Re: GERMAN VERSION OF CRIMEWATCH- Totally different to ours

by MoonGoddess 18.10.13 11:00

Portia wrote:
russiandoll wrote:advice please, when the link was posted originally to this programme I only managed to watch about 2/3 then my screen froze, I missed the part about the interview which so many commented on re behaviour. I also note now from a still I have seen that unlike UK AR was with them while they spoke.
Just clicked link on page 1 and getting an advert then a message in German that the prog now only available online for people living in Germany.

Any ideas as I would like to see the interview with the Mcs.

Thanks folks !
Good morning,

Its on Youtube: just ask for Maddie and Aktenzeichen. Two hour program; Maddie stuff after one hour. Use switch at bottom of scree to move forward.

On 1.28.47 the actress speaks Dutch: 'Madelin, waar ben je?' Where are you.

So it IS an own production, I think.

I also think that when the actress rejoins the (non-existing ? according to Textusa) round table after her discovery, and is embraced by 'Gerry' she again speaks Dutch.

Also please note the force used against her when MO and ROB want to visit the Appartment 5a in her stead, and she looks astonished and hurt.

This firmly stitches up both men, as firstly they, not GM are the last ones to see her alive, and secondly they are emphatically portrayed as having with some force prevented one of her parents -KM- to go look after her when she insisted she was going to look in on her children.

This (KH/GM?) co-production puts a very, very suspicious light on both MO and ROB!

Also: nice purple striped socks worn by AR!

Thank You for the link. I've just watched it... it really is a case of 'spot the difference' with the English Version... for people that have not followed the case like most of us, it really would appear to throw an awful lot of suspicion on MO & RO... now I am thinking along the lines of DP, FP & DW not named ['protected' because helping with enquiries?]... trying to get the rest of Tapas crew to crack?

I just cannot make up my mind between SY playing a blinder or SY just throwing more 'confusion' and 'misinformation' into the ring...

by Nereid 18.10.13 11:00

In the German studio interview did Gerry forget to wear his good quality wrist band? I can't see it.

by MoonGoddess 18.10.13 11:26

AFTERTHOUGHT; couple the worried look of KM when MO insisted on doing the check, and his leaving with RO, with her running back to the Tapas saying "they've taken her"..... perhaps we know who she meant now ...

Oh what a tangled web..

by sallypelt 18.10.13 11:56

MoonGoddess wrote:AFTERTHOUGHT; couple the worried look of KM when MO insisted on doing the check, and his leaving with RO, with her running back to the Tapas saying "they've taken her"..... perhaps we know who she meant now ...

Oh what a tangled web..

I am convinced 99.99% that Kate didn't know that Madeleine had died until she did her check. Madeleine may have been very sick, for whatever reason, but I keep saying she wouldn't have been able to hold it together at the Tapas dinner knowing her daughter was dead, and then swing into acting on the discovery that she had been "abducted". Maybe this is why MO insisted that he do Kate's check. Kate also told the social worker that "a couple took her". Could this be Jane Tanner and Matt Oldfield?? And Jane Tanner didn't see bundleman for GM's benefit, but for her own?
The plot thickens

by Nereid 18.10.13 12:46

sallypelt wrote:
MoonGoddess wrote:AFTERTHOUGHT; couple the worried look of KM when MO insisted on doing the check, and his leaving with RO, with her running back to the Tapas saying "they've taken her"..... perhaps we know who she meant now ...

Oh what a tangled web..
I am convinced 99.99% that Kate didn't know that Madeleine had died until she did her check. Madeleine may have been very sick, for whatever reason, but I keep saying she wouldn't have been able to hold it together at the Tapas dinner knowing her daughter was dead, and then swing into acting on the discovery that she had been "abducted". Maybe this is why MO insisted that he do Kate's check. Kate also told the social worker that "a couple took her". Could this be Jane Tanner and Matt Oldfield?? And Jane Tanner didn't see bundleman for GM's benefit, but for her own?
The plot thickens

Certainly food for thought.

Russell tended to his sick daughter, cleaned her up, changed her bedding. Did he really?

by I'm not buying 18.10.13 12:57

Jane and Russ are a couple. Both away from the table at the same time.

Anyone thought about whose bed Russ was changing?

by I'm not buying 18.10.13 12:58

By the way, I'm fully aware that if the intention of the CW programme was to throw suspicion away from the McCanns and onto other members of the T9, then it appears to have worked really well.

by MoonGoddess 18.10.13 13:31

Nereid wrote:
sallypelt wrote:
MoonGoddess wrote:AFTERTHOUGHT; couple the worried look of KM when MO insisted on doing the check, and his leaving with RO, with her running back to the Tapas saying "they've taken her"..... perhaps we know who she meant now ...

Oh what a tangled web..
I am convinced 99.99% that Kate didn't know that Madeleine had died until she did her check. Madeleine may have been very sick, for whatever reason, but I keep saying she wouldn't have been able to hold it together at the Tapas dinner knowing her daughter was dead, and then swing into acting on the discovery that she had been "abducted". Maybe this is why MO insisted that he do Kate's check. Kate also told the social worker that "a couple took her". Could this be Jane Tanner and Matt Oldfield?? And Jane Tanner didn't see bundleman for GM's benefit, but for her own?
The plot thickens
Certainly food for thought.

Russell tended to his sick daughter, cleaned her up, changed her bedding. Did he really?

Any opinion I have on that would probably be heavily clouded, because most of the men in my life were never as willing and domesticated as that!

Can anyone tell me at what point is JT supposed to have found out that her child was sick, and that her husband was playing a domestic God in their apartment? does it say in the files? or does JT find out from MO when he comes back from his check? only it states on one of the CW's that she got up to "relieve" her husband.

by Nereid 18.10.13 13:48

MoonGoddess wrote:
Nereid wrote:
sallypelt wrote:
MoonGoddess wrote:AFTERTHOUGHT; couple the worried look of KM when MO insisted on doing the check, and his leaving with RO, with her running back to the Tapas saying "they've taken her"..... perhaps we know who she meant now ...

Oh what a tangled web..
I am convinced 99.99% that Kate didn't know that Madeleine had died until she did her check. Madeleine may have been very sick, for whatever reason, but I keep saying she wouldn't have been able to hold it together at the Tapas dinner knowing her daughter was dead, and then swing into acting on the discovery that she had been "abducted". Maybe this is why MO insisted that he do Kate's check. Kate also told the social worker that "a couple took her". Could this be Jane Tanner and Matt Oldfield?? And Jane Tanner didn't see bundleman for GM's benefit, but for her own?
The plot thickens
Certainly food for thought.

Russell tended to his sick daughter, cleaned her up, changed her bedding. Did he really?
Any opinion I have on that would probably be heavily clouded, because most of the men in my life were never as willing and domesticated as that!

Can anyone tell me at what point is JT supposed to have found out that her child was sick, and that her husband was playing a domestic God in their apartment? does it say in the files? or does JT find out from MO when he comes back from his check? only it states on one of the CW's that she got up to "relieve" her husband.

From Russell’s statement on the 4^th May 2007:

At around 9.35/9.40, taking advantage of the lull [waiting pause] before being served with the first [main] course, the informant left the restaurant with Matthew to check the children. When he got there, his daughter **** was crying. He stayed in her bedroom with her. He supposes that Matthew checked his apartment. Matthew returned to the restaurant five minutes after leaving it. His partner came to take his place in ****'s bedroom around 15 minutes later after finishing dinner.

At around 9.55, he went back to the restaurant where his food had been waiting for 5 or 10 minutes. All the other adults had finished.

From Russell’s statement on 11^th May 2007:

- Matthew Oldfield returned to the restaurant, having told Jane Tanner that the deponent stayed behind with Evie O'Brien because she was crying.
- The truth is that after the crying, the deponent had to change all the sheets and his daughter's clothing as she had vomited.
- His companion came to change places with him 15 minutes after and told him to go finish dinner.

From Russel’s rogatory on 10^th April 2008

After we had eaten the starters I needed to go to the toilet so Matt and I decided we would go and check on the children. We walked together I recall that the light was fading I went straight to 5D I could hear Evie was murmuring. I went into the apartment and Matt went into his. I went to the toilet to urinate and then started to clean up Evie and change her, Matt came into my apartment and asked if I needed any help. It was getting darker by this time. I said to go back and tell Jane that Evie was unwell.

I sat in the lounge and read to Evie Jane came back having eaten her meal. We stayed together in the apartment for around 5minutes. I went across to the Tapas restaurant this would have been around 21:45hours, Jane remained with Evie. The group joked about Jane having been to relieve me they were all in good humour.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

It makes me so angry. That poor daughter of Russell and Jane, not being well, being sick, and all on her own! No one there for her! Until superdad comes in and heroically cleans her up and changes her sheets.

If that is what really happened.

by russiandoll 18.10.13 14:48

sallypelt wrote:
MoonGoddess wrote:AFTERTHOUGHT; couple the worried look of KM when MO insisted on doing the check, and his leaving with RO, with her running back to the Tapas saying "they've taken her"..... perhaps we know who she meant now ...

Oh what a tangled web..
I am convinced 99.99% that Kate didn't know that Madeleine had died until she did her check. Madeleine may have been very sick, for whatever reason, but I keep saying she wouldn't have been able to hold it together at the Tapas dinner knowing her daughter was dead, and then swing into acting on the discovery that she had been "abducted". Maybe this is why MO insisted that he do Kate's check. Kate also told the social worker that "a couple took her". Could this be Jane Tanner and Matt Oldfield?? And Jane Tanner didn't see bundleman for GM's benefit, but for her own?
The plot thickens

Interesting, but how was there time to move a body if Maddie was discovered this late on 3rd? I don't have a problem with the clash at Smith sighting time because if this was Gerry he was I believe carrying a sleeping girl of similar age to Maddie. Whoever had moved Maddie had how long to do it in this scenario if Maddie was alive before tapas meal?

Tangled web does not begin to describe it, does it , but too tangled and it will be implausible imo.

by MoonGoddess 18.10.13 17:24

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] - Thank You for sparing the time to fish out the statements....

I have posted this before [sorry for repeating] but way back when, I posted a link, it was a pdf file, a "presentation" that RO had done at Leicestershire University [I think?... could have been another university] it was on 'Opiate Medicine' - it gave clear instructions on how to induce sickness in a child that had overdosed..... that was woosh clunked from the internet faster than the speed of light... it has always stayed in my mind...

I have always wondered if JT, RO, KM & GM used the same 'batch' of sleeping draft and RO bought on his daughters sickness to get it out of her system.... that would indicate he knew MM's demise at that point and not sure how that fits in timeline....

LOL'ing at, once he had played superdad by cleaning up child and sheets, he sat down to read her a story.... what a crock of excretement!

by Guest 18.10.13 18:02

MoonGoddess wrote:[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] - Thank You for sparing the time to fish out the statements....

I have posted this before [sorry for repeating] but way back when, I posted a link, it was a pdf file, a "presentation" that RO had done at Leicestershire University [I think?... could have been another university] it was on 'Opiate Medicine' - it gave clear instructions on how to induce sickness in a child that had overdosed..... that was woosh clunked from the internet faster than the speed of light... it has always stayed in my mind...

I have always wondered if JT, RO, KM & GM used the same 'batch' of sleeping draft and RO bought on his daughters sickness to get it out of her system.... that would indicate he knew MM's demise at that point and not sure how that fits in timeline....

LOL'ing at, once he had played superdad by cleaning up child and sheets, he sat down to read her a story.... what a crock of excretement!

Not to mention the fact that the MW staff never saw any soiled/changed sheets

by Mariita 18.10.13 20:24

sallypelt wrote:
MoonGoddess wrote:AFTERTHOUGHT; couple the worried look of KM when MO insisted on doing the check, and his leaving with RO, with her running back to the Tapas saying "they've taken her"..... perhaps we know who she meant now ...

Oh what a tangled web..
I am convinced 99.99% that Kate didn't know that Madeleine had died until she did her check. Madeleine may have been very sick, for whatever reason, but I keep saying she wouldn't have been able to hold it together at the Tapas dinner knowing her daughter was dead, and then swing into acting on the discovery that she had been "abducted". Maybe this is why MO insisted that he do Kate's check. Kate also told the social worker that "a couple took her". Could this be Jane Tanner and Matt Oldfield?? And Jane Tanner didn't see bundleman for GM's benefit, but for her own?
The plot thickens

But what difference do some hours make, Kate was clearly able to 'hold it together' afterwards when she and Gerry made their phonecalls among hundreds of other things...deleting phonecalls/messages and so on. The whole thing smells premeditation, for me Thursday 3 May is impossible if you look at the picture in whole. Dr Martin Roberts mccannfiles goes into detail about this, http://www.mccannfiles.com/id436.html 'The X factor'. I also find it extremely odd to create a fund on day two, after the accident..How can you swing into that mood shortly after your child has died a sudden, unexpected death...Whatever happened must have happened earlier.

by worriedmum 18.10.13 21:14

yes but surely the important question is, who has added the 'worried exchange of looks' to the reconstruction? And why?

by sallypelt 18.10.13 21:29

quote= wrote:
MoonGoddess wrote:AFTERTHOUGHT; couple the worried look of KM when MO insisted on doing the check, and his leaving with RO, with her running back to the Tapas saying "they've taken her"..... perhaps we know who she meant now ...

Oh what a tangled web..
I am convinced 99.99% that Kate didn't know that Madeleine had died until she did her check. Madeleine may have been very sick, for whatever reason, but I keep saying she wouldn't have been able to hold it together at the Tapas dinner knowing her daughter was dead, and then swing into acting on the discovery that she had been "abducted". Maybe this is why MO insisted that he do Kate's check. Kate also told the social worker that "a couple took her". Could this be Jane Tanner and Matt Oldfield?? And Jane Tanner didn't see bundleman for GM's benefit, but for her own?
The plot thickens

Mariita"]

But what difference do some hours make, Kate was clearly able to 'hold it together' afterwards when she and Gerry made their phonecalls among hundreds of other things...deleting phonecalls/messages and so on. The whole thing smells premeditation, for me Thursday 3 May is impossible if you look at the picture in whole. Dr Martin Roberts mccannfiles goes into detail about this, http://www.mccannfiles.com/id436.html 'The X factor'. I also find it extremely odd to create a fund on day two, after the accident..How can you swing into that mood shortly after your child has died a sudden, unexpected death...Whatever happened must have happened earlier.

[/quote]
The fund was set up on 15th May, 12 days after Madeleine's disappearance. While it's not 2 days after, it still appears that there was an urgent need to get one up and running.

This is info on the fund:

Business Overview
Madeleine's Fund: Leaving No Stone Unturned Limited is an Active business incorporated in England & Wales on 15th May 2007. Their business activity is recorded as Other Social Work Activities Without Accommodation N.e.c.. Madeleine's Fund: Leaving No Stone Unturned Limited is run by 6 current members. and 1 company secretary. It has no share capital. It is not part of a group.

The latest Annual Accounts submitted to Companies House for the year up to 31/03/2012 reported 'cash at bank' of £528,267, 'liabilities' worth £55,178, 'net worth' of £474,867 and 'assets' worth £530,045. Madeleine's Fund: Leaving No Stone Unturned Limited's risk score was amended on 13/06/2013.

by StraightThinking 18.10.13 21:47

sallypelt wrote:
I am convinced 99.99% that Kate didn't know that Madeleine had died until she did her check.

I agree that this is a very plausible scenario, and one which has never been given much credibility on Mirror and 3A forums, or indeed here and MM
Indeed, it's even possible that K's arrival back to 5a looked very much like it did on CW
So for the sake of keeping an open mind, imagine it is true and work out how events that night may have unfolded, and why
You will be surprised how simple one of the most likely solutions is
Occam's Razor ....

by Mariita 18.10.13 22:26

Ok, thanks sallypelt for the info about the fund-setting up. But I still think that a switch-over is very unlikely in this (short) period. Besides that, I'm still referring to Dr. Martin Roberts mccannfiles. If 'it' happened in the evening on Thursday, all the other very odd things that happened earlier in the week, lose the context. Whereas if we stop staring at Thursday as the one and only answer, it all fits into the 'puzzle'.
Hours, days or even weeks make no difference. A dead child means, for most people, a nonfunctioning period lasting months, even years. If a parent (or both) are capable of thinking straight as in planning a fund, events, travelling AND being so clever in hiding the corpse in such a short time, well then that parent's mind has crossed the line to the area where even the worst scenario is possible. Which by the way wouldn't be the first time in history. Statistics confirm this fact, sadly.

by Julchen 21.10.13 9:27

And sure enough German Bild-Zeitung have come up with two suspicious subjects (mind Bild-Zeitung is Sun plus Star and the lot!):

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"Was haben diese Sex-Killer mit Maddies Verschwinden zu tun?"
"What have these sex killers to do with the disappearance of Maddie?"

Jule

by Guest 21.10.13 9:56

worriedmum wrote:yes but surely the important question is, who has added the 'worried exchange of looks' to the reconstruction? And why?

Good question!

Anyone looking at that scene subliminally get the message 2 men, MO&ROB, are very much involved, as they prevented a concerned and devoted mother from looking after her own children.

Then the new fotofits of the (2 men = 1 man)

Then the 2 resurrected -and-already-jailed-for-life-killer-paedo's allegedly being interviewed in connection with a girls disappearance

Then the fact that these new fotofits might well have been made by photoshopping existing photographic images to begin with; instead of, as is normal police procedure having been developed from scratch, form of face, eyes, nose, eyebrows, mouth, as have all the other fotofits in this case till date the most famous one being: Egg-man.

Do I get my point across?

What's to bet that the 2 killers will turn out not only to have been in Portugal in 2007, but even to have been in PdL at apartment 3A on May 3rd 2007, to have taken poor Maddie (even though they fancy little boys), to have walked by the Smiths, and as a consequence of all of this are: The Abductor(s)?

by plebgate 21.10.13 10:15

If that pans out Portia they will need a confession. No DNA evidence available.

by russiandoll 18.12.13 19:22

The duck I do not understand, it is not something I would expect to see in the Atlantic Ocean or a swimming pool.

I do now. If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck............it's a duck.

by russiandoll 17.01.14 15:05

Wonder if the show contacted Redwood with this good news

oh, the irony......unreliable dogs no less !

[BOLD MINE]

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The Madeleine McCann mystery has helped solve a five-year-old murder in Germany.

A record seven million people had tuned in to watch the show in which Kate and Gerry McCann appealed for help in finding their daughter.

But immediately before their appeal - a young German girl whose mother, Sigrid Paulus, vanished five years ago had appealed for help in tracking her mum down.

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Confession: Gerd Paulus admitted that he'd murdered his wife, Sigrid, five years after she disappeared

Christina Paulus, 21, said: ‘She was not there for my birthday or my graduation, but I always thought maybe she was there, somewhere, watching. But the worst was that I got married in 2011, I knew she would not have missed that. I tried the police again, and then I went to the media.’

More...

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The TV show Aktenzeichnen XY - German's version of Crimewatch - included a heart-breaking reconstruction showing the young girl at a zoo with a friend where she was convinced that she had seen her mother some weeks before, and had run after her shouting ‘mummy, mummy’ only to lose her in the crowd.

Immediately after that she decided to go to the media and after looking at the story a journalist raised the alarm with police. They discovered that Sigrid Paulus had not notified the authorities of her change of address, had not been using her health insurance card and had ‘left no other traces whatsoever’.

It was then decided to include it on the German Crimewatch show, where it appeared as the item immediately before the McCanns appeal.

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Tragedy: Christina, pictured with her partner, Daniel, had for years believed that her mother was alive - but a caller on Germany's version of Crimewatch helped police establish that she'd been murdered

And a German police spokesman said: ‘With so many people watching the show, more than ever before, we were given an enormous access to the German public and we had one call in particular which told us that the woman's husband had been doing a lot of construction work at the time she vanished.

‘As a result of this we decided to do some investigations at the family home in Konigswinter, near Bonn in North Rhine-Westphalia. That included using a digger and dogs specially trained in looking for corpses, which resulted in a new cellar wall being dug out, and as a result a woman's body was found.’

It meant, tragically, that the woman the daughter Christina Paulus had seen could not have been her mother.

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The murder case was solved after millions tuned in to Germany's version of Crimewatch to watch Kate and Gerry McCann's appeal over missing Maddie (pictured)

According to German media the dead woman's husband Gerd, 52, who had also appealed together with his children for his wife to get in touch has now made a full confession.

He was shown in the Crimewatch reconstruction going with his children to police stations and giving an interview in which he said his wife had called to collect some of her possessions together with three men, and then left never to contact them again.

But the daughter said she had known something was wrong when her mother had failed to send a birthday card or anything: ‘We always had a good relationship’.

And now Gerd Paulus has admitted killing the then 40-year-old woman after a bitter row over money, saying he had strangled her and then concreted her body away to hide it.

Forensic experts have already confirmed that it is the missing woman who vanished in February 2008 after several hours in which specialists worked to free the body from the concrete tomb.

The woman's children and other family members are getting emergency counselling.

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