inconsistency is found........... surely the people with the power to make any subsequent action has enough power to bring the McCanns and the T7 in for a reconstruction and further questioning...  WHY ISNT THIS HAPPENING??????  even under the guise of (for lack of a better word!) but a true need for clarification?  WHY DO THE MCCANNS AND THE T7 not want to do this reconstruction and why are questions about inconsistencies not being put to them by SY?  (well, hopefully they are...)  but i just keep thinking When????  What are we waiting for????  When will justice be served...  poor Madeleiene.x [all above just my opinion and thoughts,...]
Yes, why are these questions not put by SY - but even more, why not by journalists? Jane Hill came closest in the early days asking Kate if she was out there searching...superlong pause followed that question!

Another scrap that often occurs to me is why on earth, no well known British writers have ever picked up this story to write a book.  It's incredible! No other crime story has EVER had so much coverage in the UK media and yet there are no books by non-participants available in the UK. That really is odd, given the amount of money that could be made from a successful book (I would think you could be talking about such a book selling at least a million worldwide).  You get the feeling that writers have looked at the case and thought...hmmm...I could certainly write a book about this case...but I know if I write what I know I will get my rear end sued off me by those guys. But equally, why do none of the "gushers" - the Lorraine Kennedy types and all that lot - why don't they write some schmaltzy stuff...is it that they investigate a little and take fright?

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Re: Anyone for scraps?

Post by Okeydokey on 22.10.13 0:07

One more scrap...

I found it really odd when I read the statements that they were all denying they visited each other's apartment. IIRC none of them, apart from David Payne, admit visiting one of the other's apartments...what is that all about? It seems really strange if you are on holiday with people you won't be mixing with them, at least taking a look at their apartment...

Of course, I have no idea why that should be but I suppose someone might theorise it somehow related to forensic evidence...or absence after thorough cleaning. Was that why the police were asking the question? - because they were puzzled at the absence of evidence of visits by the others?

The alternative is that these people who dined together and played together, studiously avoided each other's apartments.

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Re: Anyone for scraps?

Post by Okeydokey on 22.10.13 0:10

dantezebu wrote:But mostly
Kms eye movements to certain questions on CW.
Well, yes...there are a thousand scraps in the interviews...the body language and the verbal slips. Incidentally they have got much better with time...keeping control of their movements and avoiding verbal slips. Now they don't try and explain...they use the politician's trick of saying "Look Sarah (or whoever) it's not about XYZ (whatever the interviewer is asking) it's about...(repeat the prepared message you want to get across)."

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Re: Anyone for scraps?

Post by dotdot on 22.10.13 0:19

@Okeydokey wrote:
@dotdot wrote:COMPLETELY MY OPINION ,,, and just a general wonderment amongst the scraps, but if we , here , untrained professionals, are able to note and examine at length all of these discrepanices and inconsistencies,.....  which are impossible to ignore (surely?  we deal with facts here and there are just too many inconsistencies!- ,,,, in the T7 statements just to name ONE place where this inconsistency is found........... surely the people with the power to make any subsequent action has enough power to bring the McCanns and the T7 in for a reconstruction and further questioning...  WHY ISNT THIS HAPPENING??????  even under the guise of (for lack of a better word!) but a true need for clarification?  WHY DO THE MCCANNS AND THE T7 not want to do this reconstruction and why are questions about inconsistencies not being put to them by SY?  (well, hopefully they are...)  but i just keep thinking When????  What are we waiting for????  When will justice be served...  poor Madeleiene.x [all above just my opinion and thoughts,...]
Yes, why are these questions not put by SY - but even more, why not by journalists? Jane Hill came closest in the early days asking Kate if she was out there searching...superlong pause followed that question!

Another scrap that often occurs to me is why on earth, no well known British writers have ever picked up this story to write a book.  It's incredible! No other crime story has EVER had so much coverage in the UK media and yet there are no books by non-participants available in the UK. That really is odd, given the amount of money that could be made from a successful book (I would think you could be talking about such a book selling at least a million worldwide).  You get the feeling that writers have looked at the case and thought...hmmm...I could certainly write a book about this case...but I know if I write what I know I will get my rear end sued off me by those guys. But equally, why do none of the "gushers" - the Lorraine Kennedy types and all that lot - why don't they write some schmaltzy stuff...is it that they investigate a little and take fright?
but.... how could KM do any searching when it was just so dark outside???..................................  (  what)

and i agree with you that it seems journalists are scared !    to me it seems that the McCanns are being protected (church & state) and this fear you describe seems to me to manifest in all of this one-sided reporting, the shoddy CW reconstruction... its all rubbish!    it has been said that they would be in jail already with the evidence they have if they were Portuguese. (or something along those lines).  When are the McCanns and the T7 going to be held accountable for these inconsistencies??  We need a British Sandra (the Portugese journalist).  Surely there are enough questions to ask that law enforcement could isolate each of the McCanns and the T7 and question them again?  I know I am repeating myself, but it is just frustrating.  what is the deal??  it isnt likely that a body is going to be recovered, imho, do they not have enough circumstancial evidence?  we seem to have unearthed enough here alone.  what more is needed???  i guess they know what they are doing, but this has been going on for far too long now !!!
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Re: Anyone for scraps?

Post by dotdot on 22.10.13 0:28

i mean, dont they have enough circumstantial evidence to 'suspect' them?  not even in a 'murder' charge (i dont believe they murdered Madeleine), but a concealment of cadaver and perverting the course of justice?  surely they have enough circumstantial evidence to suspect the McCanns and members of the T7 - why cant they call them in and force them to do a reconstruction and answer to the inconsistencies?? 

(i will stop now!  but it winds me up... and aware this is probably not the best place to vent frustration but i want to know WHY they are not even being treated as suspects?!)
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Re: Anyone for scraps?

Post by Okeydokey on 22.10.13 2:06

@dotdot wrote:i mean, dont they have enough circumstantial evidence to 'suspect' them?  not even in a 'murder' charge (i dont believe they murdered Madeleine), but a concealment of cadaver and perverting the course of justice?  surely they have enough circumstantial evidence to suspect the McCanns and members of the T7 - why cant they call them in and force them to do a reconstruction and answer to the inconsistencies?? 

(i will stop now!  but it winds me up... and aware this is probably not the best place to vent frustration but i want to know WHY they are not even being treated as suspects?!)
If you have read any of the rogatory statements I think you will be equally frustrated at the failure of UK Police officers to follow up on obvious inconsistencies or weak statements. Often the police officers seem only too willing to concur with the flimsy justifications offered by the Tapas 9. There is no teasing out of contradictions, no challenging.  Even so, despite that weak questioning, as many have observed, the rogatory statements generally read as the ramblings of inarticulate imbeciles - not well paid professionals. They are literally unbelievable in their halting hesitancy and weak reasoning.

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Re: Anyone for scraps?

Post by dotdot on 22.10.13 3:27

@Okeydokey wrote:
@dotdot wrote:i mean, dont they have enough circumstantial evidence to 'suspect' them?  not even in a 'murder' charge (i dont believe they murdered Madeleine), but a concealment of cadaver and perverting the course of justice?  surely they have enough circumstantial evidence to suspect the McCanns and members of the T7 - why cant they call them in and force them to do a reconstruction and answer to the inconsistencies?? 

(i will stop now!  but it winds me up... and aware this is probably not the best place to vent frustration but i want to know WHY they are not even being treated as suspects?!)
If you have read any of the rogatory statements I think you will be equally frustrated at the failure of UK Police officers to follow up on obvious inconsistencies or weak statements. Often the police officers seem only too willing to concur with the flimsy justifications offered by the Tapas 9. There is no teasing out of contradictions, no challenging.  Even so, despite that weak questioning, as many have observed, the rogatory statements generally read as the ramblings of inarticulate imbeciles - not well paid professionals. They are literally unbelievable in their halting hesitancy and weak reasoning.
my question is WHY?
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Re: Anyone for scraps?

Post by lj on 22.10.13 4:59

Who asked for the falling off the boat :

http://joana-morais.blogspot.com/2009/05/mccann-case-rachael-mariamma-jean_3752.html

Rachel Oldfields 2nd rogatory:
00.50.33
1578
“Following day”.
Reply
“Erm so I think we probably talked about that a bit and otherwise you know, just general, probably that the weather had been a bit better that day and (inaudible) remember when the rest of us were there, we talked about Matt falling off the boat and Russell rescuing him and you know, it was actually quite a dramatic story and we were like well you know, that will be the talk of the holiday, the story of the holiday, erm so yeah that was kind of discussed at length cos Russell felt quite a hero and er, er I think he done quite well actually to get back and rescue Matt, erm and I don’t know what else we talked about, just, no I mean nothing specific really just general chit chat”.

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Re: Anyone for scraps?

Post by lj on 22.10.13 5:06


and for those who thought that I was a bit harsh on Rachel:

her first rogatory interview:

http://joana-morais.blogspot.com/2009/05/mccann-case-rachael-mariamma-jean_6013.html

“Mmm yeah, I mean the patio doors were locked, erm yeah I didn’t really like going up there by myself, it was, like going through that car park was quite dark and there was never anyone around, it was a bit, you know made me feel a bit uneasy”.

"there were sort of lights, you press a button and they come on for a certain length of time, so you know, you put those on to get to the front door, it wasn’t pitch black but I’m not keen on the dark anyway so erm”.



“Erm well we’d go into the room, which ordinarily we wouldn’t do to be honest, erm but she seemed to have diarrhoea and kind of, I mean she’d settled quite well actually cos she’d been tired every evening, erm but every morning when she woke up, she had diarrhoea and it had gone right through her grow bag and so there’s all of this sort of horrendous smell, so in the evenings when we were checking, we’d go into the room just to see if you know, there was any sort of smell yet, erm and just to make sure she was alright, to make sure she hadn’t been sick, partly I think cos Matt had been sick, just wanted to make sure that she hadn’t been, in case it was some sort of bug”.

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Re: Anyone for scraps?

Post by plebgate on 22.10.13 8:35

I am still shocked when reading that statement lj.

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Re: Anyone for scraps?

Post by Smokeandmirrors on 22.10.13 8:41

@lj wrote:
and for those who thought that I was a bit harsh on Rachel:

her first rogatory interview:

http://joana-morais.blogspot.com/2009/05/mccann-case-rachael-mariamma-jean_6013.html

“Mmm yeah, I mean the patio doors were locked, erm yeah I didn’t really like going up there by myself, it was, like going through that car park was quite dark and there was never anyone around, it was a bit, you know made me feel a bit uneasy”.

"there were sort of lights, you press a button and they come on for a certain length of time, so you know, you put those on to get to the front door, it wasn’t pitch black but I’m not keen on the dark anyway so erm”.



“Erm well we’d go into the room, which ordinarily we wouldn’t do to be honest, erm but she seemed to have diarrhoea and kind of, I mean she’d settled quite well actually cos she’d been tired every evening, erm but every morning when she woke up, she had diarrhoea and it had gone right through her grow bag and so there’s all of this sort of horrendous smell, so in the evenings when we were checking, we’d go into the room just to see if you know, there was any sort of smell yet, erm and just to make sure she was alright, to make sure she hadn’t been sick, partly I think cos Matt had been sick, just wanted to make sure that she hadn’t been, in case it was some sort of bug”.
To treat a baby like this when they had diarrhoea or been sick is completely unforgivable. Totally disgusting in fact.

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Re: Anyone for scraps?

Post by lj on 22.10.13 14:15

@plebgate wrote:I am still shocked when reading that statement lj.
It still shocks me too, plebgate and Smokeandmirrors. That's one of the reasons why I don't believe that the neglect was made up. No one in his right mind could make that up. It is of such a breathtaking depravity, it really shows the only care they have for their children is to what yuppie brand clothing they wear, not their physical or psychological health.

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Re: Anyone for scraps?

Post by plebgate on 22.10.13 15:13

Bearing in mind the baby was only just one at the time (or was she slightly younger), it certainly does annoy me.

Imagine admitting that to the police, it is lying on file and NOTHING (that we know of) has been done about it.


No wonder so many are asking what is going on in this case.

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Dianne on the sofabed

Post by juliet on 22.10.13 16:10

Dianne Webster said she slept on a sofa bed in the Payne apartment living room. This seems very odd for a woman of her age, with the elder Payne daughter thus sleeping alone in the two bed second bedroom (the younger one iirc was in a cot in the parents' room). Why wouldn't she have shared with the little girl, rather than having to put her sofabed to rights and clear all signs of living-room occupancy each morning, in time for all the friends to come for lunch? Was she just there as a skivvy to sleep like a maid and make the sandwiches for lunch?
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loving parents

Post by juliet on 22.10.13 16:17

As for those loving parents, the Oldfields and the Tanners....JT said that her eldest had only just come out of hospital after some awful foot problem. They almost didn't come at all, iirc. I find it really impossible to believe that all these parents cared so little for their children - their illnesses, their diarrhoea, their feelings. They dismiss their tears (about going to nursery - the youngest one), or being plain miserable (the eldest one having a screaming meltdown)) as nothing to bother about. No parent is so callous, surely??
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Re: Anyone for scraps?

Post by Pennypennypenny on 22.10.13 16:41

How strange that they were all of the same mind.! They were all so callous and thoughtless about their children.

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Re: Anyone for scraps?

Post by juliet on 22.10.13 17:34

It does seem unusual to have four sets of parents so uncaring of their children. Also unusual for all four sets of parents to want to dine at the Tapas night after night. Same old menu, same old faces...they were all fairly sophisticated people and I would have thought they'd be bored silly after two nights.
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