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Post by chillyheat on 18.10.13 17:21

Im convinced now that there is no cover up. I say this because Scotland Yard has said the man Tanner spotted has come forward after 6 years. I believe that is a bluff on the police part. If it was a complete cover up then the Tanner sighting person (boogieman) would always be stated as a non finder.
In my opinion, the police are trying to separate this pact (Tapas 9) and the only way to do it is look into their eyes and agree with their statements.....For now.
Its a great ploy if the police are taking it this way. Its too much of a risk trying to cover another cover up. Scotland Yard are slowly getting to the truth.
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Post by chillyheat on 18.10.13 17:35

In other words....The police know there never was a Tannerman, but to agree will cause a panic. The problem SY has, is that there is not enough evidence for convictions nevermind arrests. Its going to take time.
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Post by russiandoll on 18.10.13 17:37

Me too.  Divide and conquer comes to mind.

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Post by chillyheat on 18.10.13 17:44

I think the Paynes are ready to crack (hence their omission from CW). The problem Davey boy has, is he does not want all his  escapades to come to the front. He cannot be guaranteed it wouldn't, because if he turnt to the Prosecution side, then the defence of the McCanns will have it brought out.
 
What we need to look at is, what are these persons involved aspiring to be. How far up the medical chain are they striving for. If they are striving for a big part in the medical area, then they will stay as silent as possible.
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Post by endgame on 18.10.13 17:53

@ChillyHeat wrote:Im convinced now that there is no cover up. I say this because Scotland Yard has said the man Tanner spotted has come forward after 6 years. I believe that is a bluff on the police part. If it was a complete cover up then the Tanner sighting person (boogieman) would always be stated as a non finder.
In my opinion, the police are trying to separate this pact (Tapas 9) and the only way to do it is look into their eyes and agree with their statements.....For now.
Its a great ploy if the police are taking it this way. Its too much of a risk trying to cover another cover up. Scotland Yard are slowly getting to the truth.
You could of course be right but the difficulty is that that there has not been the slightest evidence that this is the case. At the same  time:-

It's difficult to imagine what this super evidence is that SY have failed to unearth but will unearth at some time in the future. Phone evidence seems the only likely ground breaker.

AR has spent two and a half years talking about abduction and saying the McCanns are innocent. On the surface that suggests that that is what he believes or that is what he has been instructed to find. The idea that this is the most fantastically clever game of bluff ever devised is to me little more than whimsy.

The idea that he doesn't push harder because they might all panic doesn't make sense to me. If he thought they were all involved in a cover up he'd want them to panic wouldn't he? If he genuinely believes that this is the case, the obvious and quickest route to the truth would be a rigorous interviewing of all those involved and an actual reconstruction.

In terms of serious crime detection what on earth has he to gain by poncing around Europe acting like the McCanns PR agent? This is not how real detectives operate.
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Post by notlongnow on 18.10.13 17:59

I feel he is putting the squeeze on all of them in these cw shows.

BTW is there any good reason why 3 of them were airbrushed out of the show monday?
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Post by Woofer on 18.10.13 18:06

If he is truly on the side of justice, then hopefully the CPS ladies would have told him what was needed to sew up a prosecution. 

That`s if one can trust the CPS !

And we don`t know for sure about DP - it may have just been a stupid drunken lapse.
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Post by chillyheat on 18.10.13 18:06

@endgame wrote:
@ChillyHeat wrote:Im convinced now that there is no cover up. I say this because Scotland Yard has said the man Tanner spotted has come forward after 6 years. I believe that is a bluff on the police part. If it was a complete cover up then the Tanner sighting person (boogieman) would always be stated as a non finder.
In my opinion, the police are trying to separate this pact (Tapas 9) and the only way to do it is look into their eyes and agree with their statements.....For now.
Its a great ploy if the police are taking it this way. Its too much of a risk trying to cover another cover up. Scotland Yard are slowly getting to the truth.
You could of course be right but the difficulty is that that there has not been the slightest evidence that this is the case. At the same  time:-

It's difficult to imagine what this super evidence is that SY have failed to unearth but will unearth at some time in the future. Phone evidence seems the only likely ground breaker.

AR has spent two and a half years talking about abduction and saying the McCanns are innocent. On the surface that suggests that that is what he believes or that is what he has been instructed to find. The idea that this is the most fantastically clever game of bluff ever devised is to me little more than whimsy.

The idea that he doesn't push harder because they might all panic doesn't make sense to me. If he thought they were all involved in a cover up he'd want them to panic wouldn't he? If he genuinely believes that this is the case, the obvious and quickest route to the truth would be a rigorous interviewing of all those involved and an actual reconstruction.

In terms of serious crime detection what on earth has he to gain by poncing around Europe acting like the McCanns PR agent? This is not how real detectives operate.
Once the lie begins, it would be so difficult to know what, in the quagmire was the truth. I do understand what your saying, but after so long it would simply be a mess if SY rushed in and accused them all of an elaborate cover up. Im struggling myself to make heads or tails of it. I just simply think that SY would not have said they found Tannerman if this enquiry was to simply go on a never ending roundabout. These were all doctors, and for all we know they may have had some sort of hypnosis that convinces them that what they spotted or witnessed stands true forever in their mind....
It sounds like a cover up on their part (speaks volumes) but why would SY risk covering it up even more....They must have known thousands of sofa detectives would look into the files.
Most cover ups are rooted behind the scenes. No faces are ever known whom was involved. I find it strange that SY would go out and buy more tins of white paint.
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Post by comperedna on 18.10.13 18:09

I'm not impressed by the constant repetition by the Met of the fact that the McCanns and their Tapas friends are not 'suspects'. Of course they are not. You hardly come out with the idea officially that someone is a 'suspect' unless you have a lot of evidence to back that up, and maybe need just a bit more to charge someone - hoping to smoke out other people to give more information perhaps. What the McCanns are, and their Tapas friends are, is absolutely vital front rank WITNESSES, and they should be properly re-questioned as such by any serious cold case re-investigation. It is just not credible that the closest people of all should be left out of the picture, whilst possibly fictitious or irrelevant strangers are considered as key to the case.

Serious police inquiries do not start by excluding all possible theories except one... though they may pursue that one, de facto, to the bitter end first, to finally exclude it, and then think again and look elsewhere.
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Post by worriedmum on 18.10.13 18:12

@endgame wrote:
In terms of serious crime detection what on earth has he to gain by poncing around Europe acting like the McCanns PR agent? This is not how real detectives operate.
lol!
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Post by ProfessorPPlum on 18.10.13 18:13

At risk of repeating myself, I cannot see why - if Redwood were conducting some kind of authorised whitewash - he would have used the CW programme to focus the whole UK population's attention onto the 10pm Smith sighting (which up til that point the 'pro- McCann' media had successfully underplayed). 

Furthemore, if he was unconditionally behind them, surely he would have affirmed the McCann/T9 timeline instead of throwing it into total, nonsensical disarray?

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Post by Woofer on 18.10.13 18:15

But have you ever heard the police come out and declare `so and so are NOT suspects in this case`?  Weird thing to do I reckon - best he hadn`t said anything.

P.S. Just thought - they did with Joanna Yeates` murderer.
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Post by Daisy on 18.10.13 18:22

@Woofer wrote:If he is truly on the side of justice, then hopefully the CPS ladies would have told him what was needed to sew up a prosecution. 

That`s if one can trust the CPS !

And we don`t know for sure about DP - it may have just been a stupid drunken lapse.
What may have been a stupid drunken lapse Woofer?

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Post by ProfessorPPlum on 18.10.13 18:25

Woofer, good question. I don't know. I just know that pre-CW, the McCanns still had control of the media. Suddenly, now, post-CW they have lost the grip. The only reason these newspapers are allowing honest, critical comments is that they have suddenly lost their fear of being sued. Yes, the libel trial will be the key in this. 

I just go by the actual outcomes (not what people are saying or reporting). The actual outcome is that Tanner's abductor is no longer the abductor; a huge swathe of apathetic UK now has a view about the timeline issue and at last there is a huge upsurge in negative comments about the McCanns neglect of their children. 

That is not a whitewash  yes

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Post by endgame on 18.10.13 18:28

@ProfessorPPlum wrote:At risk of repeating myself, I cannot see why - if Redwood were conducting some kind of authorised whitewash - he would have used the CW programme to focus the whole UK population's attention onto the 10pm Smith sighting (which up til that point the 'pro- McCann' media had successfully underplayed). 

Furthemore, if he was unconditionally behind them, surely he would have affirmed the McCann/T9 timeline instead of throwing it into total, nonsensical disarray?
He cannot affirm the Tapas timeline because it is contradictory, doesn't make sense and clashes blatantly with the restaurant staff evidence.

In the same way he could not stick with Tanner and the abductor because as has endlessly been pointed out he is then stuck with proving an abduction took place within the only available 1 min 20 secs. If he knocks Bundleman out then as he himself has said the window of opportunity for building a plausible story is considerably improved. He is reported as being confident that Smithman is not GM so he is either identified as being innocent or he is unidentified and can be assumed to be the abductor for ever and ever.

I think you have to also note the way in which Crimewatch simply ignored any area where the glaring contradictions and lies could be exposed.

This to me seems as rational an explanation as any belief that AR is as cunning as a Professor of Cunning at Oxford University.
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Post by SixMillionQuid on 18.10.13 18:35

Sorry but as far as Operation Grange is concerned the McCanns are not suspects.
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Post by Cheshire Cat on 18.10.13 19:31

@SixMillionQuid wrote:Sorry but as far as Operation Grange is concerned the McCanns are not suspects.
Pat Browns latest Tweet:

A good detective like Amaral draws conclusions based on physical & behavioral evidence. Redwood is creating theories based on 0. #McCann
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Post by tigger on 18.10.13 19:37

comperedna5 wrote:I'm not impressed by the constant repetition by the Met of the fact that the McCanns and their Tapas friends are not 'suspects'. Of course they are not. You hardly come out with the idea officially that someone is a 'suspect' unless you have a lot of evidence to back that up, and maybe need just a bit more to charge someone - hoping to smoke out other people to give more information perhaps. What the McCanns are, and their Tapas friends are, is absolutely vital front rank WITNESSES, and they should be properly re-questioned as such by any serious cold case re-investigation. It is just not credible that the closest people of all should be left out of the picture, whilst possibly fictitious or irrelevant strangers are considered as key to the case.

Serious police inquiries do not start by excluding all possible theories except one... though they may pursue that one, de facto, to the bitter end first, to finally exclude it, and then think again and look elsewhere.
thumbsup       The remit is abduction, says it all really.....

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Post by KenzieWenzie on 18.10.13 19:46

@ChillyHeat wrote:I think the Paynes are ready to crack (hence their omission from CW). The problem Davey boy has, is he does not want all his  escapades to come to the front. He cannot be guaranteed it wouldn't, because if he turnt to the Prosecution side, then the defence of the McCanns will have it brought out.
 
What we need to look at is, what are these persons involved aspiring to be. How far up the medical chain are they striving for. If they are striving for a big part in the medical area, then they will stay as silent as possible.
Sorry but I don't the Payne incident ever happened, those three thought Maddie was abducted for a while in my opinion, the accusiations were made up to keep him in line. I really don't think peodophillia has anything to do with this case, I think David Payne is another innocent victim who broke away a while ago and needed to be brought in again. All my own opinion, and has been for a while
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Post by Guest on 18.10.13 19:56

Although the MCS are not suspects it doesn't mean they are not one of the "persons of interest", SY are looking at.
And I believe Redwood really does want to find Smithman to rule him out. Then he can eliminate that particular way of interpreting the evidence.
I think he is following the MCS around because it's a perfect opportunity to be spending a lot of time with them, watching them. Who knows, even bugging them.
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Post by tiny on 18.10.13 19:58

@KenzieWenzie wrote:
@ChillyHeat wrote:I think the Paynes are ready to crack (hence their omission from CW). The problem Davey boy has, is he does not want all his  escapades to come to the front. He cannot be guaranteed it wouldn't, because if he turnt to the Prosecution side, then the defence of the McCanns will have it brought out.
 
What we need to look at is, what are these persons involved aspiring to be. How far up the medical chain are they striving for. If they are striving for a big part in the medical area, then they will stay as silent as possible.
Sorry but I don't the Payne incident ever happened, those three thought Maddie was abducted for a while in my opinion, the accusiations were made up to keep him in line. I really don't think peodophillia has anything to do with this case, I think David Payne is another innocent victim who broke away a while ago and needed to be brought in again. All my own opinion, and has been for a while
they must have done some thing wrong if they needed bringing in again,if you are innocent of any wrong doing then you would say, on yer bike and tell the truth.
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Post by Guest on 18.10.13 20:00

@tiny wrote:
@KenzieWenzie wrote:
@ChillyHeat wrote:I think the Paynes are ready to crack (hence their omission from CW). The problem Davey boy has, is he does not want all his  escapades to come to the front. He cannot be guaranteed it wouldn't, because if he turnt to the Prosecution side, then the defence of the McCanns will have it brought out.
 
What we need to look at is, what are these persons involved aspiring to be. How far up the medical chain are they striving for. If they are striving for a big part in the medical area, then they will stay as silent as possible.
Sorry but I don't the Payne incident ever happened, those three thought Maddie was abducted for a while in my opinion, the accusiations were made up to keep him in line. I really don't think peodophillia has anything to do with this case, I think David Payne is another innocent victim who broke away a while ago and needed to be brought in again. All my own opinion, and has been for a while
they must have done some thing wrong if they needed bringing in again,if you are innocent of any wrong doing then you would say, on yer bike and tell the truth.
Can you explain keep him in line?  Also broke away a while ago and needed to be brought in again?
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Post by ProfessorPPlum on 18.10.13 20:01



comperedna5 wrote: It is just not credible that the closest people of all should be left out of the picture, whilst possibly fictitious or irrelevant strangers are considered as key to the case. 
They appear to have been left out of a McCann-sponsored piece of BBC propaganda but it doesn't mean that they have been left out of the picture. 

We can't have this both ways: one minute we're happy that Smithman is GM. Now we're unhappy that Redwood has focused the UK attention on Smithman! nah
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Post by tigger on 18.10.13 20:01

@KenzieWenzie wrote:
@ChillyHeat wrote:I think the Paynes are ready to crack (hence their omission from CW). The problem Davey boy has, is he does not want all his  escapades to come to the front. He cannot be guaranteed it wouldn't, because if he turnt to the Prosecution side, then the defence of the McCanns will have it brought out.
 
What we need to look at is, what are these persons involved aspiring to be. How far up the medical chain are they striving for. If they are striving for a big part in the medical area, then they will stay as silent as possible.
Sorry but I don't the Payne incident ever happened, those three thought Maddie was abducted for a while in my opinion, the accusiations were made up to keep him in line. I really don't think peodophillia has anything to do with this case, I think David Payne is another innocent victim who broke away a while ago and needed to be brought in again. All my own opinion, and has been for a while
I don't agree on the Gaspar statement being used or even made for that reason, however I do think that most if not all of the T7  thought they were helping a friend in need, until it became clear something else was going on. 
That does explain why the Paynes and Webster made other statements in 2008 I believe, which aren't in the published files.

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Post by chillyheat on 18.10.13 20:11

@Cheshire Cat wrote:
@SixMillionQuid wrote:Sorry but as far as Operation Grange is concerned the McCanns are not suspects.
Pat Browns latest Tweet:

A good detective like Amaral draws conclusions based on physical & behavioral evidence. Redwood is creating theories based on 0. #McCann
Like I said, there are thousands of sofa detectives. But we could never get a conviction based on what we THINK. Amaral was correct in his thinking.He possibly said enough is enough, Im point blank accusing them......But.
This is a very contrived conspiracy. Personally I cannot fathom that so many would cover up for the McCanns, but the trouble is....They may have. That becomes a very sticky sticking point. Who out of the pact would be willing to open their heart. The answer is possibly none of them. If Mummy and Daddy don't care, why would others. Its got to the point of no going back.
We are trying to unravel a deep mystery, whilst the ones involved are trying to unravel more money. It stinks and scarily, it might always be.
If it is in SY interests to once and for all bury this, then they are not doing a very good cover.....Theres more to this. And I will side with the old bill on this one, for once in my life.
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