differences between the ''reconstructions''

by worriedmum on 17.10.13 16:22

If there are differences between the 'reconstructions' being shown, can some-one please tell me whether it means one of them is incorrect or whether BOTH are? And if so why hasn't this been corrected by the parents or by Scotland Yard? In the interests of accuracy? And does it mean that what has been left out doesn't matter?

by Guest on 17.10.13 16:58

@worriedmum wrote:If there are differences between the 'reconstructions' being shown, can some-one please tell me whether it means one of them is incorrect or whether BOTH are? And if so why hasn't this been corrected by the parents or by Scotland Yard? In the interests of accuracy? And does it mean that what has been left out doesn't matter?

***
Now that you ask the question, I seem to remember that the Germans showed a full T9 table, whereas it looks like the British had no actors for the Paynes. I may be mistaken, though, as last night I had "interrupted viewing" as my dogs were challenging each other all evening to the point of near-fighting ...

by Nereid on 17.10.13 17:07

Châtelaine wrote:
@worriedmum wrote:If there are differences between the 'reconstructions' being shown, can some-one please tell me whether it means one of them is incorrect or whether BOTH are? And if so why hasn't this been corrected by the parents or by Scotland Yard? In the interests of accuracy? And does it mean that what has been left out doesn't matter?
***
Now that you ask the question, I seem to remember that the Germans showed a full T9 table, whereas it looks like the British had no actors for the Paynes. I may be mistaken, though, as last night I had "interrupted viewing" as my dogs were challenging each other all evening to the point of near-fighting ...

The British Crimewatch had actors for Payne/Webster but curiously they were never referred to by name, they were just 'the remaining 3 friends'.

by Guest on 17.10.13 17:24

@Nereid wrote:The British Crimewatch had actors for Payne/Webster but curiously they were never referred to by name, they were just 'the remaining 3 friends'.

***
Ah, O.K. Thanks.

by Hopespringseternal on 17.10.13 17:25

Surely there is no need to offer a reward as the fund has already offered significantly more money for information leading to the solving of the mystery? This new reward; who's paying for it or is it just being added to SY's 'tab'?

by Angelique on 17.10.13 17:27

The Dutch programme is using the pictures of Madeleine with the coloboma and uses the Look Logo as well - but they didn't make much of it, its really just a "fleck"?

by Angelique on 17.10.13 18:51

@Smokeandmirrors wrote:
@MRNOODLES wrote:
@Smokeandmirrors wrote:The duck had a jesters hat on .
Meaning... You must be ducking joking.
Oh duck off!! No, I don't mean it MrNoodles!

Perhaps I should have pm'd about the connotation of a 'duck' instead.

It was used as a subliminal image in a situation directed at young teenage girls. Not used instead of the word in a sentence/spoken word.

by MRNOODLES on 17.10.13 22:49

@Angelique wrote:
@Smokeandmirrors wrote:
@MRNOODLES wrote:
@Smokeandmirrors wrote:The duck had a jesters hat on .
Meaning... You must be ducking joking.
Oh duck off!! No, I don't mean it MrNoodles!
Perhaps I should have pm'd about the connotation of a 'duck' instead.

It was used as a subliminal image in a situation directed at young teenage girls. Not used instead of the word in a sentence/spoken word.

As a matter of interest.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/cbbcnews/hi/uk/newsid_1581000/1581293.stm

by Guest on 17.10.13 22:56

Mr Noodles, great avatar, but it is off the page on right hand side, making the writing on left hand side off the page.......at least on my computer.

by russiandoll on 18.10.13 8:35

advice please, when the link was posted originally to this programme I only managed to watch about 2/3 then my screen froze, I missed the part about the interview which so many commented on re behaviour. I also note now from a still I have seen that unlike UK AR was with them while they spoke.
Just clicked link on page 1 and getting an advert then a message in German that the prog now only available online for people living in Germany.

Any ideas as I would like to see the interview with the Mcs.

Thanks folks !

by Guest on 18.10.13 8:49

@russiandoll wrote:advice please, when the link was posted originally to this programme I only managed to watch about 2/3 then my screen froze, I missed the part about the interview which so many commented on re behaviour. I also note now from a still I have seen that unlike UK AR was with them while they spoke.
Just clicked link on page 1 and getting an advert then a message in German that the prog now only available online for people living in Germany.

Any ideas as I would like to see the interview with the Mcs.

Thanks folks !

Good morning,

Its on Youtube: just ask for Maddie and Aktenzeichen. Two hour program; Maddie stuff after one hour. Use switch at bottom of scree to move forward.

On 1.28.47 the actress speaks Dutch: 'Madelin, waar ben je?' Where are you.

So it IS an own production, I think.

I also think that when the actress rejoins the (non-existing ? according to Textusa) round table after her discovery, and is embraced by 'Gerry' she again speaks Dutch.

Also please note the force used against her when MO and ROB want to visit the Appartment 5a in her stead, and she looks astonished and hurt.

This firmly stitches up both men, as firstly they, not GM are the last ones to see her alive, and secondly they are emphatically portrayed as having with some force prevented one of her parents -KM- to go look after her when she insisted she was going to look in on her children.

This (KH/GM?) co-production puts a very, very suspicious light on both MO and ROB!

Also: nice purple striped socks worn by AR!

by russiandoll on 18.10.13 9:15

Thank you Portia.

by Angelique on 18.10.13 9:24

@MRNOODLES wrote:As a matter of interest.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/cbbcnews/hi/uk/newsid_1581000/1581293.stm

MRNOODLES

Ah, yes, which is why I said it was only to do with a disappeared child who left her duck behind.

In the video it has no other connotation at all just as it would to HRH. big grin

It was used in respect of what I was referring to as lure and/or double meaning. But I still enjoyed your banter with SAM. big grin

by russiandoll on 18.10.13 9:40

Portia, I can understand the German but found the youtube very annoying with the overdubbing of the McCann answers into German while you could still hear their voices in the background. There should be a video with English subtitles or dubbed in English? Germans have great English and this interview would have been conducted in the language of the guests? Although he looked to be speaking German with his mouth movements yet no interpreter.....will re watch later.

Noted : the couple looked very uncomfortable, AR sat at a professional distance from them [as I would expect , his relationship with them is not personal.]
A table between them. I wish the camera had shown more of his looking at them, it was understandably focusing on people as they spoke...a wider angle would have been interesting, because it is a detective's job to be very observant in these situations.

Kate McCann looked dishevelled and worn out on the UK crimewatch, here although she looked extremely tired she had a full face of make up and had taken care with her appearance. It is the difference I don't understand here in the presentation for 2 countries.

The duck I do not understand, it is not something I would expect to see in the Atlantic Ocean or a swimming pool.

A little bizarre and had the feel in parts of a promo for a tour operator.

As for MO and ROB, it most certainly was made to create the impression that they were determined to stop her going to 5a.

As to why......?

by Guest on 18.10.13 10:55

Germans ALWAYS do voice-over, RD. Very annoying.

by MoonGoddess on 18.10.13 11:00

@Portia wrote:
@russiandoll wrote:advice please, when the link was posted originally to this programme I only managed to watch about 2/3 then my screen froze, I missed the part about the interview which so many commented on re behaviour. I also note now from a still I have seen that unlike UK AR was with them while they spoke.
Just clicked link on page 1 and getting an advert then a message in German that the prog now only available online for people living in Germany.

Any ideas as I would like to see the interview with the Mcs.

Thanks folks !
Good morning,

Its on Youtube: just ask for Maddie and Aktenzeichen. Two hour program; Maddie stuff after one hour. Use switch at bottom of scree to move forward.

On 1.28.47 the actress speaks Dutch: 'Madelin, waar ben je?' Where are you.

So it IS an own production, I think.

I also think that when the actress rejoins the (non-existing ? according to Textusa) round table after her discovery, and is embraced by 'Gerry' she again speaks Dutch.

Also please note the force used against her when MO and ROB want to visit the Appartment 5a in her stead, and she looks astonished and hurt.

This firmly stitches up both men, as firstly they, not GM are the last ones to see her alive, and secondly they are emphatically portrayed as having with some force prevented one of her parents -KM- to go look after her when she insisted she was going to look in on her children.

This (KH/GM?) co-production puts a very, very suspicious light on both MO and ROB!

Also: nice purple striped socks worn by AR!

Thank You for the link. I've just watched it... it really is a case of 'spot the difference' with the English Version... for people that have not followed the case like most of us, it really would appear to throw an awful lot of suspicion on MO & RO... now I am thinking along the lines of DP, FP & DW not named ['protected' because helping with enquiries?]... trying to get the rest of Tapas crew to crack?

I just cannot make up my mind between SY playing a blinder or SY just throwing more 'confusion' and 'misinformation' into the ring...

by Nereid on 18.10.13 11:00

In the German studio interview did Gerry forget to wear his good quality wrist band? I can't see it.

by MoonGoddess on 18.10.13 11:26

AFTERTHOUGHT; couple the worried look of KM when MO insisted on doing the check, and his leaving with RO, with her running back to the Tapas saying "they've taken her"..... perhaps we know who she meant now ...

Oh what a tangled web..

by sallypelt on 18.10.13 11:56

@MoonGoddess wrote:AFTERTHOUGHT; couple the worried look of KM when MO insisted on doing the check, and his leaving with RO, with her running back to the Tapas saying "they've taken her"..... perhaps we know who she meant now ...

Oh what a tangled web..

I am convinced 99.99% that Kate didn't know that Madeleine had died until she did her check. Madeleine may have been very sick, for whatever reason, but I keep saying she wouldn't have been able to hold it together at the Tapas dinner knowing her daughter was dead, and then swing into acting on the discovery that she had been "abducted". Maybe this is why MO insisted that he do Kate's check. Kate also told the social worker that "a couple took her". Could this be Jane Tanner and Matt Oldfield?? And Jane Tanner didn't see bundleman for GM's benefit, but for her own?
The plot thickens

by Nereid on 18.10.13 12:46

@sallypelt wrote:
@MoonGoddess wrote:AFTERTHOUGHT; couple the worried look of KM when MO insisted on doing the check, and his leaving with RO, with her running back to the Tapas saying "they've taken her"..... perhaps we know who she meant now ...

Oh what a tangled web..
I am convinced 99.99% that Kate didn't know that Madeleine had died until she did her check. Madeleine may have been very sick, for whatever reason, but I keep saying she wouldn't have been able to hold it together at the Tapas dinner knowing her daughter was dead, and then swing into acting on the discovery that she had been "abducted". Maybe this is why MO insisted that he do Kate's check. Kate also told the social worker that "a couple took her". Could this be Jane Tanner and Matt Oldfield?? And Jane Tanner didn't see bundleman for GM's benefit, but for her own?
The plot thickens

Certainly food for thought.

Russell tended to his sick daughter, cleaned her up, changed her bedding. Did he really?

by I'm not buying on 18.10.13 12:57

Jane and Russ are a couple. Both away from the table at the same time.

Anyone thought about whose bed Russ was changing?

by I'm not buying on 18.10.13 12:58

By the way, I'm fully aware that if the intention of the CW programme was to throw suspicion away from the McCanns and onto other members of the T9, then it appears to have worked really well.

by MoonGoddess on 18.10.13 13:31

@Nereid wrote:
@sallypelt wrote:
@MoonGoddess wrote:AFTERTHOUGHT; couple the worried look of KM when MO insisted on doing the check, and his leaving with RO, with her running back to the Tapas saying "they've taken her"..... perhaps we know who she meant now ...

Oh what a tangled web..
I am convinced 99.99% that Kate didn't know that Madeleine had died until she did her check. Madeleine may have been very sick, for whatever reason, but I keep saying she wouldn't have been able to hold it together at the Tapas dinner knowing her daughter was dead, and then swing into acting on the discovery that she had been "abducted". Maybe this is why MO insisted that he do Kate's check. Kate also told the social worker that "a couple took her". Could this be Jane Tanner and Matt Oldfield?? And Jane Tanner didn't see bundleman for GM's benefit, but for her own?
The plot thickens
Certainly food for thought.

Russell tended to his sick daughter, cleaned her up, changed her bedding. Did he really?

Any opinion I have on that would probably be heavily clouded, because most of the men in my life were never as willing and domesticated as that!

Can anyone tell me at what point is JT supposed to have found out that her child was sick, and that her husband was playing a domestic God in their apartment? does it say in the files? or does JT find out from MO when he comes back from his check? only it states on one of the CW's that she got up to "relieve" her husband.

by Nereid on 18.10.13 13:48

@MoonGoddess wrote:
@Nereid wrote:
@sallypelt wrote:
@MoonGoddess wrote:AFTERTHOUGHT; couple the worried look of KM when MO insisted on doing the check, and his leaving with RO, with her running back to the Tapas saying "they've taken her"..... perhaps we know who she meant now ...

Oh what a tangled web..
I am convinced 99.99% that Kate didn't know that Madeleine had died until she did her check. Madeleine may have been very sick, for whatever reason, but I keep saying she wouldn't have been able to hold it together at the Tapas dinner knowing her daughter was dead, and then swing into acting on the discovery that she had been "abducted". Maybe this is why MO insisted that he do Kate's check. Kate also told the social worker that "a couple took her". Could this be Jane Tanner and Matt Oldfield?? And Jane Tanner didn't see bundleman for GM's benefit, but for her own?
The plot thickens
Certainly food for thought.

Russell tended to his sick daughter, cleaned her up, changed her bedding. Did he really?
Any opinion I have on that would probably be heavily clouded, because most of the men in my life were never as willing and domesticated as that!

Can anyone tell me at what point is JT supposed to have found out that her child was sick, and that her husband was playing a domestic God in their apartment? does it say in the files? or does JT find out from MO when he comes back from his check? only it states on one of the CW's that she got up to "relieve" her husband.

From Russell’s statement on the 4^th May 2007:

At around 9.35/9.40, taking advantage of the lull [waiting pause] before being served with the first [main] course, the informant left the restaurant with Matthew to check the children. When he got there, his daughter **** was crying. He stayed in her bedroom with her. He supposes that Matthew checked his apartment. Matthew returned to the restaurant five minutes after leaving it. His partner came to take his place in ****'s bedroom around 15 minutes later after finishing dinner.

At around 9.55, he went back to the restaurant where his food had been waiting for 5 or 10 minutes. All the other adults had finished.

From Russell’s statement on 11^th May 2007:

- Matthew Oldfield returned to the restaurant, having told Jane Tanner that the deponent stayed behind with Evie O'Brien because she was crying.
- The truth is that after the crying, the deponent had to change all the sheets and his daughter's clothing as she had vomited.
- His companion came to change places with him 15 minutes after and told him to go finish dinner.

From Russel’s rogatory on 10^th April 2008

After we had eaten the starters I needed to go to the toilet so Matt and I decided we would go and check on the children. We walked together I recall that the light was fading I went straight to 5D I could hear Evie was murmuring. I went into the apartment and Matt went into his. I went to the toilet to urinate and then started to clean up Evie and change her, Matt came into my apartment and asked if I needed any help. It was getting darker by this time. I said to go back and tell Jane that Evie was unwell.

I sat in the lounge and read to Evie Jane came back having eaten her meal. We stayed together in the apartment for around 5minutes. I went across to the Tapas restaurant this would have been around 21:45hours, Jane remained with Evie. The group joked about Jane having been to relieve me they were all in good humour.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

It makes me so angry. That poor daughter of Russell and Jane, not being well, being sick, and all on her own! No one there for her! Until superdad comes in and heroically cleans her up and changes her sheets.

If that is what really happened.

by russiandoll on 18.10.13 14:48

@sallypelt wrote:
@MoonGoddess wrote:AFTERTHOUGHT; couple the worried look of KM when MO insisted on doing the check, and his leaving with RO, with her running back to the Tapas saying "they've taken her"..... perhaps we know who she meant now ...

Oh what a tangled web..
I am convinced 99.99% that Kate didn't know that Madeleine had died until she did her check. Madeleine may have been very sick, for whatever reason, but I keep saying she wouldn't have been able to hold it together at the Tapas dinner knowing her daughter was dead, and then swing into acting on the discovery that she had been "abducted". Maybe this is why MO insisted that he do Kate's check. Kate also told the social worker that "a couple took her". Could this be Jane Tanner and Matt Oldfield?? And Jane Tanner didn't see bundleman for GM's benefit, but for her own?
The plot thickens

Interesting, but how was there time to move a body if Maddie was discovered this late on 3rd? I don't have a problem with the clash at Smith sighting time because if this was Gerry he was I believe carrying a sleeping girl of similar age to Maddie. Whoever had moved Maddie had how long to do it in this scenario if Maddie was alive before tapas meal?

Tangled web does not begin to describe it, does it , but too tangled and it will be implausible imo.